Thanks for proving why referees are treated like a joke in SA.

you lot are embarassing.

what would really help is going to those ex-referees whom are actually ABL quality (unlike all bar one of the names in the OP) and finding out why they aren't refereeing.

Then fix it!

We don't need more rookies, we have too many of them! We need senior refs to come back.

Most senior referees leave ABA level due to lack of opportunities at the National level. Generally thats the nuts and bolts of it.

#566 Name one ref that quit for that reason? Opportunities in SA are much better then Victoria given the numbers.

I have no intention of throwing around names but how much new blood has SA had since the Weeks/Butler era? Not a lot in real terms. Because your a one team NBL/WNBL town the quota at the elite level isn't as high as other states. SA has 4 NBL refs and of those 1 is a Rookie with minimal games/exposure. A Comparison would be WA who also have 4 but all four have considerable experience. Houghton is their least experienced with 43 games at the start of 2011/2012. Victoria has 1 team and they have 6 NBL referees with Banik their least experienced with 5. (their next least is Reid with 47). NZ is a totally different beast with their local talent and their least experienced is Brown with 15.

One of SA's problems is because they don't have a panel 1 referee anymore a crew chief is flown in every game thus decreasing again the opportunity for games for SA based refs. Haines and Filmer do a small amount of travel but not a great deal. Therefore with 3 (4 including Durant) referees who are all relatively young in NBL terms the likelihood of new opportunities in SA with only the 36ers would appear greatly limited. So this also means that competition at the WNBL level for spots becomes intense and so on down the pole it goes.

It is a problem across every state, if people hit their ceiling quickly and there is not opportunity for advancement people get disillusioned very quickly. I guess a good example of this is several NBL cusp players who don't haven't gained contracts have recently moved over to AFL rather than go back to a lower league and work to gain a spot next season.

And yes anon it is a major problem in Vic (or has been historically) but it is a problem across Australia. An example is the NBL panel itself which has 33 referees on it and of those only 4 have done less than 15 games, 2 of those under 10. What does this say? That there hasn't been any real panel turn over for a long time anywhere in Australia which means there has been and is limited opportunity to get to the elite NBL level.

That's why a lot of referees at the next level down CABL, WABL, SBL etc don't hang around forever when they see no opportunity for advancement.

By no means is that a criticism it is just the structure in place and with the lack of funds and the vast expanse that the NBL's footprint covers, this then leads to logistical issues etc. QLD which has its own geographical issues with 3 teams probably has the best opportunities as currently excluding Butler they only have 6 NBL referees to service their teams.

I don't understand your point. A new referee has been added to the NBL panel this year. A new WNBL referee has been added to the WNBL panel this year.

The NBL will always try and send an interstate referee to Adelaide and always has. Using WA as an example as you have the NBL send referees there too. Even with 6 Vic Panel refs they still try and fly someone from interstate to mix up the combinations.

You're saying that referees at the top end quit because of lack of opportunities but we've seen 2 referees upgrade this season.

There are no referees just outside of NBL/WNBL whom have quit in the last 3-4 years due to lack of opportunity. Not one.

NBL/WNBL should be elite. It should be limited. There are 200+ ABL players for approximately 20 NBL/WNBL spots.

30-35 ABL referees and 6 NBL/WNBL referees. Seems ok to me.

If anything the 30+ ABL referees are too many. With 18 rounds and 20 referees maximum needed each week do we really need to use over 30 referees at ABL level? Do we have that many ABL standard referees in SA?

Are we giving referees too much too soon and therefore they have nothing to strive for?

How many young inexperienced referees are already doing ABL in SA? How many years experience do they need before they reach ABL level? A lot less then other states I'm sure.

Getting back to the point I made orginally lack of NBL/WNBL opportunities is not a reason why referees quit.

