thought process
Years ago

Who decides who plays Div 1?

Who decides which player is good enough for Div 1.Are parents the best people to coach Div 1 just because their child is a good player,what happens when that child goes up a grade should the coach go up as well.Is it ok for a Div 1 coach to belittle players that are not in their team with sarcasim and derogatory comments?while all the time praising their team saying that they do it better all the time,or should they be looking towards the future/potential Div 1 players.If the Div 1 coach makes lower grade players quit shoul;d they be sacked from their position. Do other clubs keep children up in Div 1 if they dont train?just because their parents may be on the committee.Just after other peoples thoughts on this and there is no need to single out clubs here.

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DICKO  
Years ago

"Is it ok for a Div 1 coach to belittle players that are not in their team with sarcasim and derogatory comments?"

It works for the winningest coach in Australian sporting history.

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Mods please  
Years ago

Can we lock this now? It will only go one way, south very quickly!

Reply #160856 | Report this post


Potty mouth  
Years ago

My thoughts are you are nothing but an anonymous whinger. If you are not happy, take it through the proper channels. If you are still not satisfied, change clubs.

Reply #160859 | Report this post


Interesting  
Years ago

Thought process, ultimately, over a period of 5-10 yrs players are responsible for their own development. There are exceptions but I cannot see many coaches wanting to "make players quit". Maybe the coach in question just does not believe your son/daughter will ever play div 1.

In my expeience (I never played or coached basketball, just a parent) good coaches and bad coaches exist as do good parents and bad parents. Good players will overcome this to succeed and over this period of time will see a number of different coaches. Rather than externalising all the issues from your son/daughter perhaps you should look internally to some of the issues and get help to overcome them. In the long run your son/daughter learning how to deal with what they perceive as adversity will help them with the rest of their life.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

#160859 , they probably already have and if they havent they will change and change a few times only to find the "same experience". Bad coaches seem to always coach the same parent's kids - that is because there is a conspiracy against these parents.

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DB5  
Years ago

I thought it was Brendan Joyce....

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Who decides which player is good enough for Div 1?
The head coach in consultation with previous season coaches and the coaching director.

Are parents the best people to coach Div 1 just because their child is a good player,what happens when that child goes up a grade should the coach go up as well?
In some cases yes. It depends on the coaches ability. The parent should not follow their child necessarily as players need different coaches to help their development. However, as coaches are volunteers this is not always possible.

Is it ok for a Div 1 coach to belittle players that are not in their team with sarcasim and derogatory comments?while all the time praising their team saying that they do it better all the time,or should they be looking towards the future/potential Div 1 players?
Coaches should try to concentrate on their teams development. Worrying about opposition players or referees takes away their focus from their teams performance.

If the Div 1 coach makes lower grade players quit should they be sacked from their position?
No coach makes a player quit basketball. The player has a decision to make whether to stay, move clubs or stop playing. In district basketball a division 1 coaches job is toto develop players for higher levels of elite basketball and win.

Do other clubs keep children up in Div 1 if they dont train?just because their parents may be on the committee.
Most clubs pick the best players regardless of who their parents are. I know of instances in the past where committee members children who train all the time didnt get into div 1 as they were not at the same standard as other players in the grade.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Is this about a Southern coach? mmm.

Reply #160866 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

"Mods please", no way, I want to see if "thought process" can find the Enter key in their next post!

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thought process  
Years ago

dont need to find the enter key it has worked so far

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Sween  
Years ago

shouldiputspacesorpunctuationsinmypost

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thought process  
Years ago

thanks isaac I never thought to put any spaces or punctation in my post thats why there are no full stops or question marks in my post.

I found the enter key now.

Potty mouth my son and daughter are not of Div 1 Quality and I know this, the question was should div 1 parents coach div 1

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Potty mouth  
Years ago

No it wasn't.
You asked about coaches making players quit, picking players who may or may not train in teams because of parents, and coaches using inappropriate comments.
In other words, you were having a thinly-veiled swipe at a coach.

I never mentioned your child once.
I said was that rather than sniping anonymously, take your grievance through the proper club channels. If you aren't satisfied with that outcome, move. Otherwise you just appear to be a whinger.

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facts  
Years ago

do clubs keep kids in div 1 because their parent/s are on the committee?

of course

if the div 1 coach makes lower grade kids quit ... ?

sounds like some homework at the club needs to be done - i'd go elsewhere

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Love4TheGame  
Years ago

thought process, just wondering what positive outcome you hope to achieve by bringing this up here?

Reply #160910 | Report this post


tiger coach  
Years ago

anon 160866, do you know of any particular circumstances or are you stirring the pot? I will be at Marion tomorrow night if you are game enough to talk to someone at the club?????

