yogee
Years ago

Chat with the CEO - Q & A

Yes, they are finally here.

I once again apologise for the delay.

Here's the report

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yogee  
Years ago

If you have questions for the next meeting, keeping them in this thread would be appreciated :)

Thanks to EC who has already emailed me with some.

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Isaac  
Years ago

Looks like a good start. Why the club can't release this information without the prodding and effort of an unpaid fan absolutely amazes me.

In response to:

Some matters may become "knowledge" through gossip or innuendo, however the club may not be able to officially release things at the same time.

That's an all-to-convenient excuse for the lack of information coming out of the club. There's nothing stopping the club from posting a news article or issuing a press release talking about what the Sixers are doing in the off-season, where they're playing and where you can catch them in action. Also, there appears to be no lead up to the MVP event whatsoever. I'd actually forgotten it was happening until recently.

Here are my questions for the next round:

(1) What is the response to Boti Nagy's suggestion that there are too many staff within BASA/36ERS and/or that they are inefficient?

(2) Further to that question, and given that money is very tight, are staff in relevant positions reviewed on performance to ensure that a high level of efficiency and ability is maintained? For example, how much accountability has been assumed for the decline in ticket sales in the season immediately past?

(3) What comment can you provide on player insurance at the NBL/WNBL level? Is it a must-have or a can't afford and, if the latter, are the risks worth running and it's just something that clubs must do without?

(4) On a local basketball level, what strategies are being considered (if any) to limit the apparent drain of referees due to issues of low pay and/or abuse?

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Jezzalenko  
Years ago

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yogee  
Years ago

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EC  
Years ago

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yogee  
Years ago

Well, I guess we can see at the next meeting what follow up has occurred.

I do beleive there are plans to re-tool the website, and I am also privy to some of the plans that may be undertaken to improve web site content.

Things such as off season watch on players, and where are they now type segments are certainly ideas worth following them up. I am also now having meetings with JABA, so will suggest those ideas to them.

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IMO the article itself lacks any real substance. I must congratulate Yogee for his effort but again all he did was regurgitate other peoples opinions or thoughts; as he did in his OzHoops article which lasted what 2 days?

The answers are written from Yogee's point of view as shown in the answer to "What would you consider the success for the 2004/05 season." Also the questions weren't researched as Yogee himself showed by writing "Without specific examples, the club does not feel there is an issue." How many 'specific examples' were dicussed on here. Why not bring up one or two of them with Phil.

If you're going to Post a Q and A then show us exactly word for the word the questions asked and exactly word for word what Phil said in reply. Not your own take of what Phil said. It was extremely poorly written and obviously no more then a media session for Phil and the 36ers management. The fans want REAL answers and not more of the same BASA propaganda.

Why not follow up on the lack of substance to number of answers given.

Breaking up BASA and the 36ers for example. No other state is run the way SA is and I bet if Yogee had done his research before the interview and researched the way the sport is managed interstate he would know that no other state has the local issues we are suffering. And for Phil to reply with BASA/SA being considered the optimum model by every state is not correct. Has he spoken to other State Association Managers on the topic? Can he give an example of a state that maybe looking into such a structure? I'm sure Basketball Victoria while unhappy with the current situation of only one Vic team could very easily put together an NBL team of their own. If the SA model was considered the optimum model by every state then BV would have to agree. So why don't BV have their own NBL venue? Why don't they have their own NBL team? IMO the answers are quite clear. The fact Dandenong alone have more junior basketballers in their program then BASA have in its Adelaide based compeition is a perfect example of BASA/SA NOT being 'the optimum model'.

Why didn't you follow up Yogee?

You mentioned the topic of referees in a reply to Isaacs post. Why is it that the current refereeing crisis is considered a short term problem? What proof do they have to make that claim? What exactly is being done to solve the current problem long term? And what is being done to deal with the issue on the short term? I know I am sick of seeing referees have to do solos. Or Parents/coaches having to referee to make up numbers. In my time in the sport we've never had a shortage of referees like we do at the moment. Do BASA know why we have a shortage? Are they willing to accept some of the blame for the shortage? Do they believe by appointing a new Co-Ordinator of Referee Development that all will be cured?

