Afroman
Years ago

Losing kids to other sports

Sturt U14 boys last year had a very sucessful season.
They won the Classics, Norwood Easter carnival, State Champs, Summer & Winter season, and finished 3rd in the Nationals.

3 of the starting 5 have left basketball, mainly to play footy.

For the Sturt bashers, this is good news, but for basketball in SA, this is very bad news.
I am sure that this is not only happening to Sturt, but to many other clubs as well.

Having read HoopSA for a while, there does not seem to be an easy fix answer to the solution.

Basketball does not hold much of a future for the majority of upcoming players. Football has a system in place that looks after the up and coming footballers.

Admittedly, if you make it very big in basketball, it far outweighs anything football can offer, but realistically, how many make it very big in basketball.
In SA, you can count them on your one hand.

I think the Football set up has 2 major advantages over the current setup with basketball:

Namely, Football does not go on all year round, giving the players a break from the pressure of a tough season.

Basketball just rolls from one season to another with not too many breaks

Secondly, there are far more places available for talented young sportsman in the SANFL & AFL.
This we cannot change

For basketball to grow in SA, we need to keep all the talented sportsman playing our game.

Burnout is a big factor involved in Boys changing over to other sports or just stopping at all.

All the relevant parties need to get together and work on this issue, and not be selfish, and each trying to get the most out of the boys, without taking the boys long term interest into consideration.

Anyone who does not have anything constructive to add to this discussion, please refrain from writing anything.

Topic #11625 | Report this topic


BIG baller  
Years ago

maybe make the main season for juniors in the summer because parents arent gonna limit thier kids o one sport and nor should they.

i know a lad that was dropped but his div 2 coach because he wants to play football as well as basketball and his coach said that he MIGHT get injured playing footy so he's not gonna waste his time with him.


very very very wrong no wonder kids are leaving the sport

Reply #135812 | Report this post


I think the obvious answer lies with crowd attendances. We might get 5-8 thousand at the dome every other week, while football is getting between 25-48 thousand at Footy park every week. That is a huge difference, not taking into account stadium running costs.

The sponsors then go for the maximum exposure they can achieve for their dollar; with the AFL being a near natinal competition (certainly shown in every state anyway)it attracts big companies with big dollars. That filters down all the way to the player who can make a very good living from the sport he loves.

Basketball at NBL & WNBL level does not seem to attract enough of these big companies so the money & the talent goes else where.

Try getting more bums on seats at NBL & local ABA, the rest will sort out it's self.

In between time be prepared for more talented young men to be lost to basketball. The AFL is hungry for athletes, basketball can supply them.

Now for girls.... where do you start?

Reply #135815 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Afroman,

It is the same in the other States also. I have coached kids who play until U/16 top age and then leave in pursuit of the AFL Dream.

Currently there are a few Basketballers in the TAC Cup competition in Victoria who have represented the State at Junior basketball and are working hard at being drafted. The chance of all of these boys being drafted is minimal, but they still leave to take a punt.

Many of them would still be able to represent the state and possibly higher if they stayed but the lure of an AFL jumper is just too great in our town.

I don't have the answer but I know back here , culture is a big part of it. We just have to keep helping the kids stay in the game for as lng as we can and manage their time so that they enjoy both sports until the decision to go one way or another comes along. The footy scouts do a great sell job on the boys and parents on the benefits of leaving Basketball to go the footy route, but I firmly beleive they can all still be doing both sports until 18's is over. Find out if they get drafted and not loose too much time away from our game.

Reply #135819 | Report this post


Dr Bullshit  
Years ago

Reasons:
1. Kids wanna emulate what they see on TV and when theres no basketball on TV...Footy is just more high profile
2. Cost of football is much less + games not on at stupid times.
3. Theres more chance of a career in football than basketball in south australia.

Reply #135820 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Do other states have 2 seasons per year?

Reply #135835 | Report this post


skink  
Years ago

i agree footy is marketed well cos it has the $ to back it.Im 25 and Ive played both. The social side of things especially while i was at school was very football oriantated. It is now $9 to play a social game, what a joke.I would rather shoot hoops but at what cost. pay fees for the season at my local footy club and thats it no more costs.(except for physio)

Reply #135836 | Report this post


Porky Duck  
Years ago

I really dont think having 2 seasons a year is why kids leave.

We could look at having a break that lasts another 2-3 weeks longer, but if you cut the summer season all together I am sure you will lose more kids than ever.

