The Players Association apparently will be appealing the suspensions today.

I think this will just drive the Players Association & NBA Commission further apart, and lead to a lockout (which looked imminent anyhow).

That little ref should be a grecko roman wrestler.

This is gonna get real ugly, real quick.

This shit is crazy, it was out of control and all parties should be punished for it's involvement. I think Artest and Wallace were the most severely or incorrectly punished. Jackson and O'neal squared two spectators up and nailed them good and proper as did Artest why the difference in games?
All Wallace did was push Artest after a foul which you would think there had to be more to it than the foul otherwise I don't think he would've reacted that way.
How can you also suspend guys who left the bench in this situation as you can easily see they were trying to refrain players from continuing on with it.
Lastly, what the hell was Larry Brown doing getting amongst it, the dude just had a hip replacement!

I would go so far as to suspend Indiana as a team for the remainder of the year...

Golden rule in basketball is that you never leave the bench during a fight...no matter what the intentions are it is viewed as aggresive behaviour.

Stern has said that Artest's fine also takes into his history of behaviour and that is why he got more games.

Look at the incident in hand though. This isn't just any normal on court situation. Players were at risk out there and as a team mate they would be doing anything to help them out. They didn't physically attack anyone they simply tried to restrain certain players and take them out of the situation. That shouldn't be punishable. Think about the situation as a whole event. Yes it was wrong for Ron Artest to run into the crowd but when one player goes into a group of about 30-40 spectators by himself most team mates are going to run in to support him. If you watch the footage it looks as though that's what Rasheed Wallace did. As soon as he saw players getting hit he ran to their defence.
You also have to look at the situation that the other players were in. Spectators shouldn't have been able to confront players on a court like that. They felt threatened and reacted that way, most people probably would. What Artest and O'neal did on the court was in defence of a confrontation. It shouldn't have happened in the first place. Artest Should have got 40 games, Jackson 30, O'neil 20, Wallace 2 and the spectators involved...life!

I dont think they should get any games at all.

This is a criminal / civil matter. Once the issue goes through the courts then maybe the NBA can deal with it. It is simply bigger than the NBA. Like I have said if someone, a stranger, ran into my workplace and started pelting me or my collegues with drink bottles or did this in a basketball game they had better watch out. I think if we honestly put ourselves in this situation we would all do the same. The fans are to blame 100% and I hope the players go them and then the NBA for loss of income.

The NBA league is a PR machine first and foremost, it does not have the abilty handle matter of assault and other criminal offenses. These players are just been punished $Mill and $Mill at the peak of their earnings capacity because of the NBA trying to keep up its PR. I hate it when organisations think they have jurisdiction over legal issues.

Good argument Anonymous, and bravo for being brave enough to put your name to your statement. Come around and see me and I will show you what a joke is...

I agree with parts of what you are saying Panther but some of the punches those players were throwing at spectators were quite disturbing, especially O'Neals running sucker punch and Artest(I think?) standing toe to toe and punching that dude twice in the face. Again you could argue that the spectators were throwing punches first.

How do you stop situations like that happening in the future? Ban alcohol from games? Or especially at the seats?

The punches though on the court were from what I saw in some way self defence. Writers and reporters have commented on O'neil's involvement. Artest was confronted by two spectators so he felt threatened and hit one of them. This guy then got up and went to attack Artest when O'neil came flying across and slugged him one. If I saw a spectator on the court about to charge my team mate I would do the same thing and most team mates would.
In reports, Artest charged and hit the wrong spectator. The guy who threw the drink was two rows back high fiving his mate when Artest attacked this bystander. That's why Stern was so hard on him.
Banning alcohol from the Palace for the rest of the season should be the punishment. America has already got some of the craziest spectators already, why fuel it with alcohol?

all i can say there are some spectators who will be suing the pants of the nba and all concerned for years to come for the trauma of it all - post traumatic syndrome - class actions - lets wait to see the fall out of all the sponsors jumping ship

Good call Panther.

No fans at The Palace next time Pacers play in Detroit. And a ban on alcohol for the rest of the season.

