Mick
Years ago

Shane Heal: Ben Allen will have a really good year

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2012/09/05/358051_sport.html

Shane Heal talks about coaching young Crocs centre Ben Allen for the Ipswich Force during this past QBL season.

Allen has struggled to adapt to the professional game in his two year stint with the Crocodiles, averaging an anaemic 3 points and 1.3 rebounds per game, but has had a more-or-less breakout season playing for Ipswich in the QBL. Allen averaged 18 and 13 for the QBL season, while shooting the ball at a great clip from three-point range and the field, including averages of 25 and 18 over the last five games of the year.

Is it Big Ben's time to quiet the doubters in 2012/13?



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natwhereyouat  
Years ago

He was almost out this year.. Got thrown a life line at the last minute. Apparently Pat Reidy has been working with him and he's improved.. But his main issue has been confidence. So jury is still out i say.

I hope he does have a break out year, otherwise this will be his last.

Reply #378384 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Pat hasn't worked with him for 4 months!

Reply #378387 | Report this post


igotmadskills  
Years ago

would rater see him not shoot 3's and improve inside game where he should be.

Reply #378391 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Pat Reidy has been working with him since before the start of last NBL season, so it's been going on for a while now.

From the accounts I've heard, Pat and the Crocs veterans reckon they had never seen a lazier, more unprofessional kid than when he first came into the league. Arrogant as hell, and thought he was going to come in and dominate the league straight out of St Mary's. That anecdote is followed up by Pat saying he has done a complete 180 to the point where he is now one of the most professional guys on the team, and one of the hardest workers in the league.

At times you get the feeling that he is one breakout game away from being a legitimate pro player, and it's all just a confidence issue. At other times you find yourself asking if he has learnt a thing in his two pro seasons. The kid hasn't dunked the ball once in an NBL game yet. Isn't that kind of weird for a guy a hair under seven foot who has seen plenty of court time through 61 NBL games?

One problem with Ben is that he is reeeeeally slow. Defenders can pick what he is about to do three seconds before he does it. He is a lot slower than people think he is from afar. He gets his fadeaways blocked routinely because guys just read it and react because they have plenty of time for him to turn over his left shoulder. Slow footspeed and bad footwork are a bad combination for big body. That's where Pat comes in.

Secondly - he has seemingly bad core strength which combined with the bad footwork = bad balance (and bad positioning in the post). You will often see him pushed out of position on the low block by smaller, skinnier defenders because they have better body control, footwork, and core strength. Again, Reidy can show him how to keep his center of gravity low in the post and where to put his feet, but the strength and conditioning staff have a role to play here too.

The other problem I see with Ben is he seems at times a little confused in that he was a stretch big and now he's being told to be a banger. Would he have been better off to just be left as a soft, cocky shooter who could stretch the floor and provide a little offense off the bench? He wouldn't be a franchise center or even a starter, but at least he would be a contributer. Right now he is giving nothing to the team.

I hope that what has happened here is that Pat Reidy has broken him down before he can build him back up again, erasing all the bad habits taught to him at St Mary's and over his junior career to the point where he is no longer a stretch four, or a banging center -- but a blank slate. The old "one step back, two steps forward under the tutelage of an NBL legend" trick...

Here's hoping.

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Naph  
Years ago

I am somewhat bemused by the "bad habits taught to him at St Mary's" comment.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/27054/ben-allen

He received few minutes at Indiana (his first stop in college). I can't claim to have followed him closely during this part of his career but I get the general impression that his time in Indiana was limited because they didn't want him to be a stretch forward/big and were trying to remodel him into an inside player. I get the impression he wasn't too interested.

After transferring, sitting out his redshirt season he got few minutes his first season at St Mary's precisely because of all the things that people have been talking about his first two seasons in the NBL. His senior season he had a very defined role and was able to essentially play as a stretch 4 with Omar Samhan doing all the dirty work on the inside at the 5. He had a decent pick and pop, passed quite well out of the high post and finished okay on the inside when McConnell or Delly found him for open looks. He also seemed to gain a lot of confidence becase he got to do the thing he's quite good at and seemingly likes doing. ie shooting threes. (46 of 117 in 34 games)

I guess my general point is that the bad habits existed long before he got to Saint Mary's and if you'd watched the progression between his junior and senior seasons you'd realise how many good things he learnt during his time there.

Disclaimer: Yes, I am a Gaels fan.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Love the "he should get inside where he belongs" comment. Straight from the 1980s!

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MACDUB  
Years ago

Corey Webster will have a big year. Mark my words.

Reply #378406 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If Shane Heal thought ben will have a good 2012/2013 NBL season.. Then why in the Hell didnt he sign him to the Kings???

Ben Allen mentally isn't up to it as a professional player!!

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Isaac  
Years ago

Kiss of death? Remember Heal talking up Daniel Joyce?

Nothing wrong with a big prone to jacking threes (stop laughing, all of you!), if they make them. Allen was 2/13 3P last season.

We've seen a few mostly unheralded bigs drop away from the league, like Behrendorff and Vanderjagt. Pledger's been one of the few, not-so-dynamic but gradual improvers.

Reply #378411 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Heal's been playing SoJ in Kings pre-season games (although supposedly unlikely to make the team) who has been struggling in SEABL for a few years now unable to land another NBL gig since Daddy & Heal were at the Blaze so Heal's not exactly the best judge of talent around.

Reply #378416 | Report this post


El Diablo  
Years ago

Remember Allen did his best stretch 4 work, while Omar was inside dominating (scoring and rebounding)

The NBL generally kills big guys, as it is a small man's league (see Worthington as a dominant physical presence!).

I have watched Allen and he has nothing in the NBL, not a consistent enough shooter to make up for all his other weaknesses (too slow, cant/wont defend, wont rebound etc etc).