Reply #160920 | Report this post


Mr Hankie  
Years ago

Hi di ho people. Hope I can still say that and not get into trouble or is it Hi di ha now?
Who decides who plays Div 1? Well I do in my Div 1 team. Good to see things haven't changed people still bagging the most Southernest club.

Reply #160969 | Report this post


facts  
Years ago

my kid played about 1-2 mins off teh div 1 bench some years ago.

and was always blamed when they lost.

trained just as hard and was as evenly skilled as most of the team.

one other kid always started , never a bad word said missed training when they liked.

could not work out what the F was going on.

a year or so later i found that this kids family where doing lunch / dinner regularly with the coach and it was all cosy.

dont think i ever even purchased a coke for the coach - then i knew our problem.

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Camel Toe  
Years ago

Are we talking the same coach?

Funny that the same reason the last club they were at got rid of them as a coach for similar reasons as above. Nepotism is an ugly thing, and nobody wins from it.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

So facts.

What Divs your Kid playing now?

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Hangin Round  
Years ago

Unfortunately it seems that some parents decide where they want their child to play, but the coach decides where they will play.
Unhappy parents should log onto www.pps4me.com
BTW -pps is short for pushy parent syndrome.
There may be a backlog of parents in denial at this site

Reply #161107 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

GOLD Hanging!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Don't for one minute mistake being kind for brown nosing...............some times both don't work!!

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JRay  
Years ago

Yep and some coaches have no balls and allow themselves to be seduced as it's easier than being 'unpopular' with the pushy parents. As a respected old coach of mine once said, 'the ones who kiss your arse take you for a fool'. Think about it!

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xtc  
Years ago

Who decides who plays div 1?

GOD!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

In every club the process is the same and in every club, in every sport, the process can and is influenced by a number of factors.
The first factor is Surname. Good players offspring have a head start and this is the way of it. It's no use arguing this one because in most cases it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. Fair talent, when time and energy is invested, usually turn out good enough.
The second factor is the good club person's offspring. These people make themselves invaluable to the club and the club rewards them. You can't argue this one either for the above reason and also 'why shouldn't there be a reward for parents hard work ?'.
The third factor is the parental marketting machine. They assasinate their childs rivals at every opportunity by dropping hints that 'good as little joe is, he/she still needs a lot of work in blah , blah and blah. One parent used to attend TI camps etc just to down play rival players ability to the right ears. Sometimes this type of parent has weight in the club or is even a coach so its difficult to argue against this one to. They market their child to any and all who will listen and said enough becomes fact.
Fourth factor is JDO's. Good ones make clubs stronger and weak ones are influenced by all of the above.
Fifth factor is the coach and ditto to above.
A sixth factor is is the perception those in power, like JDO's, coaches and committee people have of the parents of a child. Perceived trouble makers,thats anyone who wants to be able to ask questions and does, offspring have a hard road to tread which makes sense from a coaching perspective even if the kid isn't half bad.
The seventh factor is the most common and it relates to the time on court a kid gets and how everyone concerned handles it. Coaches usually play to win and parents can sometimes not understand why their child was limited to the minutes they received and complain instead of seeking advice on it first.
The last factor of note is the coach who'll tell you he/she cant be influenced by anyone but so obviously is. You cant argue with this one.

Kids get to play Div 1 for a multitude of good and less good reasons. Sometimes they deserve the spot, sometimes they dont. What is important is how you deal with it.
One thing is for sure there is no end in sight of dodgy selections or omissions at the junior or senior level in our sport or in any sport and they will continue as they always have.
The best news is , if your kid is good enough, can cope with the rejections, take whatever limited opportunities present then they will remain in the mix
and talent will win out. Talk to any parent of a Div 1 or SASI kid to learn about obstacles to success, favourite and mind boggling selections and you'll find a common thread.
No matter what the reason might have been for your exclusion to anything- work harder to prove them wrong.

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Minn  
Years ago

I just want to offer some insight into the mindset of selectors that may or may not be relevant to the people thinking about and responding to this topic.

First of all I am not a South Australian. I am involved in the Vic Country program and am childless. I have been involved in first-stage player selections at a regional level (12s & 14s) and firmly believe that talent is only one factor in so-called talent identification.

The kids who go to skills days come from a number of small associations, if a coach from your association is there it increases your chance of being selected, we all push hard for 'our' kids to get picked.

Surname matters. If your cousin is good, so are you.

Parents can't participate in selection when they have a child involved. Said child always makes it through unless he can't catch. Country cup and pacific coast slam teams are loaded with the offspring of coaches (at least 10 that I know of), which is sometimes fair enough, having someone at home who can work on your game is a plus, but half the time those kids wouldn't be good enough to be selected if they left their surname at home.

