glad u sooks wont be back !!!means my ears wont be ringing next year from all the howling u and your kids parents did

MELHOOPS - so you were complaining about playing a BETTER team? You would rather beat a Division 2 team at Easter than have a quality game against a Div 1 team who will be at Classics? Finals at Easter are surely secondary to the bigger picture, which for you should be as many quality games in the lead-up to Classics as possible. Sounds like your priorities might be a little mixed up. For the record, I am not condoning what Carlo did. Just think your attack above is way over the top.

No Problem playing better teams. Just like to know beforehand, put yourself in my shoes. I drive 800km thinking I'm coaching against a Div.2 team first up and then play against a strong Div.1 team playing under the wrong name, that we could have prepared for.

S&M, My priority when coaching 14/15 boys is teaching them what's right and wrong on the Basketball court and what happened on Friday was wrong. I owe it to my players and their parents to go in to bat for them.

Finals are not secondary - the good teams play in the and that's when we played Sturt, a good team and a fair one at that.

Anon #285, the real issue here is that someone did the wrong thing by us and it cost us an afternoon that had been planned two weeks prior, it drained our kids mentally and physically prior to playing Melbourne and Sturt which were already hard match ups for us. And as it seems has made us look like the bad guys in seeking justice.

GOOO THUNDERRR!!!

Just a thought.. how many of the Norwood teams that entered actually come out on top of their pool in Championship.. By the loks of things they cant even win by cheating??

KEILOR? THUNDER!!!!
what norwood team hosts a tordy, and cheats to beat a team? i think they where just that little shocked we shaked n baked those bizatchs in eltham?

stay at school pal if your english are as good as your basketball skills then u must be carrying the oranges!!!!!THUNDERS SOOKS

bad basketball skills.. Not to be slagging ya own team or anything because im pretty sure i dropped 18pts on you guys??? ahh yeh i sis to?

have a cry ur div 1. there div 1.
you should have been ready for it anyway who goes into a torney with out prep before it. ur just so stupid!

if you cheated you cheated. You obviously wanted to win so badly against a team thats already beaten you once u took the wimp way out of it. whata shame.

surely its a bit harsh to attack carlo over this. I may be wrong in this instance since its norwood who run the tourny, but in the tournys ive played in before the coach takes their team where they were told to play, im sure carlo didnt deliberatly have a meeting with the norwood 1 (div 2) team and decide to cheat, carlo is jus not that kind of guy. Other than that ive spoken to some quite frustrated norwood boys about this and trust me they feel just as cheated as you do so stop complaining and 'play the game'.

HI THUNDER IZ SO COOL

hey little sook next carnival your in bring the king size tissues you whiiny little cry baby. 18 pts against a div 2 team dang your ready for the nba chump

"cheats to beat a team"? I don't think so. It's not like Carlo had his boys rock up to the Norwood 2 game, and then back to join their own team afterwards. He simply tried to make his own team Norwood 2, and the other team Norwood 1. No cheating involved. Maybe a little misguided, but not worth the massive sook we are all having to put up with.
MELHOOPS - you stated yourself in your original post that you were looking forward to "first class games", yet the whole post is about your preference to beat Div 2 teams (with the all-important Easter finals at stake!) rather than test yourself against a quality Div 1 outfit. One big whinge if you ask me. Get over it.

now i know why the yarra stays so full, it's all u victorians crying about how your so hard done by when u come to s.a..... toughen up princess

WELL DONE KEILOR ON MAKING FINALS!!

By the looks of things, both the Norwood sides were involved in this shameful inncodent that occured over the weekend. If i am wrong there would have been the two Norwood sides rock up at the same stadium to play the same game. As for Carlo, he should be dealt with in a serious manner by the Norwood officals. Something as big as this should not go with out penalization. And Carlo obviously you have to cheat to win, well didn't help you to make finals did it. Did you have a nice early consolation game. Just remember where we were while you were coaching that game.

in the change rooms still wiping each others tears having a group hug

MELHOOPS, I'm always happy to have interstate guests (especially occasionals such as yourself) on the forum, but please get your kids under control - I have already deleted inappropriate remarks.

And Booga, don't drag things further off-topic!

Now come on Isaac, you know that is what booga does best ;)

Keilor obviously aren't interested in preparing for a major tournament like the Classics. If you did you should have been happy to play against a div 1 team. Carlo actually switched pools so that he could face the harder competition and get his guys prepared for the State Champs and the later Classics. Obviously Keilor seemed to be more focused on making finals of a tournament which doesn't really matter.

