Give us a hint... what happened?

LMAO Liam - we must have both rushed onto the our PC's at the same time.

If anyone has ESPN.....YOU MUST WATCH THE REPLAY TONIGHT of Detroit and Indiana

So here is my attempt at trying to explain it.

Ron Artest fouls Ben Wallace after a lay up attempt with 30 seconds left in the game and the Pacers already ahead by 15 points...a huge away win for them. Ben Wallace takes offence to this and pushes Artest in the throat with two hands and then trys to continue on with the fight while being restrained by team mates and coaches. The benches clear, both teams talk about each others Mum's..yadda yadda
This scene was bad enough and would have hit the news anyway.

But what happens next was UNBELIEVABLE!! While the teams are just starting to look like dispersing, Ron Artest gets hit with a bottle of beer from a fan while LYING DOWN ON THE SCORETABLE! Artest climbs over about four rows of chairs to get this guy and gets one good hit in, before the fan's mates intervene. Then Stephen Jackson, Artests's teammate, comes over the top and punches another fan. Both teams stream into the stands! Fans and players are wresling...fans are also punching players from behind (Freddy JOnes gets beaten up by some bloke weighing close to 140kgs!).

Fans are also coming onto the Pacers team bench area to get at players. Eventually, the very undermanned security staff with the help of some very big 'ex player' assistant coaches drag the Pacers off the court. As Jemaine O'Neal comes off he is drenched with beer and tries to get at a few fans on his way down the race but is restrained.

You have to see it to believe it!

Sounds like a bit of a disturbance.

I remember seeing, on TV, scenes of a brawl at a basketball game. One of the players was kind of standing on the basketball ring itself, though I have no idea how he got up there. Anyone else remember that? Would've been at least 10 years ago.

This was easily the most disturbing basketball moment I have ever seen. The only thing that would be even remotely be close was that clip of an american import in a European game punching the ref unconscious. The player was suspended for a couple of years for it. The referree sustained some pretty nasty injuries from it.

Yeh, I have that import-bashing-ref moment on video.

Artest vs Pistons was always going to be trouble anyway!

Actully looked like Artest got hit with a plastic cup of beer. They dont serve bottles at NBA games. I'd be pissed if I was him, but I cant beleive he would jump in to the crowd like that.

He got hit from behind to the side of the head atleast twice by some guy as well, then got his jersy ripped. I actually thought Stephen jackson was more disturbing to watch in that crowd, he was throwing punches and kicking like crazy!

What next for Artest I wonder.......

That was a goddam disgrace! I was watching the game with my brother and Artest did not start it and his reaction to the fan throwing beer on him was understandable and he should NOT be penalised for it. Who should be is Ben Wallace (for starting the whole thing), Stephen Jackson (I've never been a fan of the third guy into a fight), and the officals for not getting Wallace off of the court IMMEDIATELY after he was ejected.

Detroit's fans are a disgrace. Indiana should not have to play there again this year, any subsequent games should be moved or forfieted in Indiana's favour, and I personally think that ALL of Detroit's home games for the remainder of 2004 should be moved out of the city as punishment for their moron fans' behaviour.

scarey indeed
i was at the glasshouse at the 1997 worlds when after the turkish game the crowds streamed onto the court area. the security was inadequate to stop anything like that totally out numbered and at that time the crowd was just happy and dispersed easily (nicking quite a few basketballs along the way).
when turkey played yugoslavia such friendly neighbours the police and security were ready and there still was a riot. flares going off,players being spat on coins being thrown on court. full bottles of water being thrown at players. the stadium manager had his leg broken and the front glass at the melb tennis centre was broken. it was surreal to see it happen especially in australia.

they are probably lucky here that the entire crowd didn't get involved or it would not have been stopped it will be interesting to see the fines and the fall out.

oops the last sentance was in reference to the nba

i couldnt believe ben wallaces reaction to the foul in the first place, it didnt seem worthy of a reaction at all let alone the way he carried on... it was good to see rasheed do his best to diffuse the situation, the amount of stuff that was thrown at the indiana players was crazy and the cheapshots that sum fans were giving them was disgraceful. Greg anthony made a good comment that those same fans would run away in a one on one situation.

Brawl video (8 MB)

Copy and paste that link into your browser... video footage of the fight ;) The file is just under 8meg.

Here's a pretty good article on the fight.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ratto_ray&id=1927360

That was crazy.

Hope Detroit have deep pockets for the upcoming fines for the inadequate security.

Wallace and Jackson could have very well ended their professional careers with those stupid moves.

I thought Artest was pretty cool, if not maybe playing it up a bit by lying on the bench...but he was trying to stay out of it all. As soon as Wallace pushed him he was trying to back off.

can someone tell me wen the replay is. i saw bits of this inciddend on espn but was goin out. i didnt even see the game but what im wondering why the fans got involved.

I'm a Pacers fan so I was watching the live score and listening to a live chat at the time the game was on, when the fight started it was messed up to hear the descriptions of it going on. I hope that Ron, JO and Jax dont get hefty suspensions =\

I've got another video here:
Brawl video 2 (~47MB)

The last bit of the ESPN analysis describes the Pistons fans as 'a bunch of punks', which i think is spot on.