The Indiana team got exactly what they should have got!! Artest is a player on the edge and now he is over the edge! Along with the season to reflect he now has 5million dollars of season payments go up in smoke. Now I don't know about you out there, but I ain't hitting no one if i'm loosing 5mill! Shiiittt!!

There was no reason for punches to be thrown. I don't care what the hell happens! You are at Pro basketballer, in an opposition stadium. You expect to be heckled. OK, so the guy shouldn't have thrown the beer at him, but it was an exsessive reaction.

Jermaine O'neal is a corkhead!

Wallace got a fair slapping and deserved it too!

Pack your bags artest you ain't playin for anything above base wage now boyee!

How is jermaine O'neal a cork head? He's got a clean record and does some incredibly noble things in his community.

Nito, this is bigger than the NBA, but the League must take action outside of whatever legal action is taken.

This happens in alot of sports, like the AFL, where they suspend or epremand players for behaviour ouside of football that really has nothing to do with the sport.

This happened during the game, and for the L to take no action may be perceived as condoning it, even if that is not the intention.

Legally (in OZ, don't know about US) for an action to be considered self defence, the reaction must be relative to the threat. So, some weedy knob lobbing a plastic bottle at you does not allow you free reign to chase him down and beat the crap out of him.

In the case of O'Neil, the guy he clocked was on his knees on the ground. That wasn't self defence. Its hard to be too judgemental though, as the situation was out of control, and rational thinking would have been difficult.

"This happens in alot of sports, like the AFL, where they suspend or epremand players for behaviour ouside of football that really has nothing to do with the sport."

Case in point is Mat Rogers from the Wallabies is potentially about to be suspended for a night club fight.

The doctor...he wasn't on his knees...he was just short!

Exactly clean! Until this happened! I saw the footage! It was completely uncalled for!

Thats why he is a corkhead!

Bags layin the smak down!

Don't know what the law is surrounding 7ft black guys beating up midgets. I'll get back to you on that.

MW, I know it happens and it annoys the shits out of me. I know the arguments for it happening. IE bringing the game into disrepute, professional standards for athletes being higher than for everyone else but I thank that is crap.

Law is law and sport is sport.

I heard that the cops are getting involved in this fracard!
If the players are going to get their wallets lightened then Damn well the supporters should aswell.
I would have whacked that Piston fanwho came on the court to face Artest, he was wizzing of his bloody Nut!

Outta Here Like Artests Trade Value

You can't just seperate "the law" and "sport". The law governs everything we do, including sport, and is not distinguishable from it. Examples are the ability to appeal AFL tribunal (or any other tribunal including BASA) first to Administrative Appeals Tribunal and ultimately Supreme Court and High Court.

Also, it is now a recognised doctrine that on field incidents are subject to criminal and civil law, so if you deck someone behind play, it will be treated as a common assault, rather than part of a sporting match.

This is kind of in support of your point Nito, but the League has to take action as well. The players, by signing contracts agree to be bound by the rules of the League, whatever they may be. Having these players charged with assault and potentially facing jail time, but being free to play next week would not make sense. Just as charging the fans inviolved, but welcoming them back to the next home game would not make sense. See what I mean? Sport is sport, but is part of life, and can't be seperated.

You will find that the spectator is going to be questioned by police. He was already have meant to have showed up for questioning but failed to do so until he got a lawyer. Players will be investigated too but I would be suprised if they will be charged but you could lay an easy money bet that the guys Artest and Jackson snotted in the crowd will take them for a bit of cash!
Sorry I was wrong, any player that stands up for a teammate is now a corkhead...let me guess J Bags, you play singles tennis???

Point taken theDoctor. As long as there is some right for natural justice. IE they can appeal to a real court.

J Bags, from the Indiana Pacers website in support to my comments..."This incident is not representative as to who these guys are as people. I'll give you one example, a guy like Jermaine O'Neal who has no history of any activity like this, never. Over the last three or four years, when he has not been injured, has represented his country on various Olympic and qualifying teams. He's got a record that is really spotless in so many ways and it's our hope, in accordance with Mr. Simon's statement last night that a lot of this will go into consideration. Jermaine is a guy who does a lot of work in the community,..."

