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PlaymakerMo
Two years ago

#30374

Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Clearly Marty Clarke has does many things right behind the scenes to earn the respect of his players. They seem to genuinely believe that they can (will?) win every time they step out onto the court, despite previous results.

I also admire Marty's demeanor both during and outside of games. Whatever the reason for his lack of emotiveness, it sets the example for his players not to get too high, or too low during the course of a play, game, or season.

This level of trust in his players and general demeanor has produced some frustrating moments for 36er fans as he generally reacts to in-game issues, rather than taking a proactive approach.

e.g. 6 points up vs. Perth (Cattalini Cup) late in the 4th and allowing play to continue following a Greg Hire trey -> broken offence -> Lische trey -> timeout called by Clarke AFTER blowing the lead...

The more I watch 36er games, the more I believe I see Marty's method to the madness that is often produced on-court.

While I see a system that is -- to the basketball purist in myself -- elegant in theory, and very technically sound, I don't see a system that is designed to exploit the strengths and minimize the weaknesses of our team as well as it should.

Story time:

Prior to the 2012 Olympics, Australia played in a tournament with an exclusive youth-orientated squad, consisting of Greenwood, Cadee, Norton, Blanchfield, Steindl etc. Every other country that participated in the tournament played close to their full squad, as evidenced by an Australia-China grand final where our hopeful future Boomers went up against the likes of Yi Jianlian...

Australia was absolutely dismantled in that game. After watching the opening rounds of the tournament and seeing Australia get away with a glaring weakness through sheer talent, it became too obvious for me to bare against China: these kids were playing in a system which was fundamentally sound, but so rigidly enforced it didn't allow them to exploit their strengths.

Every offensive possession was run through like it was a 5v0 training drill; getting through plenty of passes, cuts and screens until 5 seconds remained on the shot clock and someone was forced to throw up a prayer. They were playing to get through the offence, rather than playing to score.

Sound vaguely familiar?

Marty is clearly a man who understands basketball, but is coaching like he's still at the AIS.

Regarding 'how' and 'why' the current system is flawed is too exhaustive to even begin ranting.

What I propose for NEXT SEASON (it's too late to implement now) is a system similar in concept to that of the Perth Wildcats. Not in the sense that we would run the same offensive sets, defenses or recruit similar personnel, but in the sense that they play a physical, unorthodox style of basketball that -- to the basketball purist in myself -- is ugly to watch at times, but very, VERY effective.

Would this work with the current personnel?

- Weigh is as versatile as NBL players come
- Gibbo and Petrie were built for a physical style of basketball
- DJ and Schenscher (and to some extent, Creek) CANNOT play honest defence, nor as traditional 5's on offence
- Creek would excel in an offence that provides scoring opportunities in transition and off broken plays
- Personally, I think a system that doesn't allow much margin between thinking and acting would accelerate Cadee's growth as a player

Again, going into further detail is just too exhaustive and I'm not getting payed to submit my opinion (which some of you will no doubt be thankful for). I've also cut myself short because it's late and I will keep going if I don't stop myself soooooo this is my (heavily milked) two cents.

In closing: my view has been to give Marty this season to work it out the kinks, and hopefully produce some better results. He has the player's vote of confidence, whether he deserves it or not, so he has mine for now. If he fails to produce for the remainder of this season, we can say that we gave Marty three full seasons to prove his worth, and move on from this era.

Discuss.

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PlaymakerMo
Two years ago
02:06 31 Dec 12

Reply #395057

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

has done******

Damn it's so late! Apologies for the inevitable plethora of typos

/signingoff


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Isaac
Two years ago
02:31 31 Dec 12

Reply #395058

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

I'd guess that they are trying to run a Perth-like system, just don't have all the players for it. Works against Perth. Not so much everyone else.


