Isaac
Years ago

36ers grant Creek leave for national camp

The Adelaide 36ers have thrown their support behind the Australian Junior Development program by releasing the exciting and talented Mitch Creek to attend the development camp in Canberra this week.

Mitch, a stand out at the Albert Schweitzer tournament in Germany earlier this year will be an important part of the Emu's (Australian Under 19) plans for the World Championships later this year.

Mitch’s form for Adelaide is improving with every outing and he was a key contributor to Adelaide’s come from behind win over reigning Champions Perth on Sunday.

"We have a commitment to develop our players here in Adelaide and their involvement with the National program, whether at junior level or with the Boomers is reward for continued improvement. I hope, in the future, the strength of our program will be measured by the number of players we have representing the Boomers" Adelaide Head Coach Marty Clarke commented.

Mitch will return to Adelaide on Thursday to attend to the important matter of preparation for a return bout with Perth on Saturday.

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BMF  
Years ago

Clarkes dedication to not only his players but the Australian program is evident to see here..

Look after our own and eventually they will look after you..

Reply #305559 | Report this post


Flinders80  
Years ago

Also could bite him and the franchise in the arse if Creek were to get injured

Reply #305576 | Report this post


cavolo  
Years ago

Yes, and he could also get hit by a bus crossing the road flinders, or he could do an acl at training with the sixers instead...

Reply #305584 | Report this post


BMF  
Years ago

franchise & Creek...put the pipe down...

Reply #305585 | Report this post


Jonno  
Years ago

great move by the 36ers seeing the bigger picture and not standing in the way of Creeks international aspirations.

As many have said if the club looks after their players the players will look after the club,

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Creek is a gun,

He just can't shoot for peanuts, but he is a beast attacking the rim!

Reply #305592 | Report this post


EC  
Years ago

That's right, take care of the players who may or may not benefit this club in the years to come. After all, they are all going to follow the money wherever it may be. Aren't you supposed to separate the development side of players and the success in the NBL side. Sorry if I offend people with my comments but as a fan of the 36ers I pay to watch a successful and competitive NBL team. I want the fans to be taken care of as well but it seems that this is not part of the Clarke agenda. All he is doing is bringing the AIS to Adelaide.

Jonno, just look at the players that left the 36ers in the last 4 years and those who refused to come on board, and are now successful in other NBL clubs or overseas. Where does it show that they will look after the club?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

EC - please promise me you will stay in Adelaide and never leave. The idea that you may one day support my club is scary- you just can't help yourself but find fault in everything!

I wonder what your opinion is of various football teams around the world releasing their players (superstars not bench players) for the socceroos at the moment?

Reply #305600 | Report this post


Jonno  
Years ago

Wortho quoted was in the paper not long ago saying that an offer to Adelaide he got in the off season was tempting and exciting to him, he didnt take it as he was looking at Europe at that point and didnt decide to come back to Oz until the last minute when the Blaze sacked there import to bring him in, sure in hindsight it might not have been a bad move to sack one of our imports to bring in wortho but at the time they wanted to keep them, and having Ballinger and Wortho on the same team may or may not work as both play their best at PF.

We didnt get him but at least it shows a top line player is interested. Guys like Ingles and Newley have also been quoted as liking Clarke as coach, so down the track who knows we may grab someone of that quality. Nothing is guaranteed but atleast it looks like Clarke has good young(ish) players interested in the 36ers.

Wasnt Schensch also keen? but we already had Johnson signed and Schensch he was asking top dollar and after his injury riddled season in Perth i can understand not giving him top dollar. Perth were not either and even many Perth fans didnt seem to want to keep him.

Marty Clarke seems to have a good reputation with those he coached, which is why we got Creek and Bruce mid season,(Another top young Aussie in Greenwood is also training with them) and given a full pre - season with the team Bruce could be one of the top Pg's IMO in top form he is as good as Gibson, and Creek will be one of the best Aussies down the line IMO. So there are 2 good pick ups mid season, if we can retain those 2, pick up another good player or 2 in the off season when we will have more points/$$$ available, which i hope we get atleast 1 legit starter, the 36ers will be fine, and have a good young core to build around. Johnson and Creek are the 2 best U/24s IMO. When have the 36ers ever been able to claim that they had the 2 best U/24s to build around in the past.

Bottom line is if the players stay or not if you respect them, their wishes and their carreer/international aspirations and let them take these opportunites like we have with Creek, it may not guarantee he will stay but its a move in the right direction, would tick a box towards staying in Creeks mind and gives us a good chance of keeping him.

