Anonymous
Years ago

Zones 4 Country Areas.

With the recent country champs just completed its an opportune time to consider why many of the talented players from the bush end up at certain clubs.
Many of the country regions are linked to district clubs with Forestville having most of the south stitched up as well as Whyalla and York Pen through their country/district coaches and the Kadina connection.
Sturt are well placed east and have coaches/teachers in boarding schools in the metro area to snare new talent and affiliations with specific country areas.
Norwood has Port Augusta sewn up and is into Pt. Pirie and so on.
Which leads into why country areas are not zoned to evenly distribute talented country players across the district clubs.
At present it would be almost impossible to recruit country kids if you were from a club other than the top 4 or 5 clubs because of the official/unofficial relationships that these clubs have in place.
This is not a criticism of clubs building strong relationships with country areas or a district/country coach issue but more a highlighting of how a bits and pieces approach has led to country kids being monopolised.
Zoning country areas would even the playing field and allow each club to work within that area effectively for the wider benefit of the district competition.
Opponents of zoning continually open the lazy club syndrome as a defence of established relationships but I feel for our comp to grow it needs some formal structures to be implemented

Topic #15276 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

Opponents of zoning continually open the lazy club syndrome as a defence of established relationships

Correct.

How many clubs were pro-active and had coaches out at these championships (or probably more importantly, the U12 and 14 champs last month)?

Reply #180414 | Report this post


Just let them play where they want.

Reply #180415 | Report this post


Country Dad  
Years ago

I quite agree!
It would be good to see more input from the city teams into the country areas. There are a lot of good players in the country that would improve with some city influence.

Even if there is not a zoning area, then it would be good to have a "country showcase" where country kids can come and try out in front of the district club scouts. From there, the scouts can approach the parents.

Being a country dad, my lad plays in our local competition and gets 2/3rds of the points each week, is double tagged each game and represents the local country district team.

He should be playing in the city comp. however, the city clubs have their tryouts all on the same day at the same time!!!

Reply #180417 | Report this post


knowledge  
Years ago

central women's aba team could use a few of these talented country players.

Reply #180422 | Report this post


You woud think that they wouldn't hold their tryouts all on the same just in case someone doesn't quite know what team they want to play at yet. Being in Mt. Gambier i do know people who have connections with a couple of Metro teams but it would be nice every now and then that a few teams send out a few people to have a look around and see what they can find. That "country show case" thing that Country Dad went on about is a good idea.

Reply #180425 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#414,
Thats just the point. How could other clubs recruit from the country areas when the country players in those areas are almost exclusively under the scrutiny of specific district clubs?
Do you think Matho or Patto would be urging any young hopeful to go to Norths or Wests? Don't Millicent give most of their talent to Forestville? etc. etc.
Under the present system very few areas would be fertile recruiting for the so called 'lazy clubs' because of the arrangements that have developed over the past decades.
It's time to formalize areas for recruiting purposes so that all district clubs prosper.
Yes I think in the past district clubs have been slack in not developing country regions and supporting more country carnivals etc but I don't think the present nepotism is helpful long term to basketball at any level. Making the strong , stronger only weakens further the district comp which is only 3 or 4 teams deep across the age groups in boys and girls.
If we are serious about SA again becoming a significant player in National basketball then BSA need to recognize it needs a strong district club base in which access to players across the state is assured and open to all evenly.

Reply #180426 | Report this post


If you are a real country resident (sorry, Mt Barker, despite what BA may rule its a freakin outer suburb of Adelaide)then the 1st question you need to answer is "am I going to bring my child 120kms plus every week and stay for the weekend training?"

If the answer is "yes" then come on down.

If the answer is "sometimes" or "only for games and the occasional training" then please stay put.

I have seen both sides at our club and the parents that only turn up for games and the occasional training are doing the club, their child and the childs teammates a disservice. The talented country kids whose parents are prepared to bring their kids down for the hard yards reap the rewards.

No way in the world would I expect a country kid to attend mid week trainings; however they must attend most weekend trainings.

Everyone deserves the same opportunities; however it does work both ways.

Reply #180428 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"At present it would be almost impossible to recruit country kids if you were from a club other than the top 4 or 5 clubs because of the official/unofficial relationships that these clubs have in place."

And it is also impossible because those other clubs don't actually ATTEND country carnivals, MAKE CONTACT with players of interest and ENQUIRE about possibly playing in the district comp. Kind of decreases your chances.

Instead those clubs whine about zoning.

