Its extremely disappointing that the State Government won't give some financial assistance. It absolutely sickens me to think that they would allow the 36ers to die rather than inject some life back into them.

"The 36ers have a proud history in South Australia, culminating in four premierships, and we look forward to members of the local business community getting behind the team," Sports Minister Michael Wright said. Yeah the government has every right to be proud whilst refusing assistance and watching the team disappear, how pathetic can you get. It is particularly annoying because the government gives financial assistance to other sports. I have a passing interest only in football and went to the showdown tonight. When I was told that the Footy Express bus was free and partly funded by the State Government, it pissed me off. I would rather have paid for my ticket. Not only does the State Government refuse assistance but the Local Government is also out to make things difficult by placing a caveat on the Dome and not allowing it to be used for non sporting events. The Dome with the freedom to be used without restriction would be a much more appealing investment and anyone with the money to buy both the Team and Venue could offset some of the losses from the team by the income on the venue.

Basketball is not a high priority for Media Mike it seems.

Shadow boxing will bikies seems more his bag

also think its a case of once bitten twice shy, with the state government

Ah well, it was fun while it lasted. Those two back to back premierships were awesome.

ABL, here I come.

Pathetic that the government won't help at all. They only need one or two more investors. You'd think with all the free money flying around at the moment they could contribute to something useful!

On the other hand, surely it couldn't be too hard to find one or two smaller investors to complete the guarantee? What happened to prominent SA sports people that make the bigger $$ that supposedly take an interest in supporting SA teams? I'm sure Lleyton Hewitt or maybe a couple of current or past footballers or even basketballers could put their money where their mouths are! Cairns and Wollongong got financial support when it looked like they had no chance and Adelaide supposedly has the biggest fanbase for basketball in the league. Now it's time to prove it.

Good article summarising the situation. I think Phil is spot on with his comments on the need for FTA-TV and his philosophy on the need to take a step backwards (Semi-Pro / ABL) before the game can move forward.

Hmmm - I've never been hot on governments bailing gout private enterprise, whether it's a sporting franchise or another private sector enterprise.

When it has been done, the public interst argument for doing so is usually preservation of a local industry or of significant numbers of local jobs that are at risk. It's hard to see that rationale being argued successfully here. This is particularly so when the State government has already decided to cut 400 jobs in the State health system and significant numbers of jobs in the education system.

We had the same government defunding CARA a couple of years ago, when it had cash flow problems. If they were preared to ante up money to prop up the 36ers after these sorts of steps, as a taxpayer I'd be pretty pissed off that they couldn't have done it for CARA and the health system. And I like basketball and the 36ers - imagine what the taxpayers who don't would think.

The other complication tht I imagine the government has is that there is no compelling reason to believe that the 36ers will be a viable business, playing in the NBL. However, there is material reason to believe it won't be. As stated by Smyth in the link, the business has been struggling for 5-7 years. There were cash flow problems that led to at least one of the half time entertainment acts being cancelled during the past season (according to what I was told by the people in the act). Neither current ownership nor prospective owners can find the reserves needed to ensure the medium term viability of the business.

In these circumstances, the State Govenrment would be looking 1-2 years down the track and wondering how much it will be asked for then.

I just think this is the harsh truth about this situation.

Anon, its the same article isn't it?

What is it with State Governments doing this?
In Brisbane they had the same thing, although the Bullets were the ONLY Brisbane represented sporting team to NOT get any state funding- the Broncos, Lions, Reds and Roar all receive significant contributions year after year after year- even the womens netball team get State funding!

HAHA - I don't know the ownership details for the teams you mention but I suspect that, as stated by an earlier poster, it's about community ownership versus private ownership. It's easier for a government to defend handouts of taxpayers' money to community organisations or clubs than to companies. Especially companies often owned or identified with individuals who may not be particularly popular with many of the taxpayers concerned. e.g., Tim Johnston and Eddie Groves.

