sps
Years ago

Distributing the wealth - Lightning players

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on where WNBL and NBL players end up in the local comp. Seems with the women that they always tend to head to top-ranked teams, leaving struggling teams, such as Centrals and Woodville, to struggle even more.
There's rumours that Norwood have picked up the services of two more Lightning players to join Jess Foley, which, I'm sorry, just has all the signs of buying a flag. I'm all for a team like Sturt to be stacked with WNBL talent as that's where the majority started their careers, but seems unfair for two or three clubs to be stacked with Lightning players they have had no prior affiliations with.
I also find it interesting that Norwood has gone from one Lightning player to three since Valk has been coaching...hrm. Is she encouraging players to go there or pure coincidence? Interesting times ahead.
I'm not sure that 'distributing the wealth' and having incoming recruits go to clubs without Lightning players is necessarily the answer, as that may not be in the best interest of the recruits' development, but surely something a little more fair than what is happening now is in order.

Topic #18602 | Report this topic


Isaac  
Years ago

At some point, wasn't there a rule about number of restricted players per team?

Reply #219289 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Completely agreed. ABA coaches are asked not to talk to national league players during the season so they can concentrate on their commitments, however those who abide by the rules seem to be burnt time after time, as by the time they are allowed to speak with players, they have already been snaffled by other clubs... whats the go?

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Dog 81  
Years ago

The sanfl has a 'draft' system where incoming interstate players (ie, those new draftees to the power/crows from interstate) are re-drafted to an sanfl club.

This type of system wouldn't be too hard to organise or implement for basketball, would it?

Reply #219293 | Report this post


anon  
Years ago

same old same - if clubs were attractive to players then they'd go there
if norwood appeals at the moment - then whats the gripe centrals / weoodville got to get competitive and present attractive option to these players
work harder
if rules getting broken then that needs addressing but if players are choosing certain clubs over others end of arguement
push on build a bridge

Reply #219295 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

Cayla Francis would be handy.
My favourite player, at the moment.
(Like Brogan was for many years, and Hodge is in NBL)

Reply #219298 | Report this post


sps  
Years ago

It's all well and good to say 'build a bridge', but let's be realistic, there's no way a Centrals is going to be competitive against a Norwood with three Lightning players by simply 'working harder'. It would appear a system similar to the SANFL would work well, so why hasn't one been adopted? Centrals has been struggling for years, and to a lesser extent Woodville some years, and nothing has been done apart from Centrals being handballed Erin Phillips for two games last season, which was a joke - and reportedly a $10K joke at that. I remember Woodville had a Lightning player for a silly season a few years back, but from memory she didn't play main season, or if she did, it was only for a season.
At the end of the day, it is only going to make the league more competitive. And if that's the case, it would be interesting to see who has a 'gripe' with that...hrm.

Reply #219299 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

Completely agree with a SANFL type system.

If a player comes through the ranks of underage at Club X and plays for Lightning, then should stay at Club X.

Interstate player comes into the state and needs a ABA team, then draft should occur like the SANFL with the bottom team having first go. However, if they have their quota of allocated players, then next team up etc until they are all placed.

However, the old ego does get in the way a bit at times. There would be some who would want to "coast" with a strong team rather than accept the challenge of healpign build up a weaker team.

Having 2 super teams, 4 average teams and 4 scruffy teams makes a boring competition though if the wealth is not dispersed.

Reply #219300 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

For all you Poindexters out there:
ABA women between 1957 and 2008...

North Adelaide 20 GF W, 18 RU in GF
West Adelaide 7/8
Forestville/WT 5/8
Norwood 4/5
Noarlunga City 4/4
Vikings 4/2 (they plundered well!)
Sturt 4/1
Glenelg 2/1
South 1/2
Adelaide 1/1
K-Jets 0/1 (yo, we rock this house)
Woodville 0/1

Centrals 0/0
Eastern Mavs 0/0
Southern Tigers 0/0

May I suggest that the outer Metro three would do well with a Lightning player?

PS I think Erin only played 1 game for the Lions and doubt strongly if $10K was paid to her for one game

Reply #219303 | Report this post


sps  
Years ago

Noice work on the stats. From memory, I think Centrals and Erin agreed on $10K, with them pulling a 'swifty', claiming she was an assistant coach as well as a player so they could up the $$, so not sure what she got paid in the end.
Anyway, that is a litttle off topic.

Reply #219306 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The appealing thing about Norwood at the moment is that there coach is also helping out with the Lightning. He spoke with a couple of other girls in the Lightning team, imagine if they went there as well.
Williams, Foley, Woosnam, Duke, Truslove.