Reply #180429 | Report this post


Country Dad  
Years ago

Country kids who are serious about their basketball will make that journey on the weekend, not during the week as they play in their local league, but the city clubs need to be out there looking.....
You can't just roll up to the DNSP in an area and look at those kids, not all country kids do DNSP because of other commitments. That's the lazy way!
Remember that the country kid who plays for city trains with their local country club, plays with their country club, trains with their country district team, plays carnivals with their country district team and then plays and trains with their city team.
These kids are not your average city player who is dropped off by mummy after school for an hour's baby sitting (aka training)

Reply #180435 | Report this post


VC fan  
Years ago

So we should zone city players aswell. . .
Oh wait, then someone will say that that isn't fair and that they should be able to choose thier own club, so why should country players be any different, they live even further away and have to travel even further.

What if a Port Lincoln player gets zoned to Centrals but has an uncle etc living at Noarlunga who they can stay with?

Zoning on a metro level would be a bad idea, zoning on a country level would be ten times worse.

Reply #180445 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Country Dad you had me agreeing with you until "These kids are not your average city player who is dropped off by mummy after school for an hour's baby sitting (aka training)". Do you think city dad's are lazy? I don't rush home from work Tuesday and Wednesday nights so that I can dump my child at training (for baby sitting). I rush home so that I can drive the 1/2 hour through peak hour traffic to get her to training. I like to know what the kids are learning so I stay the two hours of training. When I can't do this I rely on other working parents (male and female, single and partnered parents)to make one of the trips. I am very grateful for their assistance, as is my child. I too do not agree with zoning. The last thing any parent (player) wants to do, particularly if the child has any talent, is to make all the efforts required, both financial and physical, for their child to not learn enough, be in the presence of other kids and parents who do not want to make the required effort. They are the reasons we left the club we were at and would be required to play for under the zoning system. My child is very happy playing in a team where all the kids are on the same page as her, committed, enthusiastic, and dedicated to the love of the game in the knowledge that their efforts will equal continued improvement. If I were a country parent making those extra efforts required of country parents, I would certainly want my child playing for a club where the other kids and parents were on the same page. Hence the reason country parents/kids choose Forestville, Sturt, Norwood etc.

Perhaps other clubs need to take a look at the culture within their clubs down to the team level of kids and parents. Then perhaps they might find the answers to help plan a strategy to move forward and become successful.

Reply #180453 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#453
The kids end up at the clubs you named because those clubs have the country areas tied up thru country/district coaches , country-city connections, regional alliances with metro teams and positions at boarding schools.
Only people at those clubs oppose zones and it has nothing to do with whats right for basketball.
Forget yesterday and the stupidity that some clubs work harder and open your eyes to the fact that unoffiial zones are in place right now that deny access to country players to a good number district clubs.
Small minded, 'my club is better than your club rubbish with premierships as the goal' will continue SA's slide towards the bottom of the National pecking order of basketball states. Start trying to find solutions to the impediments in front of clubs successes, forget what happened yesterday and open country up to all district teams.
With distinct zoned country areas in place and access for all clubs to country players, things like pro/rel become options that will attract more favourable attention. At the moment the pro/rel debate under the present gerrymander would spell oblivion to the smaller clubs and an even more incestuous comp.

Reply #180457 | Report this post


';'  
Years ago

Yeah lets zone all the country kids to clubs like Southern , Central and Eastern. Watch them not learn a thing, hate basketball and not come down after a while. They are travelling long distances so they should have the choice who they play for.

Reply #180460 | Report this post


Giraffe 33  
Years ago

(#180460 | Grrr!) Eastern's entire player base is Country!

Reply #180471 | Report this post


Country Dad  
Years ago

180453 - just stirring you guys up looking for a nibble!!

The answer may not be a zone, but giving the city clubs an opportunity to get a level playing field as far as attracting country kids, kids being able to select clubs, and making it all work for the kids - who are the focus of all this.

Reply #180472 | Report this post


PPDO  
Years ago

Oh why bother with this post.........
District coaches and scouts were at both champs....
If a kid is good enough and the parents are willing to take the kid to Adelaide, then clubs will make an offer to suit....

Kids and parents will go where the best development and playing time are.
I spose this will start a fight Metro Vs Country!

And No .... Norwood dont have Port Pirie sewn up!!!!
Who are you Country Dad?

Reply #180483 | Report this post


Country Dad  
Years ago

PPDO, I am closer than you think . . .

Reply #180485 | Report this post


Zoning is a dud of an idea for the very point that VC fan made. Also a northern based country u16 child that was zoned to certain club at the moment would be rewarding that club for sitting on their hands for the last 3 seasons, stuffing up the u16's programing.

People will always have a go at the clubs that say they work their buts off in country areas, but the fact is if they didnt work their butts off they would not attract the country kids.

Some clubs are also lucky enough to have talented country kids walk in off the streets. Success breeds success. You get out of the sport what you put into it.

Country Dad. It is everybodys right to have the opportunity to play at district level, and in most cases the best do; however please do not perpetuate the myth that the less distance you travel, the lazier you are because that is wrong.

Country or Metro? It just dosnt matter, its the family that wants to succeed whose kid will play div 1 at district level. Playing div1 no matter if you are country or metro is a family commitment.