Sorry, forgot to mention the above quote is from Indiana Head coach Rick Carlisle.

Does anyone remember last weeks PBT? Quite fitting considering recent events. Picture of Artest on front with the title INSANE??? in big letters across the front. I guess he answered all critics on that one!
The other thing I noticed is the difference in team websites between Detroit and Indiana. On Indiana's it's all about the brawl on Detroit's, nothing on the home page! You actually need to go into News Archives to get anything remotely to an article on it all. Do you reckon the Pistons franchise feel a little guilty???

Yes Jirachi, Artest is insane. It's not just one incident that has led to this. PBT wrote this article before all of this. He's been in anger management since he was 8 years old!
The last part of my post was to do with the fact that the Pistons franchise feel terrible about the whole incident, that their fans played a huge part in bringing the game into disrespute, i'm sure they would hope this whole incident is forgotten quickly.
To say Artest did extremely well to what Wallace did is a joke. If it was Prince or Richard Hamilton that pushed him do you really think he would've ran away like a little girl?? And to say Wallace kept baiting him, did you not see Artest lying on the scorers bench like a little arrogant punk that he is?
Artest smacked Wallace in the back of the head on the play in mention, does that give a spectator the right to come from behind and hit Wallace in the head with a bat??? So what does Wallace throwing a sweat band at Artest got anything to do with a spectator throwing a cup of drink at Artest? Same thing!
That spectator is responsible for his own actions and should and will be punished for it. The same as Artest punching a spectator who had nothing to do with it all!

Dec. 9, 1977: Kermit Washington delivers a crushing blow to the face of Houston's Rudy Tomjanovich. Tomjanovich suffered severe fractures of the face and skull and was hospitalized for weeks. Washington was suspended for 26 games.

Yet Artest didn't land anyone in hospital, and he got the season... hmm.

PS: Jirachi, nothing against you mate, but it's probably not best to admit you're a Bulls fan at the moment... ;)

IMO Artest's penalty is extreme. Having said that, Fly the difference between the two incidents is that Kermit took out a PLAYER, a very different issue to what the NBA are dealing with here.

Fair enough, Cat. Although IMHO hitting a player is probably worse than going after crowd members.

Yer I saw it on ESPN's website. It was commented from writer Bill Simons.."The smoking gun from Friday night, at least for me: Artest went after the wrong fans. If you watch the actual game tape, which they re-ran on ESPN2 in the wee hours that night, there's a replay after everything settles down that shows the blue cup plunking Artest. The camera angle comes from the basket where Artest fouled Wallace, so you can see him lying on the scorer's table, plus you can see the stands behind him (and everyone who eventually becomes involved in the fight).

Thanks to TiVo, if you frame-by-frame it, you'll see the beer comes flying from behind the head of someone wearing a white sweatshirt, and that person is standing two rows behind the guy that Artest initially jumps. Once the camera shifts and everyone starts pouring into the stands, the beer tosser's identity is revealed -- a little bald guy who turns back to high-five someone else in the stands even as Artest is knocking that first guy down.

That's what changed the stakes for the Commish. Artest wasn't just flying into the stands to confront a fan in the wrong -- he had no idea who threw the cup, meaning he was randomly attacking innocent fans. In other words, that could have been you or me standing there with that "Wait a second ... noooooooooooooooo!" look on our faces. You think David Stern wants a running situation where potential ticketholders are saying to each other, "Those tickets are great, I'd love to sit three rows from the court, I don't mind spending the money ... but we're sure none of the players are gonna beat us up tonight, right?" Not happening. They want to make sure this never happens again.

I'll be completely honest and say right now based on just that foul from Artest, Wallace over reacted, which leads me to believe that there is history there and probably more went on in the game.
Like I said Artest has issues, misunderstood or not.

Ha ha ha...I didn't mean like that. From articles I had read and i'll confirm or disagree after I re-watch the tape Wallace was getting hammered all game, there was an incident where Wallace also went through Artest as well on a defensive play, so there was obviously more to it.