Reply #135837 | Report this post


some like it hot  
Years ago

Too much basketball , too many tournaments and not enough breaks from training.
Juniors rely on parents and their interest wanes when tournaments like easter occur with the classics and state all following in quick succession.
No career paths for girls and underated by everyone associated with basketball with the WNBL an appendage of the male sport.
Girls give up basketball for dozens of reasons but coaching style figures prominently as a reason. Coaches in basketball are stuck in the 60's swear and punish regime that proved so negative to male elite sportsmen.
Burn out , burnout and more burnout is a chief reason.
The multi stadiums we have instead of a central venue and alternative nights for juniors.
Netball survives with one practice a week but basketball has to have two or more depending on your level and it is the only sport that demands you keep other sports you play or want to play a top secret from your club and coach.
Basketball has an inferirity complex
which manifests itself when ever kids mention interests in other sports.
We lose out to other sports because we bind kids to a playing , training schedule that is designed to drain any affection for the game and leave no time for school or, God forbid, any other form of recreational activity.
Parents leave and kids follow and wise men applaud the losers going rather than seek answers to why they left.
Less basketball, one season or a better mix of seasons and less carnivals or more selective choices of them would be to the betterment of our sport.

Reply #135839 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The main reason is burnout. Kids train far too much. With Sasi, state and club trainings kids can have up to 6 or 7 days a week of basketball. As well as doing weights, and not to mention school basketball. This is far to much for 14-18 year old kids, no other team sport would demand so much time, especially all year around. That is another problem that basketball is one of the few sports that doesnt have a offseason. Need time away to miss the sport and get motivated for the next season. It just never stops!

Reply #135850 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Footy wins because if you get drafted that kid who is 18 gets an automatic 40,000 in the bank account. Where as in basketball a bare minimum is getting that it is very rare so it goes back to having tv-rights which leads to big sponsors to the league. Most basketballers begin their pro career at the age of around 21 according to the US system so while true ballers are waiting 3 years to get good pay which always isnt definet the kid that gets drafted already has 3 years of big payments by his side.

Reply #135859 | Report this post


Moonshine  
Years ago

A football team can cater for 22 players. A basketball team can cater for 8 or 9... This leads to more opportunities in better teams and therefore more opportunities to be better coached etc. in footy.

Reply #135860 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

There is also the key point that second string athletes play basketball!

Reply #135868 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think it's the other way round. If you can't make it in basketball just go play footy. A kid grown up on a diet of basketball is far more co-ordinated, has better spatial awareness and anticipation skills than a football only child. It's not a two way street.

Reply #135934 | Report this post


Rob Shearwood  
Years ago

I am the father of 1 of those 3 sturt kids that left to play footy and may I say that the U/16 Sturt coaches were very flexible with the attitude towards footballers. At the end of the day what happens is a kids passion comes to the for.

There are only so many hours in the day and unfortunately decisions have to be made.

Bball could adopt the footy culture and that would solve a few of the deep seated obvious problems of no breaks etc. The only criticism that could justifiably be made is that the people that control the game have to realise that not every kid wants to go to the Institute or play for Australia. Once we accept that and then make decisions with a clear and different perspective you will start to see a different outcome emerge in regards to this never ending topic.

Footy actually encourage kids to play bball because it is good for skills etc and aerobic fitness.

It can be human nature for a coach regardless of club to put more time into a player with no other sporting interests as the perception is that the multi talented kids are not as committed -that certainly is not true.

The pathway to an AFL or SANFL career is spelt out to these kids at 12 years old and the encouragement and opportunities then presented to the talented kids is unbelievable.

I know my lad has made many friends and had a fabulous time playing bball and he has pondered on what he should do for at least 6 months and at the end of the day regardless of what parents want the kids go with their hearts.

All we should do as parents is be greatful they have played the game and encourage them all to do what THEY want and follow their dreams. You never know, they may succeed.

Next time you are at a kids bball, volleyball or footy game look at kids and say could they play either sport and you may begin to realise that an attitude change may bring more kids to our great game of bball. Then and only then will it improve.

Reply #136023 | Report this post


Dr Bullshit  
Years ago

I swear its the fact that once you reach 16/17 you dont want to be playing games on a friday night. You've just finished a hard week at school, often year 12...or even uni for under 20 players and you'd much rather hit the town or go out with mates. I dont know how fesable it is to make games on a saturday but i cant see any reason you would continue giving under 18s and 20s 9:45 games on a friday night.

Reply #136028 | Report this post


scoop 57  
Years ago

And what about the girls!!If you are Div 3 or under forget about coaching, especially in an elite club that prides itself on junior development. Do not complain or your daughters will suffer even if they give 100% and are club committed. Turn up to compulsory training and find no coach....
No wonder girls will seek other sports or more of a concern none at all.
Where have the strong female role models in this sport gone...how archaic that there is still the perception that the males in basketball should rate superior to females. Clubs should be ashamed of themselves.Where are the policies on equality.
One female coach when asked about this in relation to a junior girls team stated "they are only young, and only in Div 3 - Div 1 and Div 2 only rate". Point is that these girls do matter and they really enjoy their basketball.( Club fees are the same for all Divisions)This female coach should be out there supporting these girls not undermining them
Why do clubs not encourage coaching at the lower level,which are the very group that need the junior development. Perhaps coaches should be placed on a retainer, and given coaching packages ( white boards, passes, coach shirt, acess to coach training programs, performance development process) at the beginning, even during the season. This would make them more accountable as an effective coach and role model rather than behaving badly as a volunteer.