If we held him back i reckon he would be outta here!

so id rather respect him and have him happy to play here personally, with the hope and half decent chance that he will play here for many years.

Reply #305625 | Report this post


thomo  
Years ago

dont worry jonno EC wants nothing more then to bag any thing not related to the praise or retention of Phil or Dusty end of story...

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Beantown  
Years ago

OMG stop the presses, Mitch Creek has been released to train with the Emus for what, 2 days? It was the right move by Clarke, but its hardly something to get excited over.

EC, another point I would like to make with regard to developing players: if you sign them young and hang onto them, their points value is lower and in the long run that helps you to build a more stacked team that you would have if you were just poaching the latest star from another club.

I know that there has been a lot of player movement in the last few years, but that is because the league was on its death-bed and so were the Sixers. There was a time when teams did retain a large portion of their roster over several seasons and that is the model all clubs should be looking at to succeed in the long run. Just trying to cobble together a new team of stars every year is not going to work.

Reply #305633 | Report this post


BMF  
Years ago

EC, hold a player from representing their country and see if they stay with the club...

Reply #305636 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

BMF, exactly. EC, morale must suffer at your work if you're only ever granted leave when it suits the company and shareholders and not when you would like to go on a holiday or do some personal development, etc.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

We all know EC is one of the most negative posters on here, and instead of cheering for the club to do well, actually waits for them to stuff up so she can feel like she was right to be so negative all along.

Heaven forbid she congratulate the club for doing something well/good!

Reply #305644 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Do we have any SA kids at the development camp?

Reply #305657 | Report this post


Oberon 56  
Years ago

Spehr, Carlin and Marriott in the boys

Reply #305659 | Report this post


KB3  
Years ago

Hey EC can you remind me again why your favourite player Dusty left the 36ers

Reply #305661 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

With regards to Worthington, didn't Marty then say that they never offered him a contract?

That was a bit weird...

Reply #305667 | Report this post


Ushiro  
Years ago

Perhaps consider what Adelaide United have done in recent seasons in signing young, eg Burns, Djite, etc and even old talent in Ognenovski. All have contributed to the Reds when there and have then gone overseas for their future careers.

Whilst they havent retained these players long term, it has encouraged other good players to join The Reds as they see that the club is supporting them and giving them opportunities to further their careers.

Big advantage in Soccer is the transfer fees but not everyone in Basketball is going to get a big overseas contract. By recruiting and keeping good young players, it does minimise the player points and enable the 36ers to build a team that will hopefully achieve long term, sustainable success on the court. It also will assist in off court stability.

Reply #305668 | Report this post


EC  
Years ago

I wonder how many of these EC bashers have missed only 2 home games and attended dozens more on the road to support the team in the last 8 years. If you qualify with such an impressive record, then bash all you like. Words are cheap, its actions that speak louder than words so tell me in all honesty that I don't speak out of passion for the sport and the team. Its passion like this that brings the criticism when all is not well at the 36ers camp. I, like everyone else would like to see the team doing a lot better. How many people have used the word embarrasing to describe many of the road games? If that's not negative, I don't know what is. Negative is also being so fed up that you quit on the team. I have never quit.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Just because you turn up to games, doesn't mean you know what is best for the team.

And as you yourself has said, you wont quit on the taem anyway.

Reply #305675 | Report this post


Big Marty  
Years ago

Jonno, we've dipped out on several high-key players simply because we wanted to form a team quickly and get to practicing.

Wortho was the most recent instance of someone we wanted, but he couldn't accept at the time. Then he came back but the spots were already taken.

Big Red was in the same spot; wanted to try out his chances overseas in the off-season. Sixers needed a Center, but rather than wait to see how he would go, they recruited Burston to replace him. Luke comes back from his ventures to find no space in the Sixers side and gets recruited by Perth.

I don't think there's been a case of "we don't want to play here" just a "you already have someone and don't want/need me now".

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XY  
Years ago

I don't understand the negativity this year at all. This team is nothing like last year's team.

Sure, we are poor on the road, and extremely inconsistent - but youth and inexperience will do that to you. We have buckleys of making the finals, but at the same time neither are we wooden spoon contenders.

I personally give a massive tick to the team, recruiting and administration this year. We have signed young, talented and exciting players of the future who play with passion and hustle to replace old, recycled players at the end of their careers in Burston, Groves and Cooper (and Davidson the year before that).

