Oh, the South African runner? I thought this thread was going to be about Michelle Timms. Carry on...

It reported today that initial testing for doping showed 3 times the amount of testosterone than a normal female athlete!

So perhaps she just hit up the roids massively

She failed the vacuum test, I believe.

How many pairs of shoes does she have?

Or the simplest of tests.....can she set the clock on her own microwave?

Yeah - just read a new news story that in she has tested positive to having three-times the normal testosterone levels of a women.

Link: http://linky.com.au/wlogv

"Preliminary medical tests on the South African athlete at the centre of a gender row reportedly showed triple the normal female level of testosterone in her body."

"High hormone levels do not always translate to a failed drugs test. Testosterone levels can vary widely."

The track officials spotted some hair growing on unusual places on her body, like her scrotum.

LMAO TC2. That was good.

Not sure why videos are provided to help the masses make up their mind, as though that should amount for anything in what is obviously a case for medical analysis. I mean, the public's view is realistically limited to "OMG, LOOKS LIKE A MAN!11!!", "CHECK FOR A PENUS!!1" and (sorry guys) a race to make jokes when their mums aren't looking.

Clearly, gender and sexuality aren't as defined as many think. There are a lot of cases where the lines are blurred and there is going to be trouble whenever the line is drawn on gender, physical impairment and the like.

Is there any merit in weight classes outside of the usual brawling sports? e.g., the paralympics, AFAIK, has varying classes of impairment to go at least some way towards providing a level playing field.

I hate in when you bring controlled logic to threads, Isaac.

There's just SO many jokes that haven't got a run yet, and you've gone and put it back on topic.

:-(

Fart in front of her and see if she thinks it's funny, or disgusting and innapropriate.

Oscar Foreman should be gender tested. He is far too pretty to be considered a man.

Sorry Dicko - guess I'd find a detailed discussion of the medical side and strategy to deal with these grey areas more interesting than Not Another 1001 Jokes! Reminds me of the 'what constitutes a planet?' issues - you can either talk of having enough gravity to hold a certain shape, meeting a certain size, clearing the neighbourhood, etc, or you can make Uranus jokes! ;)

wouldn't it be simple? just see if any nuts have been cut out and skin tucked back in? surely blood tests and all that won't prove a thing

Yeah - but when you have cases such as Lady Gaga (gag?) where they apparently have both options (phenomena called hermaphrodite apparently) it would certainly get a bit complicated!

He he he

you said Uranus!!!!

:-)

"Yeah - but when you have cases such as Lady Gaga (gag?) where they apparently have both options (phenomena called hermaphrodite apparently)"

Yeah.....wait.....what?

Ricey, I don't think anyone is suggesting she was once a man. The suggestion is she has male characteristics, like high testoterone, and therefore she is does not "qualify" for a women's event.

You can't spell Semenya without... SEMEN :D:D:D

...sorry Isaac.

Yeah - apparently the head honcho of South Africa's athletics team is none other than the former East German coach who was the mastermind of their systematic doping program many moons ago - Dr Ekkart Arbeit.

In fact Dr Arbeit is accused by an East German female athlete of giving her so many anabolic steroids she was forced to have a sex-change operation!

lady gaga... man i hate her/him/it

The jokes on this thread alone confirms that this story should never have been publicized. All it has done is create a wave of jokes and insults for this person regardless of whether she/he is cheating the system. Also without a doubt creating embarrassment for the individual and the family. All this testing could have been done privately. If she/he was found to be female, then no one would have been the wiser. If she/he was found out to be a fraud, then strip the medal and then make it public information.

The Lady Gaga comparison was not far off the mark in the end!

"WORLD champion 800 metre runner Caster Semenya has been revealed to have both male and female sexual organs, posing an ethical and political quandary for the world international athletics body, the IAAF, and South Africa.
Extensive physical and emotional examinations of Semenya, 18, have shown the athlete is technically a hermaphrodite. Medical reports indicate she has no ovaries, but rather has internal testes, producing amounts of testosterone considered abnormal for a woman."

The Age: http://linky.com.au/2dj3z

Now what to do? IAAF is considering letting Semenya keep the gold emdal but award another to the 2nd place getter.

I think that's fair. For all we know, this is the first time she's been aware of the internal testes so she was competing with good intentions.

Sport rewards the genetically gifted - the strongest, tallest, fastest, etc. In terms of competing in sport as a woman (or a reasonable approximation of one or definitely within a grey area), Semenya has a genetic gift.

I think the only solution is a grading for this minority, in the same way that paralympians have grades of physical impairment. In that context, however, achievements despite a disability are viewed positively. I don't know how exciting it's going to be for those competing in a "You have some man bits" class.

And even then, does this create precedent for all athletes to be tested for crossing sexual boundaries as they are tested for drugs?

Good points you make Isaac.
I think it is fair for Semenya to keep her gold medal too.
However as for grading the minority such as this case, the Olympics is about the best male and female athletes. There is no grading in between that at the present time. I also don't believe she has a disability or physical impairment. Therefore I don't believe such an inclusion in the Paralympics is likely to occur.
The long-term solution may well reside in the IAAF setting boundaries for what constitutes an athlete being able to compete as a man and in this case, as a woman. And therefore, in answer to your last question, it is highly likely that all athletes may have to undergoe such testing in future - whether it is right or wrong. After all, it is about gender equality as much as anything else.

There are a couple of forms of this condition, does anyone know what the chromozone count was?

Wasn't suggesting inclusion in the Paralympics, just that a similar system of grades/tiers might be the only way to properly solve it and can't really see that happening in a hurry.

The male/female black/white division has lasted a fair while, but it might start to blur over the next decade or so.

No Jack toft. It has not been reported yet AFAIK.

It all evens out in the wash. This chick has a high level of testoterone but should still be allowed to compete with the other girls. I mean, Ian Thorpe has been racing against men for years and he is the biggest girly blouse I have ever seen.

"chromozone"

Is that some sort of bumper bar megastore?

This poor girl has just found out that not only does she have a potentially lethal condition, but also that she is medically unable to have children... and they want to take away her medal when she was completely unaware of the condition?

I wonder, if she has corrective surgery will she'll then be able to compete or if they'll hold it against her for the rest of her life?

There's a lot of talk of her testosterone being triple the average woman but none about her levels being much lower than the average man. Everyone has different levels of hormones in their systems... let the girl run!

Not that I am a believer in sweeping things under the carpet but in this case I think they are making it worse for everyone if they either prolong the issue, or awards two golds etc. Make a decision right now that she is a female and can compete and normal rules apply, or ban her from the competition forever (hopefully they don't).

"On average, an adult human male body produces about forty to sixty times more testosterone than an adult human female body."

Caster's measly 3x female average hardly gives her much of an advantage!