Role player at NBL level and couldn't care less if he's re-signed or not. You would think he would attract some attention from the Melbourne teams being from Victoria.

after Abercrombie.

but is still a SF and is in the same league. You obviously didnt read TW's last line.

Tiger watcher, are the Melbourne teams offering him big minutes though?
He needs to play big minutes to reach his potential

Was Creek just compared to Maher and Mackinnon??

How quickly we forget.

Even at similar ages no comparison.

Think about what even a very young Sam Mackinnon did against some very good 36ers teams in a very strong NBL.

Compare those teams that Maher and Mackinnon played against compared to today's NBL.

Creek is massively overrated. Couldn't even produce in a wooden spoon team.

He has a looooooooooooong way to go, you cant compare him to Abercrombie, sam mack & maher? Abercrombie is a star that performs game in, game out in a playoff team. Mitch has got the potential to be a great player but I dont see it happening, he plays with no real heart and doesnt recognise the things he needs to do to help his side win....eg: 36ers pathetic season. If he starts being a good player and stops thinking he is then he will be ok. you can see it in his body language on court. but I guess it comes with age

It's just the usual suspects pumping him up. The guy is what 20 yo? He's not 14, FFS. Even putting him in the same sentence with Sammy Mac is insulting. MacKinnon was one of the top 10-15 players to ever play in the NBL, Creek is a scrub doing jack on the worst team in the league.

Hey Paul,

Junior WC stats?

How about NBL stats re Creek v Mackinnon's second NBL seasons?

Creek (2012)

5.4ppg, 3rpg and 1.2 apg. 44% from the floor, 55% from free throw line.

Team success: wooden spoon

Mackinnon (1995)

12.6ppg, 7rpg, 4.3apg, 2spg, 1.3bpg. 59% from the floor, 56% from free throw line.

Team success: Semi-finals

Also, it is important to note that Mackinnon's output in 1995 was more than double that in 1994 demonstrating great immediate improvement. From the age of 19 he was clearly a franchise type player and an Olympian in 1996.

Creek's output this season is worse than that of last year. He is a long, long way off from being a Boomer and as the post above, the NBL was far stronger in 1995 than it is in 2012.

Even if Creek were averaging 13ppg, 7rpg and 4apg now, I still wouldn't put such numbers in the same ball park as Mackinnon in 1995 because of the state of the league.

I'm not saying that Creek is a chump but comparing him to Sam Mackinnon is as close as Harold Miner to Michael Jordan.

The only argument that can be made in Creek's favour is that he did not receive the same opportunity in his second season than say Mackinnon did.

Having watched most of Adelaide's games I can't say that he deserved more opportunity. If you can't get minutes as a developing player in a wooden spoon team ahead of players such as Croswell, Weigh, Bartlett, Herbert, Ng etc it either says that Creek is no Mackinnon or Clarke has no idea what he is doing and can't develop a young player for crap.

I don't see how you can have it both ways (ie Creek = Mackinnon and Clarke is a good coach, in particular with respect to developing young players).

Paul, what assumptions are made that are incorrect?

You brought up junior WC stats to say they are similar and I brought up NBL stats to say they are not.

I have also qualified my argument by stating my opinion that the NBL was a higher quality league in the late 90s than now. That is not an assumption but an opinion.

A comparison of the 36ers' rosters in 1998 versus 2012 supports my opinion.

I don't see the significance of the junior WC stats in support of any argument that Creek and Mackinnon are on the same path.

What age groups were both players in when achieving those stats you refer to? Who were their team mates?

My understanding is that Mackinnon was a member of the Australian U23 team in 1997 (as a 20 year old). He had already won a NBL championship and was an Olympian by the time of the U23 gold medal.

Anstey, Dwight, Trahair, Drmic, Nielsen were all members of this team. If Mackinnon didn't put up 30 it was because the team was stacked. From memory, the team was so good that Saville didn't make it. Some 15 years later even Saville on his last legs is still a more valuable player than Creek.

I'm not 100 percent but aren't those stats you posted re Creek from his performance at the U19 world championship in 2011?

Paul, I am confused about your comment about Mackinnon making unbelievable improvement as they performed at a similar level in the respective World Championships. If we are talking about Mackinnon in 1997 and Creek in 2011 then the stats i referred to with respect to Mackinnon of 13ppg, 7rpg and 4apg were in 1995, two years prior to the 1997 junior world championships.

Tornado, I agree with your point that good players around you can help you. However, this doesn't change my opinion that it is a huge stretch to compare Creek to Mackinnon. Mackinnon put up good numbers wherever he played including internationally. He was never a member of a wooden spoon team and in my opinion that was because he was a gun who would never allow his team to come last.

I would love nothing more than to be proven wrong and for Creek to have a career as accomplished as Mackinnon. However, at this stage he is more Jason Williams than Mackinnon (ie athletic back up swingman without a consistent enough shot to become a reliable starter).

