Beat me to the post...

I'm glad he has spoken out about the NBL - he has used some of his own cash to help keep the Sydney Spirit going last season despite the fact they were always going to fold for next season.

If only we heard something from the NBL...now that's another story.

I just hope that when the NewBL gets up and running thast we have enough talent left in the country to have a tough competition - I wouldn't begrudge any of the top level Aussie talent trying their luck in Europe due to the high amount of uncertainty surrounding the new league - and when it may actually get up ansd running - if at all!

mmm that's what I've been saying all along they need to get a 'whole' new crew in admin...and stop all that politics within clubs. I've never seen so much politics in my life in basketball

That's all well and good, but until someone comes up with a magic wand solution where they can just wave it for that to happen in the blink of an eye, I think some of the comments he has made are not only a little late (could've been said long before the reform process when it was taking so long just to get clubs to agree that things needed to change) but a little mis-informed about how long it takes for an organisation to completely revamp it's product.

The NBL are finally listening to, and implementing the feedback they have been given and now that they are trying to work through the multitude of things that need to be implemented, people are kicking them.
I think people including Bogut need to have a bit more respect for how much is going on behind the scenes here- his comments are a bit disrespectful.
All it has done is raise the awareness level of reform going through, nothing more.

Player numbers/quality is a real concern. With no one sure what is happening I would expect a lot to look at Europe contracts.

once again I'm fully with Bogut on this one, a league where you just can't see no effort do not need respect. Does he still support the league? Yeah, or he wouldn't be handing out cash...I've always found it ridiculous with all the involvement in basketball and NBL still can't get going.

Once again, product is good. My feeling has been the problem is NBL and they're just not admitting it by blaming on the product. I've worked in this sport around the globe (including the NBA) and seeing so many players and is confident NBL has the product but not the management.

I don't think Bogut is fully in a position to make a comment like that. His professional basketball life has been overseas and he could not possibly appreciate what is happening here. His commitment to the NBL by handing over some of his own cash to help Sydney Spirit is admirable but he cannot fully understand the problems here when he is not an active part of it.

yeah it's easy to throw your 5 cents in when your sitting pretty on the otherside of the world. If you aren't part of the solution, your part of the problem.
Props for him chucking cash in last season

LA Boy, you said "I've never seen so much politics in my life in basketball"

You obviously aint walked into Pasadena lately!

Boom, boom.

I think Bogut has every right to say what he said. He hasn't told any fibs or lied. Bogut has come out and stated what everyone on this site has said/thought of beforehand, and maybe just because it is Andrew Bogut that is saying it, the more important people may actually listen.

Of course he can understand the problem, I will put money on it that he has more inside information than 99% people. He's taken an interest in the league, otherwise he wouldn't off coughed up $30k. He identified the problems in an interview 3 or 4 years ago, and no-one listened or paid attention then, and people chose to cut down the tall poppy and bag the bloke.

I fail to see how Bogut is part of the problem mystro. I didn't see any other player pull $30k out of their pocket to support a franchise (not counting the poor guys from Cairns that all took pay cuts to play). What do you want the guy to do?? Finance the whole league??

The product is very good, the management is absolutely terrible. Regardless of how good your product is, it's not really going to sell itself, this is where management has failed. NBL Management haven't promoted their product, thus professional basketball is in the sorry state of affairs it's now in.

I'm with TR...pretty much right on the money.

i don't mind TR's post but my question is where do people think the PR/marketing mix belongs to in terms of responsibility.

Does it lie with the league, does it lie with the clubs...who does what?

Start with this:

should merchandising be centralized or localized?
should ticketing be centralized or localized?
should TV be centralized or localized?

should these things or others be a mix? In the past in the NBL you have so many clubs who wanted to pay the team, pay airfares and then do nothing else....so they did not want to pay the league to market.

Those clubs can hardly blame the league for failing to market.

On the other hand some clubs have done a great job locally, perhaps better than the NBL could have done, but still failed to fill stadiums consistently...dragons comes to mind.

So where does the responsibility lie, because its either decentralized or centralized for each function, you cannot have a mix within a key delivery area IMO.

Starts at the top HO...the NBL have shown no leadership or provided any direction whatsoever. It has basically been a rudderless league, letting the teams pretty much do what they want and fend for themseleves.

