Jack Toft
Years ago

Breakers vs 36ers, March 30

The Sixers are in the Auckland for their last game of this season. Our track record against the Breakers has been dismal, particularly in Auckland, and I would suggest the top of the table Breakers would be licking their chops at the prospect of Aussie blood.
Regardless of their last two games, the Breakers are minor premiers and they are not their because of their good looks, or suave manner. Going 11 and 2 at home is a enviable record (Wollongong and G Coast were triumphant) and the last home game of the season is one where the hungry fans demand not only a win, but sacrifice to the basketball gods.
Penney has been in sensational form all season. Averaging 31 mins a game, he has delivered 20.6 ppg at 45% and been deadly outside the arc. Wilkinson "Sword" has slayed his opponents to get 16.1 ppg and 5.6 rpg. The pain doesn't stop there: Bruton, Brasswell, Abercrombie (and Finch?) have all had great seasons. Vukona, Henare, Pledger, Boucher - will it ever stop?
Despite an impressive win record at home, 7 of wins have only been within 2 shots.
For the Sixers to win, they need to play a full four quarters without their usual brain fade. Penney needs to be on a tight lease all night and Aaron Bruce might be a good one to sacrifice on him. Abercrombie needs someone like Creek to just drag him around the court and get under his skin. I would love to see Dowdell battle Wilkinson. DJ should put on another fine display around the post, but will the umpires play both ends and be fair to him?
The result is likely to be a Breakers win, but if the Ewing theory is correct, the Sixers might just be stocking up on duty free Mumm to celebrate season's end.

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Isaac  
Years ago

Centrebet have Adelaide at $6.50 with a -12.5 line.

Don't know what to predict as usual with this team. Could play hard and surprise a team benching starters early, or could just be too undermatched at most positions and get blown out. This isn't the last regular season game for the Breakers so that might influence things.

If he can keep out of foul trouble, DJ should be alright on Wilkinson - stick to him at one end and then trouble him at the other. Holmes is a reasonable match up on Vukona.

Hopefully the win against the Blaze wasn't enough to sate the side. You know how some teams win their "personal grand final" and can't re-find that hunger again next week?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Good posts you both!!

And Jack, good to have you back firing up the keyboard. You seemed to go a bit missing during the 36ers drought - thought you were out on depression. We love your stuff.

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Jack Toft  
Years ago

No nothing like that mate, just letting others have their say!

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BJF  
Years ago

Whenever we are in NZ i think back to the 36ers giving the Breakers their first win, Maher's dog of a last game and Gilchrist putting the 36ers on his back only to have Groves miss a lay up. Lets face it Auckland isnt a happy hunting ground for the 36ers. Tonight is the night that that gets switched around. Lemanis has to much at risk if one of his guns goes down in a game that means nothing to the Breakers. I think he will rest the his stars long and often.

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Jack Toft  
Years ago

Yes, I am thinking a wise coach would protect the big guns for the final series. The result means nothing to the Breakers per se, and so I am thinking we could see them do just the bare minimum to be competitive rather than risk an injury that limits their chances of a flag.

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Big Ads  
Years ago

The stars have somewhat aligned for a possible sixers win. Lets not talk winning form prior to finals blah, blah, blah, why would the Breakers care about this game. I expect plenty of time from their bench players which might be inspiration enough for the Breakers. But.......I'd like to believe the Sixers starters are better than the Breaker's second unit.

I'm not a betting man but I am tempted to spill some cash on this one as I believe the sixers will win.

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PeterJohn  
Years ago

Might that be Fitch, Jack? Maybe NZ should give them a call about sponsoring the uniforms...

Looking forward to another shootout. Both teams give up lots of points. I doubt the Sixers have the defensive strengths to stop the Breakers scoring, just as they didn't with Gold Coast.

The key will be scoring and second chances. If they can keep the Breakers off the boards then they limit their second chances and stand a better chance of keeping them to a losing score. But that means not lettign the NZ guards get inside to draw defenders.

I think the Sixers have nothing to lose and a LOT to gain in this game, as players and as a team. I'm tipping a surprise upset and Sixers win by 5.

I'm even working at home so I can watch teh game when it starts! It's Big Kev time - I'm excited!!

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earth quake  
Years ago

if Lemanis doesnt rest his stars and doesnt flirt with his form will that mean you chumps will stop posting your dribble on this site.

New Zealand will pump them even with their bench on

Breakers by 24

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PeterJohn  
Years ago

Aaah, earth quake, I'm shaking...







...my head.

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Tru Blue Emcee  
Years ago

Is this game on onehd tonight or tomorrow night? I'm getting conflicting stories...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Tru Blue the game is on oneHD tonight at 5pm

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Tru Blue Emcee  
Years ago

Cheers Anon!!!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Breakers by 30.

They haven't played in weeks and their form has been average in recent times so will need to get back into form ahead of the semi finals, they'll put us to the sword I think.

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clarky  
Years ago

Wilkinson is OUT (Flu) for tonight's game, and Penney apparently went through a rigorous fitness test before the game.

Hoping the Sixers can pull off a win, would definitely be helpful for my bank account...

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Isaac  
Years ago

We're underway. Live stats.

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clarky  
Years ago

2 fouls on Rhys Carter in the first quarter...
That could be big down the stretch

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clarky  
Years ago

Decent game so far, with the Sixers clearly looking to pump it inside to DJ, and use quick ball movement to create open shots.