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finals688
Two years ago
07:53 31 Dec 12

Reply #395068

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Highly structured coaches need to look at coaches like Owan Hughan , he actually teaches players how to PLAY basketball. Getting his athletes to READ the game and the individual situation then react in decisive ways to get a score.
Coaches who are blindly focussed on Xs and Os and do not let players trade on their strengths are creating a robotic game . Coaches also need to make better reads on game situations and be prepared to change and adjust.


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paul
Two years ago
08:37 31 Dec 12

Reply #395072

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Nah, it's very different to Perth's system which is based on transition flowing into offence and then players making reads based on the defence in the halfcourt.

Adelaide's system is not dissimilar to what you see in Europe, but the problem is NBL defences are a lot more disruptive, meaning you cant necessarily rely on going from A to B or D to E.

That is why the offence breaks down in second halves when the defence cranks up and gets in the passing lanes.

There is definitely room for reads in it but it is complex takes time for everyone to get on the same page and the player turnover each year means the team doesnt have that familiarity or experience.

In short, Clarke needs to simplify his offence in the second half and move the ball once the defence shifts rather than assuming the ball will be able to go certain places.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
08:48 31 Dec 12

Reply #395075

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

If I played for the 36ers a got huge minutes when I played crap I would love/respect the coach too. Wonder if guys like Creek and Petrie love the coach as much as Cadee and Weigh do?


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Isaac
Two years ago
08:54 31 Dec 12

Reply #395077

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Creek is one of his biggest supporters.

Weigh has not come out needlessly in public supporting the coach that I've seen. It's been Cadee and Creek.

Weigh previously got bulk minutes because the coaches don't trust others to remember what they're doing. Now he's getting minutes additionally because one SF alternative is injured and another can barely sit down when he's on the bench.

paul, by trying to, I meant that I suspect they've looked at the top team of the last decade and (with Radford's knowledge of it) tried to build their equivalent. You look at the Perth starters and don't doubt that they all know where they're supposed to be.


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paul
Two years ago
08:59 31 Dec 12

Reply #395078

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

There's no doubt they have put in a good fullcourt system to beat Perth, but youre right, they havent had a plan that's worked against other teams. Under Clarke theyre something like 7-4 against Perth and 15-43 against everyone else! Amazing.


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themvpiskb24
Two years ago
08:59 31 Dec 12

Reply #395079

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Not every player is capable of reading the defense effectively to make the right decision. Just ask Phil Jackson.


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Spursfan
Two years ago
11:30 31 Dec 12

Reply #395094

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

#sackmarty


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Anonymous
Two years ago
11:57 31 Dec 12

Reply #395098

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

I cannot beleive some of you still beleive in this guy

Good management will not wait till last game to fire him and his side kick


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Isaac
Two years ago
12:00 31 Dec 12

Reply #395099

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

paul, have had their moments against almost every other team though, so the formula isn't completely hopeless, just doesn't seem to adjust during the game. Big lead against NZ, double figures against Wollongong, etc.


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kobe24
Two years ago
12:32 31 Dec 12

Reply #395105

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

The thing is Marty can not and has not been able to adjust in games. He has all the talent in the world to work with, he has the appearance atleast of a squad that loves and adores him. His pre game and in training methods are second to none, BUT he cant coach in the games. This always becomes most evident come the second when teams start to mix things up and throw different looks at the 36ers. Alot of the other hate Marty stuff id purely out of his lack of people skills and same goes for Radford in a massive way.... but fans can live with uptight pricks, as long as they are coach savvy come game time.

Its time for a massive change, beating Townsville up there wont make an inch of difference. The 6ers have found way to many ways to lose games they shouldnt be.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:36 31 Dec 12

Reply #395107

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

And this thread started so logical. This team has lost games we think it shouldn't but they have so close, when do some players take responsibility. You really think its the coaches fault we hit 2/17 in the last.
You really think its his fault we miss free throws at the end which sets up Kevin Lisch. Now I am not saying some changes should not be looked at but this group making crucial mistakes not just a coach.


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Marcus Camby
Two years ago
12:37 31 Dec 12

Reply #395108

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

@PlayMakerMo....

The following scenario...