The team has played, mostly, with hustle and intensity rather than the lacklustre trash thrown up last year. We have a new coach finding his feet at this level, but that's far better than last year's disinterest and disorginisation. Carter, Ng and Hill have all taken big steps forward under Marty and may not be superstars but have shown something. Creek is a great recruit and I am hoping he will one day be the 36ers' captain. I also see Bruce as a real player of the future.

On the imports front, the team has been quick to take steps to try to save the season when things weren't working. Not sure we have still got the combination right, but great to see moves being made to try to improve the team.

We have had injuries and bad losses and bad umpiring and piss-poor beer on offer, but all in all it has been a greatly improved season and I have enjoyed it. So we won't win the championship this year. I would still prefer to see this years team any day over last year.

Reply #305747 | Report this post


roadkill  
Years ago

Wortho was never offered a deal. When his agent was sniffing around after not getting him a gig in Europe 36ers said the only way they would sign him is if it was for 2 years and no euro out clause and for bugger all money.

Wortho trusts his agent which he shouldn't. Cairns still have an agreement that Wortho was going to play there instead he suited with the Tigers after his agent committed him to the Taipans

Schensch is in the same boat as players whos agents have stuffed them by promising the big euro pay day.




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Isaac  
Years ago

EC, Creek is going to this camp to practice playing on the road...

Reply #305755 | Report this post


Emu's Camp  
Years ago

for Oberon 56,

Spehr did not go, could not train after the ankle he did during Sunday's curtain raiser.
Marriott went but had to come home, still suffering effects of the concussion in the same game and could not train.
As long as Carlin survives the camp, we will have all 3 for Maitland.

Reply #305766 | Report this post


thedoctor  
Years ago

EC, as usual a short-sighted assessment of the situation that doesn't understand/acknowledge all relevant factors.

It's fair to say that most players strive to play representative basketball, and if the Sixers develop a reputation for being inflexible with these types of situations, it will be that much harder to retain/attract good players.

Do you apply the same argument to compassionate leave? Or risk playing injured players for short term benefit?

You are criticizing Clarke for recruiting the best young player in the country - of course the Sixers would have known he would be in playing in the U/19 worlds and may have even agreed to the release as part of his contract negotiations.

I'd be willing to bet if a hard line on this was taken, he'd be in another uniform.

Besides this - being the main player in high pressure international competition can only be of benefit to him and the club. Looking after a player's development and looking after the club's best interests aren't mutually exclusive. They are one and the same.

Reply #305781 | Report this post


KingJames  
Years ago

I kind of agree with EC and not really sure why their is EC bashing going on.

As a fan of the club I don't care about how many Australian representatives we have in the team as long as we are winning. Usually having a few Australian representatives in the team means we will be winning however I see it as a totally different situation to what Clarke is trying to bring in. I see Clarke developing Creek and him playing this year as well as next year but then he will go to Europe and then will make the Australian team. So much for rebuilding the Sixers when these AIS kids keep on leaving when they are about to become a star in this league. I have no problem with Clarke sending Creek to train with the Junior Australian team that is fine but I have a problem with him solely focusing on creating future Australian team players whom once develop here move on to better things whilst this team continues to lose. If he wants to solely develop future Australian players by giving them excessive minutes at the price of the team winning then he should go back to the AIS.

Having said that it is possible for him to achieve both but to do this he must focus more on bringing experienced high named players into the team (Schenscher, Worthington etc) with quality imports. Then slot in junior players. This way we will win and if the future stars go off to europe/USA or able to stay then that is fine as long as we are winning.

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Spinner  
Years ago

King James - Fully agree!!

This has been my arguement all along about a coach who appears to focused on development at the detriment of putting a team on the floor that can win now or very soon. Isaac has tried to explain this to me but I STILL don't see the logic in a 3 year plan when all the players are only going to stick around for a year or 2?

Sure, send him off to camp - but do it for the right reasons!

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mmmmmmmmmmmm  
Years ago

If Clarke only had a focus on a development team why the Import changes and Bruce.
From what I have seen other than some questionable shooting ability Creek has the ability to do the job now and you could argue he is of more value than 3 current rostered players already.
I am sure Creek was bought in for an imediate affect not just to train him up for his future.

Why would Clarke hold a bullet to his head, no Club owners are going to accept their cash being used for the development only.

Seriously people!!

