David
Years ago

NBA Big Man where are they?

What happened to the NBA center? I remember the good old days in the nineties where there was Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing and Shaquile Oneal.

Now they seem like a distant memory. I only think Yao Ming comes close to the dominance of those centers I mentioned. Dwight Howard reminds me more of a Dikembe Mutombo except he can score better.

Roy Hibbert, Andrew Bogut, Andrew Brynum, Tyson Chandler and Spencer Hawes don't come close in dominance to the centers I mentioned in the nineties. However on the bright side their seems to be more of them that are coming along now then in the early to mid 2000's where there was a big drought of centers and PF's were regularly playing center ala (Ben Wallace, Antonio Davis, Dale Davis, Theo Ratliff)

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Anonymous  
Years ago

We would have had Yao and Oden if they were not injury prone. Bogut also otfen injured.

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Big Marty  
Years ago

Blame the Injury prone centers on the pathetic medical staff that most teams have.

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phil  
Years ago

it does seem the pf as a centre has been very popular for awhile now.

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MACDUB  
Years ago

I think that the offensive focus has shifted to the PG's (and probably forwards)

Look at PG's back in the 90s..they were scoring well.

But not like we are seeing in this era:

Westbrook (24ppg)
Rose (25 ppg)
Paul (20 ppg)
Parker (20 ppg)

Centers these days are primarily required to block/challenge shots and rebound.

The game has changed as such.
But I would put it down this..Perhaps PG's and secondary ball-handlers are more reluctant these days to pass the ball down low.

NBA has become a fast paced game where transition baskets are common.
Slower centers may struggle to keep up, whereas PGs and Forwards flourish because they can get up and down the court quick.

Mobile PF's are more of an offensive focus today.

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Tassieballer  
Years ago

The center position is not just made up by the player. Most centers score from the post. To get the ball here they need a good pass from a PG. A past first point guard is hard to come across these days. I can only think of three: Rondo, Paul and Nash and possibly Parker. From these 4 guards 3 of them have been around the league for a while. So many point guards are manly scores these days and arnt giving the others a chance to score. Eg inbound the ball to PG, PG dribbles up, PG creates to score for himself.

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birdman  
Years ago

Bynum, duncan, howard, ? pretty good big men if you ask me!

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The_Champ33  
Years ago

Birdman

The 3 you mentioned above is good in the current era. However a prime Hakeem would dominate all of them. Ewing would jump shoot all over them.
Robinson would have his days.

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orbit  
Years ago

Gasol & Bogut also good, just not freaks!

Shaq & Ming were dominant cause they are huger than the average massive centre.

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sitiveni  
Years ago

Hakeem my favourite player. got the 94/95 nba finals on tape. i think it was Houston v Knicks, i think i got tapes of orlando being in the finals around then too.

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AD  
Years ago

Not sure if Hakeem would "dominate" those 3. Duncan is arguably the greatest PF of all time.

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Cell  
Years ago

Some good Big men coming through in the next few years : Noel, Austin, Adams, Tarczewski, Ridlely, Coleman are all top 15 prospects in this years HS class (surely 1 or 2 of them will pan out). Also the number of PFs in this years draft is really high.

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hoopie  
Years ago

Kareem still leads all scorers but, yeah, I've got a soft spot for Hakeem too.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_all_time_leaders/AllTimeLeadersPTSQuery.html?topic=4&stat=1

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celtic green  
Years ago

There was a great article just in the last week (can't remember which site though sorry) talking about this. The guy runs through the rule changes that basically explains why you won't get dominant centres anymore. It really comes down to what the defence is allowed to do. Back in the 90's and before they could not run zones and they could not collapse on the centres as soon as he got the ball. With the rule changes they can these days, and with the no hand check rule it quickened the demise of the dominant big man while also speeding up the ascent of the scoring PG.

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The_Champ33  
Years ago

Hakeem was a freak mate. He was doing things a man of his height shouldn't do. Things a small forward would normally do.

If Hakeem, Ewing and Robinson were in the current era with all the latest in sports management, injuries, technology etc, I think they'd be even better now than when they did play.

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paul  
Years ago

All around the world the game has got quicker with more mobile frontcourt players and that has made it harder for the traditional big.

It's also a classic example of comparing the greatest from an overall era of the past with the best of the current year to year.

In 10 years time people will prob be mentioning Duncan, Howard, Gasol and Yao and asking why the big men arent as good anymore!

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AJB  
Years ago

The game has been hijacked by garden gnomes. Starting right down at grass roots level, you don't often find big coaches coaching kids how to play big, and feeding the post is almost a lost art. Kids are rewarded way too much for hacking up low percentage three point attempts (in my opinion 3's should be taken out of the game till U16}. Big kids are told to post up only to watch the ball constantly fly over their heads, and posting up means that you have effectively boxed yourself out for the rebound. Either that or screen at the elbow to let the PG have a free path to the basket and take yourself out of rebound position again.

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Big Marty  
Years ago

AD, I would say it would depend on the era. Despite the Athleticism of the modern day forward/center in Bynum/Howard, if you put any of them in that 80's/90's playstyle; most of them would cry because it's too physical.

I'm fairly sure Howard and Bynum would get torn to shreds if they went up against the 91/92 Knicks Front Court. McDaniels, Ewing and Oakley would beat the crap out of him.

