An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 3:43 pm, Mon 28 Jul 2014 | Posts: 505,424 | Last 7 days: 1,211

Dunk Basketball Uniforms  

Advertising spot currently available.
Minimum three month period (1.5+ million page views, 92% Australian).
Email isaac@triplezero.com.au for rates and options.

Hexiled - a game for iPhone and iPad. A free and addictive word game for iPhone and iPad with three modes Download on the App Store.

Chuck Norris
Two years ago

#29943

David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

The league needs to concider ditching the points system. We are pushing awesome Australian talent away by the points system. Now I understand why we do have a points system but honestly it's crap, lets just have a salary cap. How bout the NBL take a leaf out of the A-League were the have 1 marque player, lets not push awesome talent away whether its Australian or any overseas player. I say 1 marque player per team


BARLOW'S NBL RETURN BLOCKED BY PPC
Barlow's NBL return blocked by

The National Basketball League Players Association has an ally in its push to rid the Player Points Cap out of the NBL, with Australian Boomers forward David Barlow saying he would come back to the NBL if the PPC was abolished.

In a BackPageLead exclusive, Barlow indicated "job security" is the biggest factor in his decision to remain overseas, because, "the points system takes the security away."

Barlow left the NBL following the 2008/09 campaign after playing six seasons with the Sydney Kings and Melbourne Tigers. Since departing Australia, Barlow has played in Spain (ACB) with CAI Zaragoza and UCAM Murcia.

Playing as an import in the ACB, regarded as the best league outside the NBA, Barlow would be rated a '10' if he returned to the NBL.

The other Australians to be on the top shelf, Mark Worthington, Julian Khazzouh and Adam Gibson were all ranked '10' before the 2012/13 NBL commenced.

Only Gibson is playing in the NBL currently.

The NBL's Player Points System is a cap of 70 points, where teams must fill out their roster of 10 players; each player ranked between 1-10 points based on perceived talent.

"I'm over here as an import in an environment where my job is always on the line," said Barlow, "One of the main reasons I would want to come back to Australia is for job security, but the points system takes that security away, makes players with higher ratings at risk of losing their job. Why would I want to come home to that?"

Last month when I spoke to Tigers head coach Chris Anstey about Khazzouh's availability, after he was released by Asseco Prokom (Poland), Anstey spoke out against the Player Points System, saying, "I've never liked the Player Points System, it puts a restraint on the players' trade."

Speaking to Perth's The Sunday Times on the PPC, NBLPA President Jacob Holmes said, "We don't see the points system as agreeable as a matter of principle, or in law. It restricts the players, their movement, and restricts their trade."

With so many talented Australian basketballers plying their skills overseas, the NBL would only boost its stock by being more accommodating to get them back and dumping the Player Points System for once and all.

HAVE YOUR SAY. Agree or disagree? Love or hate? Let us know what you think of this article by leaving a comment below and taking part in Australia's best independent sporting debate.

Report this topic


 

Anonymous
Two years ago
14:06 14 Nov 12

Reply #387478

re: Barlow's NBL return blocked by stupid points

Chuck Norris = Daniel Eade


Report this post



Chuck Norris
Two years ago
14:08 14 Nov 12

Reply #387479

re: Barlow's NBL return blocked by stupid points

Anon=muppet


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
14:15 14 Nov 12

Reply #387481

re: Barlow's NBL return blocked by stupid points

So many players don't understand how important an even league is. Putting the league first will gradually increase salaries and stability. Barlow cites job security but plays in Europe?!

Loads of players are rated a 10 and have jobs. At any time, a team could take on a Barlow in place of an import (given he's potentially better than many) but they don't. Points cap? Doubt it. More likely to be salary demands. If they can't afford someone, the points aren't so relevant. And who is going to begrudge owners the right to watch their spending when they are the ones with their money on the line?

How many players are OS because of the points cap? I don't buy that Barlow is for a second. Khazzouh, Bose, etc left of their own accord. Most teams would take Khazzouh on in place of an import, right? Dillon maybe? Could've been had in place of Massingale, I guess.