I do play tennis on odd occasions! it is a fun and active game. Try it it's well worth it! it helps improve foot work and hand eye co-ordination. Try it sometime!

Yet, I play ball 4nights a week. Not well, but I play! I understand the passion that gets put into a game. I play with a hot headed gringo who starts fights on a regular basis. But we aren't talking local league here! This is the NBA, the pinical of basketball. All the greatest players from around the world are selected to play there! They have a duty of care to keep their calm in situations like this. The ability to think things through before reacting. NBA has a great player induction and preperation scheme. I gues now they will also need to introduce phsycological testing too.
Panther I also agreed that O'neal was a model player and I think alot of punks should follow in his footsteps! Well done to him, but now he thrown it into the trash, and by the stench of your writing is where you come from.

Check mate!

I'm out!
Bags is heading home from a hard day at the office.

I would have to - shock horror - agree with Jirachi on many of his points.

Artests anger management courses obviously were working well up until the beer & bottle incident, trying his best to stay out of what WALLACE STARTED.

If Wallace had not acted like the total and utter water tanker that he is, NOTHING would have happened.

Wallace is totally to blame for the whole incident. And he gets the lowest penalty.

I hope the league fines the bejeezuz out of Detroit, and either makes them give up some home games, or does a fan lockout to teach the morons some lessons.

I hope Artest also sues the fan that threw the stuff at him for causing his loss of earnings.

The fans and Detroit are to blame for this.

However, Jackson and O Neal should have both got worse penalties that Artest. Jackson went into the stands for no reason (at no stage did he even look like helping Artest, he just started throwing ounches and kicks).

O Neal goes and attacks a fan on the court, on his own, with a running sucker punch. That is just stupid.

Unfortunately, with it now emerging that Artest may have attacked the wrong fan, well things dont look great for him.

But I think his penalty needs to be reduced, or the others increased to really reflect what happened.

Just a quick one. A few people have said that the league should stay out of it and not take action against the players, leaving it to the courts etc.

I'm a Manager and if this happened at my work, you would be suspended indefinitely without pay until the investigation was complete .... exactly as David Stern did. I'm your employer, just like the NBA is, and you work here on my rules, like it or lump it.

I'm a Bull man too, Jirachi. Here's hoping we get Artest back for a bargain basement price!!

Check the link http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/basketball/nba/11/22/famous.fights/index.html from Isaac.

JoJo English rates a mention! Or is it SoSo English?

That ron artest is one loose cannon he is a bomb always ready to explode. O'Neal, jackson and the other guys were there caught in the heat of the moment and over reacted. O'Neal didnt't need to swing at that young bloke on the court floor did he.. wallace thought he was fouled hard any maybe artest said something (theres that name again) and they had a little push then it went to far. Fans over reacted as well so it boiled over. So it was boiling so artest decided to start a fire by jumping to the stands thatz when the fire got hot!!! maybe that guy in the crowd thought he needed some cooling down!!! ok, suspensions were good hard and long. We really don't need this for bball & we really don't need artest!!!

J Bags,
If there is any stench around here son, it results from your spelling and grammatical skills. Try to keep your commentary above the belt so that we can converse on the subject matter of interest to us all.
Regards K.

Ritz...you are a fool.

Artest was NOT the reason things started.

WALLACE is the reason. As soon as Wallace started pushing Artest, Artest was trying to back off.

Then when the court brawl was on, he laid on the score bench, and stayed there, trying to keep out of it.

He was then ATTACKED by a Detroit fan, and he responded, perhaps over the top in what he did, but as many people have said on here, they would have remonstrated with the person who threw the bottle as well.

I dont know where you get that Artest said something to Wallace. Artest fouled Wallace (a pretty stock standard foul really)....Wallace turned around and immediately pushed Artest - yes thats right, Wallace pushed ARtest...Artest did not do anything in retaliation. Replays quite clearly show Artest could not have said anything.