Melhoops: "My priority when coaching 14/15 boys is teaching them what's right and wrong on the Basketball court"

What a load of shit! Your priority is to make your boys the best players they can be and to get the most out of your team. Playing better teams can help to do this!

I'm not saying that it is right to switch teams but in my eyes it really isn't that big a deal at an Easter Carnival...a carnival designed to increase team bonding and to prepare for the Classics.

I think your (Melhoops) post and the behaviour of players and parents from Keilor was nothing more than pathetic. The parents should be ashamed of themselves for being involved in such a terrible display. If you guys want to teach what is right and wrong how about you start at home and teach your children to deal with complications in an appropriate way.

I can't wait to get over to Melbourne and support Carlo and his team when they play you guys. You know what Chopper would say: "Hey Keilor harden the fuck up!"

Hope these guys get matched up at Classics!

Changing the pools wasn't done to win, it was done for experience. Your pool had 3 top ranked melbourne teams and his initial pool had Sturt (a team that Norwood play on numerous occasions throughout the season) and 2 weaker teams. Carlo was looking for his players to be challenged. I know there was a switch but it was not for the reasons you are suggesting.

I played in tournaments like this throughout my many years as a junior. I know what is involved. I can appreciate the inconvenience and anger to a point but behaviour like that by parents and players is not acceptable. The cheat label is not correct either.

Burgertron, when you refer to bad behavior by players and parents, do you mean at the tournament or on this forum?

we have been to melbourne many times and the roles have been reversed - at the end of the day

you have to be good enough away from home and able to accept adversity and still play well.

could have been what the lightning had a couple of years ago - and had a car crash and theway to the game and still had to play

norwood 1 norwood 4 - it doesnt matter

however I do support some uniform titles ie

norwood 1 is their first and best squad etc

or should the teams be called -

norwood div 1
norwood div 2

norwood 3/4 combo etc

we had a great weekend and will be back

fush'n'chups

we have been to melbourne many times and the roles have been reversed - at the end of the day

you have to be good enough away from home and able to accept adversity and still play well.

could have been what the lightning had a couple of years ago - and had a car crash and theway to the game and still had to play

norwood 1 norwood 4 - it doesnt matter

however I do support some uniform titles ie

norwood 1 is their first and best squad etc

or should the teams be called -

norwood div 1
norwood div 2

norwood 3/4 combo etc

we had a great weekend and will be back

fush'n'chups

How undeniably pathetic of you mel to attempt to get the coach of these boys in 'trouble' . . . your explanations are weak at best.

The fact that you felt it necessary to post a large whining explanation obviously looking at the world through rose coloured glasses, sums up your level of brain power.

Thanks for your entertaining story.

Next taining session, invite your kids and their parents to training. Practice by taping their mouths shut and see how intelligent it can feel to not allow shit to leak from their mouths.

You all need to chill out! Stop with the abuse and understand that if Norwood as a club had penalised Carlo for his actions this post would never have been made. If Carlo was to go unpunished for this I wanted to let you all know our side of the story before we were labelled.

I'd like to clear some things up...........

The Norwood 2 team manager told me that this had been organised for two weeks, why not let Keilor know. We received a fixture with two Norwood 1's on it, one in each of Pool C & D. Could it be the tournament administrator's were in on this. Think about it the sheepish grin or the woman putting the scores up. The promptness of the vice president to organise a resolution.

In my eyes, Norwood thought the two pools were even and the objective was to play an unknowing Keilor team who had prepared to face Norwood 2. With this result they would have clashed with Sturt in the Quarter Final and avoided Melbourne. This was a well thought out premeditated attempt to cheat. Have a look at world sport at the moment and see the corruption that is taking place in world cricket, some of these Norwood kids are very talented and could one day find themselves playing nationally - Carlo needs to recognise that his role is about the development of these kids and if he behaves like this, parents won't want there kids playing for him and will be off to Sturt and he'll get the job he's always wanted, Coaching Norwood 2.

Melhoops here is a tissue for u because every post u have put up is cry cry cry. are u saying your boys need a full week to play a strong norwood team to get the win or is it u got out coached by carlo so now it is a issue of changing pools, sour grapes all round i think . the fact that if u hadn't posted this no one would of cared because all teams will have there focus on state champs and classics, i think u need to focus on your next game because honestly your a victorian so we( more i) couldn't care less about you

Melhoops is not the actual coach of this team. Poor form to mis represent yourself in my view.

Let me get this straight. Norwood claim to have wanted to switch pools so they could play the "tougher" Keilor & Melbourne as opposed to Darebin & Sturt, right?

Let's consider the following results over the weekend:

Norwood 1 (playing as Norwood 2) defeated Keilor by ~25 points in the game that wasn't a game.