2002 represented pretty much Jason Williams second season with the 36ers where he was actually in the rotation (as opposed to development player/12th man). In that season he averaged 7ppg, 2rpg and 2apg on a championship winning team. Numbers similar to what Creek put up last season for the 36ers.

Thanks Paul, for clarifying re 1995 WC (Mackinnon) v. 2011 WC (Creek).

The 1998 36ers v 2012 36ers was more an example in support of my argument as to the talent level of the league. Not really on point but I'd say the 98 36ers would smash the 2012 Breakers and Wildcats as well. Similarly the 98 Magic, Tigers, Wildcats, etc, etc would do well against any of the 2012 teams. The point was merely that I believe there is no merit in any argument that Creek's numbers are comparable to Mackinnon because he is forced to play in a much higher standard league.

I thought I did address the similar junior WC stats arguments in detail. What were Michael Jordan's international stats versus that of Andrew Gaze? What does relying on such stats achieve in an argument of Gaze v. Jordan?

I did not watch either Mackinnon play in the 95 junior world champs or Creek in the 2011 junior world champs. I can only comment on what i have seen at NBL level. What I have seen indicates there is no comparison. If you are of the opinion that they are comparable then good luck to you. I have to confess that I consider my opinion conservative because I judge 36ers players through rose coloured glasses versus the hatred I had for players coached by Goorjian.

Isaac, Creek is a different player to Jason Williams. Williams was a back up PG in 2002. I was making the point that if Paul wants to bring up junior world champs stats in support of an argument that Creek is comparable to Mackinnon then I can bring up stats that show Creek is comparable to Jason Williams.

Comparing players from different eras is one of the joys of sport. This thread has got me reminiscing about how Trahair and Drmic were the "next" Andrew Gaze.

For what it is worth, I rated Cattalini in his prime over Mackinnon. Don't get me started re Mackinnon's Boomers stats versus Cattalini's Boomers stats.

Gee how I miss those days of the 98 36ers v. Magic and 99 36ers v. Titans.

Well done, anon.

Anyone comparing Creek to MacKinnon is either pushing an agenda or needs their head read.

The only comparison between them is they are/were both pro basketballers around the same height. Go and get Sammy Mac's stats from his 2nd NBL season (back when the league was stronger too) and knock yourself out. No one who's being serious would compare the two.

Stop being an idiot.

Creek is keen to stay and i think he will. He just needs more court time and the coach to let him play instinctively.

Thanks Isaac.

I am the original anon that was arguing with Paul.

Paul, a few questions for you?

1. Are you merely saying that both Mackinnon and Creek had similar stats in a U19 tournament or are you actually of the opinion after watching and scouting both Mackinnon and Creek that Creek is comparable?

2. Do you not agree that the NBL was stronger in 1996 than 2012?

3. How do you say that stats in an u19 tournament 16 years apart make two players "instantly comparable"? I thought my Michael Jordan v. Andrew Gase example of scoring in Olympic competition made my point clear.

4. If Creek is comparable to Mackinon why was he anchored to the bench of the worst 36ers team of all time?

To answer your questions, I have not based any argument that Mackinnon is far superior to Creek on an assumption the NBL was better in 1996 than 2012.

I stated that after watching Mackinnon on a huge number of occasions and Creek on a weekly basis (including at ABL level) the last two years they are as close as Daly is to Maher. Has nothing to do with stats or comparing eras.

My scouting report is that Mackinnon was stronger, quicker, more explosive, a better leader, smarter, better defender (both man to man and helping from weak side), better shooter, better offensive awareness, better ball handler (was one of Australia's few Point Forwards) and most importantly a much, much better passer than Creek. Mackinnon's ability to create and make the smart pass was his best attribute in my opinion. Could dominate a game like Darnell with 6 points for the game. My above opinion is not clouded by being a Mackinnon fan. The contrary. I just respected his game.

Lastly, you asked whether I was arguing that the level of basketball around the world has dropped since 1995? Not at all. Why would I need to do that in support of an argument that Creek is no Mackinnon. The challenge for Creek this off season is to get his jump shot to a point where comparisons with Warrick Giddey don't become the norm.

I hope Creek can become a good NBL player but I don't agree his ceiling is anywhere close to Mackinnon. That is not an insult. Mackinnon is one of the best Australian Small Forwards of all time.

Creek needs to go to the gong to replace soup

A year in that system would do him wonders

Anchored to the bench? I remember seeing him in the starting lineup on quite a few occasions this season...
I agree largely with the rest of your post, but that line wasn't necessary or even remotely accurate.
For his age, Creek is easily one of the most credentialed player in the league. Has plenty of deficiencies, but has shown enough to suggest he should develop into a very handy NBL player (if he stays here).

I hope its a real stud Aussie signing, none of the Tigers fit that description IMO.

Very keen to find out who it is, and if its as good a get as TW is saying then we all should have something to look forward to. And congrats to the coaches and management, but have to see who it is before we get too carried away.

Who are peoples guesses Nielsen, Wortho?

I dont think TW has let us down yet so heres hoping they are right again.