College returnees come in at three points, so the points cap isn't trouble for any of the new talent. Ingles and co are priced beyond the NBL, so it isn't them either. Others chase Europe to tick that career box or try to get a foothold and make more money.

Of course players will speak against it because their personal interest is in playing wherever pays them best and/or suits them (wanting to win, wanting to suck up to a Boomers coach, etc). Not many will directly have the best interest of the league at heart.

The one situation I can think of as a legitimate problem is with a team like Perth trying to build and retain a roster. As their younger players improve, they start coming up against the cap. Ideally, as a league, you want stronger teams to face this pressure and leach players (Wagstaff, Redhage or whoever) to weaker teams with space. However, we all want to see continuity with rosters so clubs can build identity. They can keep a Redhage by taking on a scrub rather than Bartlett (incoming player this year). If they didn't replace anyone though, then it could be an issue.

Previous loyalty concessions were a bit problematic in a few cases. e.g., being able to constantly re-contract someone at their original value, capping at five points, or chop and renew to take advantage of a reduced value mid-contract.


Report this post



Hopscotch
Two years ago
14:19 14 Nov 12

Reply #387483

re: Barlow's NBL return blocked by stupid points

I dont care who 'Chuck Norris' is but I do care that there are some great Aussie players being turned away from the NBL.

Seriously the NBL needs a massive shake up.

'Chuck Norris' are you still involved at Sandringham Sabres?


Report this post



Happy Days
Two years ago
14:24 14 Nov 12

Reply #387485

re: Barlow's NBL return blocked by stupid points

For the league to prosper we need the best possible talent playing here in Australia. It is the responsiblity of the clubs to work within there respective budgets and not go out there and send themselves broke.


Report this post



BJF
Two years ago
14:52 14 Nov 12

Reply #387492

re: Barlow's NBL return blocked by stupid points

What horse shite from David Barlow.
The points cap is not stopping him form returning in any way, nor Ingles , Newley , Jawaii.

More Daniel Eade crud


Report this post



Ricey
Two years ago
14:52 14 Nov 12

Reply #387493

re: Barlow's NBL return blocked by stupid points

Points system has never worked. Why the f**k would anyone defend it? An even league, oh the same league that is on the edge of destruction. If it isn't work, why fix it? That seems to be the NBL stance on things, and some of you people out there.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
15:08 14 Nov 12

Reply #387499

re: Barlow's NBL return blocked by stupid points

As if Barlow, if you wanted back into the NBL at NBL level money, many teams would be willing to find 10 points to fit him in, eg go with 1 import and have Barlow instead of a 2nd import, even stacked teams like Perth or NZ could do this by letting a import go if they wished, so the points cap is no issue for you or any boomer returning to the NBL.

The Kings probably have 10 points available NOW (or could get to it easily enough) and would love a SF of his level im sure, with Harvey out, so dont see how the points cap prevents him from returning.

Adam Gibson is also a boomer , 10 point player, his team folded, he didnt have too much trouble finding a job, if anything could have hindered it would have been salary demands not points cap!

Job security in Australia for a Boomer would be extremely high, how many boomers have been cut by NBL teams and not signed by anyone? most boomers are overseas due to $$$, which has nothing to do with the points cap.


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
15:17 14 Nov 12

Reply #387501

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Chuck Norris, I changed your topic title because it was completely incorrect and not supported by Barlow's quotes.

When many clubs are not spending the full cap, how do you think the marquee player rule would work? Obviously the points cap is no limitation.

Ricey, never worked? Bar the Crocs (who sacked two imports before the season began), every team is a game off .500 at minimum. The best league is one where anyone can win on any given night. Who is going to watch their team if it's likely to lose every game?

Without caps, we'd be looking at NZ and Perth a clear measure above everyone else. They already have a gap as it is.