Norwood 1 lost to Darebin by 12.

Melbourne (in the "tougher" group that Norwood wanted to play in) finished 3rd/4th & lost to eventual champion Dandenong by 20 in the semi.

Sturt (in the "weaker" group Norwood didn't want to play in) finished 2nd and lost the grand final to Dandenong by 15.

**Notes - Keilor are currently 3-1 in VC, Darebin (on the other side of the pool) are 2 wins, 1 draw, 1 loss**

So how much tougher was the pool that Norwood so desperately wanted to get in? Sturt and Melbourne are probably of a similarish standard, while Darebin proved to be a tougher match for the Flames over the weekend.

To pull those kind of stunts at your own tournament is certainly not going to be winning them any friends.

Polk High Football rules!!!

but seriously, Melhoops, this isn't as big a deal as you are making it out to be. Especially in regards to Norwood as a club being involved. I have a little inside information on this topic, and that is that the coach acted alone without the club's consent. Go after him all you like, but it's a little over the top to label all the parents and members of a club cheats because of one individual's actions.

I think everyone needs to take a step back and relax. No amount of arguing here is going to change anyone's mind on this subject, so why don't we all go and sit down, have a nice coffee, and watch some TV.

A popular forum retort, used all over the internet, applies very well here. With apologies to people, it goes something like this:
"Arguing with someone over the Internet is a lot like competing at the Special Olympics. You might end up winning, but you're still retarded."

And that's the truth.

(Mod: Removed. Unnecessary and inflammatory.)

Are you aware that Sturt U-14 girls in the 2006 Norwood Classic changed pools as well ????
Entered 2 teams then picked their favorite pool!!

I like that switch up there. Way to go trying to deflect attention because your not an ambi-turner

Yes, Carlo is lovely. A very well respected coach. Seems like there was a massive misunderstanding & Melhoops feels cheated, Not the same as Carlo cheating. He would NOT do that. I guess Melhoops is also in a position where his young team will learn about life and the game as they observe his reaction to what must have been an unexpected glitch to his game plan.

I'm a coach & referee representative from Port Pirie & coach at 4 carnivals per year in the cities of Port Augusta, Port Pirie, Whyalla & finish it off at the Country Championships in Adelaide.
This past season saw my u12 boys improve from 3rd at Port Augusta, 2nd in Port Pirie, & GF Winners in Whyalla, now in saying this we played against basically the same teams at each every carnival with the occasional exception, i.e Broken Hill played in Augusta & Whyalla.
Now as you can see the trend was improvement BUT at the Country Champs we are not in a safety zone, we are now coming up against Murray Bridge, Mount Gambier, Eastern Hills, Great Southern etc.
We have NEVER seen these guys play, we have NEVER seen these guys results during the year, therefore we can NEVER prepare??? to play against those teams..........
I've seen in the past team nominate 2 teams, 1 team as team 1 & one team as team 2 with that being a smoke screen of which team is actually the better one BUT WHO CARES? No matter what, in every single game you have to be prepared for the unexpected, you have to be prepared to change your game to combat what is coming at you!
My boys were down by 15 points at half time against Murray Bridge, a team I thought & my boys thought we could beat..... History shows we rallied, changed our defensive intensity, turned the game around into a 12 point victory over a a very fast & hard second half.

In a game of basketball you have 40 minutes, 4 major break opportunities to set your team up (start, 2nd qtr, 1/2 time, 3rd qtr), up to 5 of your own time outs & possibly 5 of the oppositions, in short PLENTY OF TIME to prepare ready to step back on the court & change the game!

What Norwood did could be seen as morally wrong & if they deliberately changed sheets just prior to the game then yes possibly cheating, but to lose the game & using the words of "We weren't Prepared" is kind of a cop out.
To be prepared for them would you have brought a different team?

To say he (Carlo) told no one is incorrect. His players were telling sturt kids the week before that they were the other norwood team and not in their group - now what do they say. They knew damn well what they were doing - 14/15 year old kids don't lie when it comes down to that sort of thing amongst their mates.

Once again it is the culture being taught this group. Thank god my kid does not play there.

PPBA-Thomas,

No I wouldn't have bought a different team but I probably would have watched the video I had in my bag at my hotel room from the first time we played them. Carlo had this opportunity - I did not.

On another note - You can't really believe that the preparation that goes into an U/12 SA country game could be comparable to an U/16 VC team's preparation.

A video ahhhhh..... Did you play them the night before? The week before? The month before?

Had their game changed that much that a time out or even a double time out within the first few minutes couldn't help your team couldn't close them down?

