nobadsports
Years ago

Acceptable or not?

Scenario: a team mate (loose use of the word mate...) decks another with a solid elbow to the head, then walks out of training. Motive - only likely answer is he was getting beaten in D and has one hell of an anger management problem which has been festering since juniors. Coach does zip, matter not reported to board, agro player rewarded by playing 40 minutes in next game. No apology, no discipline to aggressor and he refused to talk to the coach when asked - was too busy, had to go...
Is this where we are going with sport? Seems like a reflection on the coach and his assistant and their immaturity as coaches not to deal with the matter. If that had been in any other sport, it would nearly have hit a tribunal.
This could be the 2007 makings of a club that is going to implode despite having some talent on board. Quality players being used out of position and overuse of players that are not delivering results nor the correct attitude.
Can't think that too many quality clubs would put up with that crap from a player and not hand out some discipline.

Topic #10786 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

What has Centrals done now?

Being serious, the coach should make sure this player understand what he has done and internally suspend this player until he has successfully completed an anger management course.

If the coach refused to address the issue, he is not officering a duty of care to the other players and should either be counselled or stood down until he can identify a sound knowledge of coaching.

Reply #125063 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Pretty ugly scenario. Player and coach should be ashamed...but doubt they are. I agree with ANON...anger management course should be enforced. Pathetic act.

Reply #125064 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What club??

Reply #125066 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

This happens all the time. Trainings get competitive, if ya want to playing in the long grass your gonna play with snakes young fella. It aint juniors no more. Keep it inhouse, coach should deal with it and everyone move on.

Reply #125069 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yea, rules and fair play are for sissies. This is basketball where we make up the rules as we go and
follow everything yankee. No one under 7ft 6in should be allowed to play, successful scragging is an art form, sportsmanship is the name of a sailing vessel and no one is clear on either the rules or how to interpret them.

Reply #125073 | Report this post


nobadsports  
Years ago

#125069 You are right - the coach should deal with it (which he failed to do because he didn't know how to deal with it) and yes it should be "in house" - and those "in the house" namely the club management / board should have been involved. But you are wrong - this does not "happen all the time" and being decked by a team mate off the ball has got nothing to do with "competitive trainings". This type of aggression would be assault out on the streets - I can't see it has a place in this great game and just brings the sport down.

Reply #125079 | Report this post


We are a soft bunch of people nowadays aren't we. Back in the day it would have been

"Welcome to seniors young buck"

If you didn't get up and give it back you would have been heckled. If you took it and continued to play with out whinging you would have been respected. Look at the AFL. Watch some old tapes and look at the tribunal. They used to get two weeks for knocking a guy out with a punch (interstate match SA vs Victoria)

My first training at senior (ABA) level I was pushed, bumped, decked, hacked, dunked over with out the call of foul from the defence. When I called a foul as I believed I had fouled I was heckled for being soft.

These young guys expect everything on a platter. Good on the guy that put you on your arse. Pitty it didn't make you tougher and you just came and whinged on this forum.

Reply #125084 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

did you have to walk 5 miles to training in the snow too?

Reply #125086 | Report this post


nobadsports  
Years ago

So many assumptions:
1. this is not the player who was decked.
2. both players involved have been around at this level for a many years now and know how to mix it.

Getting pushed, bumped, decked, hacked, dunked in a fair hard training goes with a strong competitive training but off the ball etc., is low.
#084 Your point is a good one and basically answers the scenario put forward with your good old days AFL comparison - "Watch some old tapes and look at the tribunal. They used to get two weeks for knocking a guy out with a punch (interstate match SA vs Victoria)" So on this basis, you would fully support that if a player decked his team mate, left him practically out cold and coughing up blood, that just like the tough footballers, he should be banned for two weeks. I agree with you.

Reply #125087 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I reckon your a living in the past 'wish i was playing now'. Don't like your attitude to the beautiful game of basketball at all. The greats use skill not physicality. You never go at your team mate. You'd never hear of a Brett Maher needing to resort to any form of violence, game does all the talking.