Report this post



Camel 31
Two years ago
15:25 14 Nov 12

Reply #387502

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Abercrombie might be 1 point , not sure.
I lost the plot with this system.
Like the bounce in footy , time to move


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
15:32 14 Nov 12

Reply #387503

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Exactly, Isaac.

I personally would like to see Barlow put his money where his mouth is, i bet anything if he offered to take a 3 year minimum salary contract with the Kings right now the points cap wouldnt stand in his way and he would be back in the NBL. Infact id bet most teams would be willing to make roster changes to accomodate him in the points cap if money is no longer an issue.

the only reason those guys are in Europe is because of $$$, not points cap, if you take minimum salary, so money is out of the equation most teams would offer Barlow and his boomer teammates long term 3-5 year contracts without any worries from the points cap, and Barlow would have his job security.

Barlow wouldnt do this, due to $$$, not points cap, what BS quotes.


Report this post



PlaymakerMo
Two years ago
15:41 14 Nov 12

Reply #387505

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

I agree with Isaac. It's a useful temporary tool to distribute talent amongst the league's teams while the league grows. Only Perth could potentially be disadvantaged by this while all regional clubs are pretty much saved by it - net gain overall, imo.

The player point system does cause greater player movement than is ideal (from the players' perspective), but so long as the point allocation is managed properly by the NBL it doesn't impact job security.

Barlow, Ingles etc are playing overseas because NBL teams can't realistically meet salary demands, or the exposure required to showcase for the better basketball clubs (e.g. NBA teams)... again, essentially to make more money. It's only ever been money-related reasons that has kept those 10-point Aussies overseas.

Those who are against the point system, enjoy a league compromising of: Perth, Melbourne, Sydney and New Zealand. See how entertaining that would be before sponsorship dies out and the league dissolves altogether.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
15:51 14 Nov 12

Reply #387509

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

The points system is merely an acknowledgement by the NBL that salary caps cannot be policed.
How does the NBA do it? Full transparency.


Report this post



MACDUB
Two years ago
15:55 14 Nov 12

Reply #387511

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Barlow's argument is invalid.

At the end of the day its the SALARY CAP which is going to prevent a team from signing a lot of big name players.

I don't know why Barlow is arguing.

He is never going to have a problem getting an NBL job. If he came back and said I want to play in the NBL, a lot of teams would go after him to be honest.

The Points System is more disadvantageous to the 2nd tier of players, like those rated 5-8.
I think Dillon was a 6 last year?
Those types of players really miss out because teams mostly always have very little left over.

The 10 point players, like Barlow, getting treated and signed first.


Report this post



Ricey
Two years ago
15:59 14 Nov 12

Reply #387513

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

The best league is one that is entertaining and financially viable. Explain to me how NBL meets either criteria?


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
16:12 14 Nov 12

Reply #387518

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

How does the NBA do it? Full transparency.
I think the argument against NBL salary transparency is one of these salaries being on par with the rest of us? The AFL doesn't have salary transparency at this point.

I'm not against a marquee player rule, in fact, I think they might as well introduce it. But I dislike fans getting caught up on it being a panacea for the league. Will it lead to gripes when NZ uses theirs on Jackson, Adelaide on Gibson, and half the other clubs never use theirs? "Booooring!" I believe the max salary thing was removed a couple of years ago and if clubs aren't all spending the cap, then they are not prevented from getting a more expensive player now unless they are a strong club already at the cap. If it hasn't happened yet, then I suspect the clubs haven't pushed for it.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
16:24 14 Nov 12

Reply #387521

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

To balance the league, you use a salary cap. Salary caps are abused by side-payments, which can be avoided by a player point cap.

The NBA is so horribly unbalanced that a high percentage of NBA games are pretty much ignored. Teams sell special season tickets that just cover visits from Lakers, Heat, etc. For most clubs, the crowd that attends those games are more interested in seeing the famous visitors.

Many local fans are doomed to never witness success, but the NBA is not concerned, that is not the income source, and the players aren't concerned, they like weak caps. Team owners are roughly divided into the rich-winners and the poor-profiteers.

