Anonymous
Years ago

u23 eligibility

What is the cut off point age wise? will it work like the juniors system ie under 20s are actually 18 years old? or is it people who turn 23 in the calendar year and under?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Is it actually happening?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Actually under 20s can be 19 as well. They can also be 17.

Under 23 means under 23 so the player would have to be under 23 that calendar year

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Anonymous  
Years ago

its all on sportingpulse in the abl news section. explains everything

http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?client=1-3656-0-0-0&sID=39560&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=127607

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The purpose of the U23 comp is to create a bridge for younger players between juniors and ABA and to retain players. I believe this will not occur.

Why?

Firstly ABA players can play U23 div1 in the same week. Have a look at the rosters, especially on the womens side. Many of these ABA players are U23 and are allowed to play both. Why the need for the bridge to ABA when they are already playing there. Sturt men for example I believe have at least 3 U23 players in their starting five.

Fringe players will be more tempted to switch to other sports when they find themselves pushed down divisions as the top divisions are filled with ABA quality players. Why play div 3 or lower U23's when you are only 18 when you have choices to switch to a higher grade of football.

Perhaps the solution is to restrict starting ABA players from playing in U23 comp!

I was looking forward to playing U20 Div 1 next season with better umpires and stopping the clock but that won't happen now. Football is now a real possibility for me!

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Anon  
Years ago

It sounds like the U23 comp is only geared for elite players - they will lose many to other sports or quitting - so much for growing the sport of basketball in this state!!!!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon I fear you may be right. I wonder if this competition committee thought of asking the players what they would prefer to ensure they remained in the sport and developed!!!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

if your not elite you can play in div 2 23's

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Anon  
Years ago

My son is not Div 2 standard - what happens to the kids that are div 3 standard and below?? And if coming out of 18's I would think some would not be physically developed enough to be playing in the mens comp. Will there be Div 3 in U23's?? and how many Div 1 teams can a club enter into this comp? Would it be that if you can put together a couple of competitive Div 1 teams that they all get a go?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Let's think about it. Div 1 probably made up of ABA team + squad members.

Then they need to accommodate first year U20's from this year; U18's moving up plus all the under 20's who would have moved out of this age bracket plus perhaps some players coming back to U23's from seniors as before they were too old. I am not sure 3 div will be enough and then I guess they will go with this ridiculous north and south pool arrangement to squeeze more teams into a division. Great - get pushed down divisions, play with the poorer refs, play the same teams over and over, changing times between 6 and 10 - sounds like something I don't want to sign up for!!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Then don't... Go sign up for U/20s footy. What? After U/18s they go straight into seniors in footy?

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Anon  
Years ago

My lad only plays basketball not footy he plays basketball for the love of it not to be elite. What happens to Div 3 and below kids with this new set-up? He plays district because the fact that generally you do get better reffing and organisation, including coaching, training with the District system. But it sounds like there is nothing for him as we knew it with this system and goes to prove that the people that have set this up at BSA have no insight into what demographic of kids are playing district and that their only concern is for the elite players.

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Charon 54  
Years ago

You guys are all doomsayers and wouldn't be happy unless you had something to complain about.

There will probably be 4 maybe 5 divisions of Youth League and it stands to reason that there will be a standard for virtually all players, not just the elite.

The new system actually increases the chances for non elite players, as they can play Youth League for 3 years longer than they can currently, without having to go into senior leagues. Those senior teams are notoriously difficult to break into and many players drop out at the end of Under 20s because of it.

Give it a go and see what your club comes up with before you start acting like Henny Penny! The sky IS NOT falling!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

District basketball is for elite players, if your not good enough go play social basketball, practice your skills and get good enough

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Vesta 27  
Years ago

Im not sure how they have done it, but can't see it doing anything but helping Sturt.

They are not only top 2 in ABA, but 3 starters from each team will be able to play U23. Their reserves teams and U20 team are doing well.

This is going to make them bigger and stronger and kids whose clubs can't field teams, will be forced to go to these types of power clubs to get a game. Can see sturt having 3 div 2 U23 teams and playing each other every second week.

