An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 9:43 pm, Wed 1 Oct 2014 | Posts: 516,780 | Last 7 days: 778

Dunk Basketball Uniforms  

Advertising spot currently available.
Minimum three month period (1.5+ million page views, 92% Australian).
Email isaac@triplezero.com.au for rates and options.

from the stats room
Two years ago

#30269

Juniors Season so Far

Coming into summer and we are finished for the year, thought it might be interesting to look at how clubs are going. Mind you, tems would still be tinkering and form would be fickle his early. But here are the current results if State Champs where given on the ladders as we speak;

State Boys

Sturt 18 points
West 6 points
Centrals 5 points
Eastern 5 points
North 3 points
Norwood 3 points
Woodville 2 points
Southern 1 point
South 1 point
Forestville 0 points

State Girls

Sturt 13 points
Forestville 12 points
Eastern 9 points
Norwood 5 points
North 3 points
West 1 point
Southern 1 point
Centrals 0 points
South 0 points
Woodville 0 points

Overall State

Sturt 31 points
Eastern 14 points
Forestville 12 points
Norwood 8 points
West 7 points
North 6 points
Centrals 5 points
Woodville 2 points
Southern 2 points
South 1 point

Reserve Boys

Sturt 18 points
Norwood 7 points
Forestville 6 points
North 6 points
West 4 points
Woodville 2 points
Eastern 1 point
Centrals 0 points
South 0 points
Southern 0 points

Girls Reserve

Forestville 18 points
Sturt 13 points
Eastern 3 points
North 3 points
West 2 points
Centrals 2 points
Norwood 2 points
South 1 point
Western Magic 1 point
Woodville 0 points
Southern 0 points

Overall Reserve

Sturt 31 points
Forestville 24 points
Norwood 9 points
North 9 points
West 6 points
Eastern 4 points
Woodville 2 points
Centrals 2 points
South 1 point
Southern 0 points

Observations:

Sturt seem to be in their up year positioning themselves to take some trophies back off of Forestvile.

Forestville boys certainly letting down the party in the battle for top dog. Very suprise to see them having no top 4 teams at this time of year. Girls powering along nicely.

Eastern doing well in div 1 and could push for the girls. Not a lot of depth from their div 2 results though.

Norwood having mixed results, a couple of boys teams around the mark, but only their 18's score in the girls which is not a good sign for the future.

West doing well in upper age boys, but disasterous in lower levels. Girls arent bad, just havent convered into points.

North are just like west although reversed and they have some U12's coming through in the boys. Their girls are good at the top ages.

Centrals have a great result in 14 boys and their 16's will be good again next year. Girls are struggling from their mass country defections.

Woodville obviously struggling in girls with a lack of teams , but their boys seem beter than their points would suggest. Having a good U12 team is promising for the future.

Southern have dropped a long way, especially in their boys program where they score only 1 point. Depth is an issue, and it is interesting that we are not hearing the general whoofing that comes from what would now seem to be over performing.

South have a big hole to fill and it will take some time to either improve or fade away. Good numbers coming through but need to maintain those players.

Report this topic


 

Jack Toft
Two years ago
09:04 19 Dec 12

Reply #393046

re: Season so Far

Lol. I was about to post something on the boys div 1.

Ok Punters, the junior teams have just played round 9 which means that all clubs have played each other once. Knowing this is Christmas week and with all the CD's and JDO's getting together to knock the top off a Crownie or three, I thought I would work out who has the bragging rights in the boys Div 1 (U12 to U18).

