I totally agree with your opinion.

Kirk Penney is a good example, the guy gets numbers no matter who guards him. Find it hard to believe that he couldn't do that in the NBA

12 months ago would Lin have been on the NBL's radar for an import spot somewhere in Australia, not bloody likely!
But after he strings half a dozen good games in the NBA together, no way could an NBL team afford what he is worth now!
A players skill or potential to dominate cannot be measured by their ability to get NBA minutes. I'll say it clearly for the slow kids:

The NBA is a very well marketed basketball league where you get to see plenty of dunks and flashy scoring. It does not hold a candle in pure basketball standards to the top European leagues. Most players who dominate the european leagues could tear the NBA a new one if they could get on a team who could play them enough minutes to adjust to the "TV audience" style of play.

i think this is actually a popular opinion as it is completely obvious, i thought everyone has known this for a long time! especially with the lack of defence!, (just watch dereck fishers defence of lin when he played the lakers!) like someone said recently on this site the NBA is almost the WWF of basketball and this is more and more becoming my unpopular opinion!......until it hits playoffs anyway!

Lin's attitude changed when the Lockout was on and he went back to train and play in a mini tournament with the Chinese Ball club coached by Goorjian. Prior to this Lin was always scared to make a mistake and miss a shot, so much so that it was hindering his game when he did get court time in the NBA. When he arrived at the Chinese club he got friendly with one of their imports who challenged his way of thinking and thus reversed it.....now he isnt afraid to make a mistake and plays with confidence and when he got his second chance he took it head on.

Thats the difference, its not always about skill, talent....you have to hvae the right attitude as well!

Gaze could have had a very good career if he got the minutes Lin does.
Imagine him running off screens ala Korver!


So could have Heal, oh that's right he quit a guaranteed contract because he was "too good" to sit on a NBA bench hahahahaha.

Although I agree that there are plenty of players who would be capable of playing NBA starting minutes but arent given the opportunity for whatever reason, I think its horse shit when people say NBA is all about entertainment, flashy dunks and the celebrity.

Who would buy an NBA team with the intent of entertaining? No one, you buy an NBA team to win a championship. You pour money into buying players to win a championship. Yeah you get flashy dunks with alot of the marque players, but that is for their own ego, not the leagues. Its not like when a player signs a contract he agrees to 2 dunks a game, 1 tantrum a week and a rape case once in his career.

NBA has biggest market so it has the most money to buy the best players, and thats why its the best league in the world.

DB5 I hope you are joking.....

OKKA, I was about the heel.

If Legler and Kapono can play NBA for 5-6 years (and they cannot pass) Gaze definately could have carved out a decent NBA career as a shooter off the bench.

And for people saying that flashy does not get you an NBA gig, need I say Harold Miner?

Lets be serious. Yes you need a lucky break. But Korver's release it ten times quicker than Gaze. Gaze was a scorer that needed the ball. Check his Tigers highlights. Never was a run off double downs turn and shoot scorer. What Korver does it not easy, and only a few can do (RIP, Reggie, Ray). The Lin thing is very,very rare and doesn't happen with good reason. Plus Korver's defense is night and day better than Gaze (korver is a terrible nba defender)
I love Gaze but the old "he could have played in the nba given the chance" is played out.....

I don't need to check highlights, I remember watching him live.

As I said, if Kapono and Legler can carve out NBA careers, I am sure Gaze could.

We can agree to disagree, that is fine.

To add to this Lin supposedly has bulked up massively over the last 18 months and also his fitness/general conditioning is so much more than it was when he came into the league.
I think people do need a break (look at Bruce Bowen getting to San Antonio, Chauncey never got going until he went to Detroit) but I think it is a much smaller amount of people than what is getting bandied about on here

There are NBA quality players who arent playing in the NBA but there are only so many spots within the league....not all of them can get on a roster and it would be hard to argue why this player should be given a shot as opposed to one they already have on their roster. The only thing these types of players can do is take their opportunity when it arises, give it their all and dont die wondering.

Exactly DB5 I agree. BTW if you find a tape of Gazey coming off pin downs with a quick release send me the link would love to see them. TIm Legler compared to Kyle Korver? Gaze vs Legler you have a point. Korver none. In my opinion of course :)

Average OKKA - Andrew Gaze is one of the best movers without the ball I've ever seen. He scored the majority of his points from running off screens, backdoor plays etc.

I only compared him to Korver with this :

Imagine him running off screens ala Korver!

