i'd say what ever the referee's said goes and staying warm tonight sheesh they could do that by standing still

I think people need to stop questioning everything the referees do, and get on with whatever you are there to do...play...spectate...score...whatever

Are the refs on here asking what people thought of the decisions you made tonight??

No!! So leave them alone for crying out loud.

Yogee

Lighten up will ya?!
Freddy hasd asked a perfectly valid question - no need to get so defensive!
To answer the question, I don't see the problem with shooting around.
Maybe a real referee could enlighten us as to why it was a problem?

No disrespect intended to Freddy, but it is NOT a vlid question at all.

If he had asked, why did they do it, I could maybe understand, but to ask if it was the right thing or not is questioning the referees.

And quite frankly, it seems to be all that people involved at a district level want to do lately, is bag on referees.

Thats fine I guess, but considering that there are games as early as NEXT WEEK, that the new referees co ordinator cant get covered at the moment, maybe we want to encourage people to join the referees ranks, rather than be discouraged because they are going to be criticised for things as pathetic as whether they allowed players to shoot around whilst getting a shot clock fixed!

How about some positive comments about the refs.

Jeez Yogee, relax. This is an OPINIONATED forum, therefore people are allowed to voice their opinions without someone getting stuck into them! You are not required to reply to every post but if you do, be nice about it !!!

yogee is one of the most respected posters on this forum and a referee.

your talking about the time that it takes a ref to go to the office and retrieve a stopwatch correct? a few minutes tops.

players should listen to the refs and respect their decisions.

chill people it is too hot outside to get so hot under the collar.

a) in reply to freddy's original question. on the night it - as it is always the referee's decision.
there are sometimes considering factors and without being there can't comment on this case but for example. what happens if one end the ring is broken and needs to be fixed, shoot arounds would in this case disadvantage the team with the end with the broken basket and as you can't have both teams shooting at one end the shoot around would not happen.

common sense often prevails best if it is a quick case of getting the problem fixed and the game on the road why allow teams to shoot around to have to bring them back in etc etc.

b) Yogee I hear you, referees do not need to continually explain their decisions but in this case i don't think Freddy was bagging or belitting the ref's i reckon this forum can sometimes be used to educate players in some of the reasons things happen but in no means does that mean they go out to the next ref that doesn't do it that way (and we all learnt as players, coaches, ref's) jump up and down and say the person on the forum said it should happen this way.

C) Freddy referees don't come ready made just as players don't just as coaches don't just as parents don't it is all a learning experience and without knowing and i don't need to know what level or who they were just an observation that it might have been the first time they had been presented with this type of problem.

D) Fly opinionated or not as a forum Yogee does have the right to defend the referees as he points out there are far too few of them and the constant harassment and bombarding and criticism doesn't make their life easy. Jumping down Yogee's throat doesn't help either.

E) here the sermon endth

Fly, I started my post stating "no disrespect intended to Freddy".. How much clearer would you like me to make it I was not attacking him personally.

So...Freedy is entitled to his opinion (quite rightly) without me jumping down his throat.

So, why I am I not entitled to post my opinion of people should lay off the referees, without you jumping down my throat??

That smacks of double standards to me.

My whole original point is.....FReddy was rhere as a spectator, yet he feels he still has the right to question why the refs said the players couldnt shoot around.

Are the refs of the game posting on here questioning how loud or hard freddy barracked for his team?? No. Because it is a irrelevant as whether the players shot around or not is.

I am going to my stand perfectly clear. Umpires are human. They make mistakes, just like the rest of us (and I make my share and then some!). They also have emotions, and when being constantly bagged and questionaed over every little thing they do, they get disheartened, some to the point where they give it all away, to the point that district basketball is facing next week in that there are games that HAVE NO REFS ROSTERED AT ALL. Remember Jirachi mentioning the other week about parents having to ref game?? The cold hard truth is it could start next week.

If a ref makes an obvious blunder, is obviously biased, or is out of control with techs etc, yeah sure, lets discuss it...but we dont need to have them criticised or questioned over every little decision that they make.

