Anonymous
Years ago

Restructure Junior Basketball Comp

It's widely held that our district comp is not very competitive with almost all of talented juniors exclusively congregated within two to four clubs.
Clubs like woodville , southern ,wests, souths, centrals and mavericks simply make up the numbers in most divisions with rare exceptions.
Forestville and sturt could play each other each week or include norwood and north in the mix and let the other clubs expire quickly rather than endure the long lingering death they are experiencing now.
It seems stupid that the teams with 8- 10 institute players have to play against teams with no chance of winning or being competitive.They will tell you they get better competition at training.
Pro/rel would result in the same demise so why not just go for it.
Have four district clubs and get rid of the rest of the pretenders because basketball in SA is about club's winning flags not developing players in the name of good competition.

Topic #17105 | Report this topic


Anonymous  
Years ago

Box of tissues?

Reply #201621 | Report this post


LC  
Years ago

Having just a few strong clubs is going to do nothing for improving SA basketball.
Pro/rel is ther way to go, justy as I have clearly stated in previous threads.
It allows teams to play in the most appropruiate division according to their ability. Will potential lead to decreased levels of poaching/transfers from club to club.
Vic moved to pro-rel years ago and it has reinvigorated their rep-ball competition and has since the emergence of many new associations.

Can only do SA basketball a world of good.

Reply #201627 | Report this post


I hate the thought of a promotion/relegation system. If what you say is correct, it will only be the clubs that make up the numbers that will be going up and down between divisions. Clubs should take a look at there results, see what age group they struggle at or if its boys or girls and mabye look at the coaches. The coaches may not be developing their players enough. Maybe they should start looking outside of there own club for coaches, look to those top clubs (i.e. Sturt, Forestville, North) and try and persuade some coaches to come over to their club. I don't think there is a rule against poaching coaches is there ? The top clubs hold coaching clinics for their players during school holiday's, what do the other clubs do ?

Reply #201631 | Report this post


too much sense  
Years ago

LC,

Completely agree.

Will not happen as clubs will lose the luxury of guaranteed div 1 places, and may actually have to put more work into junior development. But they will try to find other ways to ensure they can continue to stay lazy and force players to play for them (zoning).

Of course, using example like the Vic (and to a lesser extent Qld Sth) systems having helped clubs that work hard (even small clubs like McKinnon) won't help - they will turn a blind eye to that!

Reply #201634 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Do we want to do what's best for the sport and the players or do we want to do what is best for underperforming clubs?

If the latter things will remain the same. We must do promotion/relegation for the sake of the game.

Reply #201638 | Report this post


nutter  
Years ago

Jesus,

I agree to an extent but maybe not with the poaching of coaches, clubs can do this to develop there coaches as well as there players. Have senior coaches hold coaching clinics for the junior coaches, yea its takes a bit of time and effort and no you might not get the piece of paper at the end of it but having experianced coaches sharing there knowlage with inexperianced coaches can only benifit the coaches, players and over all the club as well.

As ive said before on this forum the at under 10's and 12's each club basically starts a fresh, barring those existing families. Parents will generally sign there kids up at the closest club. This being said clubs then need to get there butts into gear and start developing these kids from the moment they step in the door because lets face it if someone is playing in a winning team they will have no reason to leave that club be it Sturt, F'ville or Centrals, it won't matter if there team is winning.

The success of a club begins with admin and the coaches and ends with the players.

Reply #201652 | Report this post


Once again another post about pro/rel started with someone not even bothering to get the facts.

Based on Boys Div 1 up to latest round giving teams 10 points for 1st and 1 point for last over all age groups Under 10 to 20 the following is the Club status.

1 Sturt Sabres 56
2 Norwood Flames 36
3 Southern Tigers 33
4 North Adelaide Rockets 29
5 West Adelaide Bearcats 28
6 Forestville Eagles 27
7 Eastern Mavericks 26
8 South Adelaide Panthers 25
9 Woodville Warriors 25
10 Central Districts Lions 12

Yes thats right Southern are 3rd and oh Forestville who you want to play Sturt each week are 6th. Maybe they should withdraw and leave it up to the top 4 Sturt, Norwood, Southern and North.

If we are going to talk about Pro/rel could we please present the facts and base discussion on this. Clubs go through phases and I am sure some of those that have struggled recently are on the way up.

Reply #201671 | Report this post


Long Ha Phatt  
Years ago

Yeah, good stats; I wonder if the womens comp would have made you take your blinkers off!

Reply #201703 | Report this post


Under 16 Parent  
Years ago

Long Ha Platt

I think you have missed the point. Regardless of whether the stats are for Boys or Girls.

The long held belief and purpose of this post was that there are only 2 Clubs worth anything in SA but this is not supported by these in fact it is a great achievement by some of the Clubs that cop a caning on this site.