Reply #180497 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Lets see, networking to increase their player bases....sounds smart to me. But you're right, we should definitely punish these clubs so we can even it up for the lazy clubs who were not willing to put in the work.

Reply #180517 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

517: networking in most cases is easy with a monopoly and it is not the result of smart planning but simply having coaches in both country state and district clubs, in some cases, which should never be allowed because of the conflict of interest it creates.
I don't believe any of the clubs are lazy and such an accusation says more about you than them.
Basketball in SA lurched and evolved rather than was the product of a structured approach and as a result of that, some clubs developed country contacts etc and 'networks' which now exclude rather than benefit the whole basketball community.
Anyone that does not want a level playing field on access to all the talent available simply doesn't understand the damage that these clubs stranglehold on country players has on competition or doesn't care.
Why would anyone object to zones that allow clubs to develop and foster that zoned area and spread the talent more evenly if their aim is to promote SA basketballers?

Reply #180523 | Report this post


Seriously  
Years ago

Can you please stop posting. We all know who you are! You have an axe to grind and I fear you'll continue to grind it until there's nothing left. Basically most of the zoning, country kids, SASI /State / elite level snipes are you, your style is easy to pick. Just stop now, your views on all these subjects are constantly refuted, you have minimal support. PLEASE LEAVE HOOPS SA ALONE!

Reply #180530 | Report this post


fox82  
Years ago

523: As a parent who has been there done that and tried at a lower level club with a talented kid, I am telling you the culture at the lower level clubs is the problem. There needs to be attitude change at the team/grade level with the kids and their families. Plan a valid way out of your 'tall poppy syndrome' culture. Teach the children and families about how to plan for success - respect good players and appreciate their efforts - because if the team doesn't another club/team will. Zoning will not work. Families will leave clubs and the sport if the culture is negative. Clubs need to build a positive culture that will lead to success. Stop blaming the top clubs, learn from them. That's what the business world does.

Reply #180531 | Report this post


fox82  
Years ago

P.S. netball is a highly successful sport in Australia with hugh participation rates. Guess what, in Adelaide (don't know about the rest of Aus) - NO ZONING!

Reply #180532 | Report this post


PPDO  
Years ago

Country Dad,

If you are close, then you know me....
Give me a ring on my mobile and we will see what we can work out.

Reply #180533 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"networking in most cases is easy "

Then you should have no problem getting out and promoting your club, going to country carnivals and as a result access to country kids. Unless your club is lazy.

Reply #180545 | Report this post


(#180523) A really easy way around this "closed boys networking club" is for your club to get up off its hands, get out there and start networking your own club.

What; so all the country areas are networked, so you just through your hands up and pray that BA will have a change of policy and help your club out of a tight spot? You can wait for the "tide to turn" but by your club not doing anything that tide will never turn.

If buisness worked with the same attitude you seem to have then all the companies that were around 50-100 years ago would have the monopoly on the worlds finances. This isnt the case is it?

If someone or some club has a better product, you match it or come up with a better or cheaper product that does the same thing.

Reply #180549 | Report this post


One of the best posts I've read this week o' slow one.

Of course, we all know it won't happen. It's far easier to complain about those that do the work.

Reply #180558 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

You are missing one big point here. No country association wants to be networked by a city club. If you think this then you are an arrogant city person. Country associations generally are more self sufficient than many of the BSA clubs, better financial position, better organised domestic comp. On behalf of my country comp. I can say, no one club will turn up and say you are with us, and none of our players are directed to one Adelaide club. We have players at, Eastern, Sturt, Forestville, South, Southern Tigers.

So what do country parents look for if they want their children playing in Adelaide? They look for basic things, organised training program and organised coaches. Its a long way to travel each week if the adelaide club has not got their act together.

Zoning will never get accepted by many country associations, dont fool your self.

Reply #180561 | Report this post


(#180561) I am not sure if you ment "networked" in your second sentance or zoned.

If you ment networked, then networking is not the big nasty you think it may be. Networking is all about fostering relationships and future contacts that can be used to help smooth the way for the future; networking does not have to be restricted to one club, as all clubs should have the opportunity to foster relationships in country areas that may help in identifiying talent.

If you ment zoned, then yes I agree.

Point well taken on the financial positon and organisation of some country associations; however the real point is the direction in which the kids flow to clubs. It is almost exclusivly country to city, not the other way around.

Reply #180591 | Report this post


surprised  
Years ago

I am surprised noone has looked at recruiting from Mildura u14s since both teams won their respective age groups. I noticed u14 g from mt Gambier are playing yet they did not make finals.

Reply #180669 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Mildura may be a bit far - and any kid that is willing to travel all that way would play in the Vic comp (not *much* further to travel), if you look at our results against the Vics (and listen to the pro/rel debates) a much better competition.

Reply #180670 | Report this post




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