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MAGICMIKE
Two years ago

#30224

Development of 36ers

Just throwing this out there!!
Give the Youth of this state a go!!Tom Daly should have been given more of a go earlier, has been a good player for all his junior years, commits to the 36ers program and just doesn't get the minutes on the court to progress and establish himself in the league!
Maybe some heartache to start with but our program will get benefits in the long Run!
Yes it is a business but bring the local crowds back, were poor again! by having players that the crowds know, stop the outgoings of national and state representative players and harbor the youth by giving opportunities instead of what is happening.
I don't care who coaches the 36 ers next year. Please stop the rot, i want to see the 36ers back to their glory days and not bickering about a coach who will face his own record at the end of the year!!

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Anonymous
Two years ago
18:10 13 Dec 12

Reply #392115

re: Development of 36ers

Just don't know that he has that high of a ceiling. We also have almost too many point guards already.


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Ingles13
Two years ago
18:46 13 Dec 12

Reply #392120

re: Development of 36ers

I'd rather a winner in Adam Doyle be given a shot this season ahead of Daly.


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MACDUB
Two years ago
18:58 13 Dec 12

Reply #392125

re: Development of 36ers

South Australia must have some unbelievable talent out there among the younger players.

For some reason though, there hasn't been development players come through the ranks and develop into NBL regulars.

Is it because a lot of talented South Australian basketball players go to College in the US?

Or do talented youngsters actually have an aversion to representing the 36ers?


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Fill Smythe
Two years ago
20:19 13 Dec 12

Reply #392136

re: Development of 36ers

The '86 team (aside from imports) was stacked full of S.A. players.
Maybe the passion for the home state was a factor.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
20:38 13 Dec 12

Reply #392138

re: Development of 36ers

Funniest topic of the year!! Anyone that thinks Tom Daly is going to be a legit NBL players has no idea!!!
As soon as he is too old for a development spot he will be gone from the NBL for good.
Now the real test for him will be if he can be a dominate the SEABL with the Pioneers! If he can't then we are completly wasting our time with him!
The only reason he is still in the picture is because the sixers need training fodder and he probably wouldn't have a full time job so would be perfect for that role!!
Sorry sturt fans but he is just no where near good enough for NBL!! And he doesnt need court time for anyone to see that!!


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HoldenV8
Two years ago
21:21 13 Dec 12

Reply #392147

re: Development of 36ers

While I do agree that we need to develop more local players who are good enough to get regular court time in the NBL, I don't believe that crowds will return to the Adelaide Arena simply because we have more South Aussies in the 36ers lineup than we currently do. What will bring the crowds back is the team playing entertaining and winning basketball.

Having more locals may help bring some people through the doors at the arena, but IMO a lot more will come if we're winning, regardless if the 36ers had more South Aussies in their lineup or not.


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Isaac
Two years ago
21:41 13 Dec 12

Reply #392149

re: Development of 36ers

MACDUB, SA players who played NBL without going to college include Maher, Holmes, Newley, Ingles, Forman, Hill. The ones who went to college include Schenscher and Madgen.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
22:16 13 Dec 12

Reply #392157

re: Development of 36ers

Its an interesting one trying to keep all the local talent, or just recruiting the best you can get. Ie not worrying about going hard for Madgen, Schenscher (initally), Forman and recruiting Creek, Weigh, Johnson instead, is that really a significant upgrade by getting the non SA guys. I think the SA guys mentioned are just as good, yes all a bit older but right now id give the edge to the SA guys overall.

There doesnt seem to be a real emphasis on keeping the locals at the moment and probably hasnt since Ninnis first year when he bought back Schenscher, Holmes, Hill to play with Maher and Ng.