Breakers leading 30 - 22 at the end of the first.

On a side note, I have already seen Penney slip on the court decal in the key, as well as Bruce slipping over just over mid-court.

Is the court surface an issue? Should the league be looking into this to ensure no injuries can occur to the players??

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Isaac  
Years ago

Dowdell hits a couple in a row. Must stay in touch early.

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Big Ads  
Years ago

Big Ads smirks at the comments from "Earth quake" and then questions the appropriateness of the pseudonym

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Isaac  
Years ago

Lead pulled back to three. Breakers bring in vets Bruton and Boucher.

Both teams hitting at 60% or better.

Johnson moves to 17 points, two minutes clear of half-time.

Pledger with four fouls, means Breakers will have to go small from here for a while. Currently playing Boucher and Abercrombie as their bigs. Anthony and Vukona are their other options.

36ers don't wait to press the advantage. Johnson to 20 points. Adelaide within a point.

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shano  
Years ago

gee i cant watch game up here but DJ must be doin good again,pity he got splinters for most of the season.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

What the hell Shannon?

Don't foul the inbound passer!!!!

He just made a 3pt game, 5pts

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clarky  
Years ago

Breakers lead the Sixers by 5 at the half: 50 - 45

Eddie Shannon picked up a technical on a Breakers inbounds pass (1.2 secs on the clock) for stepping over the line.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

No, he actually physically fouled the passer

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Also, Johnson with 20pts at half time..jesus

Someone needs more time next year!

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clarky  
Years ago

Anon - The camera showed the ref turning to the score bench and signalling a 'T' on #14, so I would assume that means a tech was called....

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Isaac  
Years ago

I think it's an automatic tech if you foul the passer.

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KingJames  
Years ago

It wasn't that he fouled the inbounder but rather his hands were over the line which isn't allowed. Very stupid play by him but im not sure why he was even out there guarding the inbounds pass with 1.2 seconds left!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I think it was a technical for an unsportsmanlike foul, he did physically touch him (stupid thing to do Shannon)

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Anonymous  
Years ago

ah k gotchya

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Big Ads  
Years ago

3 points in 4 minutes..............must be the 3rd quarter

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Isaac  
Years ago

Johnson has 24 points and nine boards mid(ish)way through the third. Picks up another board - now has a double-double.

Third game for Johnson without Ballinger:

31 and 13
15 and 9
24 and 10 (in progress)

Need to pull the deficit back though because it risks getting unmanageable.

War of attrition as Boucher picks up his third foul trying to stop Johnson. Pledger and Vukona still on the bench with four each.

After a bad start to the quarter, it's 18-18 in the third. Shannon yet to miss a shot, though he's been very selective.

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clarky  
Years ago

The Breakers lead stays at 5 at the end of the 3rd.

For the Sixers:

DJ with 24 points, 12 rebounds
Dowdell with 11 points

For the Breakers:

Abercrombie with 23 points, 5 rebounds
Penney with 11 points

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Anonymous  
Years ago

DJ's not really making Marty Clarke look too flash these last few games.

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PeterJohn  
Years ago

Sixers run out of puff in teh 4th. The drop-oof in finishing around the basket let the Breakers get away and now the sixers offence has broken down. They'd better get a score soon or this could be a sad finish to a good effort for the first 3 quarters.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Can dj get a foul? Poor bugger is stuffed no match conditioning, gd work marty!

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Isaac  
Years ago

Anon, how's that? That he should've started him all along? Statistically, the 36ers were not better off with both Ballinger and Johnson on at the same time.

I think he's getting his numbers now because he is the primary guy on offence in the frontcourt. More space to move maybe.

---

Getting overrun now. Shame we couldn't keep it close. Scoreless in the fourth quarter so far. Almost seven minutes now without a score in the fourth. Doesn't look like the best game from Hill.

Make that 7:40. Finally a score. Could well set a record for lowest scoring quarter unless they pick it up.

Turnovers... 19 for the game.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Johnson 4pts in the second half..ouch

Hill's only really good for getting 20pts+ against NZ, shame that's ended..

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PeterJohn  
Years ago

So I'm really impressed to see all of those rules that seemed to have been ignored whenever I've seen other NBL games are being called tonight. Ball carriers pushing off, moving screens, hooking on teh drive. I thought they must have been removed from teh rule books. Good to see some refs calling them for a change.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

That was embarrassing

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Anonymous  
Years ago

29 points, I was a point off.

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Isaac  
Years ago

Played well for three quarters then an absolute blow out fourth. Harsh finale for a rough season. Congratulations to the guys on the things that did go well, and hopefully the off-season brings opportunities to work on and fix the other things.

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PeterJohn  
Years ago

Not really anon. Johnson was the Sizers' offence and he got tired. Once he got tired, they struggled to score. Adelaide played 8 deep (Daly only got 3 mins) and Breakers played 10 deep (Bloxham only had 3 mins). That made the difference in teh fourth quarter.

Breakers will have to lift their game in teh finals, especially defensively. Perth look good to me, against the Breakers who played tonight.

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Big Ads  
Years ago

Poor Hill. absolute nothing went right for him.