Reply #136067 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

scoop, if you could keep the been-burnt-before element out of things, you might have the making of an interesting, separate topic there. How to improve and maintain the quality of coaches in lower divisions.

Reply #136074 | Report this post


Div 1 coach  
Years ago

Scoop, Perhaps your Division one coach needs to pull their finger out and show some interest?

Reply #136103 | Report this post


nasty pasty  
Years ago

scoop, finding coaches is the hardest thing for every club to do.
The bigger clubs find it almost impossible to supply coaches for the lower teams and inevitably mums and dads step in to fill the void.
Though not said out loud Div 3 and beyond is not considered district and the majority of elite players come from the 1/2 ranks with only the slower developing boys ever having visited the 3's and 4's. For that reason the emphasis is on the higher divisions.
Gaps in ability would mitigate against mixed trainings as the skill level would retard the higher divisions so unfortunately Div 3 and beyond miss out on the best coaching.
However several clubs run skill clinics and other activities where lower divs can help get their ball skills up. They are not well patronised by the lower divs though.
Some kids go to lower rated clubs where they can play higher which is both good and bad. Those who can cut it enjoy it but occassionally the gap is to much and the move backfires. I'd look around , go to some trainings get a feel for the higher divs and talk to the coach at the new club to get some feedback on your kids chances of success playing higher if offered.
Every Div 1 coach though is well aware of the kids ability across the divisions in his or her age group and they should be your first port of call before you decide to do anything. Ask for their advice and discuss it but make sure your child wants to move and wants to play higher before you do anything at all.

Reply #136123 | Report this post


SNAG  
Years ago

Some like it hot - "Coaches in basketball are stuck in the 60's swear and punish regime that proved so negative to male elite sportsmen."

Couldnt have put it better myself - not all but a lot are stuck in this mentatlity especially if their coaching "BOYS"

I dont think swear and punish gets them anywhere - they would be lucky if one kid in a team actually thrives in this environment.

I actually dont know of too many footy coaches that use this mentality any more either. Coaches get with the programme and tune into your SNAG side. You may find it works better than, screaming and swearing at the kids. And that IS what they are kids.........

Reply #136152 | Report this post


scoop 57  
Years ago

Clubs such as Forestville, Sturt and North Adelaide ( as examples only) have enormous depth.In Under 14 girls it would not be uncommon for upto six team to be fielded.With such depth it is highly likely that there are very talented girls in Div 3 who will always struggle to get into Div 1/2 and will therefore not be offered skilled coaching orjunior development programs.It is also unlikely that any Div 1 coach would be aware of this underlying talent unless their own coaches ( if they have one) bring it to their attention.
To cross to another club, where there is less depth, is a consideration, but the loss of friendships and networks has to be considered. There is no easy answer
but the potential loss of these kids to another sport ie netball is of a concern. If these kids in the lower divisions were valued then there probably would be less migration and more loyality to their club of choice.

Reply #136333 | Report this post


sports lover  
Years ago

Your sport will continue to lose kids to soccer, footy and other sport for one very simple reason. The coaches in your code care only for themselves from what I have seen in my childs 6 month involvement.
It is all about the coach winning and not developing the talent. From what I see if your kid is only half talented they have no chance.
Clubs that win all the time hide the true problems that bubble along under the surface - I think we are starting to see an increase in quality kids leaving the sport because they no longer wish to be a slave to these characters and choose to have a mind of their own. This is probably due to the culture that has infested the game (from what I hear by reading this site etc) over the past years.
It is a pity because the kids in lower grades seem to enjoy the game despite the obvious lack of opportunities provided to some kids and the obvious over abundance provided to others.

Reply #136454 | Report this post


Porky Duck  
Years ago

I am sure you could do a search of this site and go quite a few years back and read that Bball is loosing heaps of kids to Netball, soccer and football. One kid leaves, one kid begins. It has been happening for years, it will continue to happen for many more.

One thing I would like to point out about soccer is that it is a very easy game for new kids to the sport to take up; however soccer encounter the exact same drop out rate among juniors from 16's on wards that we do. If you don't think that other sports have coaches out there coaching for themselves, not the kids, then you are fooling yourself.

As a parent who has had children playing soccer, football, netball & bball it has been our experiance that netball & bball have the most comradere amongst team members, hands down. Our experiance with football & soccer was that as soon as the games had finished parents could not get away from the ovals or pitches quick enough. This has not been our experience with the two "court" sports.