Reply #305789 | Report this post


XY  
Years ago

I disagree entirely KingJames. It is one of the craziest things I have ever heard. Are you saying that we not sign the player with the most potential to be a superstar because he may leave when (if) he reaches those dizzying heights? That instead we shoot for mediocrity, being only those players not likely to leave?

Previous Sixers' administrations and coaches have been criticised (righly) for not identifying and developing the high potential young players who were right under their noses, such as Joe Ingles and Brad Newley.

The Dragons (if they still existed) and Townsville would not regret for one second the time and effort they put into Ingles and Newley, both of which made their teams better, even if only for several seasons.

Make Creek into a superstar and I will love every second of the ride and will follow his career when he goes on to bigger and better things. But what do the Sixers have to lose? What if he doesn't become a superstar bound for Europe or the NBA, but merely a star player in the NBL. Do we let another team have the chance to win that player's loyalty? Let them be the ones to prove that player is a superstar? Rubbish.

Then you refer to Schenscher and Worthington as people we should target - they would have to be the two worst examples of people who are likely to leave at the drop of a hat to go to Europe. Both were looking for just such an opportunity last off-season when the Sixers were signing up this team.

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KingJames  
Years ago

XY, I can't understand why you don't see the negativity with this team this year.

We finished last, last season but there was no Bunny Sydney team then. We will probably finish second to last this season which is pretty much last compared to last season.

We are currently 7 and 10. Last season we finished 10-18. If you take the 2 Sydney wins away that is 5-10 so far. Either way we have 3 more home games and 8 away games. I see us winning 4 to 5 games putting us at 11-17 or 12-16 at best! This is a worse result in my eyes considering Sydney will give us 3 to 4 wins and Clarke was able to cut and replace the imports at any time unlike Ninnis last season.

Signing players of the future means nothing if Creek and Johnson leave to play in Europe after next season.

Hill and Ng have improved slightly if not at all compared to other seasons. If they have improved slightly it would be more of an indication of maturing as a basketballer.

I wouldn't have been surprised if Ninnis signed Carter since he was there when he played for the Dragons (if I remember correctly). Also he brought Herbert over from there. Ninnis also brought Bruce into the team originally.

Injuries, bad losses and bad umpiring is the same thing we experienced last season so they are not an excuse either. The bad beer this season adds salt to the wound.

My opinion is that the sacking of Ninnis was a poor knee jerk reaction by management. If Ninnis was still here I reckon we would have Schenscher, Burston and Carter. As well as some other Australian talent and more importantly we would be having a winning season. Furthermore, due to the sacking of Ninnis we probably still had to pay out his contract, so if rumours are correct and we are paying under the salary due to this then that makes it even less sense to go into a new season with a less competitive team due to money reasons (I don't think we are paying under the salary cap). For these reason they should have kept him for another season.

I was optimistic at the start of the season and was listening to people that said Clarke was a good coach however from what I have seen so far is that he doesn't know how to coach at the professional level and coaches with an AIS mindset which is not good enough at the NBL.

If we turn everything around and finish these last 11 games in winning fashion and/or next season Clarke has a winning season, then ill be more then happy to say I was wrong however, sadly at the moment there is nothing this season that tells me that it is a better season then last years.

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where is J Bags?  
Years ago

correct XY these coaches have players wanting to come to Adelaide , last season players wanted to leave Adelaide.
That is part of the rebuilding that Marty speaks of. When a player is making a call of where they are going to play that they choose Adelaide because of the ethos that surrounds the club. That stuff doesnt happen at the click of a finger.

Sixers have DJ ,Balls, JD and Mitch on Multi year deals. Mitch is massive value as he is locked in at 1 point which gives huge value next season when recruiting.

So with those guys locked in for a total of 21 points that leaves 49 points for 6 players add to that Ng and Hill that leaves 38 points on 4 spots. Assume 2 imports means that there is 18 points available for 2 aussies. A pretty nice spot to be in and also adds to the rebuilding comments of Clarke.

Next years squad could well be

Ballinger, Import, Import, DJ, Mitch, JD, Ng, Hill, + 2 nine point Aussies.

Ng and Hill would be fairly sure to re-sign given their ties to the club

6/10 as a core group plus 2 imports still gives some flexibility to mold the squad for the future. i cant see anywhere were Clarke has said we have no plans on winning any time soon. I would say he is trying to win every game possible and has made moves to do so by imports being cut.