Reply #219307 | Report this post


hustle  
Years ago

I agree with the spreading of players.

However, I think we should all consider living arrangements for these people. Personally, I would join the closest most successful club near where I live.

For some of the new players, playing in areas far outside the city may not be a viable option. (Who knows, maybe all of them live in Norwood!?)

Reply #219308 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

On the men's results:
1957 - 2008

West Adelaide 14/11 (will Davo make it 15 soon?)
South Adelaide 10/7
North Adelaide 5/4
Forestville/WT 4/11
Sturt 4/5
Noarlunga 3/2
ASK 2/3
Glenelg 2/3
Budapest 2/2
Norwood 2/1
Centrals 1/0
Eastern 1/0
Murray Bridge 0/2

Southern Tigers 0/0

Reply #219309 | Report this post


Skin  
Years ago

I think it would be fantastic for the league, and give the struggling teams some hope

Reply #219310 | Report this post


sps  
Years ago

#219307, very interesting. I really hope that Norwood doesn't win the flag if that's the case. That's very poor and unprofessional on Norwood and the Lightning's behalf. Nothing like politics in sport.
From what I understand, Williams and Duke have already moved across to Norwood.

Reply #219311 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

SPS,
without seeing a contract we won't know for sure how much she was actually paid.

Reply #219312 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think thats why Amanda Williams is heading to Norwood. To further her chances of playing more court time with the Lightning next season.

Reply #219313 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Jack

Glenelg became Noarlunga City and really should be considered as one, no different from Forestville and West Torrens. Some might suggest Southern is a combination of Adelaide, Noarlunga City and Glenelg.

Reply #219314 | Report this post


DoTheSums  
Years ago

The struggling clubs - Southern, CEntrals and Eastern are in demographics that basketball should be promoting. Young families in booming, growing suburbs. A lightning player or 2 may help a little bit. I know Phillips did some clinics at Starplex last yr.

Reply #219321 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If an integrity clause was part of the job description for coaching how many would have a job.

Reply #219322 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Erin was paid separately for those clinics. They were not part of Centrals

Reply #219324 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

ever think they may want to go there for higher coaching, its the wnbl offseason so of course they are going to go where they can get the best coaching, no offence, but who from the lighting realistically is oging to want to go play for centrals? for one they dont win, and two they are so far away and three, theyre probably not going to learn anything!

Reply #219326 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

314,
I had considered that. Forestville and West Torrens was more of a name change than a merger (??) whereas the Glenelg / Noarlunga thing was a bit more complicated and I am sure there would be a few pundants who consider them separate clubs.

I am an old Brisbane fancier myself after living in that State for a time, to me, Fitzroy died, there's no flaming Brisbane-Fitzroy nonsense - that's just the Vics trying to keep a ghost alive!

I barrack for 3 teams in the AVFL: Crows, Brissy, and whoever is playing Collingwood (even if that is Port!)

Reply #219327 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Jack Toft ...... interesting that Woodville never won the mens' comp, nor finished runner-up. But maybe I'm mistaken ..... ;-)

Reply #219344 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

Now, I think you are right, Moses.
I seem to recall most of those West and South ones.
But I only think there was a Woodville, not sure.

Would Cayla Francis play in local comp. ?

Reply #219348 | Report this post


bolks  
Years ago

Call me stupid but how are "ASK", "Budapest", the "Vikings" and the "K-Jets" ??

Reply #219351 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

That's ok. I was around watching ASK play. That's how old I am. And Budapest became Norwood around that time. And, there was United Church that became Sturt.
And a CY , Catholic youth that became.. mmmm Centrals , I think........

Reply #219354 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

That was 40 years ago. I remember some of it.

Reply #219357 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

CY became Glenelg, Glenelg became Noarlunga

yes Jack you seem to forget Woodville's two championships over forestville plus their loss to Eastern but maybe that is just Moses Guthries and my bad memory;)

Reply #219360 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

Some hoops posters were playing in those games, that I was watching, 40 years ago. Which is great.

Reply #219361 | Report this post


Jack Toft  
Years ago

360,
That was just my typo:

errata

Woodville 2/1

Reply #219363 | Report this post


MC  
Years ago

So is Norwood becoming the female equivalent of the Sturty6ers???

Reply #219369 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

would it be of an advantage to basketball and the player if a player like mia newley was to go to woodville?

of course valk and norwood will pull the lightning girls - watch and new guns go to canberra if graf still coaches there.