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KingJames  
Years ago

Isaac you can't seriously believe that the Sixers wouldn't have done better then 9-19 if DJ had started at the start of the season with Ballinger. The +/- is barely a reliable statistic. If it was we would have kept Cooper this season and according to +/- he would have been team MVP this season. If DJ is coming off the bench at a point when Ballinger is tired then that is not showing the effectiveness.

There is no doubt DJ's statistics have been better the last 3 games due to Ballinger being out but that never stopped Clarke from playing him 30 minutes a game when he was there to see what DJ could do.

Anyone that knew anything about basketball believed DJ should have been starting or at least playing decent minutes, if not for his ability then at least for the fact that he is the only center in the team. However the coach was too stubborn and didn't want to be proven wrong. An absolutely embarrassing poor coaching decision to go with an absolutely embarrassing season. Clarke is lucky he has contacts and will get some better players next season otherwise he would have been exposed as the lame duck coach that he is.

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Isaac  
Years ago

I don't believe he avoided (for 20+ games) running DJ and Balls together just so he wouldn't be proven wrong. 9-19 is being proven wrong, right? You'd take a better record over being stubborn if you honestly believed it to be a better option.

I think this goes in the "We should've played Sam Harris!" basket. You can talk about that all you want, but it didn't happen for a reason.

I reckon had we run them together, we would've given up more at the other end (well, more than we already did).

And this "only centre" business is boring. For half the game tonight, the Breakers ran and won with no "centre" at all. At one point, Boucher was their big. Yes, they had a fuller and more superior team, but the concept of centre in the NBL is not always what fans expect it to be.

Yes, I would've tried DJ and Balls together early on for the hell of it (even if only so fans could see it once and for all), but I'm not convinced it was the best option. For one thing, it takes the most vocal/leader starter out of the five. I just do not believe that a coach with so much on the line would purposefully ignore a particular combination without good reason. He sees the combinations at training daily too.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

well we have scored more points without balls. We haved spread the floor better without him, other players have actually taking shots. balls is a great player but he isnt our franchise player. lets hope we can get a great floor general eg gibson and plays 4 every 1 on the team not just balls. creek actually has a nice shot which only found out last wk. holmes can shoot.

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Beantown  
Years ago

We did look out of gas in the fourth and that's disappointing. Its not like any of these guys are being expected to play for 38 mins plus as stars commonly did when we played 48 min games.

We need to have a much fitter squad next season and to that end, it'd be nice if the injury bug copped a solid dose of Mortein.

I know there is a lot of things wrong with this team, but please, for the love of god Marty, get some guys who can shoot next season!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Harris is more of a novelty than anything at this point in time.

The one point i disagree with Isaac on, is our need for a centre. Watching games became ridiculously frustrating when we got smashed on the boards, whether it be only for a quarter or a half, but we would get mauled for a period that would cost us the game.

That, and the fact we can't defend the low post, we got murdered by Nevill, Kazzouh, Clark etc.


It also shouldn't be overlooked that this season, we couldn't shoot if our lives depended on it. It was an absolute shocker, and for a guard oriented team, it was surprising. Maybe we didn't move the ball enough to get open threes? I don't know, but that needs to be improved.

Getting an Aussie point guard who won't take up half the damn shot clock dribbling the ball standing still will help at least...


I am looking forward to the return of Herbert, keeping Carter and hopefully a miracle Gibson signing and as Isaac said, have a "brutal" defensive side.

They aren't too bad offensively either!

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orbit  
Years ago

Isaac & Kingjames i understand both your points but i think this is where Clarke gets in trouble. I remember Brett Brown put the best 1 2 3 4 5 combo together in Sydney & they fell short of the playoffs (Woodberry got injured as well). You can read too much into that sometimes. Playing Balls & DJ would be worth knowing the result but give it a chance to work. They are grown men (not AIS students) & sometimes the coach needs 2 remember its a game & enjoying it is important. I would hate Clareke as a coach, just like i hated Brett Brown! Shut up & let us play.....

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Camel 31  
Years ago

I think every sixer missed their lay-ups in the teams usual fade out in the fourth.
Didn't really look like scoring .
Bruce fed a few underneath and shannon eventually broke the duck.
Ball carrier, Bruce ,called twice for pushing off the guard ! Haven't seen that for a very long time.
As you mention , PeterJohn.
I don't believe they called a lot, the last time he was here , playing NBL , a few seasons ago.


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Isaac  
Years ago

Anon, not discounting the need for rebounds, but other teams are getting those board-crashers with Vukona, Petrie, Rychart, guards who rebound well, etc - not just centres. Johnson is averaging 12 RPG these last few games so he can get it done to some extent.

Tonight, almost on the GC and in the last Sydney road game, we've really been short extras shooters to close out games. We have our share of guards, but Carter is streaky, and Hill and Creek aren't really strong shooters. Would've liked to have seen a hypothetical season with Shannon, DeVries, Herbert and Ng fit all year to see how much it impacted results.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Isaac, DJ and Harris did not play because Clarke did not play them.

You can't merely imply that not playing them was the correct decision when you factor in how unsuccessful this season has been. Sure the coaches get to see the players at training but unfortunately we were never given the chance of seeing the 36ers run a big team...apart from 30 seconds when a simple high low play resulted in a Harris dunk.

Then when DJ starts as most fans were crying for all season he puts up good numbers and we look more competitive.

This who needs a centre business would be boring if Clarke's alternative was working but it was not.