I just wonder would a team of say

Schenscher/Vasiljevic
Forman/Holmes
IMPORT (or Creek)/Hill
Madgen/Ng (or Burdon)
IMPORT (or Gibson)/Daly (maybe a Kersten or Sutton could have been kept in this spot)

Be better than our current team?

if we got the imports right or even called them Gibson and Creek, i reckon that line up would give our current team a fair shake, and a good mix of players to who would comlpiement each others skill sets i reckon. Also 8 out of 10 SA guys who the fans would have seen develop and get behind.

Maybe this is something that coaches of the 36ers should look at a bit more with losing top SA guys. We could have also had Newley and Ingles do stints here before going to the big euro bucks, which would also be exciting to watch.

I reckon recruiting and retaining the top young SA guys could easily lead to a winning franchise, which gives fans the best of both worlds. If the future produces players of similar level to our current SA NBL crop.

That probably is a line up that would have fit under both points and salary caps, but would have to be a case of bringing them in young and retaining them as you generally have to over pay guys to get them back, which makes it hard to fit under the salary cap.


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Tyrell
Two years ago
22:20 13 Dec 12

Reply #392158

re: Development of 36ers

What guys have left the 6ers and done well in the NBL? I'm talking 'Peter Bell' (leaves the Dockers as a youngster to go to North Melbourne and wins a premiership!) type stories?

Oscar Forman is definitely flourished at his two new clubs,
Jacob Holmes has done ok at Townsville, Brad Hill has done ok, but are there are any others?


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Anonymous
Two years ago
23:53 13 Dec 12

Reply #392169

re: Development of 36ers

Madgen was a development player under Smyth before going to college, not sure if he counts, but is now the leading scorer in the NBL and a MVP contender (well MVP belongs to Cedric) but he is one of the next best.

Schenscher did well at the Crocs as one of the main guys before coming back.

Wouldnt say Forman and Holmes have flourished to MVP level or anything but both are doing well in there roles.

Ingles and Newley were missed by the 36ers and flourished elsewhere before heading to Europe.

So there is some SA talent i would have been nice to got/kept there whole career.


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Tyrell
Two years ago
01:20 14 Dec 12

Reply #392173

re: Development of 36ers

Yer but Oscar in particular has developed far further and become better than he was, would he have become as good as he is now of he was being coached marty at the 6ers, who knows!


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Anonymous
Two years ago
01:50 14 Dec 12

Reply #392174

re: Development of 36ers

Yea maybe we not only go for SA players, well keep the elite we do similar with coaches, in hindsight i think we would have been better off keeping an SA local in Smyth, as Boti said, give him a few months off, a bit more freedom to get what he wants and he could have continued to do a great job, his worst season was probably better than Martys best, and he didnt churn through the imports either.

With Ninnis on the staff also, in hindsight again i wouldnt have minded giving him the freedom to replace Groves during the season (which Marty has been allowed many times) and Gilchrist once he got hurt and he may have done alot better also.

Even could have added Mahersy to the group once he retired if interested and groomed good SA born and bred coaches for the next couple of eras.

But hindsight is 20/20, everyone thought Marty would be good, but didnt work out, especially game day coaching, his recruiting of top young talent has been excellent.

Not too late to right the wrong, see if Smyth, Ninnis, Maher combo would be happy to take over and do everything to get Madgen and even Forman back in the next couple of seasons. Whilst keeping the bulk of our current Aussie talent.

I think i heard Cole preach on the importance of keeping SA talent in the state and how he did it well and was confident that when/if he was coaching no top SA talent would be playing elsewhere.

Not the be all and end all i know, but look where we could be if we had just done a better job of keeping those types of guys in the club over the past 5-10 years.


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Jason
Two years ago
07:46 14 Dec 12

Reply #392184

re: Development of 36ers

wow if South Australia has a good group of players how many junior national championships have they won?

they don't Develop good enough players, most state teams will come through with a group of NBL talent together in the junior national championships


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Tornado
Two years ago
08:41 14 Dec 12

Reply #392189

re: Development of 36ers

Jason....given our population compared to other states I think we provide just as many good players as do the other states. To say we dont develop talent as well as others shows your lack of knowledge.


