Isaac
Years ago

How to stop NBA teams tanking?

(I don't think this topic's come up recently, so figured it'd be worth another run around.)

At this time of year, a number of NBA teams are throwing games (usually by benching stars with soft or suspect injuries) to best position themselves for a best chance at draft lottery picks.

It's not good for fans. Take a look at the boxscore of MIA-BOS today, for example.

Is there a way to prevent or discourage them from doing it?

One suggestion I saw on ESPN a year or so ago was for the lottery odds to be decided based on positions/records earlier in the season. Teams, then, might be less likely to have thrown games to improve their chances as they might not really know how their season might pan out.

The problem with that, though, is that once the season is decided for the lowly teams, they could still bench stars to protect them from injury.

Is there any way to stop it or at least minimise it?

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Who Me?  
Years ago

I don't think that this happens as much in NFL or Baseball as it does in Basketball.

Maybe a way to resolve it is to not have Guaranteed Contracts (For Owners Benefits) and Greater Free Agency (For Players Benefits).

That way, no player would be prepared to sit out 10-15 Games (or more in some cases), otherwise his contract may not be renewed for the next season. Conversely, teams like the Bucks would not be stuck with their current team as they could have got rid of a couple of useless players (such as Gadzuric & Simmons) who are being paid close to $15M between this season.

If players don't perform well in the last few games of the Season they may not have a place to play next year, conversely, a guy like say Monta Ellis of Golden State who has really stepped up this year, would be able to get immediate upgrade for the next season, not have to wait for his contract to expire (even though that is a bad example, becuase Ellis is a Free Agent after this season)

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Anonymous  
Years ago

How about at a point of the season when atleast 3-5 teams are eliminated from the NBA, the best team of record from that point to the end of the season, the best wins some nice $$$?

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Isaac  
Years ago

Who Me, isn't it the clubs sitting the players, not the players doing that of their own accord?

Anon, I actually wondered about financial incentives from the league, or from TV rights deals. But the purpose of the draft is to provide for the struggling teams. Financial incentives for performance would just make the best richer and even better.

What about weighting wins and losses so that results from earlier in the season have a greater bearing on the lottery odds? e.g., a loss at the start of the season could be worth twice the value of a tanked game at the end?

That's not really too different from the cut-off date in that stars will still rest minor injuries once they're team's missed the finals race?

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Kent Brockman  
Years ago

Have a higher waiting on players per game salaries toward the end of the season.

Would Wade be happy sitting out if it meant as much as 1/2 his salary would disapear?


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Run TMC  
Years ago


Yes, but just because the best players are on the court doesn't mean there is any incentive to win.

As pointed out already there seems like there could be some improvements made (eg early season form has more weight than end of season) but I don't think the problem will ever go away or be fixed completely. I guess you just have to hope that the basketball gods (or Mr Stern) find a way of dealing with the tankers come lottery time. Although the Celtics situation turned out remarkebly well in the end - it was initially looking pretty bad after they (allegedly?) tanked at the end of last season to try and land Durant or Oden and ended up with the fifth pick.

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TC  
Years ago

Change the lottery system from only using end of season win loss ratio. A new system could take into account the team's record at the All Star Game as well as seasons end. An idea could be that teams who are in the lottery positions at the time of the ASG are rewarded by a better chance in the lotto draw if they can increase their winning percentage during the period from ASG to seasons end.

So hypothetically if a team, say the Bucks, are at 10-35 at the time of the ASG but manage to win 18 of the remaining 37 games to give them a record of 28-52, they will get a better chance in the lottery compared to a team such as the Knicks, who were 17-28 at the ASG but only won 8 of their remaining games to give them an overall record of 25-60. Perhaps this would have to be implemented for teams that got less than a certain amount of overall wins, say 34. Then the teams which finished with 34 or less wins for the season have their draft chances determined by amount of games won after the ASG, therefore giving the Bucks better chances the Knicks. Teams which have won 35 games or more use the normal regular season win loss ratio, and are added onto the lottery list after the teams that had won 30 or less have had their order determined.

Whether what I just wrote makes a great deal of sense I don't know, but the idea is to encourage winning.

Reply #180423 | Report this post


TR  
Years ago

I have faith in David Stern to never allow a team that is tanking or rumored to be tanking to win the lottery.

Look at the Celtics, Bucks and Grizzlies from last season, they were rumored to be tanking and end up in the worst possible places they could be in.

If a team wants to ruin itself with tanking then good luck to them.... Mr Stern will screw you come lottery time.

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billo  
Years ago

I have a mate who was in Miami over Easter and decided to see a Heat game, when he booked his tickets he was expecting to see Shaq and Wade, by the time the game came round there was no Shaq, no Wade, no Marion, Pat Riley wasn't even there! He said it was terrible, they went down by about 20 to Washington (who in the absence of Gilbert are lacking any big names themselves).

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Speed44  
Years ago

I think TC's theory is a good one....

Begin with an "Event" such as when the first team to clinch a playoff berth occurs (Boston this year) or some other event such as the All-star game, as TC mentioned earlier, occurs.

Then from that moment on to the end of the season, the team with the best record in this time period, who misses the playoffs gets first pick, team with 2nd best record gets 2nd pick, same with the third.

After the third pick, it goes back to the team with the overall worst record with the 4th. So the best a team can expect if they tank is 4th pick, reward the teams that are trying. There is no incentive for Miami to try right now.

Now I know that people will say that this method doesn't help the teams that suck the most, but with tanking happening and the always unpredictable lottery system, is the worst team really getting the first pick that often anyway? Very rarely IMO.