Reply #136471 | Report this post


fox21  
Years ago

we have had children playing in divs 1,2 and 3 at Norwood over several years. One continues to play. the other loved it for the time they were involved and has made life long friends. A different sport was attractive, so they left with a whole lot of valuable skills taught formally and informally by people very passionate about their basketball. All coaches have been outstanding in their committment. Sometimes we were taken aback by the "culture", but the underlying spirit has always been about helping kids find the best in themselves as part of a team. Certainly, the higher divisions are not for the faint hearted. That's what other forms of basketball are for. If the ones who leave look back at basketball fondly. That's a good outcome.

Reply #136609 | Report this post


I think one of the problems is the coaches. Many Coaches see themselves as competitors with each other off the court and will do anything to win. This is often reflected in their attitude to the kids and their coaching style. This does not make sense. Its kids sport. Surely it is about the development of the kids and coaches at all clubs need to ensure their kids are competitive on the court BUT these same coaches need to work together off the court.

There is a false perception that the coaching player's receive will be so much better from one program to another. Coaches, in their misguided arrogance, think they need to contact kids to tell them. This is not professional sport and the differences in most clubs at Div 1 level is not worth "selling", to kids and forcing them to drive 2 hours to get to trainings and leave their friends!

I'm amazed by the one upmanship of coaches believing they can ALWAYS guarantee their program will deliver more success for a player than another. Ocassionally players may blossom in a new club but with my recent experience with a player been poached suggests this: LETS WORK TOGETHER. LETS COMMUNICATE OFF THE COURT!

Reply #136647 | Report this post


Leaving  
Years ago

My kid, 9 yr old, got chewed out today by the Coach for not sticking on the player. Fair enough comment I suppose from Coaches point of view .....kid got upset because is not playing B/Ball except to be involved in a team sport and supposedly have fun......- comment in car on the way home. Why is it about winning......My comment - I really dont know - kid wont be playing next season too much pressure to win at all costs - what a sad reality!

Reply #136863 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Leaving,
Competitive sport is about winning not fun and school sport /church and social all accommodate the 'fun' games element.
District is or should be about the better skilled playing highly competitive sport but that said, I'm surprised that at U10's a coach would pay out a child too much.
I'm sorry you are leaving but you have a lot of options

Reply #136868 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I have a son that left basketball to go to 2 other sports. He has now tuned it down to one and football was the winner. The football club he is with really looks atfer him, they give them food after training, they give them the full uniform the only thing the kids have to provide is their boots. They don't have any club fees or fees to play. After paying a fortune for basketball I couldn't be happier. I had to pay for all the trips to the classics and carnivals etc. Now I don't have to pay anything at all. Everything is paid for..
I am pleased with his choice and he is very happy as they do look after the kids. If nothing comes of it he can always go back to his other sport. But basketball is now just a fun school sport. Basketball helped him with his football, the only thing that we did wrong was not try fotball sooner..As for the rest what rest with football, they have 6 weeks off after the season and then pre season starts, no time for any other sport..

Reply #137827 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

Speak to the powers that be that run other sporting codes in this state and they do not see basketball or soccer for that matter as a threat to mainstream sports like footy. In fact they see them as feeder programs knowing full well that kids become disenchanted with what is commanded and they know at worst they will end up with a 16 year old kid with great hand / eye / foot skills ready to be developed for footy.

Basketballs problem is really simple and it stares everyone in the face - it is that obvious -there is no end product.

If you dont play ABA (and most don't) there are no local Adult comps of any standard. You can play socially with your mates at a local stadium but there are no leagues of any substance as there is with footy. Its a kids game that runs its course for 95% of participants by the end of under 18's.

If you ran a business like that what would happen ? Exactly what happened last year with BASA and it will happen again with the new crowd running it.

Get some new blood running the game for the games sake before it is too late - pretty simple really.

Reply #137830 | Report this post


#830
I'd like to argue with you but I can't. A minor sport like basketball needs stronger directions to succeed and while football is an option for boys and netball for girls, in post junior stages there needs to be a concerted effort put into the drop offs at U20/21 before the existing premature end drops to the U14's.

Reply #137882 | Report this post


Right on  
Years ago

830, you hit it on the head perfectly. Once kids get to U18s they see that they are not going to play NBL they begin to wonder what the point is of investing 4-5 trainings a week into an 'elite' level sport. Basketball teams are smaller than football and other than ABL there is no decent competitions around for kids. Think of ABL as SANFL footy. There needs to be a SAAFL type competition for those that want it. IE in between 'Social' and district. These teams shouldnt be affiliated with district clubs either. The closest to what I am talking about is UNi basketball clubs. There needs to be more of these outside in a competition in their own right.

Reply #137883 | Report this post




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