ouch

Tess Madgen and Jess Foley are not netballers. Brad Hill, Jeff Dowdell, Jacob Holmes or any of the dozen other male professionals are certainly not chasing football careers. For most players and coaches its another full time job and the standard is very good, not SEABL good but good nonetheless. Follow one of the better teams (men or women) and their players for a week and I think you will change your tune pretty quick.

madeinchina have you actually been to any ABL Games this year? Most stadiums have a decent amount of people go watch.

What other state level sport has live stats? The errors made are minor and rare, also you must remember that the people doing it are volunteers.

BSA have no idea on how to promote it.

Clubs have asked for and been refused 27 week seasons for 4 years at least.

BSA made the decision to remove our league from ABA , hence none of of teams go to the national finals.

Playing in sub standard stadiums makes it hard to get people to come.Last Saturday nigh, p**sing down with rain, would you go out to some games .Seriously, the arguement on footy ovals being different is a poor one IMO, as FIBA changed the keyway, the three point line and people have to make changes in line with rules.

14 second shot clock not implemented due to BSA stuff up in 2011.

Come on, no one wants the game to go backwards, but seriously, if the governing body can;t get their act together, why would people support it.

BSA think ABA/ABL whatever you call it, is a big fat pimple on their backside and would have a big sigh of releif when the season is over and they have the profits from the Grand Final counted and safely in their bank account, and then they can go back to having more working groups etc

i am with you here 835 BSA - do diddly squat to promote the highest state level of basketball -
too many old dinosaurs running clubs with no initative no vision no attempt to consider options.Stadiums that are such a standard, for there elite level. Courts with old markings - why are they all the same - appreciate court size harder to change.
Changrooms at some stadiums non existent.Canteen facilitates / score boards / shot clock mal functions -
Any chance any news about ABA in the advertiser - nothing never jack sh....
still dont know why national anthem not sung - we live in australia - nothing wrong bit of pride
juniors promoted but never recognised
needs huge shake up.

IF YOU'RE NOT INTERESTED IN A RANT DON'T READ ANYMORE!


I am going to sound really negative here, but having been involved as a Volunteer at ABL level for the past 14 seasons, I think I can comment on what is happening.

Even with a Salary Cap, ABL Teams are still a biggest drain on a Club's finances every year, so not sure how to 'promote' the games if no-one is interested in either attending the games, thereby paying entry fees, or actively helping out their Clubs.

There is a reason us "dinosaurs" are still involved at the Clubs, I doubt there would be enough volunteers to run a game, without them. Most Clubs seem to have the same people involved doing multiple jobs on game nights, majority with no perosnal interest in the teams (apart from wanting to help and their children having played the game at some stage)

And because the total crowds at ABL games are around 500 people (for a full round of 5 games) there is no way that is getting any more publicity in the Advertiser. It really is a minor sport, in the scheme of things.

The usual suggestions of having a Senior Night at the most Central stadium (Wayville) isn't a workable idea either, in my opinion, as it would most likely be that Women would play one night and Men another, thereby halving your home crowd. There wouldn't seem to be anyway to have 5 games on one court in one night either, plus if games are mid-week I would really not want to commit to helping out Senior Games at 9 or 10pm, and I'm pretty sure the players would get sick of it too. (Just ask the people that play Division 2 to 5 how they feel about late games mid-week).

Nevermind about the complexity of working out income sharing of Door Entry or Canteen/Bar takings. Do we 'AFL' this, as in Collingwood get 18 games at the MCG, and because it is Forestville's home stadium and they get decent numbers to their home games, and South have the Panther Army, do they get all the earlier times to maximise revenue at the Canteen/Bar, and because Southern, Eastern & Centrals have to travel the furthest, therefore less likely to have supporters turn up, get the late court times!

ABL these days is what it is, the highest level available in the state, unless you want to go to Mt Gambier and SEABL, which is only for the guys.

There just isn't the Sponsorship available these days to improve the level of players competing, especially since ban on Cigarette advertising (I thought the additonal Tax Money on Cigarettes was supposed to replace money lost in Sponsorship, do Quit even sponsor Sport anymore at all?), plus the advent of the Power & Crows has also taken money away from other sponsors.

I have seen Sponsors list from the Club I am involved with, dating back to the late 80's, when the Club had 3 major Sponsor's (Mens, Womens & Juniors) as well as up to 20 other Sponsors, including a Cigarette company and two Car Yards (who both still exist but now Sponsor SANFL Clubs), even a few of the minor sponsors then are sponsoring SANFL Teams, which are a far higher profile than ABL.

END OF RANT!!!

