Isaac
Years ago

NBL player points values for 2012/13

THOMAS ABERCROMBIE 10
MYRON ALLEN 10
ADRIS DELEON 10
RONALD DORSEY 10
EDDIE GILL 10
JERAI GRANT 10
CEDRIC JACKSON 10
JULIAN KHAZZOUH 10
KEVIN LISCH 10
PATTY MILLS 10
SHAWN REDHAGE 10
DIAMON SIMPSON 10
CHRIS WARREN 10
ANDREW WARREN 10
ADAM GIBSON 10
AYINDE UBAKA 10
GARY WILKINSON 10
JAMAR WILSON 10
MARK WORTHINGTON 10
DAMIAN MARTIN 9
JOEVAN CATRON 9
PETER CRAWFORD 9
WILL HUDSON 9
MATTHEW KNIGHT 9
ELVIN MIMS 9
LUKE SCHENSCHER 9
CAMERON TRAGARDH 9
MIKA VUKONA 9
LARRY DAVIDSON 8
ADAM BALLINGER 8
CJ BRUTON 8
ALEX LOUGHTON 8
LUKE NEVILL 8
OSCAR FORMAN 8
DANIEL JOHNSON 8
ANTHONY PETRIE 8
GLEN SAVILLE 8
IAN CROSSWHITE 8
ALEX PLEDGER 8
JESSE WAGSTAFF 8
ANATOLY BOSE 7
AARON BRUCE 7
SHOWRON GLOVER 7
JAMES HARVEY 7
MATTHEW BURSTON 7
TIM COENRAAD 7
DARYL CORLETTO 7
CHRIS GOULDING 7
DAVID GRUBER 7
JACOB HOLMES 7
BEN MADGEN 7
KEVIN RATZSCH 7
DUSTY RYCHART 7
STEPHEN WEIGH 7
MICHAEL CEDAR 7
LIAM RUSH 7
CAMERON TOVEY 7
DILLON BOUCHER 6
RUSSELL HINDER 6
NATHAN CROSSWELL 6
DANIEL DILLON 6
MIKE ENGLISH 6
TOM GREER 6
RHYS MARTIN 6
BRAD HILL 6
BRAD ROBBINS 5
LUKE MARTIN 5
DARREN NG 5
BEN ALLEN 5
BENNY ANTHONY 5
LUKE COOPER 5
GRAEME DANN 5
LUCAS WALKER 5
CHRIS CEDAR 5
AARON GRABAU 5
JASON CADEE 5
MITCHELL CREEK 4
KERRY WILLIAMS 4
TODD BLANCHFIELD 4
DEAN BREBNER 4
LEON HENRY 4
WADE HELLIWELL 4
BENNY LEWIS 4
NATHAN HERBERT 4
JEFF DOWDELL 4
DREW WILLIAMSON 4
EVERARD BARTLETT 4
TYSON DEMOS 4
TOM GARLEPP 4
SHANE McDONALD 4
COREY WEBSTER 4
ALEX GYNES 4
GREG HIRE 4
GREG VANDERJAGT 4
MARTIN ITI 3
TIM LANG 3
JEREMIAH TRUEMAN 2
DANIEL JACKSON 2
MITCH NORTON 2
DEBA GEORGE 1

Development players
Development players who are signed to a full contract will be 1 point players unless they have attended a US college, or the AIS for more than one year.

ZAC CARTER 1
JAMES MITCHELL 1
KARL NILLSON 1
KEEGAN TUDEHOPE 1
MICHAEL VIGOR 1
ZAC DELANY 1
JAN WARBOUT 1
MITCH PHILP 1
OWEN ODIGIE 3
JOSHUA WILCHER 1
ROBERT CASSIR 1
TOM WRIGHT 3
ISAAC FOTU 1
MORGAN NATANAHIRA 1
TANNER KERRY 3
ALEX BEAGLEY 1
MATTHEW LYCETT 1
MATTHEW ADEKPONYA 1
JAMES COMINO 1
JARROD BALCOMBE 1
JARRAD WEEKS 1
MICHAEL DEMERTZE 1
LUKE JAMIESON 1
JOSH BLOXHAM 1
BRENDAN TEYS 1
TOM DALY 1
BEN PURSER 1
DION PREWSTER 3