Gold Medal: Sturt
Top of the table in 3, 2nd to Centrals in U14. Played 35, Won 33, Drew 1, Lost 1 (Win rate of 96%, Game % of 183%)

Silver Medal: Norwood
Average ladder position of 5.5 (8, 7, 4, 3) Won 46%, Game % 106%

Bronze Medal (on recount) Mavs
Average ladder position of 5.5 (2, 3, 10, 7) Won 46%, Game % 91%

The Rest:
4. Woodville 5.75 Ladder; 44% Wins; 92% Game %
5. Forestville 6.00 Ladder; 49% Wins; 101% Game %
6. North 6.00 Ladder; 49% Wins; 96% Game %
7. Centrals 6.25 Ladder; 39% Wins; 81% Game %
8. South 6.25 Ladder; 37% Wins; 90% Game %
9. Southern 6.50 Ladder; 40% WIns; 89% Game %
10. West 4.70 Ladder; 57% Wins; 96% Game %
(Placed 10th due to not having an U12 Div 1 team)


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
10:24 19 Dec 12

Reply #393055

re: Juniors Season so Far

Sturt person puffing out his chest!!

Its summer, counts for nothing


Report this post



';'
Two years ago
10:36 19 Dec 12

Reply #393059

re: Juniors Season so Far

Yes its a Sturt person but it is a good start I think... If they were down the bottom you would be slagging them off.


Report this post



,
Two years ago
13:27 19 Dec 12

Reply #393098

re: Juniors Season so Far

Eagles will be up there and take state champs again - will win state girls and reserve girls - sturt will get state and reserve boys. But eagles will win with more convincing results


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
14:27 19 Dec 12

Reply #393104

re: Juniors Season so Far

Jack, u LEGEND, are you able to please whip up something similar for d1 & 2 boys combined???


Report this post



.
Two years ago
14:39 19 Dec 12

Reply #393105

re: Juniors Season so Far

THEY RELEASED DATE FOR STATE CHAMPS ?


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
14:51 19 Dec 12

Reply #393114

re: Juniors Season so Far

Wonder when Forestville will realise their boys coaching lineup sucks & has been holding them back for years? Maybe a Kiwi will help them to discover this...


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
15:49 19 Dec 12

Reply #393141

re: Juniors Season so Far

Statsroom

Please send this to the Executive at Southern so they can see how far they have dragged down the Club with the decisons they have made over the past 18 months.

Hopefully actual oncourt results may bring them back from there constant state of denial.


Report this post



concnerned
Two years ago
16:22 19 Dec 12

Reply #393155

re: Juniors Season so Far

Sturt are doing well in all grades.
So hopefully the will not be on the hunt to poach more players from other clubs.


Report this post



';'
Two years ago
16:27 19 Dec 12

Reply #393160

re: Juniors Season so Far

Executive at Southern have been screwing the program for more than 18 months.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
17:40 19 Dec 12

Reply #393179

re: Juniors Season so Far

Looks like Sturt are the club to beat.

Centrals dominated under 14 boys last year so not a surprise they're up there again.

When are the state champ fixtures decided?


Report this post



LOL
Two years ago
19:42 19 Dec 12

Reply #393195

re: Juniors Season so Far

Actually it is somewhat suprising as most of the good players from last years U14 team went up to U16's and this same group 2 years ago didnt make finals.

What is suprising is that the U16 group has not won more games.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
19:49 19 Dec 12

Reply #393196

re: Juniors Season so Far

T'is the silly season


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
19:55 19 Dec 12

Reply #393198

re: Juniors Season so Far

Who's coaching Centrals 16 boys div 1?


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
21:02 19 Dec 12

Reply #393214

re: Juniors Season so Far

They did make finals two years ago didn't they?

It is only summer but I'd expect the 14s to still be up there.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
21:05 19 Dec 12

Reply #393216

re: Juniors Season so Far

hahahahaha gotta love these folks getting on here and talking up their summer results.


Report this post



Jack Toft
Two years ago
21:19 19 Dec 12

Reply #393219

re: Juniors Season so Far

Div 2 Boys. (the second team for a club has been removed as have Western Magic , so it is just the first Div 2 teams for the full clubs) The ladder positions have been rejigged, but no changes to the game scores.