Statement from David Stern - Artest, Jackson, O'Neal and Ben Wallace all suspended indefinately until the outcome of an investigation which expected to be finalised by tomorrow night.

That sucks....Artest definitely doesnt deserve it...he tried to keep cool until he was et on by the rabid fan.

I didn't see O Neal really get involved until the end when they were pouring beer and everythng over him...I might have missed him in the melee because I kept waiting for Artest to go off, and was more concentratng on him.

Wallace deserves at least a rest of season holiday, guilty of striking for the original 2 handed push into Artest's throat, and Jackson should be ringing Vince McMahon, coz he will be needing a new job.

JO decked a fan that was on court, but other than that i dont think he was significantly involved in the crowd. I dont agree that Ron and SJax should have gone into the crowd, but the whole thing was incited by Detroit punks, on the court and in the stands. The Pacers are now without their 3 best players for an indefinate period of time.

I just downloaded and watched a high-res version of the whole incident; here's my call:

Fine the Pistons for poor security. Give life bans to the fans in there throwing punches (one of them was laying into Jones #20 pretty solidly!) and potentially charge them with something. Give 2-year bans to those throwing drinks. Big fine and suspension to Ben Wallace for his ridiculous reaction to what was just a hard foul from Artest, and for further inciting the matter.

Artest has bad history, yes, but his foul wasn't that bad, and he backed away from Wallace immediately.

The Pistons fans were utterly disgraceful in pouring and throwing drinks over the Pacers as they left through the player race.

Obviously it's important that players don't get into the stands, but I do feel for Jackson, Artest and O'Neal who were definitely provoked and only trying to defend one of their own. Also, given that Wallace started it, continued it, and then a Pistons fan restarted it, it's unfortunate that the Pacers have copped the three suspensions.

To the fans who got hit, you deserved it.

Right now, the Pacers (playing without 4 starters!) are 2 points down to Orlando with 13 seconds to play. Fred Jones has responded to being repeatedly punched by fans to have 28 points. The Pacers have only played 6 players all game, compared to Orlando's 10-man rotation!

Grant Hill nails 2/2 FT (26 pts) to give Orlando a 84-81 lead. Jones hits a 3 to leave the Pacers down by 1. Orlando time-out with 7 seconds left.

Come on Pacers!

Damn. Hill goes to the line again, hits both (luckily he's in my fantasy team: 28, 7 and 6; although I think he's in everyone's team!). Jones misses his last attempt to tie it on the buzzer. Orlando 86, Indiana 83.

I'd hate to be the Pistons next time they play in Indiana...

does any1 know where i can get a video of this as those links above do not work

This isn't the first time Ron Artest has cut sick at fans/ players or coaches. He has been suspended and severly fined after fighting with own coach and opposition coach. Throwing a stats computer. Fighting with fans. The list goes on.
Yet he is still one of the best players in the league. His defence is crazy? Why so crazy then?

Isaac - are you able to post the video you watched as none of the above links seem to be working.

Also while I agree that Artest was severely provoked there is NO justification in a player climbing into the crowd and getting involved with fans. No matter how severe the provocation the players have to be able to turn the other cheek - in times like this it doesnt seem fair on them but that is the way it has to be. Unfortunately for Pacers fans their team will bear the brunt of David Stern on thsi one and there are a few players who will be in the stands for a long time. Oh well at least Artest will have the time he wants to promote his rap album!

So what happens if Artest and Wallace both get short suspensions, come back, play well...well enough to be voted to the same All Star team...hehe

That would be funny to watch!

Apparently the NBA is looking at suspending Artest for 30 games, O'Neal & Jackson for 20 each and of course, the guy who starts everything.... 5!

Let's hope that's not the case and the NBA comes to its senses and suspends Wallace for far longer than that.

Interesting to note that Artest had apparently requested a 'leave of absence' from the Pacers recently to spend time with his family and also help promote his upcoming CD release..... maybe he'll get his wish, courtesy of the NBA.

Try here.

They've taken down the large version that I downloaded which was the full incident, with replays, and high res.

Wallace shouldn't be suspended for more than 2 games. That is what he normally would have been given for reacting the way he did to Artest's foul. He deserves to be suspended, but in reality players over-react in those kinds of situations fairly often. A number of players would be suspended every year for that kind of thing.

In no day did Ben Wallace start the all out brawl. The only reason he would be to blame is that if he didn't react like that then Artest never would have in the place he was when something was thrown at him. (Does that make any sense?)

Wallace didn't start that madness, the fan who threw the bottle at Artest started it and all hell just broke loose afterwards. It's not Ben Wallace's fault that the fan threw the bottle, or that Artest went into the stands, or that Stephen Jackson also went into the stands not to try and get Artest out but start in on it himself.

Exactly!

Artest gets his desired holiday...

72 games!

http://foxsports.news.com.au/story/0,8659,11460433-23210,00.html

Jirachi, Ryan and Yogee,

On what planet do you guys live. How does their behaviour not deserev punishment. And I'm not talking about games suspended. I mean that they should be charged with assault and thrown in jail. Have we not learnt anything from the David Hookes case.