We should be thankful for salary/points caps.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
16:55 14 Nov 12

Reply #387529

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Keep the points system, we need an evem comp!


Report this post



natwhereyouat
Two years ago
18:05 14 Nov 12

Reply #387531

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Very misleading.

Khazzouh, Bose, Worthington, Dillon, Nevill and so on, do not not play in the NBL because of their points rating.

Khazzouh and Bose left the NBL for more $ and to play overseas.

Worthington (despite rumours of him almost signing with Melbourne) did not want to play in Australia this year. He wanted (as always) more money and to play o/s again. Rightly so, this will likely be his last big pay day.

Dillon HAD a contract. Asked to be released, committed to the Blaze before they folded, when they did he tried with Cairns and even looked at Wollongong who didn't sign him and that had nothing to do with his points at all. But a variety of other reasons which i won't put on a public forum. And then was stuck in no mans land because all rosters were full at his position. Again, nothing to do with his points.

Nevill already decided to make a run at the NBA before the end of the NBL season. He didn't make it and is still trying to make a Euro roster/waiting for NBA injury call up. Nothing to do with points.

Who else isn't in the league this year... Gynes. He wasn't re-signed by the Kings because Heal wasn't a big fan (for some reason) and was not contacted by another team. Nothing to do with his points.

OK - So WHO is not in the NBL this year because of their points?

Players are not in the league and playing in Euro because either A. They're not good enough for the NBL or B. They want more money.


Report this post



BJF
Two years ago
18:12 14 Nov 12

Reply #387532

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Best post ever


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
18:16 14 Nov 12

Reply #387534

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Amen, Nat, hit the nail on the head!


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
18:25 14 Nov 12

Reply #387537

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Another point is that while leagues like the AFL and NBA have player drafts to distribute quality new talent to weaker clubs, the NBL does not.

(The NBL likely doesn't have a draft partly because salaries in the NBL are not high enough to require forcing young players interstate based on a draft choice.)

Salary cap and points cap versus salary cap and player draft.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
18:39 14 Nov 12

Reply #387539

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Everyone says that the points system evens things out but if dellavedova was to come back to the nbl as a 3 next year even though he would be playing like a 10 it would not be fair.


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
18:50 14 Nov 12

Reply #387541

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

After his initial contract, he would be re-rated.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
20:58 14 Nov 12

Reply #387551

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

the point system evens things out? that's why there's a team sitting at 0 - 8 in this "great" league


Report this post



orbit
Two years ago
21:12 14 Nov 12

Reply #387555

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

'Barlow cites job security but plays in Europe?!'

Isaac, i think his pay packet is worth living on the edge for!


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
21:32 14 Nov 12

Reply #387559

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

The points system has got nothing to do with Woolpert hand picking on a paad scouting trip to the USA to pick imports that were duds. The selecting an injured 35yo import in Abney.
Hinder is a 6. Past it.Holmes7, fair, allen 5,Crawrord 9. Last season was a good one for him and the crocs. The rest of the team are scrubs. How is that the fault of the Points system?
Poor player selection seems to me to be the problem. next problem is how long some of these palets are still contracted. Including Woolpert.


Report this post



Vart
Two years ago
07:42 15 Nov 12

Reply #387594

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

The job security concern raised by Barlow is false. If he stated right now that he wanted to come back to Australia for the next NBL season, he would have no trouble obtaining a 3-year deal from a number of clubs despite his 10 point rating.


Report this post



Camel 31
Two years ago
08:43 15 Nov 12

Reply #387598

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Seems the top team does have 9 extra points , vide Abercrombie loop hole , which helps parity.


Report this post



BJF
Two years ago
08:59 15 Nov 12

Reply #387601

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Camel NZ re-signed aber in the off season to a new contract which superseded his 1 point contract he is playing as a 10 point player this season.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
09:18 15 Nov 12

Reply #387604

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Ricey, explain how the points criteria is impacting on either?