Reply #125090 | Report this post


Didn't (rumor from good source) Bogut break a team mates nose in college and then stand over him and barate him about not training hard enough

Reply #125092 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What about Jordan vs Steve Kerr at a training session one day. Kerr got a blood punched in the nose and shoved against the wall - wasnt the first time it happened either according Longley. Seen this happen plenty of times at ABL trainings. Get over it son. You are with the big boys now.

Reply #125093 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Was the training called off when the player walked out?

Sounds like the player needs to be dealt with as could lead to the team imploding.

But having said that, if it is who I think it is, the team had a big win in the next game and all hands were on deck at the next training (before the game).

Reply #125099 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I would encourage my son to even up the ledger. If this does not work I would be seeking out the farther of the team player involved and asking that the situation is "readdressed to our satisfaction".

Getting the kids to sort out the problem is the best way; however if this fails I have found that going direct to the "opposite farther" often works best, for me anyway.

I have had a negitive response from other farthers on some occasions, but the old "fight fire with fire" routine normally sorts things out quickly.

Reply #125101 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I believe this was a senior team, not a junior team, in which the parents dont really come into the equation.

Reply #125102 | Report this post


lockstock  
Years ago

baahahahahaaha #125086!

Reply #125103 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I dont think the main point here is the elbow, which does tend to happen at times if scrimmages get a little heated, but the fact that after the elbow the player just walked out of training is the bigger issue.

That itself must demand some sort of attention from the coach. It is easy to dismiss the elbow and say, well it happend, lets move on, but to disrupt an entire training session by walking out is ridiculous.

Reply #125105 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Tim Robinson - Centrals..?????

Reply #125106 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

forget all the advice everyone is giving. We want some names:)

Reply #125108 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Forget Centrals, well off the pace, unless there have been two identical incidents in a week.

Reply #125109 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Was it an under 10s training?

Reply #125119 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

In the main, second rate athletes play basketball and the biff and whacko stuff belongs or should belong to times past. Accidental contact is one thing and everyoe needs to be able to take it but deliberate stuff which is becoming more common is part, only a part of the reason kids dont flock to our sport and why parents influence kids to other areas.
Better to play footy which has no pretence of non contact and get belted as you might have the chance at big bucks than play a so called non contact sport that allows cheap shots as the norm.

Reply #125125 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

125125, you are thinking of junior and social basketball, not ABL. Anyone that thinks Senior basketball is non-contact especially at ABL/Div 2 level doesnt have a clue.

Reply #125129 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I heard it happened with the Pioneers in the past week!

Reply #125136 | Report this post


ouch  
Years ago

It is a joke to call basketball non-contact - never has been, never will be and as players that is accepted. I don't know of anyone at senior level that backs away from a training session or even a game where the intensity level is high and so they shouldn't, it fact these are some of the best training/game sessions. But seems to me that deliberate stuff off the ball is not in the spirit of the game / team sport. The lack of any accountability by the player concerned has made this coaching staff look a little unprofessional. What are their coaching credentials one wonders? And this is not an isolated incident, talking about this with some people, I have been told of another very similar situation in the past weeks and no doubt there are others over recent times. If the coaches can't control off the ball stuff, it makes it a little tough to expect the umps to if aggro boils over into a game.

Reply #125141 | Report this post


ouchtoo  
Years ago

#5136 Think you might be a little too far south east.

Also apologies to whoever else previously posted as ouch - did search after I wrote it.

Reply #125147 | Report this post


DICKO  
Years ago

Walk 5 miles?

When I was playing, we were only allocated one leg each. Walking was a luxury we just couldn't afford too much of.

Reply #125152 | Report this post


ouchtoo  
Years ago

Was it a wooden one with springs on the heel?