I would have thought its quite a simple decision for the government (or any other 'investor' -

If the 6ers are a viable organisation - ie have a plan in place that shows they will be profitable and therefore self supporting - then a financial injection from the government would be easy to justify.

If the 6ers are non viable - ie forward projections show they will not be profitable and will actually lose money going forward - then why should the government (or anyone) put money forward.

The simple equation in business to survive long term is income MUST be greater than expenditure - until something is done with the whole league so it CAN sustain itself and cover its own costs without the need for constant bailouts from rich benefactors then noone will be able to move forward and we are just wasting everyones time.

My take on government support is that, if they are a viable commercial proposition, then the private sector should provide the investment. That's one of the tenets of free enterprise, as opposed to the government investment model. The latter practice received a very bad time from the experiences of WA Inc, which illustrated that politicians are poor investment managers.

Another problem with the current investment climate and 36ers is that future player payments probably will be higher than in the past (substantially increased salary cap should put upward pressure on salaries? - depends on how much players were already being paid above the old cap?). So any existing viability problems are magnified in the future.

I said this in some other thread, government don't put enough money in basketball! can you guys petition or something

Peter, I don't agree with your comment about taxpayers who don't support basketball being pissed off with government funds going to basketball. I can give you a list as long as my arm showing where my tax dollars are going and yet I have no interest nor benefit from these tax payer funded schemes. Its all about fairness and giving something to everyone. Its not about continuously pouring in money like pre private ownership days. Its just getting them over the line with the guarantee. I think its enough that basketball is a heavily participated sport at junior level and there is a need for a progression trail at professional level for those who are ambitious enough. You will find that a lot of the junior coaches are actually players of ABA teams. There would be a connection between young players reaching ABA level. From there, there is still another rung up the ladder to NBL. As a government, you should not be removing these opportunities. As Australians, there is always a lot of national and international pride in competition, don't kill it.

Further to EC's post, many jobs will be lost or significantly compromised. Surely that, in the current economic climate, is enough to warrant some type of government committment to the 36ers.

Perhaps the question by the journos at the Sunday Mail (if it hasn't already been put)to Michael Wright should be "Has the 36ers organisation provided the State Government with the appropriate documentation for the government to consider providing assistance? I suspect it hasn't.

Finally how many 6ers fans are now re-considering how they should/should have spent their nine hundred dollar tax bonus from the Federal Government? Imagine if just over a thousand people committed their stimulus bonus to saving the 36ers(and a 'free' season ticket)

Has a process been set up for even that to be possible or has the organisaton simply put all its efforts into finding a handful of investors? Again I suspect its only the latter. I'd love the chance to have a bumper sticker that says "I'm an owner of the 36ers".

A government guarantee does not mean the government would have to physically hand over the money. They would only be saying that any money owed if the club did fold would be paid by the guarantor (in this case the government) The investors would be putting up the money for the day to day running of the club, player fees, rent of the Dome ect.If for example the club folded in the second half of the season it might mean only $80,000 of player fees were outstanding. If they have the support of the season ticket holders and sponsors for the season there would be no reason the government should have to be asked to pay anything

Big Ads- its not that simple to have hundreds of small investors involved. Australia's company laws don't allow that without a detailed costly prospectus being issused. By having a small number of larger investors they can avoid those costs. When Cairns got help from the community they asked for donations not an investment money

Hmmm - I can't imagine many 10 year olds ceasing to play basketball because the 36ers aren't there any more. It's an interesting thesis and should be possible to test by looking at basketball participation by age in Tasmania before tand after the demise of the Devils. The ABS survey of partiicpation in sport should contain data on that. Anonymous - if you feel so strongly, it might be worth hunting out those data and critically analysing them to build an evidence base that supports what you're saying. Providing that sort of data to the media and 36ers' ownership (or potential ownership) might help tham to argue the case with the government. It would certainly make it harder for the government to resiist, as it would be consistent with government rhetoric about evidence based policy making.