It's frustrating but reality and I think the ceiling for ABL in the current climate has to be realistic also. Level of play is about as good as it would get considering, venues are too expensive to dramatically improve, etc. So, I only really have three points:

- enjoy it for what it is - court side seats to two games for the price of a beer.
- create game threads on here to preview games and encourage people to go along, support Jack in his weekly threads, etc - not going to get thousands along but better than nothing.
- it'd be a good opportunity for a rookie PR/promo/creative company to get involved with free services to try and boost the league in any way. If you know anyone in that position, suggest it to them.

And a very good rant it was! I enjoyed your perspective but beg to differ.

Perhaps we are in the mess we are in because of you dinosaurs and there's never been a better time to blood young or new people to see if they can make a better fist at things. There are definitely dinosaurs that have created nice pocket-money for themselves by laying claims to all and sundry that they are indispensable.There are several clubs undergoing near death experiences as I write because committees fear the aftermath of losing losers.

Dinosaurs don't get juniors to games, couldn't run raffles or provide entertainment and fail to sell the product full stop. They yearn for what was, not for what could be. Dinosaurs don't understand technology, don't use it and live in memory of king Cole and stadiums long since dead and gone.If you can't get juniors to the ABL, you don't have a product worth shite or you don't have committees worth shite. There is no way around that and that's why the dinosaurs must die!

The problem is however, these dinosaurs are carnivorous and eat up every new comer and volunteer that dares to cross their paths and spreads the word that the meal they just had was rash, impetuous and had no idea. Challenges to committees are littered with the carcases of naive new blood who might have moved the game forward.

Would playing in a central venue improve our game - yes I believe so but to get dinosaurs to part with their bones is another story. Should we play ABL games in country venues every so often? Absolutely! Forestville vs Sturt in Forestville's country stronghold and vice versa. Dinosaurs don't travel!

There's money out there for a sport that has legs to die for and bulges that make fair maidens weak at the knees. I could sell it to a dozen sponsors and so could any of the better advertising houses around town. Have the dinosaurs ever costed it? Have they ever asked each other could they finance it collectively? I doubt it. Did the brontosaurus's ever think of getting teams to take promotional work for companies, do they know what it is or how to arrange it?

There are countless ways of attracting sponsorship and creating interest. Are we on Facebook? can you get sms scores? Has anyone packaged profile packages to the Messenger, sent naked photos to the advertiser,adopted a charity, called Foxtel or sent a deputation of the the best bodies on the planet to sponsor's doors to find dollars? Have the ABL asked Jack (I hate the bastard) Toft to send his stuff to the messenger press or why aren't our dino's getting a spot on the Rowe / Cornsey sport soapy once a week and pushing, pushing, pushing our game?

The club dinosaurs will tell you that nothing will work, there's no money out there and they know because sixty years ago they checked.

877 - well put - but how so we get these doinosaurs to see that the world has changed. Y

I know quite a few statisticians, and to imply that they dont try to get it right is ludicrous.

Many of the ABL statisticians have been involved for many years, and have worked at NBL / WNBL level, international games, even things like the Olympics and Commonwealth Games.

Human error occurs in stats like it does in EVERY aspect of basketball (have you ever played / coached a perfect game...never missed a shot/rebound/pass, never fouled another player?)

Most clubs now have LiveStats working every week and broadcasting live. The fact it runs through a FIBA server means there is some loss of control.

You also have a go at LiveStats and blame ABL for this. They had no say. It is a FIBA system that also involves tournament management and compiles stats at the end of each round.

You made some good points, but I think you could have gone without having a go at some of our important volunteers that make the game happen.

Would you like to elaborate on these perceived mistakes, or hide behind anonymity, deriding our club volunteers and not actually backing up your claims?

Perhaps people like you are the very reason why clubs cant get bench help!!

Answer, think you are off on a tangent but why be so defensive about errors that occur rather than ensure they are limited. I'm involved with footy stats and there are many more stats to record than basketball which tell you so much more. A friend coaches netball and her stats assistant can produce, in an instant, a picture of each player in the team across a set of criteria.

In fact, although basketball led the way with stats for a long time they got lazy, didn't improve them by improving them over time and were surpassed by other sports.

One bug of mine is assists and how they are recorded.I've seen assists given with a bounce included and not given when a pass from the back court hits a forward who scored from the pass.I watch guys week in week out pass good balls to donkeys and the pass is unrewarded. Dinosaurs think that's the way it should be but I want to know who can pass and who can't catch or shoot for numerous reasons.

Like contested and uncontested marks recording has revolutionised the way we look at players, basketball needs to look at 'should have been assists' by which I mean, player X makes a fanatstic pass to player Y under the hoop but player Y misses. you need to have a stat that tells you how often player X makes successful passes IMO. Stats for tap aways , Stats for forcing an arrow change etc etc. Me thinks however you are probably a dionosaur who thinks he can store all that in his cranium repository and that players don't need reinforcement of good play.