Why were these and so many more follow up questions not asked? And if they were then why were they not included in the article?
IMO because it was Yogee a self appointed journo and man on the inside and not a real trained journo who would have gotten to the real issues of the questions asked. But never have been allowed to opportunity to ask them, and follow up on them in the first place.

Could you see Phil sitting down with Boti to discuss such issues? Of course not.

Sorry but IMO the article was platitudinous and lacked any real information. Next time I want answers to a question I'll ask them myself and make sure I get a real answer.

Reply #27385 | Report this post


Oh and one last thing.

Q "Why has there been a lack of response to genuine questions and concerns from fans on the official forum."

A "Unfortunately, staff just do not have time to read through the basketball forums to respond to questions."


Yet managed to close down the original forum becuase of what was being said. They don't have to read through the basketball forums. Just their own. And MAYBE this one. Is that too much to ask?

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In the Know  
Years ago

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Kent Brockman  
Years ago

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Statman  
Years ago

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Statman,

Yogee wasn't the messenger he was the interviewer. In his role of conducting an interview/Q & A session he should have got real answers. IMO he didn't. Which I never thought he would which is why I didn't bother to contribute to his Q & A. I have the answers to MY questions, and if I have any further questions I'll go get the answers for myself. And I won't claim to speak for the people when really just building my own ego which IMO I believe that's got a lot to do with what Yogee did.

I bet they set him up with a couple of season tickets for his efforts too btw.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

"Why haven't the photos of the teams under the Apollo restaurant been updated? This has been passed onto Graphic Print Group, for follow up and correction."

how many years has it been? this is such a bad answer everyone has been complaining about it for ages!!

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In the Know  
Years ago

Maybe you could ask him what his background in basketball is? I bet it is none and that is why he doesn't have a clue of how to run basketball in this state!

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Statman  
Years ago

And the answer is?.... well if you have the answers care to share them with the rest of us on the forum that might be interested. Afterall thats what I thought thsi was all about sharing what we know with each other so we are all better informed!
As for being the messenger/interviewer yes you are correct - I was simply trying to cut the guy a bit of slack. If he was as selfcentred as you appear to be and just got answers to HIS questions for HIMSELF then we wouldnt even be having this discussion.
As I said criticism is fine just make it constructive so we can ALL get the answers we want

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SKYHOOK  
Years ago

Anonymous,

What he should have said is ... " ill follow it up and get back to you " .. at least then he is taking SOME responsibility...
The photo thing has been bugging me too ..

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Nutwork  
Years ago

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Bruce Northcote  
Years ago

Regarding the current lack of referees: Neil Poulton has done an amazing job of getting Basketball Australia acreditted referee courses for Level 0, 1, 2 & 3 all up and running, as of NOW. The numbers of people that are currently attending these courses is quite staggeringly large.

There are something like 16 people registered in the L3 course - clearly not all of them will get the final accreditation, but it demonstrates a level of interest and commitment that has been lacking in previous years.

Given that not a single person in SA has completed a L3 course over the last 2 years (correct me if I am mistaken), this is a very positive sign.

This is the long term solution to the short term problem. Once these newly accredited referees (at all levels) become available, the shortage should disappear.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

His answers were just about all side-stepping BS>. Too much blame put on external parties, rather than taking it on the chin & reacting pro-actively. Please dont believe all the answers posted. there are lots of alterior motives...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

and i dont mean yogee is reporting wrong, i mean the answers given to him

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Isaac  
Years ago

Bruce, anything about the abuse of referees though? I'm not a referee, but I've been reading every discussion on here about the situation -- it seems to me that the majority are unhappy with the abuse and unhappy with the pay. Surely fixing that is as important as throwing more people into the same jungle?

Thanks for posting the information!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

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Nathan Wieland  
Years ago

The abuse of referees is as bad in Melbourne. I had a mother of an Eltham U14G Div 1 player screaming at me that the role of the referee was to even out the foul count. It was great, nothing like a bit of abuse to get the motor ticking... I had the father of the U18B Div 1 coach for the Melbourne Tigers tell me that I was a joke and didn't deserve to get paid. (They were walking out at the same time as I was getting paid)

In some ways, with more education the current group of referees you have will get smarter and better at handling tough situations.