It would be good to see the Girls Stats.

Reply #201707 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Actually huge differences between clubs just shows that Basketball SA might actually need to spend some time on development of the weaker clubs?

"These are the facts", I have looked at the Boys comps (U10 to U20) and offer the following. The point system is OK, but I have looked at average ladder position.

1. Sturt - 2.65 ave
2. North - 5.04
3. Western - 5.25
4. Southern - 5.44
5. Torresn Valley - 5.50
6. Eagles - 5.62
7. Norwood 5.96
8. Mavs - 6.57
9. South - 7.00
10. Lions - 7.43
11. Woodville - 7.64
12. West - 8.37

The other things to consider are Minor Premierships and Wooden Spoons.

MP's
1. Torrens Valley, Western & Sturt - 25% of all teams are in #1 position.
4th. North - 21.7% of teams

Wooden Spoons:
1. West - 37% of all teams are bottom of their div.
4th. Woodville, Mavs, & Lions - 14% of teams

When you compare the average position at clubs across year groups, Sturt drop off in the U20s, North are weak in U12s, but improve in the older grades, Southern have a blip in U18, Eagles, South and Norwood improve with the age levels, Lions and Woodville look good in U12, then level out, and West are consistent.

IMO, forget about a restructure and pro/rel stuff, provide more assistance with junior development at club level to bring players up to a level. Looks like West and Woodville could pick up some pointers from Sturt and North. The outer metro clubs too.

Reply #201710 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Couple of points:

BSA co-ordinates coaching courses Level 1 etc. The last two have been cancelled effectively delaying by a year training of individuals who want to improve as coaches and help their clubs.

Pro/rel is very complex. One item I have never understood is how do very good players in a poor team develop if the team is relegated to Div 2. Do they then transfer making the task of that team to get back into Div 1 all the more difficult. If restrictions were put in place to stop these kids moving to the best competition then I see issues with losing the best kids to other sports

Reply #201712 | Report this post


emu 64  
Years ago

Average ladder position means nothing unless you consider division played. If Magic's top team is in Div 3 and coming say 4th, that's hardly impressive is it??

Reply #201715 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Only sturt and forestville count, everyone knows it and more importantly the players know that unless you come from these clubs you get nowhere. The Gliddons are sturt and most of the SASI coaches are sturt and forestville have the state country coaches and network.
Surprising things happen for kids out of these clubs
and that's the way it is and it wont change so just live with it or vote with your feet.

Reply #201719 | Report this post


Wam Soosnam  
Years ago

It is not the competition that needs massive restructure. It does need some tweaking, but we have had this format for many years and produced some great basketballers.

Here are my key issues:

1.Lack of infrastructure for clubs.

We sold our assets, to fund the 36ers for a decade, and now BSA has a balance sheet with little to show for 60 years of Trading. Our stadiums are crappy, and we are not seeking partnerships with councils to create more Starplex style facilities.

2. Self Funding Model.

BSA have no plan(because they have no assets to borrow against) to develop facilities that provide the income of 50k per year for each stadium to have a coaching director. There would need to be a pathway for full time work (at close to teachers rates) to attract people to such a position.
Forestville and Sturt who are lucky to be central and in A grade facilities, are the only clubs who have a finance model that allows a fulltime coach ie. Paul and Glen. This is a model that all clubs need but the finances are not available without an income stream.

Deal these two Fundamental issues and most of these pointless debates would evaporate.

Just my opinion though.

Reply #201720 | Report this post


Facts  
Years ago

201719, interestingly 4 boys are going to the September Australian Development camp.

1xSturt, 1xWest, 1xCentrals, 1xNorwood.

So where are your facts?

Reply #201729 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#719,

I guess if you take this to the nth degree anyone playing for another club should pick another sport. Anyway, thanks for the heads up - I will definately direct my kids to AFL.

and the competition will be made up of two teams with half SASI players in each team

Reply #201730 | Report this post


Is all just pure demographics and cash.

If the Gliddons lived in Gawler no doubt SASI trainings and coaches would all be involved with Centrals.

The money is in the Eastern suburbs, its not in the west, south and far north.

SASI & BASA should be held accountable. How long has this been going on people??

You would think with the population of young kids north and south of Adelaide these centres would become a Dandenong ...but they don't have the money and support.

Reply #201735 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Facts, I think you'll find in the girls selected they are all forestville and sturt with the west girl moving to her new club in summer. An aus camper moving to a club with all sasi and state players seems to say it all.

Reply #201750 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So.......you blindly choose to ignore the boys side coz it doesn't suit your argument?

What credibility you have....

Reply #201754 | Report this post


Bill Gates  
Years ago

And this just came in from outside the window...