Gold Medal...... Sturt

Ave Ladder of 1.3 Played 36, Won 34, Lost 1, Drew 1. Win% of 96%, Game % 204%

Silver Medal: Forestville
Ladder 3.5, Win 65%, Game 137%

Bronze: Norwood
Ladder 4.0 Win 60%, Game 121%

The Rest.....
4. North 4.5, 64%, 124% - playing better than Norwood, but Norwood higher on ladders.
5. West 6.3, 33%, 72%
6. Southern 6.8 39%, 83%
7. Woodville 6.8 38% 62%
8. Centrals 7.3 33% 77%
9. South 7.5 25% 81%

10 Mavs 7.5 33% 85% (placed under South due to 3 of 4 teams)

Together...
1. Sturt 1.25, 96%, 192%
2. Forestville, 4.75, 57%, 116%
3. Norwood 4.75, 53%, 112%
4. North 5.13, 56%, 108%
5. Woodville 6.25, 41%, 77%
6. Tigers 6.63, 39%, 86%
7. Centrals 6.75, 36%, 79%
8. South 6.88, 31%, 86%

9. West 5.46, 44%, 83%
10. Mavs 6.50, 40%, 89%


Well done to Sturt.


Report this post



europa
Two years ago
21:41 19 Dec 12

Reply #393221

re: Juniors Season so Far

"playing better than Norwood, but Norwood higher on ladders". WTF are you on about Jack, you're losing your touch lately champ.


Report this post



Jack Toft
Two years ago
22:16 19 Dec 12

Reply #393227

re: Juniors Season so Far

North have won more games, but Norwood are sitting higher than them on average on the ladders


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
23:09 19 Dec 12

Reply #393236

re: Juniors Season so Far

As a West person, yes I can say our 12s and 14s aren't very strong. Well almost disaterous. But when the next crop of U10s come up, I believe we're heading in the right direction.

At 14s, I believe it is time for Denis to step aside, he hasn't gone anywhere with his teams in recent times. New blood is needed.

Under 12s are building up. Morale boosting win at Centrals on friday, from all reports. I've heard 66% of the squad are bottom aged kids. Growth is there.


Report this post



Tosser
Two years ago
00:25 20 Dec 12

Reply #393246

re: Juniors Season so Far

You guys are all wankers without a life {though you do make for some entertaining reading} LOL
Who gives a toss how many have won what, isn't it about kids enjoying sport, oops sorry the sturt parents care about dominating, because its all about the results for how much money they have pumped into the club for little johnny to get a game, but oh no sorry their kid got dropped from ones to twos because the club decided they weren't winning by enough so they poached some players
Wwwaaahhh now we are crying because johnny was promised this and you only delivered that, but thats ok we believe in your programme and lies, for now anyway Ha Ha ha ha ha

Basketball in this state would be so much better without sturt and forrestvile, why don't you 2 go start your own comp , Boring pro relegate, just play against each other, thats your ultimate dream , you don't give a stuff about this state and development you just care about yourselves and your own petty results


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
01:20 20 Dec 12

Reply #393247

re: Juniors Season so Far

RE: "Tosser"...

spot on mate, love reading these losers talking this up like it's the be all and end all. Get a life you nobody's, as long as the kids are enjoying the sport that's all that matters.


Report this post



.
Two years ago
04:43 20 Dec 12

Reply #393250

re: Juniors Season so Far

these people are the ones that push the benchmark.

otherwise you would have your social league.




Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
06:46 20 Dec 12

Reply #393252

re: Juniors Season so Far

push the benchmark?

I see nothing more than stage Mums and Dads puffing out their chests and bleating on about how good they're kids are.

It is rather pathetic.


Report this post



.
Two years ago
06:49 20 Dec 12

Reply #393254

re: Juniors Season so Far

i cant see who posts other than someone with a basketball and mathematical interest


Report this post



Jack Toft
Two years ago
08:03 20 Dec 12

Reply #393267

re: Juniors Season so Far

Comparisons will always be made and discussions held. Isn't it better to have a neutral third party assist to ensure the facts are discussed, not perception?

Sturt have done very well with a win rate of 96% of games played - very impressive. I would suggest that the rest of the competitors in the boy's competition is relatively close. JDO's and CD's will always compare season to season and look at groups coming through their system to see how they are going.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The Sturt play style is very predictable, pretty simple and basic, but very effective in its delivery.