The problem will be that you have everyone educated and working smarter but not paid for their improvements. Retention is an issue, unless they plan on continually replacing them when they quit because of a lack of pay.

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C.J.  
Years ago

Bruce a referee who was a level 2 who at the end of the year could be a level 3 isn't a new referee. That person is refereeing as we speak and a level 3 course won't make any difference to the shortage we currently are faced with.

Yes it's great to see that finally there are some courses up and running but only level 0 and level 1 courses bring in new referees and at the moment very few last very long. Also referee numbers across the board from the Level 3s to the Level 0s continue to drop out. Running a Level 3 course won't do anything to change that.

I know plenty of people who aren't active referees anymore and none of them have courses on their lists of reasons why they don't referee.

Biggest issues are:
1) Abuse/Attitudes of coaches/players/spectators.
2) The disgusting rate of pay from BASA at all levels.
3) The amazingly high level of politics.
4) The lack of professionalism and structure in the BASA refereeing system.

Reply #27417 | Report this post


Paul Arnott  
Years ago

Here's an interesting document I found on the Basketball Victoria web site. It lists 200 pages of tribunal sentences.

Nathan, do you know of any differences between the SA and Vic referee programs? Are the rates of pay similar? How about the development programs? Retenton rates? Experience levels? etc.

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Bruce Northcote  
Years ago

C.J. I didn't quote you the numbers of NEW (L0 & L1) referees, because I do not remember them. I am part of the L3 course, so know how many are registered. In informal discussions with Neil, he indicated a number of somehwere close to 100 NEW referees. The numbers of people registered in the courses is quite large at ALL levels.

Isaac: The abuse of referees has been, and unfortunately probably will always be, a problem. As Nathan indicated, getting referees educacted to a higher level provides them with more "mental armour", or toughness, to cope with those situations.

My last point about referees: the pay sucks, and we all know it. If a referee is starting to get worried about the abuse, and then looks at the meager monetary return, there is a reasonable chance that BASA will lose that referee. I am aware that Neil is proposing changes in this area as well. Unfotunately, any changes have to be apporved by a cash-strapped BASA.

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nito  
Years ago

Great find. Some of the names of team reports on the list are quite funny:
EG
A Joke GOne Wrong - 12 months. They were a joke ...then they went wrong.

All Stars - About 2 yrs - changed their name to just "ALL"

Any hole is a Goal - 26 weeks - Just for their name.

ANZ 2 - 4 weeks - For unsportsman like behaviour (hahah Banks!)

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Stephon  
Years ago

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Nathan Wieland  
Years ago

There is one fundamental difference between SA and VIC in terms of referees development.

We have BASA & SA Country.

They have hundreds of seperate associations that cover their education/training etc.

I was talking to one of the Eltham referees who said he had never actually seen the Melbourne Tigers U18B1 team.

So they have lots of small groups, where as we have one really large group.

VIC always has over 1000 registered referees, where we would probably struggle to get 400.

Victorian base rates for Juniors (Division 1)

Under 12 (60 minutes) $17.00
Under 14 (70 minutes) $20.20
Under 16,18 & 20 (80 mins) $22.30

South Australian top rates for Juniors (Division 1)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Under 12's $10.30
Under 14, 16, 18, 20's $12.70

I don't have any other information at hand regarding retention.

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Kent Brockman  
Years ago

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Paul Arnott  
Years ago

Thanks Nathan. For those that are interested, I just found this, and other Vic referee pay rates here.

So I take it that in Victoria, local associations (aka "clubs" in Adelaide) are responsible for developing their own referees for their domestic competitions. Are the associations also responsible for providing referees for home games in the VC and VJBL comps? Or are these referees co-ordinated by a state-wide body?

Do you see this sort of structure working in Adelaide?

Incidentally, re your point about the relative number of registered referees in each state (1000 to 400), wouldn't this be proportional to the number of players/teams/comps in each state?

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Stephon  
Years ago

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Isaac  
Years ago

Mee is likely going to Cairns. Bradtke possibly to Brisbane. And Saville maybe to the Pigs. Apart from that though...

Ticket pricing strategy seemed to be largely based on comparisons with AFL. The comparisons should instead be made with soccer.

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A quick comment  
Years ago

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Kent Brockman  
Years ago

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It's not Phil's responsibilty to break up the organisation though is it?