EC - you refer to "not about continuously pouring money in like pre private ownership days". I'm not sure that it isn't like that at all. As per my second post, I don't see the cost of running the team going down and I don't know how the revenue will increase to not only cover that higher operating cost but also cover whatever losses are made under the current operating model. In other threads, Isaac referred to some large annual losses on an ongoing basis, for anyone owning the 36ers (I think it was $300,000 to $500,000 but may be off by $100,000). I am not close enough to know personally but it seemed a widely accepted view, judging from the thread's responses. If that's the outlook, then I can't see anything but ongoing requirement for financial support. Either the (current or prospective) owners can afford to cover such ongoing losses or they can't. If they can, why are they having such difficulty getting a bank guarantee so hard? Another way to look at it is, if the bank won't extend the guarantee (presumably because they think the risk is too high and the security inadequate), why should the government?

And I know what you mean about the list of things that we, as taxpayers, fork out for with little or no say and through which we receive little or no benefit. You may be right - maybe all those people who don;t care much for the 36ers also won't care whether they get some taxpayers' money. And, as fan posted, maybe there's no money that has to be paid out at all - until the 36ers (or the new NBL?) go broke and the creditors have to be paid. The only precedent I can think of (at the moment) for bailing out a private company in this sort of way is when John Howard's brother's company went broke a few years back and got some money from the government to pay out staff's entitlements. Anyone have any others?

Here's a thought, maybe the 36ers should try one of the industry assistance schemes operated by (State and) Federal governments? I don;t know if there are any for which they may qualify, but it may be worth considering?

It might be that the Dome would sit there empty for a while , as the income from under 10s etc. may not cover the costs of opening ,upkeep, management etc.

Don't be so sure Peter.
As a product of a successful club that is now defunct, I know of kids who used to play basketball and no longer do since they folded.
I know of one lady who had to take their 11 yr old son for counselling for some weeks after- he still refuses to play or follow basketball until he gets his team back.
I only know that because she was one of the staff that serves me where I'd get my lunch in the CBD in Brisbane and it was a random conversation that came up in passing at the time.
I'm not going to assume she is the only parent of a child in the country's 3rd largest city who is disillusioned- she's just one particular example I know of.

EC, it really annoys me when people expect the Government to step in and bail out PRIVATE BUSINESSES.
I own a business and employ staff, should I expect tax payers to bail me out should my business go belly up ?

If this new consortium is only needing another 200k maybe you should mortgage the house... Surely there must be plenty of people jumping at the chance to throw $200k into an organisation as a minor shareholder and have no say on what happens within it.
If the current owner isn't willing to offer any of his personal wealth as security it doesn't paint a very good picture to anyone who hasn't seen the books.
I think 200k worth of mixed lollies might be a better investment. At least you'd be buying into something that has some sort of appeal to the general public.
It's pretty hard to sell something that nobody wants.

Look at the millions the government has spent on football and and infrastructure around AAMI and exclusively for AAMI stadium. And what's all that I read in the paper about "Port Power's cash crisis being 'overwhelming'" (Advertiser p76 today).
It annoys me immensley when I see the money thrown at football in this state, and the government a no show for basketball. I guess it depends on where they see their votes coming from.

HAHA - I believe what you're saying about some kids dropping basketball because their favourite club is gone. My difficulty is in accepting that the numbers would be enough to argue that the sport as a whole would suffer significantly as a consequence. Hence my suggestion that someone with a strong enough motivation analyse the numbers for Tasmania and see what the result was there. Otherwise, we're left with an argument based on a theoretical cause and effect model for which there is support from selected case studies but without a weight of empirical evidence. For every kid we point to who stopped playing because the Bullets folded, the argument's opponents will point to a kid who started playing the year after as a counter.

Raytri - I have similar difficulties with the money thrown at the AFL by governments clubs when the AFL runs such a hugely profitable business. If a club is in trouble in the AFL, then it should bail them out. But then, I don't give 2 hoots for the AFL's continued existence so maybe I'm not an objective observer there.