Or were YOU so worked up about the apparent cheating that your kids lost sight of what was in front of them - a game of basketball? That no matter what preparation is taken, if played to pros & cons any game is winnable until the final siren.....


I do agree regarding the preparation comparison between u12 SA Country game to a u16 VC team's preparation, would be completely different, but what I was trying to point out is that no matter how much preparation you put into a game if your team knows it's own game plans & can adapt to different opposition, your chance of victory is as good as any others.

I'm in no way sanctioning what they did as being right, I too have been in similar situations at local levels where you feel teams have nominated in grades lower than they should be in, but that first game aside, did you team enjoy themselves both on the court & off on their trip over here. Did they have the opportunity to play basketball at a very high level?

Don't look at this bad case of unsportsmanship as a reason to stay away, see it as a opportunity to come back stronger next year prepared for anything & attempt to win it all.


Mr Anonymous (? great name?) I wasn't boosting our ego, I was just pointing out no matter how far you are down there are ways to change the game & hopefully come out on top..... We made the GF & lost to a better team, down by 15 again at half time, we ended the game 22 points behind to Great Southern.

And even if I was boasting, it would be for the kids who played, because in my eyes they are the end reason of a win.

May I say after reading these posts, the tone, the mood and the misguidance of many suggests emotions are running high. I think most are missing the point here. I question the transparency of the host tournament organizers in this case.

From my understanding, the Norwood 1 coach believes he has the power to put his team in whichever pool he sees fit and for whatever reason he wants. We can go around in circles e but the fact remains the tournament organizers have let everyone associated in this tournament down.

As a Norward parent, I can say that the decision to swap the 2 teams was done prior to the tournament. For whatever reason, this does not excuse the fact that the host tournament organizer should not have allowed this to happen. It would suffice to say that the host organizer would have known about the switch prior to the game. If not, that would open up another 'can of worms' in regards to the whole Norwood administration  but lets not go there.

The point here is tournaments have rules and protocols. I can understand how it may appear to Keilor that there was a 'slide of hand' in this case. Certainly the Norward kids and parents had no part in this however, I was most embarrassed for the Keilor parents and players when the coach in question reappeared that evening and assisted in the coaching of the Norward 2 boys.

In a way, Keilor's justifiable complaint could have been avoidable if the tournament administration followed protocol or were transparent with the changes made. It would have been more embarrassing for the organizers if one of the other teams in Keilor's pool lodged a complaint after the 1st day of play  then what. Albeit, thanks Keilor for the sportsmanship you have shown in agreeing to reschedule our game that evening. Understandably, it was done with great inconvenience to your players and parents  as it was for us.

I am very disappointed as a host club parent for the terms of events.

Blame the organizers  not the teams.

The fact what I have done for this organization or tournament is irrelevant in this discussion. I'm not a policeman either and I don't make the rules. I just abide by them!!

All good points from Melhoops BUT: damn, if you don't have anything to do with it then is it really that bigger deal?

I'm sure the Norwood Carnival will go on. Its been going for since playing out of tinsheds like Athol Park and St Bernards. In the scheme of things I dont think this will really impact such a major tournament.

Carlo's a good, young coach. Im sure that if there are lessons to be learned he / the club will learn them and move on. The fact alone that he is putting his time into coaching should indicate he probably aint that "badder" guy and this says more about him than these actions (and his motives behind them) that he took.

DSD4711, are you really a parent from Norwood considering you spell it 'Norward'?

It seems that #127484 and #127688 in this topic http://www.hoops.com.au/sa/i.cfm/forumlist/10995/#128647 knew what was going on before the game in question!

Oops! Try this topic http://www.hoops.com.au/sa/i.cfm/forumlist/10995

Technically, Norwood did not cheat...they attempted to change pools, which did not happen in the end - no harm was done as they ended up playing in the pool which they were first assigned. So at no stage did they actually get to change pools which would have been classified as "cheating".

What Carlo did was wrong in the spirit of the game, and I'm sure he feels bad for it. But to label the Norwood Basketball Club as cheaters is unfair. Norwood puts on a terrific tournament year in and out and it takes months of preparation from many volunteers to get it up and running.

Please do not let the misguided actions of one coach tarnish the name of the entire club. If you let an incident like this cause you to not come back to the Easter Classic, then you are a very petty person and you will be missing out on a great experience for the kids - which is what the sport is all about.