Maybe the competitions shouldn't be organised by age. Maybe it should be organised on a best-player type basis. For instance, if a club had a total of 96 male players they would be organised into 12 teams of 8 players (up to each club on how many in each squad) based on best in no. 1 team and 'less best' in no. 12 - age does not play a part in this. All the no. 1 teams for each club would play in a division right on down to the last ranked team.

At the end of each season there would not be any pro/rel of teams but of players.

Reply #201756 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

i think we line all kids up from tallest to shortest
and give them a number from 1 -10 and all 10's go to club x etc
if a child grows more than 2cm in a year there is a redraw to stop clubs overfeeding their players with steroid fed chicken

Reply #201758 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

Reply #201783 | Report this post


nutter  
Years ago

for those who wanted to see the average placing for the girls comp is... (only div 1 btw)

1 F'ville 1.67
2 Sturt 2.8
3 North 4.33
4 West 4.4
5 Norwood 4.83
6 Woodville 5.17
7 Eastern 5.33
8 Southern 5.8
9 South 7
10 Centrals 8

Its pretty clear that other than F'ville the rest of the comp is pretty even with only a 3 position difference between 8th and 2nd.

Reply #201787 | Report this post


Boys

Sturt 21 out of 23 in finals at 91% with 7 Top.
Norwood 18 out of 29 in finals at 62% with 1 Top.
Southern 13 out of 22 in finals at 59% with 1 Top.
North 14 out of 26 in finals at 53% with 5 Top.
Eastern 3 out of 7 in finals at 42%
South 10 out of 24 in finals at 41% with 1 Top.
Forestville 10 out of 26 in finals at 38% with 1 Top.
Centrals 2 out of 6 in finals at 33%
West 5 out of 23 in finals at 21%
Woodville 3 out of 16 in finals at 18%

Girls

Sturt 16 out of 19 in finals at 84% with 4 Top.
Forestville 18 out of 23 in finals at 78% with 7 Top.
Centrals 2 out of 3 in finals at 66%
Eastern 3 out of 5 in finals at 60%
North 10 out of 17 in finals at 58% with 1 Top.
Norwood 9 out of 20 in finals at 45%
West 6 out of 16 in finals at 37% with 2 Top.
Southern 5 out of 16 in finals at 31%
South 3 out of 11 in finals at 27%
Woodville 4 out of 12 in finals at 25 %

Overall

Sturt 37 out of 42 in finals at 88% with 11 Top
Forestville 28 out of 49 in finals at 57% with 8 Top
North 24 out of 43 in finals at 55% with 6 Top
Norwood 27 out of 49 in finals at 55% with 1 Top
Eastern 6 out of 12 in finals at 50%
Southern 18 out of 38 in finals at 47% with 1 Top
South 13 out of 35 in finals at 37% with 1 Top
Centrals 4 out of 11 in finals at 36%
West 11 out of 38 in finals at 28% with 2 Top
Woodville 7 out of 28 in finals at 25%

Reply #201797 | Report this post


Hangin Round  
Years ago

West girls are obviously going through a re-building phase (unlike Crows & Power) which means suffering for a while by trying to place a team in Div1 of every age group.
The tough decisions will pay off, but as previously mentioned, when your tallest (and most potential) player 'decides' to move to a stronger club (for development), it is a set-back.
The boys will bounce back next year.
It is a no win situation- if you don't rebuild, you cop the crap that Centrals recieve on here, but if you try to re-build, people put you down for losing.
Another reason for no pro/rel- clubs with 2 teams in Div1 will encourage players over to play Div1, thus delaying improvement of clubs in Div2.

Reply #201801 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hanging Round,

Couldn't your last sentence be controlled my limiting movement after the grading phase?

Reply #201849 | Report this post


Long Ha Phatt  
Years ago

Thanks for that nutter. At least now "these are the facts" & "U16 parent" should hopefully be able to see that only showing one side of the comp was actually giving only HALF of the facts!

Combine the two stats then draw your conclusions from there.

Reply #201855 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Now all you stat people go back and run them again for only div 1 where it counts

Reply #201866 | Report this post


DaddyO  
Years ago

Probably "% in finals" is a week early - there are a few tables with uneven byes that will change & there's also one minor round game to go.

#201866 - the thread is about the structure of the competition, not how your team is going in Div 1.

Reply #201874 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

#201866 your argument is the start of all things wrong is basketball!! div 1 isnt all that matters!
Many players work their way up through divisions as they develop mentally and physically.
If clubs ignore the "lower" divisions and only develop div 1 kids a lot of talent will disappear into the background!!!

Reply #201926 | Report this post




You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.



Close ads
Little Streaks - The fun and interactive good-habits app designed especially for kids.
Serio: Tourism photography and videography

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 8:11 pm, Tue 19 Mar 2024 | Posts: 968,026 | Last 7 days: 754