Isaac
Years ago

Funny ABL Stats launched today

Just wanted to let everyone know about what I've spent the last few days on. Working until 3AM, pushing clients aside for a bit to recharge my batteries with something different (OK, it's still basketball, but it's interesting for me), etc.

I've added an ABL Statistics link in the sidebar and the address is:

www.hoops.com.au/sa/stats ยป

There's still some more stuff to come, but there's already a good amount of useful information available, such as the Hoops SA Ratings, Per 48 Minute stats for every category, game-by-game statlines for every player in the ABL (men and women).

Head to a team name to find the season boxscore to date for their roster, the top five in each stat category, the top three performances for players from that team, and more to come.

Hit a player's profile to see their season highs, game of the season, and their game-by-game stats.

If you've got any suggestions, let me know.

One of my favourite pages is the Hoops SA Rating index. Jason Dix is currently leading the men from Oscar Forman, Todd Gower, Paul Vanderburgh and Darren Ng. In the women, Vikki Kelson and Tracey Braithwaite have a Panther double at the top, followed by Tania Dhu, Laura Summerton and Melissa Marsh. Also, you might not believe your eyes, but Justin Wilkey isn't even in the top ten for field goal attempts per 48 minutes. I'm sure he'll get there eventually (just joking Wilkey!).

The Hoops SA Rating is explained on that index page -- basically it rewards a bit of everything, especially good shooting and careful ball handling.

Of course, I've already got a $300 excess bandwidth bill for this month alone due to the popularity of the forum, and adding more content to the site won't help, but oh well. Let me know what you think and/or provide any suggestions in this thread.

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Mustafah  
Years ago

Well done Isaac. That statistics area is fantastic. It might even help me with my tipping.....

I work in a similar field, so I know the amount of work that went into putting this together.

Bravo.

Reply #27573 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Thanks Mustafah.

Also, thanks to Hoop Addict for helping out with allocating players to the right teams.

We're going to try and add a small bio and headshot to each player profile. If you've got any other suggestions, yell out.

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nito  
Years ago

Brilliant, now i just gotta get some numbers up there!

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Rite  
Years ago

Issac and Hoop Addict. Excellent job. I could imagine how hard it would have been to put that together.
It shows that the stats talk. Will be interesting at season end how the ratings compare to the Medal Counts?

Reply #27581 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Brilliant effort Issac and Hoop Addict. You guys are doing a great job for bball in SA. You are both to be commended. Without you guys where would we all be able to bitch about things???

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Panther  
Years ago

Geez how good is that Baylis guy per 48 minutes!!!

Reply #27610 | Report this post


emcee  
Years ago

Greta job Isaac!

I have an interesting idea for you...

You might be aware of the Fantasy Hoops game that runs for most of the sports in the States. If you could replicate this at an NBL level and charge an entrance fee per team, people from all over the country could play and you could reap the rewards. Or better yet, approach the NBL to take over the fantasy hoops comp and make it better. The one that was run on NBL.com was crap!

Let me know if you want any further information

Reply #27619 | Report this post


Rite  
Years ago

Must be all the work you did on your jump shot over the summer Panther!!!

Reply #27620 | Report this post


Frangers  
Years ago

Fantastic job Isaac

Reply #27625 | Report this post


Jonno  
Years ago

Sensational work!!!!

Reply #27628 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

emcee -- there is already NBL GM and Sportal's Dream Team (the official NBL one) covering Fantasy NBL. Both are free. I don't know if enough people would pay to make it worth while.

I didn't play NBL GM, but I did do Dream Team and thought that, while limited, it was OK (the concept of starters/bench and a captain was good).

My only other experience with Fantasy comps is the NBA one run by The Sporting News which I think is great (three weeks to go and I've finally got ahead of Rick Castle!).

Work-wise, getting the stats in there is one part. Building an application that enforces trade deadlines, position restrictions and so on, is not exactly trivial. If I had no clients, I'd build it for the hell of it, but I don't really have the time to do it for that reason.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

isaac,

brilliant, very informative and entertaining

thanks

Reply #27632 | Report this post


Lyn Wieland  
Years ago

well done Isaac and Hoops addict
(and not just because i read the lack of thanks in another thread)

we sometimes over look the pat's on the back and think that people know they have done a great job

i'm sure the traffic you get on here and in the main the calibre of threads and comments shows that you are providing a good service that is much appreciated by a lot of people even if they do not acknowledge it.

unfortunately apathy reigns until you make a mistake then i'm sure someone will be sure to tell you.

:) great job

Reply #27642 | Report this post


billo  
Years ago

That's bloody impressive Isaac.

It's staggering that one volunteer can produce something so vastly superior to what was offered on NBL.com throughout the season. Perhaps you could approach nbl.com and show them what you've done here with a view to doing the same thing next season in the big league for some $$$.