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Vesta 27  
Years ago

Im not sure how they have done it, but can't see it doing anything but helping Sturt.

They are not only top 2 in ABA, but 3 starters from each team will be able to play U23. Their reserves teams and U20 team are doing well.

This is going to make them bigger and stronger and kids whose clubs can't field teams, will be forced to go to these types of power clubs to get a game. Can see sturt having 3 div 2 U23 teams and playing each other every second week.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

vesta, half the kids playing in under 20's at the moment are the same guys playing ABA, the clubs that will benefit will be clubs with a young ABA list, those players can play under 23's, current div 1 players playing u20's can play div 2 and develop some more

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Wow - talk about being paranoid about Sturt!!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon 884;

Brilliant comment. I wonder why football doesn't have an U23 league as a go between to assist them getting to AFL/SANFL level but basketball which had U20's now wants U23's??

Footballers can be developed up to U18's then go straight to seniors including AFL but not basketball. Perhaps the development at all levels in basketball is not as good as people think especially compared to football. Perhaps BSA now realise that and think "Hmmm maybe they need more time"

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DaddyO  
Years ago

Very different effect on men & womens.

With the girls, it is hard to see any more than two divisions anyway. There are 13 teams in the U21 comp at the moment, with no team from Eastern Mavs. To run a viable Div 3 would require another 13 teams (as 10 teams required in Div 1).

Thats about another 100 players, which would require retention of every second year coming out of U18s (say 70) plus another 30 older girls that aren't playing U21 at present. Not impossible, but difficult since what is offered is similar to the current U21 competition.

As for guys, I can't see how we have improved retention for a bottom age U23 player who has played Div 1 since U12s but is now being asked to play Youth League Div 3. The problem isn't elite v the rest, the problem is the players that were elite in the juniors that are no longer elite in Youth League.

The success of the Youth League will depend on what the ABL teams that train Monday nights decide to do with their training. If some clubs move those trainings to Tuesday nights, the Youth League will struggle as the players will prefer to train under the ABL coach rather than play YL.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

cant the ABL team train wednesday night??, light training sunday, heavy training wednesday, be some fit boys running around in the ABA which will make for a better competition

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Anonymous  
Years ago

ABL Teams will be training Tuesday and Thursday.
Youth League will NOT contain any ABL players
All Abl reserves will be playing Monday nights.

I know thats what will be happening at a few clubs.

In the girls this will mean Youth league will be the old 21.2.
In the men it will be a watered down 20 mens standard, but still a reasonable std of non abl players.


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Anon  
Years ago

Charron 54 "There will probably be 4 maybe 5 divisions of Youth League and it stands to reason that there will be a standard for virtually all players, not just the elite."

And you know this how?? no where in the statement from BSA does it allude to how many divisions or how many teams clubs can have in each division!!

Anonymous - you are a tosser - District Basketball is also about the lower division players - some kids that play district are not all able to play at an elite level and that is in their genetics. District has offered a service to these kids and should continue to do so. BSA's GRAND PLAN about getting rid of Div 3 and below to a social comp will do nothing but make the clubs poorer and kids will leave in droves if they have to play in a poorly run social comp that the clubs will care about less than the current system.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

anon 980

think you will find eligible players playing ABA want to play in the youth league.

for everyon bagging this idea, if you are finishing under 20's in a few weeks time and were probably looking at playing div 3 or lower mens, you know have 3 more years of playing against people your own age, not ten years older and physically stronger than you. You may not play division 1 but you should be aiming to play division 1 in 3 years time

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Eligible wont play both because it will conflict with the ABL training which will be moving to tuesday nights

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Anonymous  
Years ago

i love how all the ABA coaches have nothing better to do than get on here and tell everyone that trainings will be tuesday nights

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Anonymous  
Years ago

if everyone read the pdf attached to the email from Paul Arnott sent to clubs, officials, members etc, they'd know the answer to all of the questions posted in this thread...