Of course my comments are with the benefits of hindsight but our rebounding and defensive deficiencies because of a lack of height were exploited all year long.

You can get by with a lack of a monster in the middle if u have darnel mee like pg, a good rebounding sf like Cat, etc.

But we had short PGs, Ng and Hill who aren't strong defenders, etc. Ballinger provided great shot blocking but hardly clogs up the middle like a Dj or a Harris.

If the 36ers had played DJ for 30mins a game and Harris for 10mins a game and kept Ballinger, Holmes, Dowdell and Creek at the SF/PF position I am of the opinion we would have been a much better team.

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orbit  
Years ago

Agreed Anon but we'll never know. He's a head strong coach with a stubborn ego & he showed it again tonight. It was like an ABA side with Balls, similar to Kazoo & Sydney. Injuries impact all clubs & the back up must be solid. Imports - atrocious! If i were a pro baller i would not want to go to Adelaide!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Great call anon re dj n Harris. 2 mins on the court 4 Harris turns n dunks then that's it. As soon as play offs were out of reach Harris should have been getting some minutes. U can't improve heaps by just training especially against dj n balls who arnt that great at defending. I would start dj nxt yr n c how Harris goes over of the of season. We are ment to b a professional orginisation n Clark ment to b a great teacher so work wit Harris in the of season. It's not as if Harris is completely useless.

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MACDUB  
Years ago

Creek has a bright future..Im not doubting that..He has freakish athleticism and strength you cannot teach.
However, there are quite big holes in his game and one major issue that could hinder his career..(What position will he play?)

Obviously he is too small to play the 4 spot, but yet he does not possess the shooting abilities to play the 3 spot. Obviously, he needs to get alot of shots up over the off-season and develop his perimeter game.

For the Emus, he has played the 4 spot and excelled because he was able to use his speed and athleticism to exploit 'mismatches'(e.g. Albert Schweitzer). This is a professional mens league though, so that is unacheiveable here.

He actually reminds me of a young Tom Abercrombie..When he was 18, he was a terrible shooter and nothing more than a "volleyballer playing basketball"..He has improved unbelievably since then on his shooting, penetration (1st step quickness), shooting off the dribble and his handle

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The other issue I have is that although some of the young kids might like Clarke from AIS days, why would they want to play for him professionally after witnessing this season?

Ie Gibson. Why would you leave Gold Coast where you already are a Boomer playing major minutes with a coach who let's you play. In Adelaide you will be part of a 11 man rotation in a rigid boring offensive system where your numbers are likely to drop as opposed to increase.

I understand that DJ came to Adelaide expecting to start and play major minutes and this was a bug reason why Burston was not retained. Yet DJ is anchored to the bench and but for Ballinger's injury his bargaining power as a pro athlete is worse than it was last year.

If DJ has another year backing up Ballinger he would be crazy to stay.

Clarke was picked for his connections it appears as opposed to his coaching. It's just disappointing that there is not more money in the NBL where a guy like Clarke could be used as a GM to sign players with a better coach left to actually coach them.

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Isaac  
Years ago

I knew someone would raise Harris' dunk. I liked it too, but if he was good enough, he would play, he would've played meaningful minutes when he was with Perth, someone would've signed him rather than us trying him as an eleventh man roll of the dice. All we've done is postpone him trying footy for 9 months, IMO.

As I've said, I would've tried Balls and DJ starting too but I don't think it wasn't tried purely out of stubbornness. They may have tried that at trainings and found the bench killed them every time, etc.

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Skud  
Years ago

"the 36ers were not better off with both Ballinger and Johnson on at the same time."

Isaac I would say this is less about the players and more about how they were used. As discussed previously Balls was playing centre with DJ on the court, crowding the area.
If Clark had once tried balls as an outside shooter with DJ controlling the Centre I would love to see our record. The stubborness Clark showed was his inability to change the way he wanted to use players.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Unsure Isaac I think they expect Harris to b beta than he is. He is a ok back up centre. Should have got mins as soon as we couldn't make playoffs. I've seen big guys his age play gd/great afl games n the were very clumsy to start out. Give them games n they either will stand up or won't. I'm just saying if we can get him to b a ok back up start dj then we can concentrate on getting to gd shooters. A 7"2 big guy with ok basketball skills at our door step. Develop this guy n dj that's wat the coach gets paid to do!

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A  
Years ago

Isaac, I am really starting to get fed up with your cryptic Ballinger bashing. Well if the 36ers want to get rid of a 6'9 naturalized MVP runner up and possibly one of the best shooters in the NBL! Instead of getting good support for and around him, that would be simply the most foolish and laughable thing the club will ever do.

Oh, I forgot, players like Ballinger just grow on trees these days!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

A! It's not about getting rid of balls it's about not making him our key focus cause it hasn't worked. His a gary wilkinson type,not every play has to go through him. I'm all over keeping him like u said great shooter but can't rely on him to win u's every game n he has to accept he his a great role player not a match winner. Ervin aside no 1 really is. U have to play team b ball.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

We need to play Ballinger a bit like Nowitzki, his sweet jumper should be used a lot more.

Yes, offensively he can do it down low as well, maybe we can have him down there doing that while Johnson is on the bench for a rest.


Has anyone noticed we don't really have any decent plays to use? When we're down, we are REALLY down, like we don't even look like getting a shot up. We can barely move the ball at all at times.