It does become a difficult situation when referees are at the level to be advanced to the wnbl/nbl panels, but there is not enough room. However this is only when referees are at that level, which quite honestly only a small few do get there. Some referees quit because they believe they are better than they are, and don't like being told that realistically they are not going to progress due to ability/age etc. Durant moved upto NBL and Devlin moved to WNBL, Troy moved to WNBL draft panel this year. The fact is with 6 available NBL/WNBL panel referees now, Troy who is on the draft panel will have to wait, probably for a number of years, and prove his worth at ABL level, until such time that there is a spot available, or out perform a current WNBL referee. Which makes take a number of years, depending on how the older referees go, and if they hang around. This is not a bad thing, as long as the referees whom are 'next in line' continually get better, and by the time that they are called up, they should be even more experienced. Troy has to wait, which means the referee after him will have to wait etc etc.

And I disagree with your point, it is a very real reason why referees quit. They decide to do something else because they cant see the starting line. You have 2 new referees on elite panel this season, great. How long did it take to get those 2 spots? How many games has Nathan done...1 (not his fault). Looking at the age of SA elite refs it will be years (probably 4+) before you get another. The comparison with WA was to show they have 4 NBL refs with a high number of games so the chances for any new blood there is very limited hence opportunities are limited. Hence people dont hang around.

Name one. Just one.

You can't because it's not true. Not one SA referee has quit because of limited NBL/WNBL opportunities.

What part of my original comment noted SA referees?

Most senior referees leave ABA level due to lack of opportunities at the National level. Generally thats the nuts and bolts of it.

So my apologies if i dont get into a pissing contest with you.

This whole thread is about the CABL.

The conversation has been about SA referees.

It's not a pissing contest I'm just asking you to back up your claims. Which you cannot because they simply aren't accurate.

Lack of NBL/WNBL opportunities are not a reason why our senior refs quit.

Ok, so why do they quit?

BSA, being made to ref too much, being treated with no respect, abuse from coaches and spectators, structure of the system, poor remuneration, lack of real feedback and education ....

Plus work commitments, family commitments, age, fitness, loss of interest.

Most referees I know whom have quit have done so because of the BSA/BA.

None because of lack of NBL/WNBL opportunities.

"Most referees I know whom have quit have done so because of the BSA/BA".

Is this the referees reasoning? Which goes back to the point, maybe they think they are better than they actually are? And deserve more?

"Most referees I know whom have quit have done so because of the BSA/BA".

Is this the referees reasoning? Which goes back to the point, maybe they think they are better than they actually are? And deserve more?


Hence they arent getting opportunities to advance so they quit and do something else

Buddy you just don't get it.

Clearly you've decided your right. I'm over trying to explain it to you. Keep believing that's the problem and never deal with the real issues.

Ouch names wow............quick start defending your position #732

Amy Rohlach was doing national league she hurt her back and gave up umpiring she also at the time got a lot of heat from Boti - don't think she gave up through lack of opportunities

Daniel Haebich was never good enough to do national league - besides I believe his work life took him away from umpiring

John Clover was doing National League, he gave up to concentrate on his law studies and his career in the police prosecution arena.

Totally agree with the above post. The current crop want it now if not yesterday regardless of their ability. And most dont deserve to get there. But regardless of whether they have the ability or not they still use lack of opportunity as the excuse.

Daniel Haebich was never good enough to do national league - besides I believe his work life took him away from umpiring

It doesnt matter if Daniel was never good enough, if he believed he was and didnt get an opportunity at the next level then thats the reason he left

SNES - that is without doubt THE best post I've ever read about refereeing on this site. I hope you have a position of authority in the area to help improve it's obvious deficiencies!

Well done.

"I think BSA should employ the NBL refs from Adelaide to do the training since they don't ref finals anyway coz of the rule introduced last year "

The rule has been in place since SA joined the ABA.

The rule was 50 games. Both were probably under that at the time. SEABL/BIG V have removed that rule this year so everyone is eligible. Doubt the elite NBL in Vic will compete