I don't have a problem with the guy, but sometimes it just doesn't work out (see Axel Dench). Its kinda funny and sad that he would have to work his ass off just to be a poor man's Andrew Goodwin

Reply #378424 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I love how people write of Dan and u have no idea about him or the situation he was in at ballarat! His miners team had plenty of nbl quality players coenraad, Shaun Bruce and Kevin white. So he wasn't exactly the first option but he still put up relatively good numbers and guy Molloy likes him and rates him as a player and he is an nbl level coach! He is a great guy and works extremely hard and cops way to much heat because he was a young kid playing under his dad. Give it a rest. I have seen Joyce guard ur new import to be CJ and do a tremendous job on him aswell as score on him when like I said he wasn't the first option.

Massingale is a seabl quality import and will get shown up in nbl by better guards and imports around the league. Waste of ten points for 36ers

Reply #378431 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

First it was Dan Dillon's mum posting on here.. now Dan J0yce's!!

Reply #378435 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Another problem with Allen (and to a lesser extent other underperforming Crocs youngsters Blanchfield and Mick Cedar), is that since John Rillie left the club, there hasn't been a senior voice of reason on the playing roster. Allen hasn't really had a benevolent teacher on the team, since Rillie left before he came.

Russell Hinder is a fine "hype" guy, but he is not a level-headed rock on the court. He doesn't really hold guys accountable, and he doesn't have many skills to teach. He is more of a "G-up" guy, and sometimes he pumps himself up too much to the point where he isn't focused and usually turns in poor performances in do-or-die games.

Peter Crawford and Luke Schenscher are/were great players for the club, but were not leaders in any sense of the word. Holmes, again, is not really a leader. Those guys are more of the "i will carry my weight and do my job on my own, so you should too" style of veteran.

Watching John Rillie guide Brad Newley from a raw talent into a well-rounded professional player and NBA draft pick was one of the greatest things I've seen in the history of the club. With all the young guys on the roster (Cedar, Cedar, Norton, Allen, Blanchfield), they really need a veteran presence to step up and shephard the flock on the court.



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Anonymous  
Years ago

Gill was that last year. Be interesting to see if Holmes step up, he is leadership material.

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Mick  
Years ago

Would great to see Holmes step up and be that guy.

He's on a two year contract, so he'll be here for a while at least - might even play out his career in Townsville. In his prime right now at 28.

Reply #378462 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

So he wasn't exactly the first option
He's played multiple NBL seasons for multiple teams and ends up playing down the ranks behind an NBL benchie and two guys that are development players or looking for a job? By all means, offer your defence of him, but that's not a particularly convincing argument IMO.

The 36ers had loads of points to spare and multiple import spots. They spent most of their money on Australian talent such as picking up Gibson and Petrie late in the game. That's meant that the import spot and the points used are hardly critical. Might as well use it if it's there.

Which game was Daniel guarding Massingale? The one where Massingale had 24 points at 50%, or the one where he had 25 points at 50%?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Holmes isn's a leader???

Rusty doesn't hold guys accountable???

Reply #378480 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

so guys on development spots aren't nbl players issac? kevin white, scoines, coenraad, bruce and even ryan barnes on the miners team are all better players than perhaps dan. They (ballarat) run the shuffle offence which isnt exactly an offence were u can just do "your own thing" and go one on one. what im trying to say that dan did a great job playing this season and will get better and better (as his done every seabl year). If he decides to come back to ballarat next year which i hear is 50/50 i expect more of a role and higher output.

It doesnt matter if he has played 10 years in the nbl and started everyone of them he can only do what the coachs instructs him to do, which he does very well.

And i was talking about the game at ballarat were his team won and he made cruical stops on CJ down the stretch which helped lead his team to the win. Which i was thinking at the end of the game i thought dans 15 points was more important than CJ's 25. Lester fouled out of that game which hurt Knox's chances to win which led to relying on CJ and Daniel guarded him very well (for a guy who people bag for no defence). Dans play during July and August when the miners went on a huge winning streak to try get into the playoffs was crucial and if u check his stats they show. Also Guy molloy gave him the coachs award for his season so coming from a coach that every NBL team would consider for a job is pretty good honor to have.

Ill stick by my statement that i think Cj will the wrong pick up for the 36ers. I think he will be to slow and old for the NBL. Its a completely another speed and will get showed up by the quicker american and australian guards that arent running around in SEABL. Its my opinion and ill be glad to be wrong because i support adelaide and hope he is a success.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

No, development players are not NBL players. So Joyce was a solid role player on a SEABL team? That's a long way from being an NBL player.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

So development players can get on in NBL games yet aren't considered NBL players!? Your a moron ^^

Reply #378548 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Dan has proved time and time again he is unable to play defense. He has poor core body strength, is unable to slide his feet and refuses to take contact through his chest. Get's blown by time and time again at SEABL level.

Thankfully Ballarat run the shuffle, Dan can be hidden in the offense at the 2 spot.

So he had one good defensive game against CJ. Too be honest CJ put up so many poor contested shots in that game from watching the video anyone carrying a hand to those shots could of been considered to have played good D.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Theyre NBL development players.

Reply #378560 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I wouldn't really consider development players "NBL players" when you're talking up a calibre of player though. Coenraad is one thing, but surely Joyce should be ahead of others though having had a good amount of actual game experience.

Reply #378564 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

This time last year Shane said his businesses would have a really good year. And time told that tale.

Reply #378927 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If you play an NBL game you're an NBL player.

Reply #378929 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Missing the point.

Reply #378936 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Yep, trying to be pedantic. So anyone playing with Jerome Beasley, Todd Fuller, Awvee Story and Orien Green is playing behind a lot of NBA players.

Reply #378938 | Report this post




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