As far as I am aware that is the responsibility of the owners and executive management of BASA - in theory the President's Board of the Memeber Basketball Clubs.

Unfortunately such an overhaul would mean major changes to basketball in S.A. Something that hasn't happened EVER before in our sport. A complete restructure of the way the sport is managed in this state is the best result. And also the most unlikely to ever happen.

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Isaac  
Years ago

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Stephon  
Years ago

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Jasmine  
Years ago

My favourtie is this one :

"What do you think have been the not so much successes in the 04/05 season?

The biggest one would be not playing in the Grand Final.

Also the run of injuries ending the seasons of Mark Nash and Jason Williams, and Brett Maher also struggling with some injuries during the season.

Some of the issues with catering were a concern, and as mentioned previously, are being reviewed.

The tragic passing of Bernie and Christine Lewis was certainly a disappointment to the club."

How about the stadium being half full most of the season?

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Isaac  
Years ago

I agree Jasmine. The passing of the Lewis' is an incredibly unfortunate event. It's not a "lack of success". With that question, I wasn't looking for highlights and lowlights, but the club's opinion on what worked and what didn't work. Oh well.

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SKYHOOK  
Years ago

Yogee,

Was there really a public apology from the radio station ?

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Panther  
Years ago

He really showed how this interview was going to go after just one Question....
Why is the club so slow in getting news to the media?
"Without specific examples, the club does not feel there is an issue."
Ending his answer with&
"The marketing team acknowledges that things do need to be getting on the web site sooner."

No issues...what the????

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Isaac  
Years ago

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Mix Master Wipe  
Years ago

Thank yogee,good work,but what a load of suger coated,handball answers!
Why is it the Graphic Print Groups fault that the team photos haven't been updated?
Lazy 36ers staff by the sound of it.

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A quick comment  
Years ago

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D-lin  
Years ago

Seeing it is an organisation that we all rely on for this great game, is there anywhere we can see the "constitution", or for that matter the future plan for basketball in this state.
It's all good to have airy fairy comments, but I think we would get a lot more answers if this stuff was made public. Heck, there might even be someone out there who is willing to help out!!!!!

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Forbes 500  
Years ago

Wasn't Murray Bridge a member club? And since they merged with who ever the licence or voting rights went to the Eastern Mavericks.


And in this case do the Adelaide Southern Tigers have two votes because wasn't Adelaide Giants who merged with Southern Districts to become the Adelaide Southern Suns as well as the original vote for the NCT portion.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The Southern Tigers only have one vote. Structure was changed from 10 member clubs to 9.

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EC  
Years ago

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yogee  
Years ago

Well....I think I have a right of reply here.

I NEVER EVER once purported this was going to be a media witch hunt, nor was it going to be an investigative journalistic expose.

It was purely a chance where I had the toe in the door to be able to leverage a meeting with the majority of the BASA management (there were 7 people plus me at the meeting).

I never once have asked for any credit regarding this (hence why my report doesnt even have my name attached), and I in fact burned a day of my annual leave to attend this meeting.

I HAVE NOT been "set up with a couple of season tickets"....in fact I have a media pass from the NBL issued to me, which gains me access to any stadium in Australia.

I get a seat on the media bench, because that is what I am entitled to as accredited media. I can also tell you I am the first to be bumped off if we have media come from interstate, and I somewhow have to sit in the stands, running my lap top.

As far as my report goes. Yes, I did paraphrase what was said. Because beleive me, you would not want me to write word for word what was said. I took the salient points, and wrote those. The majority of it is on audio tape, which I recorded, and the club also made their own recording (I actually ran out of tape and had to revert to shorthand notes)

I would offer a listen to the tape, however I was also given several things in confidence, something I am not willing to break.

Yes, it is a puff piece, and was a vehicle for the 36ers management to respond to questions in their own positive ways.

However, I dont want to be attacking the club, and the management who have kindly taken time out to even agree to this meeting, and therefore risk no further meetings.

In reference to the question about the club being slow to post news.....they asked for specific examples of when this has occurred. Unfortunately, as I didnt write the question, I could not shed any further light on it. Quite simple.