I know it's not perfect, probably a huge amount of flaws in it, but I think TC is on the right track here.

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Oden08  
Years ago

I agree with TMC and TR - every system has it flaws and tanking will still occur. The problem is you can't prove it is happening in a legal sense - i.e. the guys that are playing at the moment for Miami aren't trying to lose, they are just not good enough because they are mainly D-leaguers and are missing most of their starters and their coach! But everyone still knows it is happening - this is where Mr Stern comes in.

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twenty four  
Years ago

Only problem with that, Speed, is that a team out West will get the first pick with a .500+ record.

I agree with TR. If last year wasn't enough of a warning about blantant tanking, teams will never stop anyway.

To be honest, you are never going to find a system that everyone is happy with, so you might as well leave this one in place. How many times has the team with the worst record actually ended up with the #1 pick lately, anyway.

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TR  
Years ago

I think the last team with the worst record to win the draft was the Cavs and Lebron. The Cavs didn't tank that season they were just a putrid squad.

In a decent draft class the team with the worst record is guaranteed a top 4 pick, 2nd worst team a top 5 and 3rd worst team a top 6.

The year the Bucks won the lottery and selected Bogut they were slated for the 6th pick in the draft.

Keep the current system in place, but just make it a public showing for all. Currently the draft is still conducted behind closed doors. Each and every year a team or two moves up in the draft.

I'd like to see it like a bingo game. Keep the system in place, broadcast it live and then watch the team representatives highlight the number which is drawn. It would be much more exciting than it is now....

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LC  
Years ago

I thought it was like bingo already???

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Melvin Corpuscle  
Years ago

I'd like to see a gladiator style tournament.
Each team nominates one player to fight for their draft pick, in a steel cage fight to the death ... as each player is eliminated, their team is assigned the lowest lottery pick - until you are left with two guys in a fight to the death for the number one pick - no ones gonna take a fall in that scenario !

This may sliiiiightly dilute the talent pool of the NBA, but it would also give the guys at the end of the bench extra incentive to work hard - to avoid becoming the designated gladiator.

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Isaac  
Years ago

Melvin, and to be eligible, you have to have suited for the last 10 games of the regular season - that'll stop teams sitting their best players!

Reply #180478 | Report this post


Why don't the bottom 6 or 8 teams have a tournament to decide who gets the highest pick. Then if teams want to tank they won't be in form for the draft tournament.

Brilliant!

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Isaac  
Years ago

Well, you want to favour the team that's legitimately bad. That just favours the team that's decent but tanking the hardest and defeats the purpose.

I still think weighting earlier games, or going on positions earlier in the season would help solve the problem about as much as it can be solved.

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Well you can't award the first pick too early, or there's a slight possibility that team could win the title

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Anonymous  
Years ago

It is sort of like bingo now, but it's confusing as all hell. To understand the current process you need a degree in mathematics.

This is how the draft works:

To determine the winner, fourteen ping pong balls numbered 1-14 are placed in a standard lottery machine and four balls are randomly selected from the lot. The order in which the numbers are drawn is not important. That is, 1-2-3-4 is considered to be the same as 4-3-2-1. So although there is a total of 24 orders in which the balls numbered 1-2-3-4 can be picked, they are all treated as the same outcome. In doing this, the permutation of 4 balls from 14 becomes the combination of 4 balls from 14. That is, the total of 24,024 (14! / 10!, or 14x13x12x11) possible permutations is reduced by a factor of 24, to 1,001 combinations. Of these, 1 outcome is disregarded and 1,000 outcomes are distributed among the 14 non-playoff NBA teams. The combination 11-12-13-14 (in any order that those numbers are drawn) is not assigned and it is ignored if drawn; this has never occurred in practice.

Give the worst team 250 combinations on a board and filter it down etc etc. Place each of the combinations up on a huge jumbotron style TV and then tick off the numbers that equal the combinations and count down the numbers. The NBA could really mess with people's mind by allowing the teams with less chances fill up some numbers before one the teams with the worst record comes from no where to land the top pick

Also make the draft live so you can see the faces of the team representatives either sh*t themselves in horror or wee the pants in celebration.

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TR  
Years ago

Above is mine..... damn new notebook....

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Ingles13  
Years ago

nice explanation TR... although I got condused lol

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chris  
Years ago

I think the most balanced system could be one where the lottery is eliminated and the order of the draft is the order in which teams are eliminated from the playoffs. So the first team who is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs will have the first pick in the draft. This will prevent tanking becouse any team will still have a theoretical shot at the playoffs up until the point when thier draft position locked. Teams may still choose to sit players to prevent injury at the end of the season but, this can be countered with an incentive like: The team with the most wins after they are eliminated from the playoffs will host next years all-star game. Since the players that are being benched are all-star candidates anyway, they may make an objection about taking a seat. Teams take pride in hosting allstar games and thier arenas make extra revenue. Plus how cool would it be if some years the first draft pick plays in the allstar game in thier own city.

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chris  
Years ago

I think the most balanced system could be one where the lottery is eliminated and the order of the draft is the order in which teams are eliminated from the playoffs. So the first team who is mathematically eliminated from the playoffs will have the first pick in the draft. This will prevent tanking becouse any team will still have a theoretical shot at the playoffs up until the point when thier draft position locked. Teams may still choose to sit players to prevent injury at the end of the season but, this can be countered with an incentive like: The team with the most wins after they are eliminated from the playoffs will host next years all-star game. Since the players that are being benched are all-star candidates anyway, they may make an objection about taking a seat.

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