Report this post



Mick
Two years ago
09:36 15 Nov 12

Reply #387605

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

I don't think parity at all costs is a good outcome. Bottom feeder clubs provide valid justification for giving young players big minutes, which is a good thing for the long-term health of a league


Report this post



Mystro
Two years ago
09:38 15 Nov 12

Reply #387606

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

pretty sure Pledger was also resigned as a 8 this season


Report this post



Mick
Two years ago
09:50 15 Nov 12

Reply #387608

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

I think a league where there is a sustainable cycle of re-building and contending is the best way forward.

This minimises roster turnover and allows the public to identify with their team's players throughout the growth of their career, which is the best way to get a city to connect with their team.


Report this post



Daly29
Two years ago
09:50 15 Nov 12

Reply #387609

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Gee what a surprise, a Daniel Eade article full of crap. Honest to God, why do people even bother with the trash this guy spews out on a regular basis?


Report this post



MW
Two years ago
10:29 15 Nov 12

Reply #387613

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

I think when you look at it, if he's trying to come back then that means potentially a current top player maybe gone? essentially it might be hard for NBL to maintain a high level of basketball with a point cap system. Whilst I understand it's important to have levelled playing field, but this might also be why the level of competition may not be as good as it can be.


Report this post



Isaac
Two years ago
10:49 15 Nov 12

Reply #387618

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

MW, calculations might be slightly off as NBL's numbers vary and their roster calculations are old:

Cairns could swap a 10-point Barlow in for Grabau if he retired after this season and stay under the cap.

Melbourne could let Greer go, keep Flynn plus take on Barlow's 10 points.

Top team Perth could release a guy getting 0.8 PPG, keep Redhage even if he stayed a 10, and take on Barlow.

Hawks could get him when Saville retires.

The Crocs could get him in for Cedar, assuming Abney is appropriately rated. Maybe even for C Cedar.

I don't think Barlow into the league would mean that a top tier player need be pushed out. And even if it did, it could happen at the expense of an import.

Further, if the league adds a new team, that's 70 more points to burn on Barlows, Dillons, imports, etc. Easy.

Points are not keeping Barlow out of the league.


Report this post



MW
Two years ago
12:20 15 Nov 12

Reply #387650

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

I like the points system. Keeps it fair.


Report this post



curtley
Two years ago
13:18 15 Nov 12

Reply #387659

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Marquee player should be brought in and points system kept however if the team's marquee player is American (or not Aussie) I don't believe they should be allowed two imports, this also means the team could potentially sign someone who is a real drawcard (like some of the players who are now in China).


Report this post



Mystro
Two years ago
13:47 15 Nov 12

Reply #387666

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Marquee player rule sounds real cool until a team with more money than everyone else cashes up for an absolute stud and then everyone whinges how unfair it is that their team can't throw an extra 750-Mill at an legit NBA player (ie Kenyon Martin, Juan Carlos Navarro etc). I like the idea of a points cap to keep everyone honest but I think it needs to be tweaked a little so that loyalty is rewarded and vets can see out their Careers at their respected clubs whilst remaining competitive across the board, other than that aspect I think it is pretty good.


Report this post



Wookiee
Two years ago
14:30 15 Nov 12

Reply #387681

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

What complete and utter bollocks... as others have already stated above, there is NO way that the points cap is restricting Barlow from coming back and playing in the NBL, let alone any other Australian playing overseas... yet more tripe from this "journalist", the term of which could not be more thinly applied...


Report this post



curtley
Two years ago
14:35 15 Nov 12

Reply #387683

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Mystro don't you think the statistical output of even the best player the NBL could afford would rarely account for more than most solid two import combos?


Report this post



Mystro
Two years ago
05:42 16 Nov 12

Reply #387774

re: David Barlow: Points system impacts job security

Curtley, yeah in most cases.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the standard of Imports or local players anyway.


Report this post





 

Reply to this topic

Name Email

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Mimas 55

Title
Rules: You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players.
Message

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.
 


Recent Posts

.
.