Report this post



from the stats room
Two years ago
08:18 20 Dec 12

Reply #393269

re: Juniors Season so Far

Good work Jack on the wins% as a basis. Do you have a similar results based package for the girls as this would be much closer with Forestville probably on top.


Report this post



concnerned
Two years ago
08:55 20 Dec 12

Reply #393281

re: Juniors Season so Far

Well said Tosser.
Basketball will not continue to grow as a sport while Sturt and Forestville continue to poach players from other clubs.

Also its not good for player development when you play in a strong team that wins so easily each week.
Players will only develop with a hard pressure game each week which will only happen with an even competition.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
08:59 20 Dec 12

Reply #393283

re: Juniors Season so Far

its kids basketball, think that is what is being forgotten here.

And those people that like to have a snipe at committees you can always go to another club!!


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
09:02 20 Dec 12

Reply #393285

re: Juniors Season so Far

Interesting fact is those that engage in this seem to have the same poor committees/coaches etc at the other clubs they move to. Sad souls really.


Report this post



Jack Toft
Two years ago
09:14 20 Dec 12

Reply #393290

re: Juniors Season so Far

Girls to come. It's crazy week this week so close to Christmas


Report this post



A parent
Two years ago
10:36 20 Dec 12

Reply #393299

re: Juniors Season so Far

To Tosser, Concnerned, anon #393252 and anon #393283,

How exactly do you measure the performance of your program? And assess your decisions over your junior prorgam?

You people all talk like those people who were in charge at my previous club. When I went to them and asked why we are doing poorly and losing players which affected my kids team they told me that its because they think juniors is for fun and that everyone should just train when they want and enjoy themselves and that seniors is where it matters. Then I found out exactly how much of our junior fees went into paying the senior program and how many people in our senior program were from elsewhere.

I see district basketball as elite level baskteball. We train twice every week, play 40 weeks of the year and it costs us as a family nearly $2500 per child just to do the minimum. And thats before tournaments and camps.

To then turn around and say that we should all be happy and let evenone be equal is a joke. We could just play social basketball for less than a quarter of that and we would be no worse off.

If your child wants to be good at the sport, it starts at a young age. And if you make that commitment and your local club is not, what are you suppose to do?

We chose to take our kids to a club that had the processes we thought would best suit our kids long term needs.

If our previous club had of had those same values, we would never have moved. So to heap blame on those clubs because they provide a better service is just plain wrong when your club doesnt even want to try and give kids an elite pathway, because it is your own choice, not some outside influence making kids leave.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
10:45 20 Dec 12

Reply #393301

re: Juniors Season so Far

Don't you love statistics. What is needed with any measure, if it is fact relevant, are trends. These measure may give an indication for state champs, maybe!!

But do they tell if a club is improving or if the future looks rosy or not. Perhaps looking to the future there should be an emphasis on the younger age groups - perhaps U10 and U12 or even limit it to U10 and U12 D2.

The upper age group for Norwood are dragging up their average but what happens in a year or two when they move on and their very poor performing lower age groups come through. I guess they will need to work hard as one of the three top clubs in having players from other clubs transfer to them. The three clubs with highest number of recruits from other clubs includes Norwood - I guess the other two are obvious.

What I find amazing is two things - why are Forstville girls so good and the boys so so at the moment and How does Forestville field so many girl teams when basketball generally is struggling with girl numbers!


Report this post



.
Two years ago
10:58 20 Dec 12

Reply #393303

re: Juniors Season so Far

everybody loves a winner


Report this post



Gaylord Focker
Two years ago
11:04 20 Dec 12

Reply #393305

re: Juniors Season so Far

Tosser, by name and by nature it seems...

Do you teach your kids to play sport to have fun and just enjoy themselves regardless of whether they win or lose? I'm sorry to burst your bubble and bring you hurtling back to reality, but sport is COMPETITIVE, Tosser...