If you went the other way and put the likes of Robinson, Ewing, Olajuwan etc. in the modern game; they would still win out because Centers used to be more rounded. Nowadays they are just roleplayers.

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Matt Ryan  
Years ago

This may be of help as we hear great NBA players discuss this topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28dyxS6y7i0

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David  
Years ago

Some really great points made on this board. I would say that the versatility has also changed the traditional big man play over the years especially players from Europe. 7 footers like Nowitzki, Gasol, Bargnani,and Okur have made a the traditional back to basket center seem as a thing of the past.

Also If you watch the NBA playoffs game 5 Phoenix Suns vs LA Clippers 2006 series on you tube the Suns don't have a traditional center. Amare Stoudamire was injured and Clippers centre Chris Kamen is forced to guard Shaun Marion on the wing. I think these "small ball" line ups have taken away some of the relevance of having a big man playing in the Centre.

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Bear  
Years ago

Rule changes may be part of it, then there is the injuries and of course I agree that the role of the centre is not what it used to be either.

But what is the definition of the centre these days?

Back to the basket - strong - presence - dominate - be a target - set screens

Big men are developing more versatility I believe, not to be seen as only capable of playing the one position, so maybe there is no real issue here, maybe it is just a subtle evolution we are seeing...!

I'd bet that the next big guy who comes along and starts dominating the paint will suddenly have people talking about how the centre has returned to the NBA and once again we will circle our wagons...

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No Deal!!  
Years ago

Lets not overlook that there are some good young centres who are progressing nicely. Monroe, Hibbert, McGee & Cousins will all push Bynum as the 2nd best centre behind Howard in the coming years. None of these guys are the next Olajuwon/Ewing/Robinson, but there is some depth of higher end talent at the position.

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KingJames  
Years ago

I look at it from a different point of view.

Olajuwon/Ewing/Robinson all played against inferior opponents. Anyone that was 7 foot that could catch a basketball would be put into the NBA. These days it is totally different with all centers being quality basketballers. So those big 3 names stood out so much purely because of the talent they were playing against. In fact you could make a case that these 3 players weren't as good as past centers such as Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell because these guys averaged over 20 rebounds per game. The point is the game continues to change.

I think McDaniels and Oakley wouldn't even make the NBA these days. Also I think Ewing would struggle in the NBA if he was playing now. Robinson and Olajuwon would be alright but would not stand out.

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hoopie  
Years ago

Bear, what about being a good passer?

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Bear  
Years ago

Yeah, for sure, something I see so much at all junior levels is the value of being tall enough to see the pass and not get blocked passing to a team mate...

Big guys often make some of the best passers going around!

Blocking shots is also a no brainer I guess!

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David  
Years ago

Big James I don't agree with your statement. There were plenty of good to decent centers who played in the Olajuwon/Ewing/Robinson/Shaq era. Vlade Divac, Rik Smits, Brad Daughtey, Rony Seikaly, Mark Eaton, Alonoz Mourning.

I agree with your point about Chamberlain and Russel but to suggest that Olajuwon/Robinson/Ewing only dominated because of the era they played in is wrong. They would dominate in the current NBA and remember Smits and Divac made the All-star games at the end of there careers when Olajuwon/Robinson/Ewing retired or were at the twilight of their careers. Smits and Divac were better earlier in their careers and only made the All-star game at the end because of the lack of depth at the Centre positions.

Golden era for Centres was in the nineties period.

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Big Ads  
Years ago

Interesting point made about injuries. Maybe there is a correlation between the increasing pace of the game placing more stress on the big bodies and subsequently causing more severe injuries.

How often do we see those big, athletic types going down with knee injuries moreso now than in the past.

Just a hypothetical.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Better centres during the 90s.

You haven't got any big guys nearly as dominant as Shaq/Robinson/Olajuwon and Ewing playing now. Those other second string centres were all great as well.

Howard is the best of a decent bunch at the moment. And he's OK. Not "great". He's probably about David Robinson level - there's a Bill Simmons article on Grantland from this year that explains it.

Duncan is in a class all by himself when compared to Bynum and Howard.

Duncan's legacy puts him up there with Olajuwon as a player. He's surpassed Ewing and Robinson easily. Shaq probably gets him because of his physical dominance.

The loss of Oden and Yao Ming to injury certainly hurts the current generation of big guys, but the long European 4 has changed the positional definitions.

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Bear  
Years ago

Evolution guys, evolution!

Faster pace, more athleticism, better skill sets, stronger bodies, advanced training methods, defensively teams can choke the key and take away space, blocking and hand checking seems to be okay these days, increasing emphasis on outside and mid range shooting, guards inability to dish the ball (rather taking it to the rack on most occasions)...

No wonder the big man finds it tough, so are they actually better these days, to be able to cope with the changes evolving in the game?

Duncan is a legend (one of the best ever)...

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David  
Years ago

Yao Ming injuries are likely more to the fact how excessively tall he was which was a constant problem with players like Ralph Sampson who never truly achieved his greatness because of injuries. Zyrunus Illgaukas, George Mursuean and Rik Smits also battled terrible injuries and were very tall. Although Smits case was probably a little different due to the fact he consistently played throughout his career despite his injuries.

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