Anonymous
Years ago

ABA Finals Refereeing

Know for a fact that there is an inane rule that says if an umpire has umpired 50 or more games at NBL level then he/she cannot umpire ABA finals.

This game from an experienced SA referee who umpires at NBL level.

What an absolute farce!

This means clubs who work their arses off all year potentially have the rug pulled out from under them in a one off finals game due to inexperienced reffing.

Also the last thing some of these refs need is to think they are too good to umpire ABA..

What a joke. Wonder who made that dickbrain decision.

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G.....T  
Years ago

Some anonymous person

Reply #326439 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Won't made a difference even the experience mess everything up. I wonder if both norwood teams get to the grand final they will do the same thing they did to west last year and screw them over too

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Filthy Mexican  
Years ago

If these refs get all the big games at the abl level then when they retire there will be no experience left. Although I don't agree with the rule I understand where it comes from. I think a 3 ref system for all finals should be mandatory with 1 ref that has refereed at NBL/WNBL level to encourage experience and development, while the others should be upcoming panel referees with at least 2 years of abl experience

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Filthy Mexican  
Years ago

If these refs get all the big games at the abl level then when they retire there will be no experience left. Although I don't agree with the rule I understand where it comes from. I think a 3 ref system for all finals should be mandatory with 1 ref that has refereed at NBL/WNBL level to encourage experience and development, while the others should be upcoming panel referees with at least 2 years of abl experience

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Best please  
Years ago

So what your saying is last weeks umpires were mcd , durant , domeika and dan Troy
It could have been Haines , mcd , filmer and durant

No offence to the two up and comers but best available should be used surely

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The Answer  
Years ago

I think that should be 1 NBL experienced ref (if available) and the most deserving (on skill, not suck-up ability) ABL level ref.

Last regular season game, the Norwood vs WEst Men's game had Weiland & Durant. Was a well reffed game, however neither team has probably seen that combo all season, and wont for the finals.....doesnt make sense.

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Not sure  
Years ago

Who makes the decision not to use NBL ref's ?
Even though they give service all season
Don't think they think they are too good for aba except maybe the NBL ref they are using

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I beg to differ The Answer - it was a far from well refereed game

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The Answer  
Years ago

Ah well Anon....I guess your West boys will have another chance to try sometime.

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come on!  
Years ago

Who is on this weekend, not up on the web yet and I am keen to see who is on the big game

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I Spy  
Years ago

As filthy mexican stated the rule is to try and have some sort of succession plan to allow more officials to get finals experience. Like with everything there are ofcourse floors. You need to have the required depth to cover the absence of filmer and haines.
The idea of using three officials has continualy been put to the clubs and rejected for two main reasons. The first is the extra cost, the second is the clubs were concerned that with three officials the games were called differently to the way they had been all season.
I have been told that both filmer and haines wanted to officiate finals, and in no way do they believe they are too good. If that was their thought process they wouldn't officiate at all.

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anon  
Years ago

Filthy Mexican said that when "these guys" retire there will be no one to take there place.

are nbl ref's in there 30's honestly going to retire soon?

how many ABA finals would Geoff Weeks & Michael Butler have done while they were doing NBL, however I think that others like Ean Turner would have also done some finals.
would these statistics be shown somewhere?

perhaps a good stat to have on the bsa website

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Referees for this weekend:

WOMEN

West @ Norwood - Maidment & Durant
Forestville @ Sturt - Devlin & Domeika

MEN

Forestville @ Norwood - Wieland & Troy
West @ Sturt - McDonald & Just

Good luck to all officials and have a great call!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

So they have a rule about NBL games which stops the states two best officials (Haines & Filmer) from refereeing CABL finals.

Yet an ex-NBL referee is still eliagle for finals games. Granted he only refereed 28 NBL games but he doesn't need the finals experience for development purposes right? Does finals games help him take the step back up to National League level? I doubt it.

Also if its about development why include a referee who is not only over-rated but also contributes nothing to other levels of basketball in SA and is way too old now to take the step up from CABL to WNBL?

Based on the appointments of these two referees I fail to understand the development claims made earlier in this thread.

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Filthy Mexican  
Years ago

You can't blame the rule for how it is being implemented. The concept of working through less experienced referees is a good one in theory. To ensure the same referees are not refereeing the big games all the time. There are some really good officials out there that deserve an opportunity to land a big game but there are also a number that shouldn't be rfereeing at the under 12 division 4 level. Ideally we would see the quality young officials doing the big games as an oppertunity to develop. If the powers that be don't implement the rule in this fashion it isn't the fault of the rule, but rather the narrow-mindedness of the people in charge

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anon  
Years ago

FM, the trouble is that there is no problem with implementation.
NBL officials are not allowed to do finals.
They then pick the next best eight officials which includes some who are not quite up to the standard.

If they did not use Maidment & Just then they would be giving finals to young kid's who have basically nil experience in regular season games.

That is my take on it anyhow

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The problem is one NBL referee is. The other two aren't because one person has decided he knows what's best.

The claim has been made that Filmer & Haines are exempt from Finals to allow the next tier referees to gain valuable experience.

If that is true then why are Maidment and Just being used?

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anon  
Years ago

Certainly when people in power make these kind of decisions they don't think about what we would want (clubs) because I am quite sure that every club would want the best available on finals.

MikeG - ask the clubs if the want the best or the next best?

IMO having younger, less experienced on finals for development is ok If!!!! they are ready for the standard and outstanding potential.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Well by that theory if you want the best refs why doesnt every state just fly in Butler and Aylen for their finals as they are the top two in the country. Yeah let these guys do every final in every state. That would do wonders for morale in refereeing ranks.