It's attitudes like yours that are hurting the very core of Australian sport at all levels. It's NOT ok to lose. You should be teaching kids that winning is EVERYTHING. If you don't win, you work your butt off so next time, you give yourself every chance to win. If you don't win again, keep working harder until you do.

This "it's OK to lose" culture we are teaching our kids today is a disgrace.

Sturt is a dominant club and they should be very proud because they simply work harder than their competitors. I reign from a dominant VIC club, where as a junior, we had some epic battles with Sturt. Every other club from every other state were sub-par in comparison.

Makes me so flippin angry reading comments like yours. "Don't worry that you lost. All that matters is you had fun" F that!!! That's loser talk from people who are happy with mediocrity.

Sounds like jealousy to me, Tosser...


Report this post



MP
Two years ago
11:21 20 Dec 12

Reply #393311

re: Juniors Season so Far

^
Gaylord,

We need to separate a commitment to a sporting team, to what happens in life.

sometimes you can lose but still win - it's called sportsmanship.

The point is, in a sporting environment.it's great to play a competitive game and win, but winning isn't everything, sometimes you lose and that is ok too.

In life, What kind of example are you ('you' in the rhetorical sense) setting kids if winning is EVERYTHING?Then a situation occurs where there may not be a clear winner, you havent given them any ground to accept the fact that they may not conquer every mountain.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
11:25 20 Dec 12

Reply #393313

re: Juniors Season so Far

#301 - You said "The three clubs with highest number of recruits from other clubs includes Norwood - I guess the other two are obvious." Where did you get this information, or did you just make it up yourself? Unless you are in a position to track every player transfer (which you are not) then don't make stuff up.

The reason players leave clubs like yours to play at Sturt, Forestville and Norwood is because people like you spend too much time complaining about your players being poached and not enough time fixing the problems that make the kids want to leave in the first place.


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
11:26 20 Dec 12

Reply #393314

re: Juniors Season so Far

Here's the problem with you Focker!

Competitive kids are fantastic when it's intrinsic.

However, the problem is parents over involving themselves in their childs competitions pushing them to "be a winner", then when their kids don't enjoy what they do, they wonder why, then blame others (team mate, coaches, club, committees etc.) when their kids don't enjoy what they're doing.

Just let your kids enjoy sport. If they enjoy competing then great. There will be many varying reasons why they play and it's not always for the competitive aspect.

The key is try to intrinsically motivate them. If they're not competitive then ride with that.


Report this post



.
Two years ago
12:23 20 Dec 12

Reply #393329

re: Juniors Season so Far

basketball means different things to different people.


Report this post



A parent
Two years ago
12:38 20 Dec 12

Reply #393341

re: Juniors Season so Far

Isn't Div 1 meant to be providing for those kids that have 'intrinsic competitiveness'?

If so why do those clubs that preach and practice playing nice and performing badly supprised when families move to those clubs that provide them with what they need?


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
13:42 20 Dec 12

Reply #393361

re: Juniors Season so Far

#313

I am not affiliated with any club any more. Those stats are kept by BSA and yes the three teams I mentioned are correct.

I do have the facts - what I dont know is why is Norwood so far behind Sturt and Forestville


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
14:40 20 Dec 12

Reply #393380

re: Juniors Season so Far

probably because they dont walk into other clubs stadiums with the state coaching director and poach players!


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
15:05 20 Dec 12

Reply #393387

re: Juniors Season so Far

#361, you do not have access to those stats so stop talking crap. You are making stuff up to suit your argument.

Also, you must be talking about girls because the stats above prove that Norwood's boys are ahead of Forestville's. Forestville's boys are an absolute joke at the moment. Norwood's girls are just as bad.

Please stick to the facts and don't invent stuff in your head because it sounds good.


Report this post



Juno
Two years ago
15:36 20 Dec 12

Reply #393400

re: Juniors Season so Far

So who is it that Norwood and Forestville cant walk into a Stadium with the State Coaching Director and yet are able to poachmore players and perform worse?


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
16:40 20 Dec 12

Reply #393421

re: Juniors Season so Far

A parent, but living your life vicariously through your kids doesn't help them. Infact it kills their enjoyment. Just let them play!