Others
CLINT STEINDL 3
TRIAN ILIADIS 3
BEN LOUIS 3
KYLE ARMOUR 3
ALEX OPACIC 3


Not too many shockers as in the past. Thought these following ones were a bit off, but if it is indeed taking into account the last two seasons, some are probably influenced by that.

LARRY DAVIDSON 8 - a point too high?
ADAM BALLINGER 8 - hard to tell how much was injury I guess; I would've said a 7 based on what we saw but then last year's numbers probably warranted a 9
GLEN SAVILLE 8 - too high going into next year; influenced by last season?
ALEX PLEDGER 8 - tough on the Breakers, but he was efficient; still, last year taken into account and still an 8?
SHOWRON GLOVER 7 - see below, how are these two the same?
JACOB HOLMES 7 - see above; an 8 I think
RHYS MARTIN 6 - could be too low; starting PG and avg'd about 10 PPG
MITCHELL CREEK 4 - probably not miles off, but suits Adelaide to keep him down
EVERARD BARTLETT 4 - too low; played like a 6+, someone sign him
TYSON DEMOS 4 - a 5 maybe

Oh, they have Dorsey as a 10 when he could've been a 9 after that poor season.

Topic #28199 | Report this topic


hoopie  
Years ago

They're not aiming very high if they're giving so many players a 10 in this league.
How are they going to handle a really high-quality import? Give them a score of 11 or 12?

Reply #360403 | Report this post


skip  
Years ago

Pretty happy that DJ is still an 8, I would have thought he would be a 9+ for sure.

and does that mean we have him locked at 8 points for the next 3 years??

Reply #360405 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Weigh also was not unfairly high. A mediocre 36ers season certainly kept their points values down. Bartlett at four is a must-get for some team IMO.

From elsewhere:

Harvey and forward Tom Garlepp requested permission to test the market ahead of the free agency period, which starts next Tuesday.
The same article re-mentions Harvey's interest to play for the Kings.

Reply #360406 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I think so. That's a real bonus if he is. Could well be one of the best players in the league in three years if he discovers the other end of the floor.

Reply #360407 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

How is Adam Gibson a 10 but Damian Martin only a 9?

Reply #360413 | Report this post


The Brad  
Years ago

How do they work these points out? I know some things effect it like if they played for the Boomers etc or if they played in Europe but I personally think that puts playing for your country as a personal disadvantage. If basketball is your sole income and representing your country is going to increase your player rating which can then effect who signs you and how much they can offer you then why would you bother?
On that list I think the following players are rated to high...
THOMAS ABERCROMBIE 10
RONALD DORSEY 10
ADAM GIBSON 10
AYINDE UBAKA 10
MARK WORTHINGTON 10
PETER CRAWFORD 9
WILL HUDSON 9
MIKA VUKONA 9
LARRY DAVIDSON 8
ADAM BALLINGER 8
ANTHONY PETRIE 8
GLEN SAVILLE 8
ALEX PLEDGER 8
JESSE WAGSTAFF 8
AARON BRUCE 7
SHOWRON GLOVER 7
JAMES HARVEY 7
MATTHEW BURSTON 7
DAVID GRUBER 7
MICHAEL CEDAR 7
NATHAN CROSSWELL 6
TOM GREER 6
BEN ALLEN 5 (Should be -1!!!)

Reply #360416 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Initial Player Point Rankings were assigned to all players based on a combination of a statistical formula similar to the internationally renowned Tendex system and rankings from all nine NBL head coaches. All players were given until 20 April to appeal their rankings, with 14 successful appeals being heard by the Points Appeals Tribunal. Seven players were unsuccessful in having their rankings reduced on appeal.
Abercrombie and Crawford were both top ten scorers in the league (well, Crawford 11th, but I'm ignoring Mills).