After viewing the game tape last night one thing that I did pick up was, just a few plays before the Artest foul, Artest drive to the basket and Wallace blocked him. Two plays or so later a Detroit player was shooting a free throw and Artest started asking the ref why was there no foul.The talk then crossed the keyway in the direction of Wallace and Artest and Wallace were talking and you could hear Artest talking trash to Wallace. Next play down the court Artest blantantly shoves Wallace in the back of the head. A bit of an overreaction from Wallace but obviously the big fella had simply enough of Artest's big mouth.

Yogee,

Yes we all agree with you that Wallace started things with his remonstration to the hard foul. Artest did the right thing and walked away - its after that that I have to disagree with you.
Saying that Artest was ATTACKED by a fan is exagerating things just a tad. He was hit with a plastic cup and while that was a totally unneccesary action by the fan it does not give Artest any excuse for climbing into the stands to fight. Noone MADE him do it - he decided for himself - albeit during a very heated moment - to take the actions he did. As a result he has to now take the consequences of HIS actions. Blaming Wallace for Artests actions IMO is unfair - while he may have started the fracas he DID NOT force Artest to do anything that was his decision. Much the same way as if someone shagged my wife and I then decided to shoot them I doubt the police would believe my pleas of "He Started it so its not my fault"

As for Jacson, Oneal and the fan - -Couldnt agree more with you - throw the book at them all!

I agree totally Statman

The last year Riverland was in the competition Jarrod Graves was spat on during a time out from one of the fans standing above our bench. We spoke to the ref who told stadium management and they got rid of the guy. Whilst we were bloody pissed off it happened, none of us went into the stands and started an all out brawl.

To say Artest was ATTACKED is very over the top. If he was attacked, what was Gravy, nearly killed???? I'm sure there are numerous other incidents where players have had run in with fans, but not retaliated like Artest did.

Anyone remember the bald guy who used to heckle Jordan and the Bulls every time they came to Washington? He would sit behind the bench and read passages from the book "The Jordan Rules" to the Bulls bench. He was also ejected from Game 1 (or was it 2) of the '93 finals games for causing too much trouble. If any of you have the tape, it's either in the 1st or 2nd quarter, and the ref throws him out.
What would have happened to this guy if he heckled Artest?
He might have gone to his car... got his gun... and shot everybodys ass!!!

Only if he was a postal worker ;)

Raymond...Is that you?

Artest goes skitzo because someone throws pepsi at him. Big deal, it wasn't bong water or piss.

Wallace hit Artest in the back of the head & Artest runs away.
What a pansy, what a coward.

O'Neal & Jackson stick up for a team mate who has soft drink thrown at him, so they punch out a couple of midgets.
Why weren't punches thrown by these guys at Wallace when he went after Artest?
Those two are cowards.

O'Neal & Jackson should have both been given the year off.

Most of what you said I agree with Bootney except for O'neal. If you in his situation it's a split second decision and if you watch the clip of what happened, Artest gets confronted by the two guys in Detroit shirts, he punches one of them then the other one charges him and that's when O'neal smacks him one. If I was in public and two guys confronted my mate and tried to take him on I would jump in too. He was only helping out Artest which most team mates and men would probably do.
Jackson on the other hand...

Agree with most of it Panther, but, this wasn't a public place, and if Artest had squared up but not hit the guy on the court, someone would have been on the fan in no time, because he was in a place that no fan is allowed to go. i.e. on the court. The majority of people on the court were peacemakers, except for the fan and Artest.

If after he had gotten hit with the bottle, he took it straight to management or someone in security and showed him where it came from, the fan would still have been banned, the league would still have reviewed security, and everyone would still be playing. Wallace might have gotten a fine, but the rest of the Pacers would still be playing.

Northerner, his name was Robin Ficker ..... and I've seen some games on TV where he just rides the players to hell and back. Here's a few Robin Ficker recollections:

"The irony is that around the NBA, the Bullets were best known for one particular fan. His name was Robin Ficker. He was a lawyer well known for representing drunk drivers and he was also well known for yelling at the visiting bench nonstop for the whole entire game. In his book, Larry Bird said that Washington was the place he least liked to visit. Robin Ficker was the reason. He represented Bullet fans around the NBA and trust me, there wasn't one Bullet fan who liked him. I believe that the biggest reason the Wiz built a new arena was so that they could change the seats and banish Ficker forever. A 300-million dollar arena built just to get rid of one fan? Worth every penny."