Report this post



A parent
Two years ago
17:45 20 Dec 12

Reply #393435

re: Juniors Season so Far

No one is suggesting that.

Where is the fun in turning up to trainings when half you team dont bother?

Why put in the extra work when you club doesnt recognise that its about performing well.

How wants to spend money on elite level sport and get participation level results.

I changed because my kids were hating losing each week because the club and team didnt really seem to care.

It was pretty much move to another club, or watch my kids stop enjoying themselves and move to another sport.


Report this post



Jack Toft
Two years ago
14:25 23 Dec 12

Reply #393818

re: Juniors Season so Far

GIRLS Div 1 and 2 combined (no ladder position)

Forestville (11 teams) P 93, W 74, D 1 (80% wins, 182% Game)
Sturt (10) 74%, 168%
Norwood (8) 44%, 87%
West (8) 40% 76%
North (8) 38% 89%
Southern (8) 30% 75%

Mavs (6) 68% 133%
South (6) 34% 62%
Centrals (5) 21% 56%
Woodville (3) 23% 51%
Magic (1) 72% 131%

Most dominant team
U16-2 Forestville 2 9/9 Game % 419.7% - very well done girls
3 Forestville teams and 2 Sturt teams undefeated


Report this post



Anonymous
Two years ago
11:23 26 Dec 12

Reply #394068

re: Juniors Season so Far

SO @ A Parent? which club do you go from to get to Sturt and is your child playing in the division you expected?


Report this post



Dr J
Last year
07:53 23 Jan 13

Reply #400303

re: Juniors Season so Far

Being a parent of a kid at one of the 2 teams prominently mentioned.

I would love to see a junior competition that didn't have 2 dominant clubs. I would also love to see the top team of a div 1 comp not beat the bottom team by 100 pts. is it the fault of these 2 clubs? i think not. club envy is only the result that you and your club are not doing the work that these clubs are. Look at your own club and maybe help them get to where they need to be. you finish where you deserve.
Bear in mind also that the facilities of these clubs are probably the best in Adelaide, which is the saddest part of it all.

To those of you who are getting stuck into A Parent. Perhaps you are the reason that parents such as these are leaving your club. District basketball is a "competition".

If you don't want it to be a competition, then start your own social non-competition. Don't have scoring then you don't need goals. May not even need a ref. see how long that lasts.


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
09:09 23 Jan 13

Reply #400317

re: Juniors Season so Far

Dr J what a typical parent response.

To start with thank you for pointing out that parents view facilities as something a club is responsible for. It's not, facilities are gifted to some clubs by BSA. Clubs purely pay court hire for training's, and nothing for facilities like bars, canteens, offices.

That's the inequity people of 'jealous' clubs complain about. Thank you for agreeing.

The strong clubs are equally responsible for the unevenness of the competition. When the poach, recruit, accept players from weak clubs even though they have no room, no need and said family are from the other side of the city, these actions further dilute the depth of the competition.


Report this post



Dr J
Last year
10:16 23 Jan 13

Reply #400336

re: Juniors Season so Far

Anonymous
Obviously you are a very worldly basketball person and I am only a paying parent of no basketball background. I know who owns the stadiums. I also know who pays to go into them. I am also acutely aware of why parents send their kids to the more successful clubs. Even going from one of the two big clubs. To the other. All clubs are responsible for their own outcomes. Stop putting down the successful clubs. Appreciate the effort they are putting in to their juniors. Appreciate that they are creating benchmarks for the other clubs to exceed. They are NOT responsible for the failure of the other clubs.
Think about this. My kid played school basketball in a school competition at a local stadium after school. This stadium hosts a club that is not as successful as others. We were approached by a club as to whether my child would come and play for them. This club is one of the top two. It wasn't the club that played at the stadium!
I repeat. You finish where you deserve.


Report this post





 

Reply to this topic

Name Email

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Deimos 81

Title
Rules: You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players.
Message

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.
 


Aussie Basketball Travellers

Recent Posts

.
.