Yet I'm sure you're happy to sit on the sidelines and have a go at the refs who are out there for way less.

There are plenty of people out there who think they can do a better job - step up! Next level 0 course is on the Basketball SA website!

I would like to challenge those who yell and scream at umpires every game, there is a level 0 course coming up in the next couple of weeks. Even if you only ref for 6 months, you will realise its not an easy job and it will make a couple of refs job a lot easier

I saw an Ad at one of the local TAFE's recently regarding that Level 0 Umpiring course. Might be something to look into further.

poor reffing call definitely cost our last game - hard to get excited about basketball when we have refs with no idea. and i mean no idea.

why do they promote refs from level 0 - when i was reffing you would be scrutinized and held to account and a level or panel position meant something - each week we drive across adelaide and have refs (kids) with no idea. ie the other week we had a kid rule out our made foul shot when the other team stepped in ?? he kept on doing it and no adult ref in sight to correct him. so when we made a foul shot the other team stepped in and he waved it away and gave us another shot until we missed ... wtf and when our coach challenged the call he said it not what they are taught...

So #282565, there was nothing else in that game that might have decided the outcome? You did not miss a lay-up you should have made, your team mate did not foul their best foul shooter at a critical time, your point guard did not turn the ball over in a situation that led to the opposition scoring?

What you are actually saying is that your team played a perfect game of basketball.... and that despite playing that perfect game, one referee made one call that caused you to lose?

#282565 They promote refs from level 0 too quickly because they need to as they have no-one else. Refs atm are being pushed too quickly through the system because they need them to fill the gaps on fridays and wednesdays etc - because people like you and everyone else that abuses referees have caused 90% at that level to quit because it is not an enjoyable experience anymore.

Let's see every ref and ref evaluator basher pick up a whistle this week. We'd definitely fill the roster then!

Up early today Maude!!!! Congrats on your recent success at nationals. What you say is so tru- so many refs have quit as the abuse isnt worth it. These so called experts who coach or are parents and sit and bag kids busting a gut to keep games actually on the court have no idea the impact the abuse has on these youngsters. Everyone has to start somewhere so give the kids a go and realise that without the refs there is no game. And if you have so much knowledge of the rules do a course, pick up a whistle and show us your stuff!!

What about just educating and coaching refs.

People are not complaining about the standard, but rather the complete lack of direction from senior refs down to the junior refs.

A lot of refs do it to stay involved in the game.

I personally have moved from playing in the juniors, played a few seniors games and moved through the ranks until I made the Senior Panel (ABA).

I do it because I love the game and the money is not so much a consideration for me, It's not meant to be a full time job.

After having a couple of years over in Vic reffing the Big V & SEABL comps, I am looking forward to returning home and possibly helping coach the junior refs if needed.

People are not complaining about the standard

If people could see that something was being done about the standard, they wouldn't be complaining.

When coaches and players spend 3 hours a week, training, and refs do no training people have an issue.

When they then turn up and watch as refs make errors and are told that they are not going to be spoken to till afte the game they are destroying people will start speaking up.

When they then get told that the game was actually ref training, and $100+ has been spent by both team on playing and the results effect finals or Nationals qualification, then people are going to yell and get extremely mad.

If refs tained once per week, and were coached during games like players are, 90% of the issues would be removed.

Dione 78, I actualy think it happens now.

For example the Nbl/Wnbl and perhaps the top panel in the ABA would all train at least once per week, more likely 2-3 times per week (Physical training)

they also train once per month on rules/management of the game etc plus they would get newsletter sent out regular by the commisioner etc

At lower levels like friday night juniors I dont think many of the young up & coming umpires would work as hard however:

I could say that if you were out on a friday night you will see many of the top officials out coaching the junior umpires like Wieland,Filmer,Durant.

They do go out and coach the kid's but I this alone is not going to help the standard across the board.

I guess what I am saying is that your comments are a little harsh if you think that the ref's dont work hard on improving themselves and each other

I think who ever gets the new job needs to spend more time on the ref culture working together as a team.

my two cents

anon,

Your are arguing my point entirely. You want to PRACTICE during peoples GAMES. Practice is where you make errors and improve. Games are where you perform and are assessed.

Having someone after a game say, well done, you stood in the right spot is not getting it done. Players are assesed and removed from games if they are not doing things right. Refs can absolutely murder a game and due to a lack of refs, only get positive feedback cuase they will quit if someone tells them they are doing badly.

Here is the main issue. Go read any skill aquisition book regarding skill development.

There are 3 stages necessary to aquire a skill.