Graphic Print Group actually do the picture wall, one of the 36ers directors is involved with them (GM, owner or something similair)....hence why that issue has been passed on to them.

I invite "and the answer is" to attend the next meeting....which will be one I have when I take time off my paid employment...unpaid time.

All to give people on these forums the oppurtunity to get their opinions and questions heard by management.

I have never promised you will get the answers you want.

Yes, perhaps I could have followed up more, and a couple of issues I did, but I will also take that feedback on board.

"And the answer is" you can email me at [email protected] on times in April you will be available to attend the meeting with me. Something tells me that you wont bother. After all, you seem to be able to get your own answers, which you dont share. But of course, I am the one in this for myself (and I am still wondering what benefits I got out of it)

Your right I didnt do any research. Thats nto what I was planning on doing. Perhaps what you were expecting from my meeting is different to what was proposed.

My background in basketball? Not huge. I have been a fan for several years (over 10), umpired for about 5 years, and have been writing match reports, opinion pieces and news articles for 6 years.

My bio of pulished works includes : Basketball World, NBL Today, NBL Live, OzHoops (all web sites). adelaide36ers.com (before Isaac took over, and also during), and also wnbl.com.au (yes, the official league web site).

I have been involved in design / management and / or moderation of both the 36ers site, and also moderated this forum for a while.

I have also been published in Pro Basketball Today, normally doing a season preview for the 36ers, and also had a full page article on the future of the Boomers coaching staff after the Athens Olympics.

I have attended every home game for the last 7 years, bar about 6, due to family reasons. I have attended several road games as well.

I also started working as a statistician for an ABA club last ABA season, did stats for the ABA All*Star game, and was appointed to the national panel for the last season, doing a couple of womens and mens leagues games, albeit in a learning capacity (it is always a learning capacity, but first season more so!)

So whilst I have not been around for a long time, I have seen plenty of basketball, and I think have a reasonable knowledge about the sport.

I dont purport to know any more than the next person, and always willing to listen to other peoples opinions, as long as they are willing to accept I may not agree with them, and will tell them so. I also do not purport to know how to actually play the game, having never played, nor do I purport to know the first thing about coaching.

I also have some journalistic training, although I am not officially qualified.

Thats my 3 cents worth

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cheezeburger  
Years ago

i think BASA should take a look at what the national soccer league has done.scrap there whole old system,sacked everyone and started from scratch.

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Kent Brockman  
Years ago

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Jonno  
Years ago

hey yogee this is sort of off topic, but do you have a copy of the stats for the aba all star game??? would you be able to post them or email them to me on [email protected]

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In the Know  
Years ago

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Libertine  
Years ago

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joshuapending  
Years ago

he is just trying his best. This is the most we have heard in a long time and if everyone is bitching about this why would he continue. Its like everything in life, he will improve with experience. No doubt he will do somethings different or ask different questions. As a first session i think it was great, you can only get so much from a 1st meeting. I dont think anyone can be critical as as far as i know no one here has gone to the lengths yogee has to get informationm be happy you are getting anything at all.

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Stephon  
Years ago

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yogee  
Years ago

Libertine..i did not say I was trained as a journalist. I said I had SOME journalastic training.

A big difference.

As far as paraphrasing, there was a lot of waffle, off the topic comments, and general chit chat that didnt need to be posted. That is why I didnt write it word for word.

I never expected to be given some deep dark home truths, I purely expected this meeting to be a vehicle for 36ers management to paint themselves in good light.

My plan HAD been that as I gained more confidence from the management, I would be able to get the harder questions answered, and possibly some real results.

But you know what, stuff it.

I have been accused of doing this purely for my own personal gain. Apart from people on this forum knowing I had the meeting, could someone enlighten me to what benefit I gained?

Would it be the days annual leave I lost from work to be there? Would it be the 2 hours of my personal time at the meeting? Or the 3-4 hours of time preparing things beforehand?

Perhaps it was the histrionics and general abuse I have received in this thread?

Well guess what, I cant be stuffed gaining those benefits, so I will tdo the right thing for everyone, and not bother repeating these meetings.

So everyone can have their whinges on here, a forum that management clearly does not read, and they can sit there and never know whether the question may have been answered or not.

I really cant be bothered with a bunch of ingrates.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

in other news, boti nagy quits his job because a couple of people bag him on a forum.

when the going gets tough..