Good point.
And now that things like marketing etc will finally be centralised, thereby providing consistency for customers to have the same attention given to them as other clubs and the same experience, this is one area of many that the League are working on setting up.
Naturally, marketing is just one aspect of many they have to sort out.
In the past you're right- some clubs wanted to run themselves with an iron fist in terms of how they wanted to be structured- is it any wonder there is so much inconsistency between teams?
IMO, it never should've been allowed to run like that- it should all be centralised and all fans/ customers should have the same experience across the country irrespective of what team they support.

I do have good feeling that if the deal with ONE is down pat, that'll be a BIG move for the league. With that'll attract merchandize, sponsorships etc.

And I do think the league should be blamed for not making this move for so long.

A question just popped to my mind:

"has the front office (NBL) actually made ANY changes to help improve the league? say in the last decade?"

I haven't been here for that long so I'm just wondering.

IMO the marketing of the NBL (and the new version) belongs with both the league and the club, but with different outcomes and priorities. Clubs just can't let the NBL market for them. People don't want to see some peanut in a suit from the NBL HQ, they want to see the players. The players will be the face of the new league. The clubs need the NBL HQ to promote and market the league in a proper fashion.

The club is required for grass-roots/community marketing, and also club marketing. Clubs should be getting out to the schools, community centers, meet-and-greets etc etc. They need to be seen in the community. Clubs need to hold school holiday clinics. Marketing and PR go hand-in-hand. The Clubs need to find new supporters, and the easiest way is to target the younger generations. I still remember school visits by 36ers of old. Not sure if it happens these days. Who knows, maybe that school visit today will lead to a major sponsor, or season ticket holder down the track.

The NBL has a responsibility to market the league to everyone. The NBL has done a poor job of marketing the league fullstop. Would the average punter be able to name 5 NBL teams?? I bet they could name 5 AFL and 5 NRL teams before naming 5 NBL teams. To the outsider the NBL doesn't exist.

so LC, has it been the case of the NBL letting the clubs do whatever they want... or the clubs saying to the NBL we are doing this our own way....when you consider the personalities I'd suggest that its been the other way around.

I know for a fact that back in Bill Palmer's time the NBL tried to get control of league merchandising (for example) but the clubs resisted that.

so perhaps its not all the league's fault...although I understand that its easy to blame them. My view is that the league has been a lame duck for some time, with little power to rattle the cages and make real change...hamstrung by powerful (seamus?) or financial (eddie) type owners....so perhaps this review helps that significantly.

Agree with many of the things you mention HO, and it was certainly a combination of both - but...

Ultimately the NBL's administrators and management have been well short of the mark. They lacked leadership qualities, provided little direction and most importantly didn't have the balls to stand up and take action (whether the action be right or wrong in anyone's elses eyes). The league's governing body had no spine, no backbone and ended up being the "lame duck" as you put as a result of their own ineptitude.

Give an inch and the club's took a mile (at least some of them).

You could go right back to Rick Burton when things started to unwind.

As many others have said, the value proposition has been great (the actual basketball), however the value communication (marketing) has been exceptionally poor from the NBL admin level, but also at club level.

Engaging the grass roots level is a big key - and most clubs have moved so far away from this over the past 10 years it has no doubt contributed to the problems the league has been encountering.

TR, I agree the players are the face of the league and should be out promoting it but its just not happening. Players are happy to take their salaries which although only occupy themselves for 6 months of the year, whilst earning more than the annual average salary in this country, they do not give anything back in the 6 months of the off season. They choose to go spend their time playing in other leagues and earning even more money, or use the time to visit family interstate or overseas or whatever leisure activities they choose to do. I personally think that players should be the face of the club for a full 12 months of the year less 4 weeks annual leave like everyone else in other industries and spend the off season promoting the league.

EC- not sure about things in other states but I can say Tigers hold junior camps, Dragons have players visiting local clubs etc. However, in both cases the event was very under promoted. Don't think there were any ads other than their club website. Going to schools? I "think" they've done that too last year.

Whilst I agree with everything people's said above: no backbone etc. NBL needs a Nazi to run the place (maybe that is too extreme but you get the idea).

Another thought while on topic of promotion, should they actually try to promote individuals more as oppose to the WHOLE team from 1~12? It seems to me like they lack a "core" like Lakers have Kobe to be the face of their franchise. When you look at teams in the NBA that are not making money are the one without a legit face for the franchise (Atlanta, Memphis, Sacromento etc.)

Here they can have eg. Barlow and Anstey as the face for the Tigers

How many players do you know that actually want to have to 'work' for a full year for a full year's pay?
From the ones I know, not really any once you get to know some of them well enough.
It is the first stepping stone though to keeping fans and sponsors engaged, but has a lot to do with why some guys want to go elsewhere next season, irrespective of whether there is reform or not.