Bottom line is that mistakes are not the issue but an unwillingness to make things better is. If you read any of this as criticism of individuals that's regrettable and unintended. We stand poles apart on the comments you made of the above poster because I believe dinosaurs guard their territory well and dismiss all criticism as being from troublemakers and never address the issues because they don't have to.

Hey, I'm all for including more stats and changing definitions as the game evolves. However, it would probably also need to include changing the make up of a stats bench (I would assume) to be able to count everything that occurs. Given the lack of volunteers already, I cant see that happening anytime soon.

I'd also like to point out that ABL statisticians, sheesh even the NBL/WNBL statisticians dont make the rules as to definitions of what is an assist, or bringing in new, and deleting old stats categories. Nothing to with it at all.

So blaming ABL for something that is done by FIBA committees is a bit harsh. Having a go at our club volunteers for doing what they can, with what they are given is also harsh.

As far as an assist when there is a bounce, my understanding is it is about the intent of the passer, and the result. If the passer makes a bounce pass, and the shooter has a bounce and shoots and scores, that should be an assist, as the intention of the pass was to score (you could argue that is the case with any pass, but we all know it's not).

The back court -> front court scenario you suggest should also be an assist. I'm not sure how you know this hasnt been given one though, unless you sit on the stats bench (I have done so a couple of times, and have been amazed at what has to be done throughout the game, especially a fast paced, heavy rebounding style game).

Is there a reason the Answer makes sense and Upsidedowncake is a mess? I think so - it's about understanding the ingredients that make up the product. If you think the best people aren't out there doing the best for the club, you're deluded and the game doesn't need or want you. If you think you can help, I doubt there'd be any club who'd reject you. I, for one know how difficult it is year after year to get committed help. And as for stats, you're way off base and show no comprehension of the serious application shown to FIBA rules and club expectations.

I cant speak for other clubs, but tonight every time we tried to start webcasting the program would crash.

Unfortunately in the game time arena, I cant stop and check if it is software or computer related. I had to make the call that we could not webcast. The fact that almost all other clubs didnt webcast would suggest there was an issue somewhere other than the local computer.

I cant speak for other clubs, but tonight every time we tried to start webcasting the program would crash.

Unfortunately in the game time arena, I cant stop and check if it is software or computer related. I had to make the call that we could not webcast. The fact that almost all other clubs didnt webcast would suggest there was an issue somewhere other than the local computer.

$10,000 between the clubs would e more than enough to start a good online promotion, along with adverts in local street press and posters/flyers... It wouldn't take much to put something together and improve the turnouts to games, which in turn will help with improving stadiums such as St Clair, North and South.

Ricey,

The problem is that the increase in crowds would hardly cover the ongoing cost. And the CLubs dont own the stadiums, so any after any upgrade they could be kicked out anyway.

Ricey, I doubt South and North need anymore people to turn up to the games, it is packed as it is. Woodville could move it to court two and have stands on either side though if the numbers were increased.

Actually, scores were in the paper this morning. Nice change.

What Junior or ABL results aren't up? I'm sure Junior games results from last week will be up this week and the same as the ABL results will be completely updated in the next few days. Just wait a few days. Its the same every week that there will be several days before it is totally updated.

They dont need more staff. Then need more staff doing thinngs that matter and generate more income.

Why would clubs give more money to an organisation that refuses to use its DO's to put kids into clubs.

Each team makes BSA about $4K per year in game and rego/nomination fees.

But they continually claim that it is not their job to help clubs recruit kids. If they increased team by 10 each ear they would have $40K per year and would be able to use that money to do other things.

So Mouse, BSA are the problem by under-servicing the district scene in the vain hope the association model works even though population, interest and costs mitigate against it?
What is the the D O's brief? Surely it's wider than mini ball and child minding association sessions?
Is BSA the clubs or is BSA now just a body who controls what the clubs can and cannot do?
Do the district clubs all agree with the direction or lack of it BSA are steering?
Do the clubs have a say in the formation and acceptance of new district clubs, like magic etc?
Are the clubs happy with BSA?
Are the positions within BSA tenured?
Has any movement in staff at BSA ever occurred?
Is BSA accountable to anybody?
Should S A country be the ruling body because the tango 'aint working?
How many people in basketball could answer the questions correctly? How many parents of district players have a clear picture of the workings of basketball in this state?
Basketball in South Australia works on a 'needs to know' basis either by design, probably not, but by it's failure to inform and embrace openness.
Maybe anonomouse is right, they don't need more staff just some new staff.