Reply #125153 | Report this post


ouchtoo  
Years ago

and did you train in pairs to get the best out of left hand and right hand moves..:-/

Reply #125154 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What does the the rule book say about contact? Every sport evovles but basketball is unrecognisable to the sport that the rules were written for. Fouls were for unfair contact and always were part of the game but dirty play is more evident than before.
Basketball is more like footy than at any time and heavy body work is expected but still illegal as are most of the screens, on and off, the ball and scragging and elbows some teams are infamous for. With ever evolving rules and a vast difference in the way of interpreting them, its not surprising umps are canned each week.
Basketball is now for skinny giants who can slap and tickle.

Reply #125158 | Report this post


Real Baller  
Years ago

we are talking about an off the ball incident that would be considered assault on the street..
everyone who plays basketbal knows it is a CONTACT sport....we all love it that way, but not this sort of off the ball violence..wish i play still and post (#125093)...You 2 are 2 of the biggest tossers to ever post on this site...you said "Get over it son. You are with the big boys now" ...what an asolute DICKHEAD....get off this site if u are going to write sh*t like that!
You really are my hero BIG BOY!!!
Real basketball doesnt need wankers like you!!!

Reply #125187 | Report this post


What an articulate piece of writing by Real Baller

My questions are:

Did the issue continue past the one elbow?

Did other players step in for you confront player in question?

If these answer no then get back up and give it back to them. Stop wasting your time posting/whinging on this forum and get back out there and show that you can take it.

Reply #125193 | Report this post


Panther  
Years ago

I heard the same thing about the Pioneers too.
Was apparently between two SA boys who used to compete against each other...unfortunately no boxscore on this game so I couldn't see if he played 40 minutes!

Reply #125211 | Report this post


Real Baller

Maybe we shoul ask the likes of Panther, Macdonald-Taylor, Hodges, Blight, Crothers to wear knee and elbow pads and ask the courts to belined by gymnastic floors.

Reply #125214 | Report this post


ouchtoo  
Years ago


You are an absolute tosser #5193 and thank god you don't play anymore cause I would guess that you used thuggery in place of any apparent skills. You sound like a disgruntled 'wanna be but never was quite'. Then maybe you are the person involved in this - is that why you are lamely justifying what reads as assault? It takes a lot more guts and intelligence for one not to lower themselves to your gutter street level. Seems that street behaviour is just a poor excuse for someone's inability to communicate on an intelligent level. But at least we all know how tough you are - so when you are out and about one day and someone gets a bit annoyed, without any more reason than they are having a bad day, with you and punches your lights out, good to know that you will bounce straight back up, even if you are seeing stars and bloodied, take it and not get all sooky and whingey to your mates (if you have any) at the next BBQ. Hey it could even be a badge of honor for you that you showed 'em!
Seriously, no reasonable person out there would find any off ball behaviour acceptable. Bumps, knocks etc all happen as we are training and in games but it is in the confines of the game and training - noone who seriously cares about any sport should condone such low tactics behind the "play". Seems to me that you have missed the point big time of fair play and sportsmanship but google it - there is plenty of information to get you up to speed.
Reading the posts, it isn't the person involved who has posted here anyway.
Seems to me that Real Baller has got a handle on the real issue.

Reply #125217 | Report this post


Panther  
Years ago

Sorry wish I was playing still, as a coach and a player a team mate is still your team mate and I have never condoned hitting a team mate. Maybe an elbow to the chest at the most, but one thing I don't agree on is elbowing a team mate to the head. Not to say i've never seen it happened, but you do have to remember people's, this is a very competitive sport and trainings do fall under this nature of the beast and players do still get fired up at trainings!

Reply #125220 | Report this post


ouchtoo  
Years ago

#5214 What has this comment got to do with an incident, besides your poor attempt to trivialise, that is not in the best interests of basketball - don't see on this thread from the original post onwards that players have an issue with tough games or training. The issue seems to be the behind the play dirty tactics to a team mate and no coach action. Not acceptable at any level of any sport.