SO!!! its ok for norwwod to do that is it booga but for an u12 girls team to play someone through lack of communication u jump down our clubs throat same old same old if its in ur favour ur all for it

MELHOOPS half the people on here r half wits so ur fighting a losing battle

i would like to say the upiring was different not bad but different from what most sa teams r u used to

looking forward to classics

Spadge, Why are you looking forward to Classics? Surely the mighty Magic will not make any of these grades?

spadge the half wits u mentioned are still a full wit ahead of u. are u looking forward to the classics because u are going fishing some where that weekend?????

melhoops, you say you would of prepared differently if you knew you were playing norwood?? i dont understand!! shouldnt you play the sport to win, know matter who your playing??
People like you are believed to be called "SORE LOSERS".
send me your address and il send you a box of tissues!!!!
go norwood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spot on #129041.
Why else would the game against the Norwood 2nds be scheduled if they didn't do anything wrong? Surely the arguement would have been that the Norwood 1sts were entered as Norwood 2 and that is final. Not to organise a totally different game to try and cover it up. Ordinary form by the Norwood club and coach to say the least.

MELHOOPS because you are a vic we all have this patriotic duty to bag you in a light hearted manner but I would say that some on here have gone a little over the top, they must have mistaken you for a queenslander.
I personally don't care about half the gripes in your first post but I do care (and I think that many posters do) that the spirit of the game and competition is all about fairness and transparency from those in positions of trust or responsibility. I have seen some blatant(?) cheating at Classics to ensure a Melb team won and we all have stories to tell across each border but none of that justifies it occurring or makes it acceptable.
Bottom line - it was wrong and the Norwood Club ultimately are responsible for the event that occurred and hopefully by now you have received a written apology from them to put this bed.

#128877

I have been reading and watching and laughing again. This shemozal would not have happened in our fair state.

With due respect to norwood (none) if forestville or sturt had been running this event this would not have happened. I seem to remember previous incidents that have occurred in the past with this particular group of norwood kids at younger age levels.

They deserved to finish where they finished. They have tarnished the spirit of the game.

We look forward to going to horsham next easter and playing our light blue and red and black cousins from your fair city. The motels are booked. The easter bunny has been instructed where to drop his eggs.

Perhaps the green and gold, red,black and yellow and the blue and gold from the east will be there to greet them.

Norwood carnival R I P

What the hell happened at this tournament ? Reading this I am chocking on my bananas and easter eggs.

We are talking about kids sport are we not.

Shame on you norwood, the spirit of the game and the values we try to instill in our youth have been questioned. That means you as a club (not a coach) have tarnished the reputation of our wonderful sport.

Shame - shame - shame

booga you are one of those half wits and u prove it time and time again your either for or against cheating its simple not for it when its good for you and against it when it happens to you norwood cheated and nothing was done but no one here is suprised that a club cheated in a carnival for thier club it just that i happen to a victorian so it seems to be ok you would be the first to cry if it was on the other shoe and yes i am looking forward to classics

spadge how did your club fair at the carnival as it would have bee the first time in club history u would of competed in any carnival with out cheating! in the past u have made finals by cheating even winning some so please up date us

No doubt Carlo must be a reasonable coach to have the responsibility of the Norwood 1 side. Maybe some free advice Carlo "Work on gaining respect from your peers...leave the magic tricks to other clowns!!" And further advice to the Norwood organizers ... a simple apology for the mistakes of others (Carlo) would have gone a lot further by the sounds of things and may have stopped a lot of this senseless banter on this site, rather than what appears to be 'lip service'payed to the Keilor side. Melhoops, I can understand your frustrations from what I read. Your thread has had its desired effect by informing everyone the tactics some people will use to gain advantages outside the boundaries of 'fair play' and 'spirit of the game'.

Let this be a lesson for all host teams and organizers. It's difficult to penalize a team for the actions of individuals, however, it does damage the credibility of those individuals. As hosts, the organizes have a duty to apologize or they too potentially tarnish their credibility.

In closing, a great tounament. Congratulations to both Dandenong and Sturt for an entertaining final.

we had 12 boys A grade and 14 girls A grade both missed out on a gf but played pretty good

how did ur club go which is it again woodville? norwood? or centrals? i cant remember you club slut

Good one Spadge well said, this Booga bloke needs a good punch in the fucken head.

your 14 girls missed out on gf by not winning a game!!!

spacejam..... most people know where to find me

Victorian, is it true? You wont be back?

I hope that goes for posting on this forum as well!

Booga, keep fighting the good fight, dont give up on the social club, keep on at em.

Spadge, the only comment you should be making about cheating is admitting that your social club has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar far to many times in the past.

wow, i love reading posts like this, as i have no bias or concern abotu protecting my club etc..

so, i shall give me thoughts..

Norwood CHEATED!

Norwood CHEATED!


Norwood CHEATED!

Doh!