The success of the league will largely depend on the attitudes of the players.

Are there 'core' players in the NBL worth promoting??

The better players are American and usually here for a short time, and the young guys seem to be looking overseas and at brighter lights??

In todays game there are no Andrew Gazes, Leroy Loggings or Ricky Graces (eg genuine good and some of the best players the NBL has ever seen). Worthington is known as a punk, Anstey is known as a whinging b*tch or Mr Cheapshot. Both great players, but have their issues. The closest player recently has been Brett Maher, and he's now gone. Would the average Joe Citizen even know who Damien Martin or Adam Caporn are, or even who James Harvey or Glen Saville are??

This is where good television advertising helps. You show some spectacular scenes of games over exaggerating dunks, 3 point shots and alley oops whilst announcing the names of the players in the scenes, ie Adam Ballinger of the Adelaide 36ers, CJ Bruton of New Zealand Breakers, Chris Anstey of the Melbourne Tigers etc and then they come on and promote what the viewer has just seen. By dong this, you show snippets of games and you put names to the players involved. This can then extend even further to advertisers of other companies' products in using the players to promote their products, like the Gillete commercial where they use Roger Federer, Tiger Woods and Thierry Henry. It makes the names of the players household names and then an interest is generated in going to the games not necessarily because of the game but because people want to see these players in action. The sports that attract people are the ones where that names of players are known and this needs to be promoted.

EC that's exactly what my thoughts are. Sports like swimming (no disrespect) where Rice is so big, it really is all media; she's very good no doubt about that but for her to get all the fame and popularity from a "one off" event (I know swimming have many championships a year) it's all just TV and news.

Imagine if the NBL guys had same type of media coverage, guys like Barlow'd be just as big...if not more since you'll be able to see them more in action

Swimming is a sport at which Australia excels internationally. While our women do very well in basketball, the men don't have the same profile.

Julius was starting to get a lot of media coverage , and becoming well known, with people going to see him play, and about to break a lot of NBL records.
Brett Maher - this season, rightly attracted media and the crowd.
Erin Phillips- known by every South Australian.

Now they are gone.

Luke Schenscher is well known, both for his ability and appearance , which is used a bit in media.
But he'll be gone too.
Basketball ( both mens and womens ) would do well with Erin Phillips playing in SA, and involved in media promotion etc.

I really think that's all it's about. media with them, they'll get big no matter what really. may basketball needs to have some "naughty" boys to start commit crime and gain popularity that way...

With the swimming comment, yeah I know how big swimming is in Australia. Ian Thorpe's my favourite! But I was just trying to say a sport like swimming really don't compete anywhere near as long as basketball but their athletes do better publicly purely due to media attention.

The quality of the athlete from both sport? Remember Aus basketball ranked #2 internationally! My opinion Aus Swimming will be about same rank in the world today too!

a lot of this is pretty glib. here's a question, and despite me not thinking the a-league has a great future, how has the melbourne victory garnered the "tribalism" that has made their crowds outstrip everyone else in the league by 10-13k per game?

Has the league marketing done this? has the club done it? were the circumstances just ripe for victory's popularity to explode in melbourne?

because that is what will make and break NewNBL IMO - a level of tribal type support for each team that makes home games a 'can't miss' scenario - it won't be cheerleaders or sponsor promotions or derby games - it will be creating a desire in the public to support their team, not just "watch the basketball"

LA Boy, I suspect the networks virtually invest in the swimming talent - getting them on board and then running with them in everything - co-hosting shows, partnering with corporates, etc. Swimming, cricket, AFL - they're 'Australian' sports while basketball (unfortunately) just isn't.

HO, what do you think brought them that tribal attraction? (You know what would bring that? Rivalries based on ethnicity!)

Actually isaac the Victory are pretty much devoid of that stuff. No one looks at the a-league in the way they used to look at the nsl...where Kinghts where linked to this group and "hellas" was pretty bloody obvious. One of the things the a-league has done well is largely remove the ethnicity issues that blurred the NSL so badly.

I have no idea how the Victory built their tribalism, but having been to a number of games, admitedly from the comfort of the medallion club, their crowd is a broad cross section .... lads, families, plenty of female supporters....it looks much more like an AFL crowd than an old NSL crowd.

Their crowd is loud, but not necessarily bad.