But unless that happens, I will always support the guys and girls that get out there every week (or as often as they can) and referee these games AS A VOLUNTEER for the players enjoyment. Go for it refs....have a ball and enjoy your time on the court.

Yogee... i was not questioning what the referee's decision was at all, it didnt even cross my mind. All i was asking was what peoples opinion on the matter was, as it is not a clearly known topic. Im actually a ref myself, and trust me i know all about people questioning calls continuously.

I was not questioning the integrity of the umpire, the decision made, or having a dig.

It was simply to see what others thought on the topis :)

Why did you ever come back to this forum Yogee?

bouncepass that was damn low

everyone has a right to post

life last time i look is not perfect

i do applaud yogee for trying to stand up for the referee's it is my opinion that he at times is too defensive but that is my opinion it isn't personal nor demeaning.

freddy i'd have to ask you as a ref why would you post a topic that asks for discussion on anything that is going to cause ref's especially at junior level to be put under the spotlight. there are so many out of the norm things that happent that even the most experienced of refs have to think twice about correct procedure.

under the circumstances of a junior game when time is of an essence the longer it takes to get the game started etc allowing them to shoot around - in my opinion - takes longer to get the game back on track.

freddy perhaps in hindsight it might have been better ask not what people think but what is the correct procedure.

above all people if you don't like someones posts or opinions don't read them

BouncePass,

I came back to this forum to ensure that rude, ignorant people like yourself aren't allowed to dribble off at the mouth without a chance of being corrected.


Thankyou for proving my decision to be a correct one.

Yogee, I said what I did because everytime a topic is brought up having anything to do with umpires, you jump to close-minded defence of the ref. Accept that sometime refs are wrong (not neccesarily in this case, but in general) and everyone has the right to use this forum to question (or accolade) umpires.

Fly, in my post #14774 in this thread I quite clearly stated "I am going to my stand perfectly clear. Umpires are human. They make mistakes, just like the rest of us (and I make my share and then some!).

How would this be closed mindedness towards umpires.

If they make mistakes that are worthy of being critical of, I will comment on those mistakes - something else I also said earlier in this thread.

I am just so sick and tired of people (mainly people that never have and never will pick up a whistle and ref a game themselves) bagging out the refs for the sake of bagging them out, rather than looking closer to home where problems may lie.

I accept that Freddy wanted to know why the refs said no shooting around, just he could have worded it in a way that didnt appear to be attacking on the refs decision. But....I've been guilty of bad wording in a post before, and text based communication is rarely effective, as it does not allow you to convey emotion and tone.

Why dont we just put the thread to bed, rather than just waste time bantering back and forward, when it is apparent we will not agree.

Just a sec. Wording of the original post could be seen as taken the wrong way, but i as a ref started this post to see others opinions about the situation as i myself am not clear on the procedure.

I did not at all have a dig at the ref, or place them under the spotlight, all my post was was to ask others what they would like to occur in that situation.

My post never incinuated or placed doubt on the refs call, and as i know the ref personally as a friend would not even think about it.

So before people get on their highhorse about referee criticism, which i myself feel the heat of, reply to the post the way it was intended and not reply trying to 'seek' out a different meaning for the post. My post asked peoples opinions of the situation and what they would like to happen.... i did not question the decision nor make reference to anything of the sort.

All future posts on this topic must be a direct response to Freddy's question.

We've had examples of unfair criticism of referees, but this isn't one of them. Please try to keep it on-topic.

And Yogee, Freddy's question was definitely valid. He asked "What do you think should happen?" There was no mention of "What should the referee have called?" at all. It's like asking whether the NBA should keep the 3-point shot in the game; it's not like questioning a specific signalling of 3 points to the scorebench.

i was playing in this game and the umpire didnt allow the teams to shoot because it was only going to be a couple of minutes to wait and they didnt want to get water or sweat in the keyways.

Freddy,

I would let them shoot. Keep 'em happy. It's easier for them to shoot around than to just stand/sit around. If it's a really quick change over - just get them to their benches. When you let them on to the floor don't let them take water bottles on the court, make 'em leave the ring alone.

Anyone Got A Problem With Yogee, They Got A Problem With Me