Reply #360417 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

lots of these rankings are good from my Townsville point of view

Import PG Gill/Other 10
Import 10
Crawford 9 (under valued)
Schenscher 9
Holmes 7 (under valued)
Hinder 6
C Cedar 5
Blanchfield 4 (under valued)
Norton 2
62 total

1 player to go up to 8 points

Reply #360422 | Report this post


Aussiebballer  
Years ago

Good for the 36'ers that Johnson is rated 8.
Would have thought 9, but I guess they are taking his defence into account!!! :)

They need to get Creek and Barlett signed up as 4s, very good pricce for players with there potential for improvement next season.

Reply #360426 | Report this post


skip  
Years ago

So the Sixers basically have 29 points up their sleeves for 5 Aussie players. (Unless they go for a lower ranked import)

SIGNED
Johnson - 8
Weigh - 7
Crosswell - 6
Import - 10
Import - 10


UNSIGNED
Balinger - 8
Ng - 5
Creek - 4
Bartlett - 4
Daly - 1

Reply #360427 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The Brad said I know some things effect it like if they played for the Boomers. being a boomer has nothing to do with how a players points are calculated. There are clauses for NBA time, returning college players, AIS and and europe time. Boomer time has never been a factor.

Reply #360433 | Report this post


pwned  
Years ago

Dave Gruber a 7?

Reply #360458 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

Abercrombie still counts as a 1 as he is still on the last year of his contract I think and Pledger may be the same.

Reply #360460 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

As a breakers fan i am loving this, check it out http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/basketball/6830645/Tom-Abercrombie-rises-in-ANBL-points-rankings/ breakers come in with 59 points including two 10 point import spots predicted for 12/13 season,

Reply #360466 | Report this post


skip  
Years ago

That is scary for everyone but NZ for this season.

They have the room to say add say Khazzouh to their existing line up and still have a point up their sleeve!

Reply #360472 | Report this post


skip  
Years ago

Anyone know if existing internal player points still remain the same if their ratings have dropped from the previous season?

If not, can a club/player mutually break the contract and re-sign them under the lower points?

Reply #360473 | Report this post


hoopie  
Years ago

So if we take the team totals and then match them against the final ladder positions, is this a good way to see which coaches aren't any good?

Reply #360495 | Report this post


The Journo  
Years ago

Johnson (8) / Vanderjagt (4)
IMPORT(10) / Ballinger (8)
Weigh (7) / Creek (4)
IMPORT (10) / Ng (5)
Bruce (7) / Crosswell (6)

69 points and a team that will go 10 deep!

Reply #360504 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

skip, not sure if that loophole still exists as it has in the past. If the contract stays, they may be rated higher internally than externally.

Not sure how you could prevent clubs breaking contracts in those circumstances - maybe have a lodging fee that is withheld if the contract is broken, or prevent a team from signing a player in the same period they cut them, etc.

Reply #360505 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

gruber should be a 5


Reply #360509 | Report this post


Wookiee  
Years ago

skip/isaac - we saw last season that Drew "The Sniper" Williamson dropped his points value and got re-rated to that, even though he was mid-contract, but I don't know if the Wildcats had to appeal this or whether it's an automatic thing...

Wildcat fans were obviously very pleased as they managed to keep a stacked roster, under the guise of "why keep players at a higher value if it's going to stop them getting employment anywhere?"

Reply #360511 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Can someone explain what the point in this stupid system is when a salary cap is already in effect?

More red tape...

Reply #360518 | Report this post


XY  
Years ago

The points system needs to be tweaked to deal with that 'Abercrombie' loophole, just as it once was for the 'Maher' loyalty loophole.

I suggest providing a maximum points bonus for a multi-year signing of 3 points off that players rating for that year. Then rather than Abercrombie being a 1 he would be a 7.