The DoctorL I totally agree with the back cuts and shuffle cuts which is what the Tigers obv have run for decades. He was phenomenal in that area. But starting under the basket, and sprinting off either side to curl for a jump shot with a lightning release, is something I rarely saw Gaze do.(dont think tigers ever ran anything but on balls and the shuffle when he was there anyway) The speed and work rate im talking about: Youtube Richard Hamilton when he was in Detroit. Korver does a similar thng. Thats my only point. I agree with all the other stuff.

DB5: highlight of his career no doubt! Always good to see someone 6'6' get up!

Your comparison with Patty Mills isn't the greatest analogy. I mean Patty wasn't exactly a no 1 pick.

Anon 350810 and DB5 (I think) - you do realise that Andrew Gaze did actually play in the NBA, got reasonable minutes (in his opinion) and won a championship (including making the court in the finals)?

I'm pretty sure Ben Pepper would agree with you, Linfan.

haha someone mentioned harold miner and being flashy, remember his college foul shot rountine - round the back, between the legs, hug the ball, then shoot it!! Gold!!

Back to the thread, due to the big money in the game the guys that get paid the most get the court time, cause they are the names that bring the fans in. Apparently Lin had been burning at training but didnt get a proper gig until they had injuries problems. The coach cant really bench his multi-million dollar players for a low-cost player as its a business. He has to persist with them even if they arent getting the job done. Lucky for Lin he got his chance.

I could be wrong but most superstars shoot the ball about 30 times a game. I reckon there is a tone of players out there, which given the opportunity and having the confidence, if they shot 30 times they'd put up the same numbers.

On another note with the mention of european players, i'd love to see a tournement where the NBA champs play the european champs. If the NBA looses they have to stop calling themselves the world champions.

yeah i remember watching a sports news show showing that laker/ barca game. lakers had their a-team as well from memory, i also seem to remember the team or someone on the team didnt take to losing so well lol. i was so happy to see barca win. well deserved.

The Lakers lost by 4 to Barcelona and Kobe Bryant was coming off off-season knee surgery and only played 24 minutes.

This was after playing only 2 minutes, his first appearance in the pre-season, a few days early in a game against the Minnesota Timberwolves, a game they lost to a team that would go on to register a 17-65 record that season.

So in short, let's not all shit ourselves.

They might have the skills but do they have the athleticism?

Look at the Aussies in the NBA. Patty Mills is in there because he's a skillful PG but also coz he's got speed. Same as Majok is nowhere near the most skillful big man in Australia but he has athleticism, which is probably one of the main reasons he was given a shot at the NBA.

If i wanted to watch good shooters and 'fundamental' basketball i'd watch European bball. However, I watch basketball to see a mix of great skills, awesome athleticism and great dunks and the only league in the world that provides that game in game out is the NBA.

I hate when people say "don't waste your time practicing dunks or your athleticism focus your time on your shooting". Obviously it's better to practice a lot at both but it's important to work on increasing your athleticism as well and even moreso if you don't happen to be blessed with height. Basketball is a game of physical characteristics as well as skill and I think sometimes people forget about that.

The NBA is said to be somewhere you 'can't hide'! Cause theres so many games & practises u get snuffed out quick if u not legit!

Boti has always explained this well.

Players who are willing to play 'the game' (e.g. Sean Marks) and are willing to sit on the bench for game after game in order to get their shot are the guys who will fill the 12-15 spots on NBA rosters.

Guys who are ambitious and want to play regularly but can't achieve that in the short-term (e.g. roll up and play extended minutes) can head to Europe play good team ball and still make very nice coin.

Lot of guys have gone down that path, the list would be endless but Jasikevicius and Anstey would be good examples I suppose?

Boti has always explained this well.

Players who are willing to play 'the game' (e.g. Sean Marks) and are willing to sit on the bench for game after game in order to get their shot are the guys who will fill the 12-15 spots on NBA rosters.

Guys who are ambitious and want to play regularly but can't achieve that in the short-term (e.g. roll up and play extended minutes) can head to Europe play good team ball and still make very nice coin.

Lot of guys have gone down that path, the list would be endless but Jasikevicius and Anstey would be good examples I suppose?

ESPN writer David Thorpe has talked lately about players and circumstance. Given the right environment and systems, players can explode or implode. Turk is a great example, as was Dana Barros, I think Lin will have it hard when Baron and Melo return. That said, his stardom and coach D 's system may help him maintain the aim.


Who are some other players who went from zero to hero or hero to zero?

Flip Murray.