The Spurs are just show you how to run plays, just from viewing them, you know their plays because they do it, and they do it often and very well. They get not just one, but two or three guys open in a single play even against the best teams.


We gotta have a few specific plays set up for just moving that ball around!


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MACDUB  
Years ago

The Breakers are a good example of a team that can still get boards without been too reliant on a 'genuine center'. Sure they have Pledger but the key is that they can get rebounds from their guards and small forwards..

Boucher, Vukona (exceptional rebounder for 6"5/6"6), Abercrombie, Wilkinson, BJ Anthony.

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Fizzle  
Years ago

Bugger i missed Brad Hills last game and Holmes as well, oh well season ended as it shouldve considering the team we put on the floor this season. Disgusting to be outscored 30-6 in the 4th quarter, am i suprised really based on the heart shown by this team this year? No, am i still mad as hell....YEP!

To buy new season tickets or not to buy season tickets.....im the customer, sell me on your product SOS, whos on the to get list....BESIDES Adam Gibson who everyone is aware of already.

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Camel 31  
Years ago

Let me put it this way .. Harris still looks very raw.
There's a bit there with the dunks, blocks and blocking the lane. Hill has no hope driving on him.
That's funny to watch.
But then he does a few silly things as well , and he's about 27.. looks a lot younger.. been around for awhile but still raw.
Might be worth trying him up in the forward goal square, to see if he can kick a few or a bitta rucking.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Agreed "A"!

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Isaac  
Years ago

I haven't said get rid of him, I said put the right pieces with him or it's just rinse and repeat for another season. My proposed roster for next year had him starting at PF with DJ as C.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Isaac, it would seem like you've been laying the groundwork on Ballinger potentially being let go for awhile now with all that +/- hocus pocus. It's the only reason I can think of you've been hammering it for the last month or so, like someone else said Cooper was the team leader for +/- last season it is next to meaningless.

I would hate to see our only good player in Ballinger let go and with everything that has been going on with the Sixers for the last few years if they did that it would be the final straw for me.

A few achievements by the 36ers in this game:

-The six points they scored in the 4th quarter was the lowest fourth quarter score in club history.

-Became the first team this season to give up 100 points in consecutive games.

-It was the 36ers biggest loss of the season and the biggest loss in a regular season finale in club history.

-The 36ers finished 9-19 the first time the club has ever failed to achieve double figure wins in a season. We actually went backwards this season as last season the 36ers finished 10-18.

-This season equaled the club's longest ever losing streak of eight consecutive losses.

-Spanning last season the club went more than 12 months without a win on the road.

-If not for the Kings coming back in would've won back to back wooden spoons.

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KB3  
Years ago

Thanks Boti

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Anonymous  
Years ago

once again l get drawn into this debut .facts dj young raw will learn .mitch young raw will learn .from this coachng team NO bloody way know .last night 6 points in 10 minutes of ball stevie wonder and ray charles would have scored more points and both are blind.wtf you say well the coacehs must have been blind not to see their game plan was not working.or as the big cat said get rid of all the players and let the coaches play with them self .the owners must be looking what is this crap nearly every weekwe falll apart 6points both looked like stuffed mullet. or yeah lets get rid of balls jacob ng herbert hill .that way we can start a baby nursery for the coaches to teach FFS people blame the right

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Isaac  
Years ago

The NBA provides +/- in all it's box scores and I thought it'd be interesting to do the same. It's just a stat, not a crusade. Years before, I produced HSA stats that, if anything, suit Ballinger very much.

That said, nor do I think Ballinger or anyone should be a sacred cow in a team that has lost for so long. I think results suggest that unless we put the right sort of players around him, we are wasting the prime of his career. The results show that there have been problems somewhere in our teams for a few years now, right? There are things more important than playing him at PF, etc. The mix of players is crucial.

No shit it's been an awful season. So was last year and other years before it. That's all the more reason to examine every perspective. I think Clarke underestimated the leadership and defensive problems when he assembled this team, and neither issue was helped with the loss of DeVries and Herbert. Someone will jump on this as evidence of Clarke sucking, but it's not like previous coaches or most fans have worked this out from watching a bit of tape or a pre-season.

Reply #313709 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

once again he picked the bloody team he picked all these young players did he think he was at the ais. HE new about the team and went out and picked players all by himself . has he once made fans aware of his tactics or lack of has he treated fans as arseholes my bloody word he has .AT any stage has he taken full blame for the way the team played NO instead he jumped on his high horse and blamed every one else .ISAAC you say this has been the same crap for the last few years well maybe the board should look at a proven coach and not wannabes some very good coaches missed out on a team the last few years .

Reply #313713 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I've said this about Isaacs posts re Balls all season! You tell us who is gonna come here after this season if Ballinger did go? (judging by the articles I have seen in the paper of late, his not going anywhere)but htpothetically speakin, WHO? What Big is gonna come here on Marty's stella reputation of knowing how to coach men? alongside the clubs ever so loyal reputation after this season and our pathetic import cuts!? Were LUCKY if we can manage to keep Balls. He was runner up MVP of the league last season FFS. Yeah, get rid of him so he can go to another team and tear us an even bigger one next season. Man Brett must be proud. What a joke. Isaac your attempts to sour opinions of Ballinger are falling on deaf ears around here thats for sure. Balls is all we got.