"In the arena of "sportsmanship," heckling can be good-natured or it can be considered mean-spirited. In Washington, DC, they still talk about legendary heckler Robin Ficker, who used to drive opposing NBA players crazy with his verbal taunts from behind the visitors' bench. His favorite targets  Michael Jordan, Charles Barkley, Chris Webber  were often thrown off their games by Ficker's non-stop PG-rated barrage, and the NBA eventually implemented a fan code of conduct  nicknamed the Ficker Rule  that allowed arena security to eject patrons who did not abide by the established policy."

You beat me to it Moses. Lots more info on Robin Ficker here courtesy of Google.

K man you have embarresed me beyond belief! My one flaw in life is my spelling, and grammar. Thank you for pointing this out to me. I would like to start the "send J Bags back to school fund." Please forward a cheque to me ASAP. I'm distressed at my underachievement, and would like to feel better about myself.

Also just to clarify. The only below the belt comments I have had is this one, and thats about your hand.

I'm feeling really on the edge at the moment and need some TLC. If I don't achieve something soon I may start swinging at the crowd around my office.

Bags are they tears welling in your eyes?? No, I;ve just got bad Hay Fever!

A down to earth american perspective on the 'fight'

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/041124

Enjoy

the full write up on espn page 2
Comments


A friend called me on Tuesday.


He works in what he calls "real news" television, covering politics and tragedies. He considers the term "sports journalist" an oxymoron. Sports, he says, doesn't deserve journalism.



The next time you watch the riot video, watch closely and use your brain.
The sarcasm dripped from his voice like Thanksgiving gravy as he said: "Well, ESPN finally has its 9/11."


As offensive as that might sound, he has a point: Since Friday night's brawl in Detroit, sports media outlets have competed like so many out-of-control Ron Artests to convince the world that IT HAS ENDED! Sports will NEVER BE THE SAME because of the SHOCKING VIOLENCE THAT TURNED A GAME INTO A RIOT!!!


I wonder: Are we telling people what they want to believe?


Or: Are people overreacting because we in the media are?


Or: Do the video images simply speak -- or scream -- for themselves?


Funny, but "real news" networks have stooped to run with this story, too. Of the 1,466 times I've seen the RIOT video, I believe six or seven were even on The Weather Channel. That's because this video is what producers call "great television." It's a fast, furious flurry of eye-bites that shock and amaze viewers who are desperate to be shocked and amazed.


I'm still not tired of watching it.


Yet the more I watch it, the less I see.


Forgive me for pointing this out, but the death toll was zero. Not one player or fan was seriously injured. Yes, this was a black eye for the NBA. But I couldn't see a single split lip. A "dark day" for this league could have been so much darker.


Just this once, try watching the RIOT video with your brain instead of just your wide eyes.


Ben Wallace's two-hand shove certainly qualifies as violent, yet his palms were open and he didn't aim at Artest's face. Hockey players would laugh at such patty-cake. Earlier in his career, Artest might have returned fire with his fists --- and I'm not sure my money would be on Wallace in that fight. He's two inches taller, but gives away 10 pounds to Artest, who was taught to box by his father, a Golden Gloves champ.


But Artest occasionally shows signs of maturity. He backpedaled all the way to the scorer's table, for example, because trading punches with an enraged Wallace wasn't worth it. Artest is at least smart enough to know the league office was itching for an excuse to punish him after he told the media he needed a month or two off to promote the rap album he produced. And after all, Artest's Pacers were only 45.9 seconds away from humiliating the defending champions on their home court.


But he couldn't simply follow his instincts all the way back to the Pacers' bench. No, he had to grandstand by lying back on the scorer's table with his hands clasped behind his head and his legs crossed. His body language said: "I'm just going to chill here on this table while you sorry losers try to calm down that chump Wallace."