Reply #219370 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

distribute the wealth - yes no problems robin hood ! )

Reply #219371 | Report this post


.  
Years ago

foley will be stateside at another wnba camp anyway

Reply #219373 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Reply #219377 | Report this post


Phizzer  
Years ago

These players want to use the ABL season to work on their game. If clubs don't have a suitabley experienced coach and decent enough team mates, how will that help your game?

Somelike Erin could play anywhere, but a bench Lightning player wants development and strong team mates. Forcing them into a lower quality team could hurt their development and improvement opportunities.

And yes Isaac, I think there is (was) a rule about how many WNBL players you could suit, although might be restricted to starters?

Reply #219387 | Report this post


NorwyLightning  
Years ago

One major difference, MC. Sturt produce 36ers players, Norwood attract Lightning players!

Reply #219388 | Report this post


Page  
Years ago

I heard Cayla Francis is playing SEABL in Victoria in the WNBL offseason; with the Lori Chizik coached Sandringham Sabres.

Reply #219390 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

mmmm . Interesting. Thanks for that Page.
Shame we couldn't do something for her here in SA.

Reply #219391 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Phizzer,
I don't think all 'good players' could go to other clubs and make a difference because most are dependent on having better players around them. The best players would make a difference to any club but in women's basketball there are an increasing number of players who are receivers and they wouldn't get their hands on the ball if they had to do more of the work.
Re, the rise in 'talent' going to Norwood, seems part of the keep South Australian basketball uncompetitive through short term club success. Would be so much better for everyone if rules were in place to foster competition. 3 or 4 teams sharing domination as their contacts or cheque books dictate is not competition.
Basketball's such a small sport here that it is dominated by amateur entrenched leadership when its crying out for professional guidance.

Reply #219401 | Report this post


AK-47  
Years ago

IMO the "SANFL Draft System" wouldnt work. I believe players would be upset with not being able to choose where they wanted to play and would probably look to play somewhere else thus SA seeing a decline of players from the national comp.

Although player loyalty may be minimal this would also prevent some players from returning to their junior clubs.

Reply #219407 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

distribute the wealth - yes no problems robin hood ! )
Well, the Robin Hood is in the Norwood area.

AK-47, I agree with that. Players may go for loyalty, development opportunity and money. Centrals were harshly criticised by some for trying to buy in Phillips, and they won't be able to bring home Lions or offer much in the way of development to Lightning players, unfortunately.

Reply #219428 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Better to have upset players in a stronger comp than fat cats in a weak one

Reply #219430 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Unless half of them go and play in a different league? It's like the concept of an NBL draft - not enough money in the league to put demands on players. Bit much to tell a player living Northish to play for Southern, or vice versa, when they may only be getting petrol money, right?

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Camel 31  
Years ago

Right Isaac and anon

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Mantis  
Years ago

bolks, "ASK" was the "Adelaide Sports Klub", a team of immigrant Latvians. They later became "Adelaide Latvian" then "Adelaide Giants" before merging with Southern Districts to become the "Adelaide Southern Suns", and then merging with Noarlunga to become today's "Southern Tigers". This is the source of the maroon stripe in the current Southern uniform, it is the maroon from the Latvian flag.

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Jack Toft  
Years ago

thanks Mantis, very helpful.

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the clarifier  
Years ago

The restricted player rule is:

Restricted: any player that playes more than 12 minutes/games at the WNBL Level (30% of the teams game time)
Restricted: Any player that is not recognised as an australian citizen (exception: foreign players that moved here before the age of 15,i think, and have lived in australia since then)

Each ABA Team is allowed 2 restricted players;

Each Central ABA Team (SA Only) is allowed 2 restricted players of which only 1 can be an import player.

Reply #219470 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Given all the dramas with the sixers, I'd check to see if Hodge has signed at Norwood too

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Williams is crap, she would have been better to stay with mavs and look good because she sure as hell isnt going to look good at Norwood. She is too old and will never cut it in the big league. She is kidding herself if she thinks its going to make a diffrence,. As soon as Valk gets a stronger point she is out of there!!! Thank god

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plasma  
Years ago

i don't think williams is a particularly good WNBL player but I think she is a very good ABL player...

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go go  
Years ago

she will kick ass

Reply #228300 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

She wont get on the court with Romeo pulling the pin on college - too tough for her

Reply #228309 | Report this post


allo allo  
Years ago

romeo to seabl ??

Thats my mail.

Reply #228323 | Report this post




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