Reply #313714 | Report this post


Buttscratcher  
Years ago

Is it true that the coach flogs the team during the week on the training court, and that is why we run out off puff in the 4th and can't close out games all season?

Reply #313715 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Balls is all we got.
So, put the right players around him. It means cutting other guys - you know, the same thing you'd be saying, right!?

The roster I proposed the other week kept the contracted players (Balls, DJ and Creek), Carter and maybe Dowdell or Holmes (depending on points). It brought back Herbert (didn't play at all this year) and replaced the rest. Is that particularly outrageous? The targets were a mix of defenders and three-point shooters, including guys that could take on leadership roles and take shots in the clutch. The two imports were not key to the roster and were pretty interchangeable. The primary targets (Gibson and Barlow) were Boomers-level players. No new recruits were rookies.

And all this about young players - Johnson was one. And then Dowdell (not exactly a rookie) was maybe another, because he was four points. Creek only came into the team because of injury. Daly was a development player. Hill's been around a few years. The rest of the team are not young "AIS" players. It's just a meme that distracts from actual issues, like stubbornly running the team too hard during the week trying to build a team ethos.

Reply #313716 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Plus-minus from last night's game:

New Zealand

Kirk Penney (32)
Mika Vukona (25)
Paul Henare (18)
Alex Pledger (16)
Benny Anthony (14)
Thomas Abercrombie (12)
Josh Bloxham (9)
Cj Bruton (9)
Kevin Braswell (8)
Dillon Boucher (8)
Corey Webster (-6)

Adelaide

Tom Daly (-5)
Mitchell Creek (-8)
Jeff Dowdell (-11)
Aaron Bruce (-14)
Eddie Shannon (-18)
Brad Hill (-21)
Rhys Carter (-21)
Daniel Johnson (-21)
Jacob Holmes (-26)


And the final team aggregate for the season:

Tom Daly (+4)
Darren Ng (0)
Sam Harris (-1)
Brad Hill (-5)
Craig Winder (-16)
Daniel Johnson (-43)
Jeff Dowdell (-47)
Ron Howard (-48)
Troy De Vries (-57)
Aaron Bruce (-69)
Mitchell Creek (-76)
Rhys Carter (-79)
Eddie Shannon (-88)
Jacob Holmes (-112)
Adam Ballinger (-122)

Reply #313717 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

Bruce came on , swished a three , some nice feeds to Dowdell, looked pretty good.
Put the jets on CJ, but missed the lay up.
The fourth was anticlimactic.
We looked so very tired, physically, couldn't get lay-ups in.
Clarke's training is very tough.

(But, I remembered , last season , the team fade outs in the fourth (many) and our players thought they were pretty fit but said it was a mental thing, not being able to finish.)

Reply #313718 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

ISAAC wtf are you so fuxxxx obsessed with this minus and plus shit or what FFS give it a break what point are you trying to prove is you life so boring if so FFS get a woman or change the tune .NOT everyone follows + - crap .show great tactics by coaches .and get the fxxx of balls back you praise with one hand then back stab with the other .dont let you gripe with turn into vendettas you should be bigger than that.

Reply #313719 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I posted it because I have been doing it for the other games (of other NBL teams) and continued for those even remotely interested. Had I not posted one for games without Ballinger, I'm sure some hater (oh, you!) would've said it was because I was hiding that players still suck without Ballinger playing.

The NBA do it. Someone on OzHoops has calculated +/- for NBL teams this season also, with adjusted +/- as well. Many NBA stats sites do the same thing plus more stats as well. European leagues do something similar (with an efficiency stat). If you don't like it, ignore it or write emails to the NBA complaining about their use of it.

Reply #313720 | Report this post


Mutley  
Years ago

Nice post annon, you fuckwit. Isaac is just about the most balanced poster on here, and don't forget that it is primarily HIS EFFORT which allows this site to exist. As far as the +/-, he did it for a couple of games then everyone started asking for it to continue. And it IS a realistic assessment of what players and combinations of players is successful.

For me, I've said it in the past that I don't think Ballinger alone is good enough to win us anything. I wouldn't describe him as a great player, I think he is an exceptional role player. He's a fantastic scorer providing someone else does the hard work of setting him up, he's a below average defender and rebounder, an above average shotblocker, and is not a leader. He's also been our marquee player for four seasons, and we've been shithouse during that time. His place in the team should be examined closely. Johnson also showed in the past three games (when he actually got to play) how truly dominant he can be.

For me, I would want to keep Johnson, Creek, Carter, and Dowdell (and possibly Herbert), and then broom the rest.

Reply #313721 | Report this post


Big Marty  
Years ago

Anon #313719,

Try looking more than 1-dimensional when it comes to gameplay and players.

Unfortunately the +/- statistic is useful in determing what sets are your most productive and who aren't. It doesn't take away anything from players as individuals, but certainly helps determine who should run on court with another.

I thought the same as you about +/-; but you need to look past it an realize the that the value is their rating when playing as a team, and doesn't necessarily explain how good or bad they actually are.

And for the record, Analytics is becoming a bigger tool across all sports, better get used to it; cause every code will be using this sort of stat soon.