I think his plan is more around installing values and culture into the club which have been lacking for a long time.

Pretty confident that Clarke knows what he is doing.

do we have the grunt this season? yes i think we do 2 close loses to NZ and the OT loss to Crocs reversed and we are right in the mix.

We also lost to Cairns and Crocs on the road by 4 each time. That is 5 games we have lost with a margin of 2 shots or less. Not like we are getting belted each week.

Once this squad gets its groove on they will find the consistancy they need to win that is the only thing lacking IMO.

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Isaac  
Years ago

KJ and Spinner - so you want to sign players that are good enough to win championships but not quite good enough to leave to play overseas? Schenscher and Worthington are two players I would put in the "good enough to leave or hold out for better offers" camp.

The Dragons won the championship with Gibson (Boomer-level), Ingles (went overseas), Worthington (overseas at some point), two imports that haven't played here since. The Tigers won with Anstey. Even Mottram left to play in Europe at one point. They fully exploited points-cap loopholes with D-Mac and Corletto. The Kings won developing Worthington, Barlow, Kendall, etc. They also had Bruton and imports that have left the league to play elsewhere (Ere, Carrawell, Williams, Draper, etc). The Breakers are strong favourites this year with Penney and Bruton plus young guys coming through (Abercrombie, Pledger and Webster). They would and have supported national obligations for those Kiwi players even to the detriment of their team.

The two caps mean that you can't recruit only star players, you must mix quality players with decent local options, role players and developing talent (who are low on the points scale).

Recruiting Creek was a great move. Granting him a brief time away to attend a national camp is the right thing to do.

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thedoctor  
Years ago

OK - so the argument is now we shouldn't have signed Creek at all? Very different from EC's position that he shouldn't be released to rep camp.

KingJames, maybe you are referring to previous XY posts when talking about negativity surrounding the season in general, but XY's comments were focussed on the value of Creek and the deceision to release him for camp.

Getting back to that point - are you saying the Sixers shouldn't sign the most talented juniors? Because the might go O/S?

And it's not EC-bashing, it's an alternative view of an opinion posted.

My guess is every other club in the league would have signed Creek, and every other club would have released him for camp. It's not like he's asking for time off to go to schoolies week

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KingJames  
Years ago

XY, in regards to your other post that is not what I am saying at all. I am more refering to Clarke's mindset and things he has been saying in the paper.

Smyth was the coach that let Ingles and Newley go and he suffered later on as a coach because of it and it probably ultimately cost him his job. I am not saying to not develop Juniors but rather to get the best team you can and slot the juniors in with them, same as Dragons did with Ingles.

I very much doubt Schenscher or Worthington will go to Europe now as they will probably play out their careers here. Worthington is 27 and Schenscher is 28 hardly old men and would still have 5 or 6 seasons left (if they want to keep playing) enough to build a championship around.

Anyway Clarke choose Johnson over Schenscher for youth reasons.

The best case scenario for Creek is that he goes to Europe and the worst case scenario is that he ends up with Worthington type abilities and stays here. So why not focus on getting Worthington now. Not that Clarke had that choice but I am just saying that he should focus on signing the BEST current players and then if he can get the best juniors then that is great. Signing an average team and the best juniors in hope that they stay is wrong. Surely if we had a winning team then that in it self would encourage the best Juniors to come here so they are training against the best players In Australia and if they are good enough like Ingles was then they will get the minutes.

I would love to see Creek stay and become captain also but a player with that much talent I think european teams will be throwing an NBL team salary at him in years to come. Even if he doesn't become as good as I think he will be, I think he will at least be at the skill level as Liam Rush and will also head over to Europe.

Reply #305801 | Report this post


XY  
Years ago

KJ, I didn't realise that your view of Marty was so skewed by the rose coloured glasses you have on for Ninnis. I was far from his strongest critic, but in my view he had to go. I have seen more 'coaching' from Marty in the first week this season than I saw from Ninnis last year.

We will perhaps both stand corrected as to the respective value of those coaches in due course, but I am at least happy to give Marty one season grace (as I gave Ninnis) before jumping to conclusions about his coaching style that neither you or I can substantiate.

But even knowing your love of all things Ninnis, how does this affect my point? So Ninnis first 'found' Bruce. I never said otherwise. Was Ninnis wrong to sign a talented young Bruce because with hindsight after one year he might get married and go to the US? Doesn't the fact that he is now back in a Sixers singlet prove that letting him go and do his thing in the US was a good move?