1. Begin with practicing the skill by yourself.

2. Do the skill in a training session so that you are able to make errors.

3. Put that skill into a game.

You are arguing that players would be better off if they just went out and played 4 games, ciached themsleves and evaluated themsleves. How bad would players be. That is how bad we see you.

Unfortunately it is not your fault, but those people who think that they are developming you and telling you that you are doing the right things to improve.

You are not getting anywhere near the coaching and education that yo need and are falling should accordingly becasue BSA just want you to turn up so they can make money.

IMO you're all looking at this wrong.

I would compare refereeing to coaching not to playing.

I would compare referee development to coaching development not to playing.

Playing is something completely different from anything else in sport.

Coaching is about understand the game, understanding how to read the game and then to put that into practice.

Refereeing to me would be similar. The best referees are not those that run the quickest or know how to blow their whistle loudest but those that understand the game, understand the rules and understand how to combine the two.

To compare what a referee has to do to what a player has to do is just wrong, they're too different.

We should be developing referees as we would a coach. And if we look at this that way then I'd think we as a sport spend a lot more effort developing and training referees then we do coaches. On the downside we're forced to use much younger people to referee games then we would to coach.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

One Day there will be no referees,it will be made from Volunteer referees such as players from the previos games to do the games as BSA dont care about us referees nowadays due to the abuse week after week from District coaches,my friend,and his friends USED to umpire,but find pay crap,and critism from coaches,they have decided to work at Mcdonalds,less pressure than running up down court with A coach barking in your ear.Bridgeman should be calling referees not emailing them!!!!!!!!

Pallas,

How do you account for coaching allowing for differing styles. Ie Zone or full court man. Force Middle, force base. or differing philosophies. ie Phil Smyth laid back V Gooj up and at them.

Refs need to have consistancy. NOt 40 fouls one game followed by 6 the next. Call all travels one game and none the next. It just pisses people off. Especially when refs look after they friends.

Our biggest issues is refs dont know what is a foul and what to let go. Or where to get too and why. These are not going to be cured by a long term philisophocal approach because coaches and PAYING paretns are demanding education and development with their attitude and behaviour.

Unless of course refs are trying to cure it by decreaseing the number of players so they dont have as many games to ref. Which is what is slowly happening due to the sad state of refereeing.

how is the lack of training the JUNIOR umpires fault, 90% of those refs who quit were the senior ones now there is no one left to train the juniors because there isnt enough older/coaches to go around.

The pay rate also isnt enough for an hour or hour and 20 mins of abusive coaches and parents($10 thurs/fri/sat and $13/15 for Mon/Tues/Wednes).

What i believe is really sad is once when coaching under 10's and a green shirt umpire made a call he had the whole team of UNDER 10'S yelling at "that wasn't a foul, what are you talking about a foul, that wasn't a foul" younger and younger children are now starting to complain and they certainly do not understand the game enough to put in a valid opinion.

Maybe (like when i coach) ask the ref NICELY "what was that call, ok, what is your understanding of the rule, thank you" then teach your players how the ref is calling not "THAT FOUL WAS RIDICULOUS HE DIDNT FOUL YOUR AN IDIOT"

As a ref when i make a mistake i feel bad about and the next time im not going to make that mistake the next time but when i was a junior ref when i made a mistake and i was yelled at i became uncertain and it made my refing worse, green shirts and younger kids should be left alone to develop until they are old enough to take on being yelled at by someone else and defend themselves.

Thats my opinion thank you for reading

Has anyone considered one of the other points of view on this?

Maybe the reason there is not enough referees is because there are too many games being scheduled?

BSA has said that Friday night is supposed to the be the 'elite' junior competiton in South Australia.

Yet, nationally, Under 14s is considered to be 'Development' basketball. So wouldnt everything below Under 14 also be considered 'development'?

Hence, why are we then running 'development' competitions on the night of the week that is supposed to be 'elite' basketball.

Saturday mornings are now a ghosttown since Under 14 and Under 12 Div 57 et al were moved to Friday nights.

Could we also turn the under 18 and Under 16 division 1 comp into a 'Youth League' with a similar importance as ABL?

I cannot believe that people are comparing umpiring to playing.

Imagine your son's 8th birthday instead of getting him a basketball and Patty Mills’ jersey you get him reffing gear. "Here you go son, it’s an umpire’s shirt and a whistle! Later we can go down to the park and you can watch me shoot foulshots and then I’ll get some guys together and you can umpire our game. If you work really hard and practice at least once a week maybe you’ll be able to umpire an NBL game - it will be worth the abuse that you will get every single game even if you are just umpiring a D-grade social match."

People are comparing the fact that umpires do not receive the same skill aquisition training that players do and yet the high ups think they are doing a good job even though there are massive drop outs and an ever decreasing standard.