You can have someone like DJ come on during at 10pt surge in one quarter, then have him play the final where the opposition run 12 unanswered points. The team may still win in and DJ will finish with -2 +/- but it doesn't mean he was a bad defender nor a burden on the team.

Reply #313722 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Clubs use a similar method to determine their best combinations on offence and defence. I remember the scouting reports from when Smyth was 36ers coach that showed the best scoring combinations and best combinations for limiting the other team. Often it's not what your gut (or fans) would tell you. Players will also get shotcharts for players they will primarily defend, showing them the tendencies to score from particular spots or be less effective when forced one way or another. It's not everything by a long stretch but it is some part of the modern game.

Not 100% sure, but I heard that Darren Ng featured early in the season in the better defensive combinations, yet how many fans on here would've picked that? It becomes a pervasive meme that he's weak because he's not a tough, hustler like some players, yet he is pretty good at staying in front of his man, switching with awareness and draws charges better than most (shrewd flopping probably!).

When I started posting +/- stuff, I put up info with it about the limitations and noted that it might only be of interest to some people. There's loads of info about it (for, against, etc) on the net from very technical statistics sites. I also specifically posted about what can happen with +/- values for key players on a losing team, and checked the numbers (as an example) of Bogut on the Bucks (key contributor on a team under .500). Jon Brockman stood out (positive on a losing team) as perhaps an equivalent of David Cooper last year with the 36ers.

Anyone who looks at last year's +/- and thinks Cooper's +45 means I'm suggesting he was team MVP struggles with general comprehension.

That said, some +/- stats hint at things worth investigating further. Most striking this year to me is Coenraad at the Hawks who is -100 or worse despite being on a team around .500 and with teammates who are well in the positive (including Saville at over +200). He finished the year in a slump, but started well (50%ish from three, etc). Did he just suffer most in the run of losses when Saville was out (considering they roughly play the same position), or is he a problem for the team?

Another two are Scoines (toils hard for the Kings; maybe their equivalent of Trueman at the Cats) and Dickel (quite positive in a wooden spoon team).

Reply #313724 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Everyones got a right to discuss what they see for themselves on here. So Mutley get ya hand off it, Isaacs been swinging on Balls nuts! Just like he did Coops etc. Whats his beef with Balls? The FACT his brother wadnt wanted here and Balls replaced him so you try and plant seeds of bullshit his way? Tool. Karma on you mate.

Get over it I hope Balls hears all the shit Isaac spins about him. Ey and nice monitoring of language etc on here Isaac, your a real class act, well balanced, administrator.

ANd No its not cutting other players, they are off contract and free agents, they are free to be left or taken. It is about building a team with some TALENT able to carry the game organically around DJ, Mitch and Balls now.

Reply #313726 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

Isaac - as you may have gathered from my occasional responses to the +/- stats, I'm a skeptic. But, I wondered whether you've come across anyone looking at the +/- points per minute played? Or expressing the season aggregate as +/- points per minute per game. That might address the outlier problem I see in the stats. In particular, I'd be interested in what that does to Ballinger's stat relative to the other team members, given his large minutes per game.

Reply #313727 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

@mutley you have a problem with what lwrite that to bad as far as being afuckwit thats not bad looking at the team you picked to stay you must be next in line for a call up to the coaches box .then you can all play in kinder league in port adelaide maybe then you can all learn a thing or two

Reply #313728 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

PeterJohn, I think there are people doing this with NBA stats. They also account for the pacing of various teams, strength of teammates and opposition (on court at that particular time) - e.g., every single score is weighted. Working it out based on minutes played wouldn't be too hard - grab that season aggregate and the total minutes played from Sporting Pulse. Doing that more advanced stuff with weighting is probably a project for a dedicated stats person. I think you could probably do it with access to just what's available online, but it would take a lot more time.

Anon, keep believing that "brother" thing. Not sure what you gain from it.

Reply #313729 | Report this post


XY  
Years ago

Isaac can defend himself, but honestly anon, I can't see anywhere where he hasn't been moderate in his views and supported his views (however misconceived you may think they are) with some reasoning. You are free to disagree (as many do) but if you want any credibility attack the arguments not the person.

Balls is a very capable ball player, but he clearly has substantial weaknesses, one of which unfortunately is to keep being associated with losing teams. Is that his fault? Maybe, maybe not. But surely he is big enough a person to take some constructive criticism, and if not, then that is his problem.

As for +/-, at the end of the day it is just an interesting stat (like EFF) that only tells part of a story. Its main weakness is that in a losing, dysfunctional team, statistically the biggest minuses should go to those players who have spent the most time on court. The corollary applies to winning, successful teams, where the greatest plusses should go to those players who spent the most time on court. I personally think a +/- per 40 mins would be a better statistic, but that still relies on overall team performance.

So Ball's +/- stat is likely skewed because he is a starting 5 player who spent a lot of time on court on, lets face it, a shite team. It does not necessarily mean that Balls (-122) is a worse player than Penney (plus 200 something). But it does tell you something about the respective teams they are on.

Every statistic is only as good as the way you use it.

Reply #313730 | Report this post


XY  
Years ago

And complaining about language when you are the worst offender in the thread is just hypocritical.

Reply #313731 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

XY, there are at least two different anonymous posters here that you might be referencing.

Reply #313734 | Report this post


Loco  
Years ago

Isaac is correct.

Ballinger minus a proper support cast (defenders / leadership) = the last few season's results.