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Vesta 95
Two years ago
09:02 14 Dec 12

Reply #392192

re: Development of 36ers

Winning National Championships would be more about depth than top line talent.

You dont need 3 NBL level players every year, just 1 every other year to fill out and NBL roster of 8 spots.


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Vesta 95
Two years ago
09:09 14 Dec 12

Reply #392195

re: Development of 36ers

So current SA only team including only 1 Import;

1/ Import - Daly
2/ Newley - Madgen
3/ Ingles - Hill
4/ Foreman - Holmes
5/ Schensher - Vasiljevic.

If thats not enough talent to win at NBL level then I'll go heave.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
09:18 14 Dec 12

Reply #392197

re: Development of 36ers

Exactly, even if you take Ingles and Newley out for an import and another half decent Aussie thats still a very strong line up.


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anon
Two years ago
09:51 14 Dec 12

Reply #392202

re: Development of 36ers

vesta even if you had the american dream team as long as Clarke and his lot are coaching you couldn't win a chook raffle


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Vesta 95
Two years ago
11:04 14 Dec 12

Reply #392211

re: Development of 36ers

anon,

Where did I say that? I said that SA produces enough NBL level talent as can be clearly seen above.

In fact I might be critical of coaches for the 36ers not doing more to retain nor recruit that talent.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
13:49 14 Dec 12

Reply #392242

re: Development of 36ers

SA even produced the great Lindsay Gaze too.


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HoldenV8
Two years ago
23:53 14 Dec 12

Reply #392297

re: Development of 36ers

Ah very true. Lindsay Gaze was born in Adelaide on 16 August 1936.

Of all the SA born players who have played in the NBL since 1979 with the 36ers, Bearcats or whoever, what would your dream roster read like? Mine would probably read something like....(in alphabetical order)

Peter Ali, Mark Bradtke, Oscar Forman, Brett Maher (c), Mike McKay, Darryl Pearce, Paul Rogers, Tony Ronaldson, Luke Schenscher, Phil Smyth.

Since I have The General as a player I'd have two time NBL championship coach Lindsay Gaze in charge. I would have gone for Ken Cole but for the fact that he was born in Sydney on 15 October 1943 (if my math is right that makes the King 69 years old).

My dream SA player/coach combo has won a combined 25 NBL championships (20 player, 5 coach), while the playing roster has represented Australia at a combined 18 Olympic games since Moscow in 1980 when Peter Ali and Phil Smyth were Boomers. Not a bad advertisement for SA Basketball, even though Gaze and Ronaldson spent their junior years in Melbourne .


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Very Old
Two years ago
08:03 15 Dec 12

Reply #392310

re: Development of 36ers

Andy Campbell ?


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MAGICMIKE
Two years ago
10:53 15 Dec 12

Reply #392322

re: Development of 36ers

Does anyone know the true numbers on South Australian players playing at US NCAA colleges? Who also have represented their country "Australia" at junior tournaments!and have to go else where to follow their dreams! and develop?

Unfortunately they have to leave SA to further their playing experience because they all realize they will not get a go here for the 36 ers !! Sure there may not be a spot for all, creates a strong competitive program that they don't have currently because spots are housed by players who aren't performing and knowing their roles!

What is the philosophy? Pick players recommended by the AIS program?

Some players like Madgen developed to the level they are currently at by going to US college, getting good coaching and court time (opprotunity), playing in a good program and having a role in his team.

Why isn't he playing in SA? Once bitten!

"development Player" what does that mean when you never give them the chance to find their role/place in the team?

This is the true questions that need to be asked of coaches who do not carry this philosophy, change your program to house identified SA junior players and rotate them through the roster to be given exposure and chances!!court time, not just training buddy's otherwise how will you ever know how good they are or could be?

Maintain Good imports, this is the other problem.


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