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yogee  
Years ago

Yeah well...Boti gets paid, regardless of what happens.

I took time out of my life, at my own expense, to cop a bagging like this.

Tell me why I should bother? And nice to see you have the balls to put your name to a criticism.

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Isaac  
Years ago

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Anonymous  
Years ago

no yogee in the phonebook...

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yogee  
Years ago

Well tell ya what anonymous...over 50% of the people here could tell you my real name...and gee if you even had an inkling of what you were doing...you would be able to find it in about 3 minutes flat in Basketball web sites alone....

Isaac, your comments are very correct, unfortunately a bad day at work, minimal sleep and stress at home just added up to a rageful vent on my behalf.

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yogee  
Years ago

And I will also give a positive comment...at least "and the answer is" did actually have the cojones to email me...even if he didnt offer to come with a meeting with me.....but at least he made contact :)

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Anonymous  
Years ago

wise person once told me when you want to over react take your fingers off the keyboard

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Against criticism a man can neither protest nor defend himself; he must act in spite of it, and then it will gradually yield to him.
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749 - 1832)

for you yogee!! Act in spite of it!!

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james  
Years ago

yogee, you mentioned a problem with umpire numbers only being a short term problem?? but theres a long term solution. and that clubs are being consulted with to help remidy this solution.

to this i say that is complete BS. instead of consulting with the clubs who btw do NOT own the umpires. we go where want to.
second to this, the problem will only get worse whilst BASA does not do something RIGHT now. MVale stadium last night had 5 umpires pull out at the last second, how is there even close to a long term answer?? the answer needs to be yesterday or last week. not in the future.

when you said BASA are working with the clubs, how? are they 'training' up new umpires? i can tell you this right now. it will take a MINIMUM of 3 years before you have an umpire capable of umpiring effectively @ a friday night district standard. that takes alot of time and dedication and the majority of intake into the umpiring realms are children. tell me this, would you feel comfortable with a 13/14yo on an under 20 game?? i know i would not want to watch that.

once again the usual BASA responses. well bravo, keep going BASA, lets see if you can survive when all of your umpires have defected to CountrySA of to college basketball, where the conditions, the pay, the games are all better

james
National L2 umpire

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Anonymous  
Years ago

How is it the fault of BASA that those 5 referees pulled out at the last minute? It's all very well for people to expect to be treated professionally but they also need to be a little professional themselves.

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auslot  
Years ago

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Reply #27719 | Report this post


Yogee,

Why do you want me to go to the next meeting (if there is one) with you? Is it to simply find out who I am, or have me do all the dirty work?

Reply #27748 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

To see you do the so much better you seem to think you would be able to!

Reply #27749 | Report this post


Not a hater  
Years ago

To everybody,

It doesn't mater what questions yogee asked. He would have gotten the standard everything is fine response from Snaders. And we already know that things are not fine.

So don't shot the messenger for the message. Yes I agree that yogee should have written word for word what was said. And no that a true journalist would not agree to a 'you can't write that prose'.

But all in all it was anybody sensible should have expected

Reply #27756 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

Actually not a hater, jornalists everywhere get the old "you cant print this yet" line.

Even the NBL head office sends out press releases ahead of time, embargoed for a specific time. But we arent able to mention them. You break those sorts of confidences, you dont get the news in the future.

Reply #27781 | Report this post


Dr Dunkenstein  
Years ago

(Mod: This post is not available.)

Reply #27788 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

Yeah, I have been trying to leave the umpire issue alone, because I think (personally) it is another ketttle of fish altogether, and something that maybe people need to be pushing to have some sort of forum with Neal Poulton.

But yes, I will bring the issue up again next time, and see what responses I get.

Reply #27794 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Yogee, the cup's half full. Remember that.

Reply #27806 | Report this post


Moses Guthrie  
Years ago

Just read the report. Shame that we haven't seen any official farewell to Jason Williams, assuming he's not returning to the Sixers. Like him or not, his contribution has been considerable.

Reply #27807 | Report this post


Statman  
Years ago

Maybe they are planning a combined farewell with Smyth, Breheny, Maher, Farley, Rychart etc etc etc

;)

Reply #27818 | Report this post




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