Artest not only was taunting Wallace, but every Pistons fan still in the building. In effect, he was turning himself into a wrestling villain, provoking every nut in the stands. If Artest had merely sauntered back to his bench, it's highly unlikely the WORLD WOULD HAVE ENDED.


But some guy sitting a section away from Artest pulled off a near-miraculous feat. From 60 or 70 feet away, this guy underhanded a cup that landed smack in the middle of Artest's chest. If you give that guy 100 cups from that distance, he couldn't hit Artest in the chest more than two or three times, if that. If he had missed this time, it's highly unlikely that SPORTS WILL NEVER BE THE SAME.


But Artest had placed his pride on center stage. And, even though the cup was almost empty by the time it reached him, the embarrassment of getting nailed pulled Artest's trigger. Quicker than you can say "see you in court," he was charging up into the stands.


Obviously, nothing good can happen to an athlete who goes into the stands after a fan.



Artest didn't show restraint in hawking CDs -- but perhaps he did show some restraint during the riot.
And obviously, the solution here is to beef up courtside security. That way, Artest and other players could control themselves because they have a reasonable alternative. All they would have to do is point out the cup-thrower. Then security guards could escort the fan out of the arena and perhaps the home team could take away his season tickets, if he has them.


But as an NBA general manager in another city told me: "Right now, that wouldn't work for us because that retired 65-year-old female security guard we have sitting behind the visitors' bench wouldn't have much of a chance against a drunk fan. This isn't the NFL. We don't have the bouncers they have."


They might now.


Yet in this case, Artest had no idea who threw the cup. He went flying by the guy who appeared to have thrown it and terrorized another poor soul who was merely jumping up and down and celebrating the direct hit. And here's a lost point: Though Artest pushed the innocent fan, HE DID NOT STRIKE HIM.


Wes Wilcox, an advance scout for the Cavaliers, was watching from his courtside seat. Wilcox told the Cleveland Plain Dealer: "Artest did a good job of keeping his composure."


By his rock-headed, short-fused standards, Artest certainly did. But most fans want to believe Artest has a screw loose, and they automatically assume the worst. If this incident had involved any Pacer other than Artest, the reaction wouldn't have been nearly as nuclear.


Same with Terrell Owens and the "Desperate Housewives" skit.


Yet now, Artest is a wrestling villain caught in the middle of an Artest-hating crowd. What if a fan had pulled a knife or gun? Don't tell me some Artest-hater at the Palace wasn't armed.


And let me tell you: I hear from many fans who sound crazier than any athlete I've covered.


Yet Artest appeared to believe the fan who was screaming, "It wasn't me!" He tried to back off, but so many hostile fans were trying either to restrain him or attack him that he was momentarily stuck. That's why you couldn't condemn teammate Stephen Jackson for rushing to his rescue.


Jackson is known as a loyal-to-the-death teammate who will go to any means to defend his team's stars.


But of course, two players in the stands means double jeopardy -- especially when Jackson can be as emotionally incendiary as Artest. As the GM said: "You can get away with having one of those guys on your team. But not two."


And just as Jackson swooped in, another fan threw a full beer right in Artest's face. That appeared to send Jackson completely over the edge, though he was restrained from pummeling the beer-thrower. Meanwhile, the fan who initially appeared to have thrown the cup at Artest had grabbed him from behind. One moment, this guy was trying to pull Artest away. The next, he was slugging Artest in the back of the head.


Only then did Artest throw the ONLY PUNCH HE THREW IN THE STANDS. Only as the fan lost his balance and fell beneath Artest did he fire one quick, tentative, downward jab. Artest's body language said: "I know I shouldn't be up here and that I definitely shouldn't be throwing a punch at a fan."


Moments later, Artest was safely back on the court. Or so he thought.


As he walked toward the bench, here came another fan in a Pistons jersey. The guy did a little Ali shuffle and appeared ready to rumble. And Artest immediately fired a hard, straight right that appeared to land on the guy's jaw. It's possible the fan partially blocked it. But here came the most amazing moment of the night.


The guy didn't flinch or teeter. He just looked at Artest as if to say: "That all you got?"


It's also possible this fan was feeling no pain. But Artest clocked him again as the fan's buddy tackled Artest around the legs.