It is insanely unfair that one of the best players in the league still qualifies for a rookie rating, years after he became a proven star in this league.

I don't blame NZ for signing Abercrombie to the maximum deal - anyone would have once it worked out how good he was going to be. But it totally wrecks the concept of having parity in the league, which was the whole reason for the points rating in the first place. NZ can sign a Damien Martin, Luke Schenscher, Peter Crawford or Cam Tragardh quality player as a bonus player using Abercrombie's points reduction, where no other team can.

Reply #360531 | Report this post


FM  
Years ago

The loophole should stay. We need an NBL where a player grows with the team and becomes the team. Like we had with Maher and the Gong had with Soup.

Reply #360545 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

That loophole is gone but the Breakers were smart enough to sign Abercrombie long term before it was closed. The rule now is a player keeps the rating he signed at for the length of his contract but automatically goes to his external rating at the end of the contract, so if a club can find a good young talent, sign him long term and develop him they benefit from that. That's the way it should be.

Reply #360553 | Report this post


XY  
Years ago

Disagree. If the Breakers still got my suggested three point bonus, they still would get an advantage for uncovering a young talent. But not an unfair advantage that lasts three years.

Reply #360565 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

why should they develop players for other teams?
most of their squad have been local development players at some point and Abercrombie, Webster, Fotu all went to school a few km's from the Breakers headquarters on the North Shore.
If teams want to buy in talent because they can't develop it or retain it, then they have to deal with the players they are buying points rating. If a team want to build a future squad and take a gamble on unproven young locals then they should have some reward for their risk.
We should make Creek a 10 now cos he's got potential and Bartlett can heat up and will get better so he should be a 9 lol

Reply #360571 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

Breakers also cut NZ International Phil Jones to make way for a development player in Abercrombie. Jones would easily rank right up there with the likes of Kirk Penney and Pero Cameron as one of our best players ever. So they took a big gamble, at that stage Abercrombie was a kid that could jump high and dribble a bit.

Reply #360572 | Report this post


XY  
Years ago

I know that you are a Breakers fan, but surely you have to be joking to think that it is fair that Abercrombie is STILL a 1. Next year will be his fifth year in the NBL. He is no longer a rookie. He is nothing like a rookie. He should not attract the points value of a rookie.

The Breakers used a loophole to sign Abercrombie in season to the maximum three year contract when they found out, in his second year of competition, that he was a young star in the making. As Paul said, that loophole has at least now been closed.

What you are suggesting is that other clubs ought not be able to compete on a level playing field for Abercrombie's services, because NZ developed Abercrombie from the grass roots. I don't disagree with you. But what you are talking about is some form of 'loyalty' bonus, which was removed because the Maher's and Saville's were giving their clubs an unfair advantage. And that was a maximum 5 point advantage. The Breakers are this year going to have a 9 point windfall, which will allow them to sign another star in the league, a probably win another championship as a result. This clearly defeats the purpose of the points system, which is to promote parity.

If you wish to reward teams for unearthing talent, or for loyalty to their club (not that the Breakers need much assistance in that regard), then make the benefit MUCH smaller - say a 1 to 3 points reduction.

Reply #360588 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I dont think anyone is saying it's 'fair' Abercrombie is still a 1, the Breakers got that rating by signing him before new rules came in because the old ones werent fair.

However, as a new example, if a team signs Owen Odigie this year for three years as a 3-point player, and by year three he is one of the better players in the league, the club should reap the benefits of investing in a young player and developing his game.

There is risk involved, they could sign him for three years and he doesnt live up to his potential. Conversely, he could head to college and be lost to the game in Australia.

Reply #360598 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

XY, yes next year will be his 5th year in the league. At least one of those years was spent sitting at the end of the Breakers bench as a development player.
3 years as a paid professional with 2 titles.
I do think 3points is a fair reduction in the interest of parity across the league since some teams have no interest or idea about development (Hawks have midgets from what I have seen lol)

Reply #360614 | Report this post




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