Reply #125224 | Report this post


Hence why I asked those questions Panther and Ouchtoo. If nothing occurred after by team mates or by the player in question than he and they probably thought it was fair. If I went into a training and king hit another team mate surely the other players and coaches would get involved. They obviously didn't get involved and therefore thought it was fair game.

Will renig on one thing though, missed this part in first post.

"then walks out of training" - I was condoning tough play at Training and Games not king hitting someone then leaving training. This would be the same as walking into a milk bar and king hitting a granny because she got to the counter first then paying and walking out.

Now I know why my first few posts got heckled.

I take back this comment to
"Good on the guy that put you on your arse. Pitty it didn't make you tougher"

Will read the post fully next time.

Reply #125251 | Report this post


skyhooked  
Years ago

Isn't the real issue about control. So a team mate can't control himself off the ball in a training session. When can he control himself? So when things are tight and the games on the line, it must be reasurring for the rest of the team to be totally unsure when the loose cannon is going to explode. Lucky team mates, glad I never had a team mate like that.

Reply #125260 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

this action........
"decks another with a solid elbow to the head, then walks out of training...."

is nothing but a gutless, insipid, low life act of chicken shxt that no real man could ever be proud of. term MONGREL describes the puss filled, cancerous bed sore on teh ass end of the world that would do such a thing.

NO blow to any head at any time in sport, training or games is acceptable. Want to prove how tough or manly you are, do it upfront in the boxing or martial arts ring and face off, otherwise go suck rotten eggs and fester in a pool of vomit you slimeball who did that.

Coach was gutless not acting!

Reply #125261 | Report this post


chicken brain  
Years ago

Even my little chicken brain can see that this incident could have been and should still be addressed by the coaching staff and club personnel if they want to retain any credibility and to be taken seriously as a professional club.

Player:
1 Suspended for one to two games.
2 Has to undertake independent counselling before being allowed back in the team.
3 fined his weekly pmatch payment (if he is paid)

Coaching Staff:
1 Have to undertake counselling to get some idea of their duty of care, the responsbility they have to their supporters, the club, the sponsors and the professionalism needed to lead men
2 fined two weeks payments
3 put on notice that their jobs are on the line

Only with some affirmative action can this matter be put to rest and this great sport of basketball can show all sports that we are serious about dealing with intentional off the ball bad behaviour.

Reply #125281 | Report this post


ouchtoo  
Years ago

I'd add to that - the player should stand up like a man in front of the whole team and genuinely apologise for his low act to the whole team and also be put on notice that his position in the team is on the line.

Reply #125290 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The facts of the incident have to be correct before anyone can take action against the player.

Reply #125291 | Report this post


ouchtoo  
Years ago

#5291 - sure but if as written, it needs to be dealt with and put to rest and not ignored by the coaching staff or as previously stated, just when is this loose cannon going to fire again.

Reply #125297 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Totally unacceptable - but full circumstances need to be taken into account - Whichever CLub this is needs to address and investigate this issue now speaking to all concerned to get the full facts and act accordingly and yes reiterate Coaches Duty of Care to Coaches involved.

No-one on this thread knows if there had been ongoing issues between the 2 players involved - whether there was provocation be it physically or verbally,

Leave it to the Club to sort out and to the original poster if you have concerns that this has not bee fully investigated contact your Club and make the appropriate enquiries

Reply #125306 | Report this post


DB5  
Years ago

Was it Daniel Chick and Andrew Embley???

Reply #125310 | Report this post


ouchtoo  
Years ago

Probably tweedle dee and tweedle dum - but what does that really matter to us who it was. It would seem that the original post was more to do with the principle of the issue that needed to be aired. I for one have found this to be a good thread because it has shown that basketball followers for the most share a sense of what is fair and sportsmanlike and a degree of unity in what we can not let creep in to our game at any level, which is lowlife behaviour.

Reply #125320 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yes, it is a good thread as it does show what should happen if an incident such as the one mentioned did actually occur.

Reply #125326 | Report this post




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