Email him if you want a copy: [email protected]

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Anon  
Years ago

Well what does that say then about the communication from the Clubs. Perhaps Paul Arnott should start putting copies of his communications to the Clubs and its members on the BSA website so we are better informed than we obviously are! Perhaps the clubs vet what info gets sent out to its members, why, I dont know. Perhaps someone has some insight into that!!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

because its secret squirel

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Ummm, isn't it all on the SportingPulse website? Or are people just too lazy...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I have just been doing some numbers and with this expanded youth league I believe we will have at least 50 plus players who would play in the Men's side of the comp. Given their is only three divisions it looks like 5 teams of 10, with two in each of the the 2 bottom divsions - in fact could be more. So not much court time for many and if other clubs have a similar situation then I can't see how this will retain players.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

why not have 6 teams of 8

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Anonymous  
Years ago

coz that is 48. Actually at our club I think it will be upwards of 60 players after I chatted to a few over 20's who moved to social after moving on.

There is something ill thought out here. Basing it on an eastern state's approach and pushed by one club in particular in SA.

Can BSA handle all the potential teams that may eventuate all on a Tuesday night. Please don't tell me they have still to work on the details as the devil is in the detail. If they havent done this then I strongly suggest that it is a superficial review and ill informed.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

i no that our club more than likely will only be suiting under 23 teams and more than likely not suiting a monday night team with abl squad members and continuing our monday night training. only really effects 1-2 players in the squad.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

we are thinking the other way - our U23's in ABA (non starters) are more likely to play Reserves and not U23's so we can have our non starting ABA group be able to play together and develop as a team.

Now this creates a problem - we will have unbalanced competitions and the quality of competition will be compromised. On the U23 side this has a ripple effect all the way down through the divisions!!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon Thats very interesting, I suppose it depends on how many over age non abl starters each team will have and how strong each clubs junior programs are as to what teams will decide to do. Does that mean the abl squad will train tuesday nights?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

depends if your club thinks winning a div 1 u23 flag is more important than a div 2 reserves flag. i would rather the div 1 one and hope to transform that into an ABL flag in the next few years

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Anonymous  
Years ago

All this shows is that unless there is an agreed approach from the clubs we could end up with two half baked competitions!!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I have heard that almost one of our U20 teams, mainly first years have decided to give basketball away due to U23 and that some of our U18's will be doing the same!! SO much for player retention

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Well virtually all of ours are going on and many of those would have dropped out under the old system because they couldn't break into senior men's teams. It's all about how club's manage the transition and our club seems to have managed it well.

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Wam Soosnam  
Years ago

The Men's Competition will use the Youth league for sure. Clubs like Forestville/ Sturt/Norwood/Southern that have so many 20 mens teams, that the will be looking for at least 3 divisions.
There should be lots of teams and a good spread of levels.
The Women's will be a waste of time, and will not be supported by the major clubs. My mail is that the club trainings are moving to Tuesday nights, youth squad for the girls will be the old 20's and the Div 2 Monday comp will be the competition of choice by the ABL Coaches.

Probably the right decision in the girls. The 18 top age girls that are at State level will slot straight in to ABL and need the experienced senior players just to maintain both standard and numbers. oh! and to DEVELOP

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon 225 - I think one difference is you are talking about 2nd year U20's who had no pathway if they couldn't get into seniors which is the same as our club. But what seems to be happening is we are having a higher drop out rate for 2nd year U18's and 1st year U20's compared to other years.

I wonder with this drop out does this create an issue in several years time when these juniors would be/should be still playing in U23's. I guess time will tell but I am of the view that numbers will eventually decline.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Virtually all our Under 18s are continuing on to Under 20s. Again its more the quality of your coaching and how the transition is managed that will determine success or failure not how good or bad the new competition structure is. If management handles it positively then the members will pick up on that and will be more likely to embrace it. That has been our experience and so far its been very positive.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

But there is no U20's???

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Sorry, I meant on to Under 23s

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Anonymous  
Years ago

did the competition committee speak to juniors to ask there opinion. Given one of the reasons was for retention of players surely asking the players would be a good start rather than assuming what would make a junior stay involved with basketball

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