Ballinger with a proper support cast would be awesome.

With back to back horrendous years, no one should be off limits.

Once people calm down and look at things objectively, they may eventually come around.

I'm not saying cut him, I'm saying without the right pieces around him, strap in for more of what we're currently experiencing.

Reply #313737 | Report this post


hereschenes  
Years ago

Since when was Oscar not wanted here, anyway? IIRC, he left at the same time as the club was up for sale, or when Mal had just bought it. Either way, the club's ongoing existence was looking pretty shaky at the time and you couldn't blame anyone for looking for a more-secure position.

Reply #313738 | Report this post


Loco  
Years ago

Not to derail this thread further, but there's a significant disparity between the language and grammar levels of people reasonably discussing all options in an intelligent and objective manner and those verbally berating Isaac as apparently being unquestionably completely incorrect for espousing a differing view from main stream opinion.

Just sayin'.

Reply #313740 | Report this post


XY  
Years ago

Isaac, the anonymous poster who was complaining about language did swear twice in that very same post. That is just hypocritical.

Reply #313751 | Report this post


Ineedmore  
Years ago

I'm obvioulsy missing a bit because I wouldn't pick Isaac for a Balls basher (no pun intended). And I don't think he's ever said get rid of him. But like i said, maybe i missed something

If anything Isaac ticks me off by being able to find something positive about every player on this crap team.





Reply #313758 | Report this post


bretts the man  
Years ago

I agree with needmore that have not seen Isaac as a Ballinger basher or even a major critic of which there has been a lot over last month or so in particular.
I myself a massive fan can now see with what DJ has done over last 2 or so weeks and how little impact as our highest paid and best player Adam has had under pressure this year when needed and that is why these guys get paid more than the others .
I am happy for SOS to keep but if think can use money better then thats their call as no good just putting a band aid onto this team.
There is only one way to but up but a long way to get where we would like to be

Reply #313763 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

Thanks Isaac. Inspired, I've taken your suggestion to heart and done the following. Take your basic +/- for the season and scale it to +/- per 40 minutes played. I'm not sure how it will show on people's screens and hope it's not too much of a mess:


Player +/- Rank +/- Rank
per 40
minutes
Tom Daly 4 1 +1.6 1
Darren Ng 0 2 0 2
Sam Harris -1 3 -11.9 15
Brad Hill -5 4 -0.3 3
Craig Winder -16 5 -2.9 4
Daniel Johnson -43 6 -3.2 5
Jeff Dowdell -47 7 -5.7 7
Ron Howard -48 8 -8.3 11
Troy De Vries -57 9 -8.6 12
Aaron Bruce -69 10 -10.4 14
Mitchell Creek -76 11 -9.0 13
Rhys Carter -79 12 -5.4 6
Eddie Shannon -88 13 -6.2 8
Jacob Holmes -112 14 -6.7 9
Adam Ballinger -122 15 -6.8 10


I found it interesting to see not much change at the top, aside from Harris dropping down. Very interesting to see the bottom 5 all move up at least 5 places. Carter moves up 6. That reflects that these guys play big minutes in a losing team. The Sixers collectively were -5.3 points per 40 minutes played, only 1.5 points ahead of Ballinger's individual average.

I was a bit surprised at how far Bruce dropped in the ranks and how low his +/- per 40 mins was.

Reply #313811 | Report this post


PeterJohn  
Years ago

Oops - I meant "bottom *4* move up at least 5 places"

Reply #313812 | Report this post


Spur  
Years ago

The other anon(s) ruin the value of my own posts, so i'm going to use a name to differentiate myself.


Isaacs proposed team looked pretty good on paper really, however i still think DJ/Balls isn't really enough rebounding wise and defensively for the 36ers.

There were so many times that the 36ers got absolutely murdered on the boards that i feel we really need more height, keeping just our two tall guys isn't going to really help much in that area...

The interesting thing however in Isaacs team is, it includes Barlow a pretty tall guy, and with Herbert and Carter defending, those guards/small forward might not be able to get some of the easy rebounds we've let them have. If DJ with the extended amount of time can collect 10-12 rebs per game, then i can see it possibly working.

If we're going to have rebounding/big defense as a bit of a liability, (similar to those years where we had Rychart/Maher/Farley), then we need to seriously get our guard situation right i'd say.

Dorsey i think is a bit of the x-factor in the team, watching him play against Adelaide, i have to say that could work well in this type of league.

Everytime i look at Isaacs proposed lineup, i like it more and more and it's very possible to win where rebounding/tall D is a bit of a liability, as the 36ers have shown in the past (finished 3rd/4th for a few years in a row).

However if it back fires, i don't know how much i can take of our team getting smashed so easily on rebounds. Especially when it was pretty clear from the beginning that we were undersized. Maybe hitting shots and better defense changes the perspective a lot!

Reply #313813 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

PeterJohn, fixed up the display of your data slightly. Solidifies my preference of Carter over Bruce a bit. Hill's number is still a mystery as he's played a fair few minutes but on paper or even watching games you wouldn't always pick him as a net positive.

Reply #313819 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

At this game , of our 4 point guards , I liked Bruce.
Somebody said, ' I'd like to mention that Aaron Bruce, another great point guard that Australia keeps producing, is doing a wonderful job at guarding Penney.'

Reply #313841 | Report this post




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