When fans are on the court, they're fair game -- players have to defend themselves.
I do not blame Artest for blasting the fan who challenged him. Under the near-riot circumstances, any fan who crosses the line and enters the court should have been fair game for the players. Again, how could Artest know the guy's sanity or alcohol level?


No, Artest was right to swing first, ask questions later.


I can't blame Jermaine O'Neal, either. In the night's most sensational video scene, O'Neal got a running start and tried to deliver a blow that could have rivaled the near 'kill' shot with which Kermit Washington once struck Rudy Tomjanovich. Fortunately, O'Neal lost his footing and some of his leverage as he landed his haymaker upside the head of what appeared to be the fan who had tackled Artest.


But again, this happened ON THE COURT. Fair game.


Through this all, I couldn't see a single security guard or policeman on the video. The Pistons should be ashamed.


And so should anyone in or out of the media who characterizes what happened in the stands as "the lowest moment in American spectator sports." I was at Wrigley Field the night five years ago when a fan swiped the cap of Dodgers' catcher Chad Kreuter, who was sitting in the bullpen. Krueter hopped over the wall and chased him. Soon, six or seven Dodgers were trading punches with four or five fans. Blood was spilled.


That was much worse than this. But that was some player named Kreuter, lost amid distant, fuzzy video.


After a father and son attacked Kansas City first-base coach Tom Gamboa at what was then Comiskey Park in Chicago, many baseball players said that any fan who enters the field during a game will take his life in his hands. In these post-9/11 times, the same should hold for NBA games.


But please don't let any of these facts ruin your RIOT video.

All of the above backs what i've been saying, especially with what O'neal did.

I saw the footage for the second time on sports center last night and from what i saw is Artest getting hit with a bev he then launches into the crowd but i didnt see him throw any punches i did however see the fan that threw the drink hitting Artest in the head about 10 times whilst Jackson or O'Neal was hitting some random bloke in the head I feel that Artest should be suspended but for the length that it is.

all i can say is goodbye finals for the Pacers

Also, I read a report recently that listed Detroit as the most dangerous city of those in the US numbering above 75,000 people. That's a pretty indicative citing!

I fully agree with the anonymous poster above -- not a single word from the league regarding the actions of fans is disgraceful. A great article found by Pioneer too.

Artest was being hunted by Wallace after being shoved in the throat. Then had stuff thrown at him by Wallace and a fan. Then when grappling with a fan, had another drink thrown in his face, while another was punching him from behind.

When he finally got out of the brawling in the stands, looking pretty dazed and bewildered, he had two fans run up to him obviously intent on causing trouble. It was about as close to a warzone as you're going to get at an NBA game and I don't think he should have been penalised so harshly for his actions.

I think that article backs up what Jirachi and I were saying right from the start.

Artest as the leagues current bad boy has been made a scapegoat, because the league had to be seen to do be doing something, and now they know they got it wrong, they cant backpedal.

I hope Artest's appeal reduces his suspension to something more appropriate.

Great Article from ESPN...thanks Pioneer

Rather than have Artest's penbalty reduced I believe it should be Jackson having his suspension INCREASED. Its pretty simple...players cannot go into the stands chasing fans (or anyone) Yes Artest has been made an example of but he made the decision to go into the stands so he pays the consequences.

AS for the fans (if you can actually call them that) I agree 100% that they must also be punished - whether or not the NBA has any durastiction to punish on their own right I am not sure but we havent heard the end of this one as I bet the police and the Pistons organisation will be following it through with the video tapes and making sure these idiots never get to appreciate a game of basketball again

I would suggest that the fans you are talking about are those who were sitting in the stands minding their own business. Who were then set upon for no reason other than Artest and Jackson came after the wrong people. In which case they are more than right in sueing.

if it is the bozo's who came on the floor, lets hope that they are counter sued and get charged with assault themselves and put in prision.

Anon,

You are incorrect Artest did not grabb the guy who threw the beer. He hit an innocent bystander. Check out Bill Simmons on ESPN.com Page 2 and that is why he has so much trouble.