Unless you are saying Ninnis should never have signed Bruce, and that Marty has repeated that mistake. If so, we will have to agree to disagree.

As for this season in general, bring on the young talent. I can promise you I prefer watching a hard-working group of young players with potential that lose more than they win than yet another cobbled-together group of veteran cast-offs that nobody else wanted that lose more than they win. We have had enough of that second type of team in the last 8 years of mediocrity.

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KingJames  
Years ago

Isaac and thedoctor, I totally agree about getting Creek and letting him attend a national camp. Thats not a problem at all. I am just making the point that we could have had a much better team this year as well as still got Creek and that Clarke has not done well as a coach so far. I promise you all if he has a great season next season I will be more then happy to say that I was wrong.

Isaac, aren't you proving my point by saying you need the best talent and put that with juniors to win championships and not relying on youth for a few seasons with an average team to start with? Perth were the same last season.

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Isaac  
Years ago

We will probably finish second to last this season...
Love the optimism. Second last Melbourne just lost by 18 to Sydney in Melbourne. Few were expecting playoffs this year but at least give your team a chance to jostle around 5th to 7th rather than writing them off now.

The schedule to come isn't that favourable (Perth twice on the road, for one thing) and Sydney are starting to get it done, but there's lots of time to complain about losses if and when they actually play out.

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KingJames  
Years ago

XY, I don't have Rose coloured glasses for Ninnis. I am just saying he deserved one more year and if he was here we would be doing much better then Clarke is currently doing. You failed to point out that Clarke also had the luxury of changing imports whenever he liked unlike Ninnis which effected his season.

If there was no Sydney and we ended up finishing last do we sack Clarke as well? Of course not.

The only point I was making about Bruce was that he was brought into the team by Ninnis. You didn't say otherwise but you didn't say that also.

Who are these veteran players that we have lost? Cooper would have been retired this season anyway with the inclusion of Schenscher. Groves would have been replaced with a new import. Burston is still a servicable player and has had a good season with no injuries.

Anyway I am just making the point that the negativity this season is warranted. We can agree to disagree and I hope we turn it around but so far we have underperformed this season.

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KingJames  
Years ago

Isaac, I was just being realistic. Do you see us winning more then 4 to 5 games out of the last 11 games with most of them being on the road? I hope we do but I just don't see it.

Tigers schedule doesn't look that good either but they have a few more home games. They also beat Perth in Perth and beat Cairns in recent weeks. We have two games against them here which will probably decide that position.

Reply #305814 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago


It's time to be realistic and look at the long term rather than always trying to capture something elusive such as the "perfect team".

Smyth was lucky, Clarke is being sensible.

And as for letting players go overseas, how many players that went overseas for a couple of seasons then came back to the club that "let them go". Anstey, Catallini, Maher, Gaze, (and several others I can't think of at the moment) all did stints overseas and returned to their "home" team. Do you think Bradtke would ever have played in adelaide again?

Reply #305815 | Report this post


where is J Bags?  
Years ago

KJ you dont realise that there would not have been a single player on the roster from last year had Ninnis stayed on do you.

Bruce only ended up here as ADL was the only club prepared to stump up the cash he was after at the time, nothing to do with Ninnis at all. Holmes is the only player that Ninnis recruited actively and he was the last player signed this season so what does that tell you.

and Wortho was not available to sign as he was going to Europe. He only ended up at the Blaze when they cut an import just before the season started.

Wortho will then follow the money and go somewhere else next season.

Reply #305819 | Report this post


xztatik  
Years ago

Relatively nsignificant news story turns into a great thread!

Agree with the arguments of j bags and XY.

Reply #305829 | Report this post


ankles  
Years ago

Just an outsider's observation (a self-confessed old fart with a passion for playing the game properly - give me a lay-up over a missed dunk any day!).

Clarke has shown more coaching this year than most of the coaches in the league - he actually instructs during the game and teaches. Puts him ahead of Wright, Robilliard, Westover, Gleeson, Lemanis and Fearne in my books and consequently behind only Beveridge and McLeod in the league.

Its a novel approach I know but one that I think will pay dividends in that players will want to play for Adelaide becasue they will improve as players (and yep - that means maybe they'll move on to a bigger payday but in the meantime you've got a bargain). How good does it feel when you buy something and instead of losing value it actually appreciates - that's a good deal right? So when Mitch Creek comes in as 3-pt player (cbf'd looking it up) and leaves as a 7-pt player you've got some value right there?