@ Hood 33 - the thing is you and your company are most likely insignificant within this state. I might be wrong, but im probably right.

The 36ers on the other hand, are the states identity when it comes to basketball, and have a long standing history + fan base.

Hood 33, I don't know the nature of your business but we are talking about sport here. More specifically a national basketball team at the highest level in Australia. If the 36ers competed in some sort of well publicised international competition and won the title, you can bet the government would be doing some gloating over the significance to their state that this would represent. The Adelaide 36ers is South Australia's Basketball team. They may be privately owned but they represent South Australia.

You can't really compare 36ers to Crows or Power.
Crows regularly get 40,000+ to a game, 36ers struggle to get 5000 for most games.
Crows and Power licenses are owned by the SANFL as far as I am aware, not a private entity like the 36ers.
The SANFL puts a fair bit back into the community, what exactly does Mr Hemmerling put back into the community?

"The Adelaide 36ers is South Australia's Basketball team. They may be privately owned but they represent South Australia".

Well actually they represent Adelaide.

"The 36ers on the other hand, are the states identity when it comes to basketball, and have a long standing history + fan base"

True, but it means nothing if the club must rely on constant Government handouts to stay afloat.
Sooner or later it will have to be put out of it's misery... much like Mitsubishi's Adelaide operations.
I'm sure there were plenty of Magna/380 fans out there too, but the reality of the situation is if you have a product that 99% of the population has no interest in you can't reasonably expect to have people willing to keep throwing money into it.
By bringing the whole thing out in the open I seriously doubt anybody will now want to step up to the plate and be willing to put their goolies on the chopping block.

It still mystifies me how we have ended up like this.
We consistently had the best crowds.
We certainly didn't have the highest paid list of players recently.
We had a good sponsor in Pura.
A fantastic stadium, with its own carpark earning extra dollars.
The most successful club along with Perth and ...

Where did it all go wrong?
As far as I can see we made a big mistake in assuming Mal H was going to make a success of the business (me included). It now appears that although Mal successfully ran the Grand Prix etc, he is an 'administrator' not a visionary entrepreneur who is going to create something successfull through appealing to the masses.
Same old story. Come in, assess the finances, cut costs, increase profits. Oh wait, thats right, you need bums on seats for that!!

Hood 33 - Please dont tell me you just compared a basketball team to a car - thats just silly.

And yeah, the Aussie rules teams get 40,000 - I dont see any stadium in the NBA that holds that much...so that point along with everything you have said in this whole topic is insignificant. To say the 36ers have contributed nothing to the community is another dumbass comment.

Re-read what I wrote D.Rose, I wasn't comparing them to a car, just another business in Adelaide that was previously getting Government handouts while producing something that the majority of the population wasn't interested in.
What's so dumb about that?

Would the 36ers get 40,000+ to a game if they had a stadium that held that many?
No.
This just reinforces my argument that many more people are interested in AFL (I'm not one of them by the way) than Basketball in this country, hence that's where all the funding, media coverage e.t.c. goes.
It's simple supply and demand economics.

What exactly have the 36ers put back into the community since private ownership?

The 36ers are basically a small business employing a handful of people.
They don't really put anything back into the economy, do not support dozens of other companies (like a car plant for instance) and have no real justification for deserving government funding, they'd only p*ss it up against the wall and be looking for another bailout in three years time.

No point getting too heated up on the subject, it's still not a given that there will actually be a league to play in anyway.

I'm sorry if the truth offends you.

Hood 33, this comment ("The 36ers are basically a small business employing a handful of people.
They don't really put anything back into the economy") is quite laughable. In today's economic climate of rising unemployment, the club would be keeping around 30 people employed, both on court and off court. On top of that, the caters make money, the merchandise manufacturers make money, the photographers, the printers, Venue Tix, the list goes on. All these people and organisations involved pay taxes on the money they make. If this is not putting something back into the economy, I don't know what is. I thought you said you owned a business and employ staff?