The theory is as stated to give others a chance and experience in refereeing finals. I gather Maidment and Just are the next level below Filmer and Haines. It would be discrimination not to select them for finals if they fall within the policy.

If all states dont start to give the next level/tier down opportunities, retention of officials will be the next major issue as no one wants to referee 2 games a weekend all season and then have "elite" officials rostered to the finals who have only done a handful of games.

Haines for example got his chance at NBL finals this season and has done WNBL finals for the past few years. That's where his goals should be now not at the CBL.

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Libertine  
Years ago

So I guess we shouldn't let the NBL players playing ABA to play Finals then, because they've had their chance?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Bench NBL players play. I dont see Ball's lining up in CBL! Without knowing game totals I'd expect the likes of Filmer and Haines dont referee every weekend. If they do then i stand corrected but if you give the same people the good games all the time how does a younger less experienced referee develop and get finals experience?

NBL "bench" player go back to the CBL to actually play. Get more experience etc. The CBL like SEABL, like WABL, like Big V and QABL are development leagues. For players and referees alike. All these other leagues as far as I am aware enforce this 50 game policy. You dont see the SEABL and Big V using Aylen, Hunt, Mills or Kirsten on their finals. And quite frankly I doubt they would want to.

Giving the same experience referees the games year in and year out does nothing to develop the group below or try and get someone who has already dropped out of the elite leagues the chance to improve and qualify for NBL or WNBL again. Every one wants referee's to get better but without providing opportunities how are these referees going to improve and get big game experience.

In my opinion people who advocate for the "best referees" available arent looking at the sport as a whole and whether they like it or not referee development and opportunity is part of the entire picture.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

And to add to Libertine's eloquent statement, the amount of NBL players you can have at the ABA level is determined by how many minutes they play in the NBL. So like the referee 50 game policy if a player plays more than 20% game time in the NBL (from memory) they are classified as imports in the ABA.

So there are restrictions on referees and restrictions on players.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Of course you don't fly referees in from interstate but why stop two South Australian born, developed and locally residing referees from refereeing in their local competition?

I have no issue with using Maidment and Just on Finals games if they are deemed up to standard. My issue is that we are preventing this states best two officials from refereeing for devlepment reasons but then using two referees past their time.

How does that make any sense at all?

If Filmer, Haines, Maidment and Just all did games in the CABL and met their requirements for the year then all should be considered for finals.

At the moment some are being descriminated against for development reasons and others aren't.

The result being one possibly two referees are doing finals before their time and as was shown last weekend, they aren't quite up to the standard required come finals time.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Then you might as well just put Haines and Filmer on every grand final in SA from U12-U20 Championship, CBL Women and send them to every junior National Championship as all those teams deserve the best possible South Australian born and Developed referees available!!!!

I would also expect that South Australia like every other state use an order of merit to select referees for finals appointments based on referee coach evaluations throughout the season. I would then expect that once Filmer and Haines are removed from the order of merit the next highest ranked officials are appointed to finals. The policy isnt discriminatory it's in place to try and create opportunity. Hence try, there will always be anomalies within any system. The same occurs in Victoria for instance where senior officials are still eligible for finals who dont fall within the 50 NBL game requirement such as Ron Clarke and Melissa Andreola but that state uses 3 person which helps in the development of referees.

The bottom line is if you dont create opportunity you will lose referees on the next rung below. Filmer and Haines are in their mid to late 30's. They could both if they wanted to referee for another 10 years. On current talent in SA they will probably be ranked 1 & 2 for the next 10 years. Are you going to appoint them to every CBL grand final for the next 10 years? That's ridiculous.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The same referees that did games last week, are also doing games this week. I would like to know who isn't up to standard, because if they weren't I would assume that they would have been replaced this week.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Obe ref has been moved from men to women

Reply #327037 | Report this post


balance beam  
Years ago

Filmer & Haines did about 3 or 4 games each so therefore would be ineligible for finals

catch 22 don't use Just & Maidement proven reliable high level referees and use say Frost and Gillings you would have the same argument why use rookies when you have experienced referees available.

IMO this discussion is going around in circles for the haters no amount of discussion will convince them that this is a good policy for referee development not using Filmer & Haines.

it goes down the line you rarely see McDonald, Wieland, Durant do Div 2 finals you won't see them do U23 finals, that will be left to the Frost's, Northcotes they have refereed the comp for the majority of the season they should be rewarded as the best referees available who have ref'd majority of games. Same goes for juniors and down the line.

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balance beam  
Years ago

also too my knowledge, sports such as cricket don't bring back test umpires to do local finals.

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dont like it  
Years ago

Balance beam
Durant, Wieland and Mcondald do not do finals for under 23 or div 2 because they referee all year round at some level.

Wnbl during summer & ABA during winter

The NBL guys of which there are only two in SA also referee all year round

They do NBL/WNBL in the summer
They do ABA (the top comp in SA) during the winter.

At the end of the day if they do enough games through the winter to qualify for finals (which I believe both have done this year) then they should be given finals.

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balance beam  
Years ago

Don't like it.

McDonald does NBL, WNBL, etc as you say. Benn and Nathan2 would have a game a week for the entire ABA season.

Filmer and Haines have done very few, Haines was OS with a FIBA tournament, I think you will find that they wouldn't have done enough games to qualify.

Like a player who played 38 mins a game for 20 games only to sit on the bench for majority of the finals when a NBL player or fringe NBL or WNBL player comes into the team. Limited games just enough to qualify. I'd be mightly annoyed if my effort to get the team into the finals went unrewarded when someone who may be better than me took my minutes.

besides as I say you have

filmer and haines you win, it is because your team played well or you coached well.
you lose it is the refs fault regardless of who is on the game.

those who focus so much on the umpiring before the game are already playing seven players in their own mind before they hit court.

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