The number of kids who happen to be siblings of proven players is amazing. Height and speed are generally hereditary and that's all we care about over here! Is that true in SA also?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Height and speed are generally hereditary and that's all we care about

Yeah, fancy targetting tall, fast players!

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Fat Bottomed Girl  
Years ago

And GOD works down at Valletta Rd!

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Minn  
Years ago

#162071

People grow at different rates, today's shortarse may be tomorrow's giant. That tall u/14 may have finished growing.

Speed can be developed.

Work ethic and coachability trumps height and speed if height and speed is uncoachable.

Obviously tho, everything else being equal, pick the taller, faster player, but don't put all your eggs in the height and speed basket!

Most vic country teams perform worse in 18s than in 16s.

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Hmmm  
Years ago

Conversely SA metro teams (particularly boys) do much better at 18's than 16's and even better again as 20's. Now I know Country and Metro combine but so do every other State as well. That says that our TI system is not the basket case that some posters on here make it out to be. In fact pound for pound SA and Tasmania are seen nationally as the best producers of talent.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

today's shortarse may be tomorrow's giant/That tall u/14 may have finished growing.

Less likely if his parents are both taller.
Today's shortarse may also be tomorrow's shortarse - more likely again if both parents are small.
It's usually not hard to make a fairly accurate guess - look at the parents. Man-beast U14s also generally stick out as "early developers".

Speed can be developed

Height can't.

If ANY player is uncoachable, be him small or tall, he won't be in an elite program for long. Bit I didn't see too many 5'7" unathletic hustle-guys at the last World Champs.

we all push hard for 'our' kids to get picked.

If you indeed do this, you shouldn't be involved at all.

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Anonymous  
Years ago


Why do sasi bother with short kids when they obviously have no future at higher levels?
Why do parents with kids who are not tall encourage or allow them to play district when there is nowhere for them to go?
Why do district clubs play kids right thru their developmental periods in positions they will never play at a higher level?
Why dont they rotate coaches at sasi?
Why have a country and metro duplicitous structure?
Why do more 16 to 18 year olds drop out of basketball than other sports?
Why is basketball so expensive as its not proping up the 36ers anymore or settling debts?
Why arent their more female coaches especially at sasi, it could only improve it?
Are sasi coaching personnel subjected to performance criteria?
What the hell has the new BSA done that separates it distinctively from BASA?
Are there too many clubs and less players of quality to fill them ?

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LI  
Years ago

"Why do parents with kids who are not tall encourage or allow them to play district when there is nowhere for them to go?"

As a parent of one of these kids, I allow it because of the enormously useful life lessons learnt.

With a few exceptions, kids realise what they are worth in the big scheme of things at the age of about 16/17.

Only one or two players per age group will have "anywhere to go". The others achieve to their ability, which can be a very good ability compared to most others, so they can be proud of themselves.

However more importantly, provided they are coached well they learn
- to push themselves to their limit when it is worth it
- that practise and keeping at it improves their performance
- to be disciplined and organised
- to take on advice and rejection
- to deal with negativity (every Div 1 player is confronted with negative approaches at some stages in their carreer; as a parent, I see these as learning opportunities).

What more do you want? Your kid's gaining incredibly valuable experiences that he/she can go back to and rely on later in life!

On top of that they have a great time playing ball at the highest level available for juniors.


If you don't see it this way, I'd have no idea why you'd allow it.






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Anonymous  
Years ago

'Basketball teaches kids what they are worth', I don't think so.

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Anon  
Years ago

Skill and brains over height and speed will more than likely win the game. The kids with speed and height get the court time more than the others but it is a mistake that many make and it does cost games.

Coaches are height obsessed in the younger ages which is a real pity as skill and brains may end up being 6'4" come their 15th year and have missed out on the opportunities and first class training given to the taller counterparts, who have dropped away in the older age groups because some just dont have what it takes no matter how much time and effort the coaches put into them. In the meantime skill and brains is the one that goes to all the skill camps, attends all trainings, practices at home 24/7 and atends carnivals that they are asked to be in. Many talls that I have come in contact with don't do half the amount of work, dont train regularly put other sports first and get the easy ride. Some clubs will tell you point blank that if you haven't had the Div 1 training all the way through, it doesnt matter what height the kids get to - they will not be looked at. And this is what is wrong with basketball in this state!

This is the negativity that is being a second year div 2, 3, 4 & 5

And, it does not teach kids what they are worth, my kids are worth a lot more than what is being dished up in the lower grades, but thankfully their lives are not determined by their success or lack of it playing basketball. They have friends, achieve well at school and have other interests.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Worse for girls who are tall early and end up playing post till the others catch up around the U18's where the 'once tall' girls are discarded for being under skilled and only senior guard height. Clubs don't always put the kids future ahead of present needs despite the development they proise.

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