Players want to play for somebody who will help them get better - they'll even play for less if they think it'll help them get better. If you have a team full of players who all want to get better (and are being coached by somebody who can actually help them with that) then you can bank on competing almost all the time.

The imports are still a bit of a lottery but the person who is a teacher is also an identifier of character and can pick that a little more successfully than somebody looking to win NOW! At the same time, how many imports in the league right now can drag their team single-handedly to success? Some of them can drag them single-handedly to failure (or at least mediocrity - and look good doing it) but that's another story.

For the WIN NOW crowd, there was a coach in the US who once got a handy player who had never won - and built a team over a number of years which was pretty successful. Sometimes these things take time - if teaching was as easy as 'tell 'em once and they get it' then most coaches in all sports would be out of a job pretty quickly. Clarke seems to be be trying to put in place the right pieces. They're not all there yet but attitude and culture are important pieces. Even for a coach like Phil Jackson and a player like Michael Jordan - they weren't successful overnight.

Creek is obviously an important piece for the future and may move on to bigger things but who knows. If he's learning and developing he'll think twice before moving on and that's really all you can ask from a player. If he's not learning and developing then he HAS to move on the next pay cheque because that is all he has - his ability right now. And by bringing in star players and older players to a coach that only coaches (as opposed to develops and teaches) that is all you are getting - their ability right now.

Players talk and if Clarke is as genuine about developing players as he seems, you can expect a lot mroe players will answer the phone when he calls to recruit them over the next few years. That can only be a good thing for building a sustainably successful program in Adelaide.

There are some things which don't go out of style - Bob Turner seems to be showing that marketing is one of the them in Sydney and McLeod and Beveridge are showing that actually coaching is another one. I think give Clarke twelve months and he will be added to that list.

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Jonno  
Years ago

Amen Ankles great post!

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Gazza  
Years ago

Best post I have read for a long time!

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rock  
Years ago

Yep, I think Ankles has the big picture pretty well sorted.
As much as we all want local players (read 'my kid' in some cases) to get the opportunities, I think it is quite a balancing act to keep the fans happy, the sponsors on-board, and the local basketball community relatively content...

Reply #305869 | Report this post


Thank God for old Farts

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paul  
Years ago

I agree with ankles to an extent but Clarke is yet to show he can coach tactically with the top coaches in the NBL and also has some real limitations with the offences he has the team running.

But he is certainly doing some good things instituting a hard working culture at the club and deserves time to develop as a professional coach, it is a massive step up for him this year and I think the team will end up winning more games than last year.

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KB3  
Years ago

Clarke 2 - Bevo 0
Clarke 1 - Gordie 2

3 wins 2 losses against the 2 best coaches in the league yet Marty is yet to show anything?

bevo is a career 49% winner so if that is what it takes to be the best coach in the league Marty is doing ok.

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paul  
Years ago

Did anyone say he hasnt shown anything? He has struggled tactically overall, as you would expect from a rookie coach.

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KB3  
Years ago

paul" yet to show he can coach tactically"

yet he has more wins than loses head to head against the leagues 2 best coaches. What more does he need to do?

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paul  
Years ago

Well, I dont judge his coaching performance on 3 wins from 17 games, two of which were against injury depleted teams.

I look at the fact that he has struggled to get the best out of his players and the speed and effectiveness of adjustments to other team's moves. How stagnant the offence can be is another indicator.

Marty's comment that "the other team has a coach too" re: Ballinger's shot numbers was an indication of his tactical struggles, I havent heard Lemanis saying that about Penney, Beveridge about Redhage, McLeod about Ervin and so on.

I think the most important bit at this stage is setting a foundation, and he appears to be doing that well. Only time will tell if he can develop the nous to then make the team an elite one or whether another coach will be required to do that.

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Chewie  
Years ago


Ankles, "there was a coach in the US who got a handy player who had never won"

You lost me right there. When winning an NCAA and a gold medal at the olympics are considered to have never won, your point seemed flawed to me.

Reply #306053 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Build it and they will come.

Adelaide will be substance over style as long as Marty Clarke is the coach.

In 3 seasons they will be a powerhouse and players will want to play there.

Deal with it or move on.

A team like the Kings will continue to be a joke and the second coming of the violet crumbles. Their entertainment will be amazing, they'll have B Grade celebrities and a great court-side announcer, but they won't win.


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