Jirachi

What I would expect is that ROn Artest show's enough manhood to not climb intot eh stands and hit a guy who was an innocent bystander.

Ryan

How is his behaviour understandable. When does getting hit by a projectile allow you to beat some bystander sensless.

Yogee

Assault doesn't deserve to go punished. He hit an innocent guy just standing in the area from where the bottle came.

What needs to happen is the Wallace gets a couple of games for his push/hit on Artest. Detriot get fined for allowing it to get out of control. Then the league should make them play infront of no crowd for the next 5 games, and blame the fans who started it. Send a message to fans across the league.

The Pistons should forfeit the game. Then do every thing that they can to find out which fans were on the court and charge them with everything from assault to provoking a riot. Ban them for life and sue them for all they can.

But Artest, Jackson and O'Neal should be sacked for bringing the game into disripute. The NBA should sue them for loss of earnings and make sure that no club ever offers them a contract. They should also be charged with assault and jailed.

Then when the NBA has their collective bargening agreement with the players association over summer they should screw them for all they can. Decrease contract leangths. Decrease max salaries. And put into place a dismissal rule.

The NBA is fast becoming a complete joke....

phadreus I totally agree

I think that the punishment for O'Neal is pretty harsh. He encountered a hostile fan on the court and had every right to assume that the fan could be carrying a weapon. The fan wasn't there for an autograph... Remember Monica Seles?

You can pay those guys millions and millions but they're still animals with instincts. In an emotive rush, they'll still defend one of their own and they'll still react to physical provocation.

Without a couple of original starters and with three starters fouling out, the Pistons were just pushed to double OT by the Bobcats. 117-116.

Detroit will have to face the brunt of lawsuits from fans alleging security didn't protect them, etc.

Article about it here.


"There were a lot of poor decisions made in the heat of battle." Scot Pollard, Pacers.

Artest should not have reacted the way he did. It was a plastic cup! You cant beat the crap out of someone for a plastic cup!

Once it escalated blame is hard to place. Stephen Jackson lost the plot, so did Jermaine.

Did not expect such hefty suspensions though.

Hope no-one bet on the Pacers for the title!!!

The NBA has no role to play in disciplining the players.

This is a criminal / civil matter. To suspend a player like Ben Wallace for 30 games is ridiculous. What does that cost him - $5-6 Mill US???

If anything the NBA should be apologising to the players for not providing them with adequate security and let the courts sort out the rest.

We all try to be nice guys. BUT I dont care ABL, div 2 game while im at work (where while I dont earn NBA salary it is a professional environment) or even if I was in federal parliament if someone pelts me or a team mate or collegue with a bottle or something like that you can bet I am coming after them. Thats just my and most peoples nature. Makes no difference how much money I earn and I am sure people from any walks of life would think the same.

This incident is bigger than the NBA league. To automatically suspend these players at around the peak of their career and earnings capacity just does not fit the crime.

Jirachi "NO NBA in OCtober 2005" is a big call but you may well be right, it will be interesting to see if your statement comes to fruition.

BTW: When does Miami play the Lakers?

if someone threw something at you in a workplace and you went and belted them i think under most current workplace agreements you'd be sacked.

that often results in instant dismissal in most organisations.

Good point but:

1. Not in this workplace! haha
2. This example is to put it into a real world perspective. I was talking in terms of someone coming in off the street and throwing something at me or a colleague. This would then become a legal issue.
3. This was not teammates fighting each other. Which would be an internal issue.

Workplace and others, if someone (a complete stranger) came into your workplace and started pelting you or a work collegue with bottles of Coke, how would you react? Would your salary have any impact on your level of professionalism in this incident. Would you expect to be sacked, OR possibly go to court? I think this kind of comparison puts the incident in perspective.

but they were at work. comeon guys they are paid professionals, who's simply not playing a sport but providing an entertainment. in no way do i condone what happened by the fans nor the players but it did happen.

english soccer players were subject to racist taunts they stayed and played. cricketers have been pelted with rocks, cans, etc and left the field not jumped into the crowd.

it should have stayed on court and allowed the security or there lack of to control the crowd criminal charges should have been laid on the spectators or action against them but these guys are being paid to play and paid very big money sometimes just to sit and look pretty on the bench - no the money doesn't make it right for people to throw things at them but - but as sportspeople they are subject to verbal abuse sometimes from their own fans it would be mayhem if this happened everytime

The crowd at cricket games isn't situation directly behind the action -- it's a lot more spread out.

Plus, cricket players generally aren't 6'10" and 250lbs!

Read blogmaverick.com for Mark Cuban's look at a positive aspect of the incident, and probably the only thing he could say without getting fined. Again.

mmmm but if you started something at the cricket you risked having Merv Hughes put his tongue in your ear!

cricket though has 80000 something fans - and like have you seen the crowds in india and the west indies those guys are so pumped with their singing and their dancing in some places they put fencing to separate them from the playing field.

players on b/ball court trying to escape 10000 -20000 fans or cricketers trying to escape 80000 fans......either ain't pretty but i know which one i'd prefer (neither)