Kudos to you.

Reply #27644 | Report this post


yogee  
Years ago

As a stats junkie, I was gonna say great job as well...but well...I looks at bit pitiful now....but great job anyway (and why couldnt you write it for that damn fantasy league?? lol)

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Isaac  
Years ago

Step by step billo... I'm flying interstate next week to meet with an NBL club (they approached me recently) and there's a chance that the code could be integrated into their site. We'll see how it goes. Not really aiming at the NBL, to be honest. That said, their stats are pretty half-hearted.

Yogee, yeah, it would make the fantasy league a lot easier even when handling the trades and so on manually. BTW, no accepting bribes for biased stat-calling! ;)

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incognito  
Years ago

Isaac, with respect, you are a gun but shouldnt you learn from your last basketball development experience???

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pimp my stats  
Years ago

legendary

Reply #27670 | Report this post


Dr Dunkenstein  
Years ago

great job isaac and hoop addict!!

Reply #27671 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

incognito -- we'll see.

Next step for the stats app are some player bios. Most of these will be done courtesy of a couple of the moderators who know more than I do about some of the younger ABLers. I'll also set something up so that everyone can submit info for the bios -- clubs played for, any awards, any State-level representation, etc. We're also hopeful of getting headshots in there like I said -- Forestville have a headstart on this via their website. Should be good for people to be able to look up a player and find out a little bit more about them. Identities in the league can only increase its appeal.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I have to agree the stats area on here is equal to anything available on basketball in Australia.

Just wondering if it was possible to get stats for the 2004 season maybe team-by-team to compare this years stats to. Would be interesting to say compare D.Ng's 2005 stats with those he got with Woodville in 2004. Just a thought, I'd think it would only be possible with BASAs support, and I don't know how likely that is.

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Isaac  
Years ago

If you can get me every boxscore from the 2004 season, I will give it a go.

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delta  
Years ago

I like the Hoops SA stat - but it got me thinking - what should each stat be worth.
If we assume that a team shoots 50% from the floor and 75% from the line and scores approx 1 point per possession then we can make some guesses as to what everything is worth:
Points: 1
Rebounds and Steals: 1 (as they secures another possession for the team)
Assists: 2 (they either results in 1, 2 or 3 points being scored - average 2)
Turnovers: -1 (lost possession)
Missed Field Goal: -0.5
Missed Free Throw: -0.75
Blocks: 0.5 (This is a hard one because sometimes the ball goes out of bounds or back to the opposition in which case it is worth nothing statistically, and sometimes it goes to a team mate - assume half and half)

Obviously this is purely mathematical and intangible factors are not included. Things like blocks and steals can lift a team but this is very hard to measure. Towel waves and water bottle assists can also lift a team but those stats aren't recorded!

It would be interesting to see how this system would change the HSA leaderboard. Probably not a lot although it would probably give guards who do not rebound a lot a better shot as all of the players in the top 10 for both men and women are good rebounders

Reply #36346 | Report this post


bravo  
Years ago

Isaac,
Where did you get the formula for HSA from?
This one could be debated forever. At the end of the day the best players will always feature in any realistic stat rating system.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Delta,
Fair enough in theory - in practice Oscar, Dix, Vandenburgh etc are dominating however way you want to look at it

Reply #36353 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

The difference between a rebound and a steal is that a steal secures possession without the opposition having a shot at basket. A defensive rebound occurs after they've had that 50% attempt. Blocks are a stat in which you can demoralise the opposition too, and weighted heavily because they're rare.

Players in the NBA who do well under the HSA/TSN system are passing big men (KG is the king), solid all-round players who get steals and blocks (Ben Wallace, Shawn Marion) or scorers who add other stats (Wade, Bryant, McGrady, Iverson).

The equivalent of KG in SA is probably Jason Dix.

One difference between, say, NBA stats and the state league is that besides Kosmider, there aren't many players that average a really solid assist count (only three players getting 5 or more APG).

The HSA formula comes from The Sporting News method of calculating points for its Fantasy Hoops games which I've played for a few years. There's also a standard efficiency calculation on a few of the stats pages if you'd rather go by that.

Reply #36356 | Report this post


delta  
Years ago

Not having a go at HSA just noting a few things that's all.
A steal takes away a 50% chance of scoring = approx 1 point.
As does a defensive rebound because everytime a shot goes up there is a new possession up for grabs.
I did note that tangible factors are hard to consider and a block is definitely one of those - but any assist, rebound, steal or score can also lift a team. Just because a stat is rare does not mean it should have more weight - by this logic an offensive rebound should be weighted higher than a defensive one yet they both effectively do the same thing for the team - secure another possession.
It was just a different way of interpreting the stats based on possesions. As I said the cream will always rise to the top

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