"6 points up vs. Perth (Cattalini Cup) late in the 4th and allowing play to continue following a Greg Hire trey -> broken offence -> Lische trey"

...cannot be exclusively blamed on Marty.

The Hire Trey...the man shoots @ 32.8%, you'd take that chance wouldn't you?

The Broken offence = Cadee dribbling INTO a trap where he was tied up by Hire + Perth Poss. arrow.
Surely this was not in Marty's playbook.

The Leeaasch trey...that was just a good shot, and without his primary defender who fouled out un-necessarily. Is Marty to blame for Gibbo's aggressiveness too?

Thankfully you didn't blame anyone for Lisch hitting te three in OT fading away, coming out of his hand wrong with 2 people in his grill.

Overall I have to agree....Let Marty serve out his 3 years dutifully to the Club, the players support him, so should we.

After that lets assess what Marty's vision is for the next 3.





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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:43 31 Dec 12

Reply #395111

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

I can't agree with your vision of leaving Marty at the helm. There won't be a vision for him to ruin in the next 3 years if he is signed


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Spinner
Two years ago
12:48 31 Dec 12

Reply #395113

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

I agree with what Isaac said - the formula isn't hopeless, it's just that Clarke doesn't know how to adjust when the opposition change their defence or offence. He has his plan A and that will work for a while (usually to half time) and then that is it. Four and a half thousand people could see the shift after half time last Friday, but Clarke can't or doesn't want to adjust. Leave players on the court who are not performing, don't correct anything, have a sook to the refs about a non call and watch the pain on the court. Same thing, game after game.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:50 31 Dec 12

Reply #395114

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Umm yes it can. He could have instruced his team to foul and made tgem afoot 2 free throws.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
12:56 31 Dec 12

Reply #395116

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

*Them shoot


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Marcus Camby
Two years ago
13:08 31 Dec 12

Reply #395118

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

@Spinner re : Leave players on the court who are not performing...

Umm...who did Marty have to spare?

Crossy *Gulp*
An injured Petrie.
Daly.

Please lets not bring in 'Had CJ been here, he would have tore it up'.


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Spinner
Two years ago
13:17 31 Dec 12

Reply #395119

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

We will ever know what CJ could have done because the great Marty Clarke's judgement was that he couldn't provide what we needed while sitting on the bench.


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BJF
Two years ago
13:42 31 Dec 12

Reply #395121

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Of course he would never have used the hours and hours of training to assess CJ's ability would he.


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PlaymakerMo
Two years ago
13:45 31 Dec 12

Reply #395122

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

@Marcus Camby - did you read the paragraph before the example I gave?

"This level of trust in his players and general demeanor has produced some frustrating moments for 36er fans as he generally reacts to in-game issues, rather than taking a proactive approach."

I wasn't 'blaming' Marty Clarke for coughing up the lead. All I was eluding to was that he trusts his players possibly more than he should.

The 36ers were up by more earlier in the 4th, but it was only after the lead was blown that he took action by calling a timeout.

It's not directly Marty's fault that we actually lost the lead - he wasn't the one that allowed Hire (a good shooter, despite the % you quoted) an open look, turned the ball over, then allowed Lische an open look - but his approach to in-game issues hasn't been effective.

Surely you'd concede this..?


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PlaymakerMo
Two years ago
14:16 31 Dec 12

Reply #395125

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

@Isaac etc - I spoke with Radford in January 2012 about the philosophy Marty and himself were attempting to employ and you're correct that they have adopted some of the principles of the Wildcats (understandably so with Radford previously assisting under Bevo), but it hasn't translated on the court.

I occasionally see glimpses of one or two 36ers' playing with reckless abandonment, but never all 5 players committing, so it rarely works effectively and never lasts.

Also unlike the Wildcats, Marty hasn't really instilled much variation into the 36ers system on either end.

Perth will throw different full-court/3qtr-court presses at you, straight man-to-man, 2-3 zones, 3-2 zones, and variations within these general defensive structures; 36ers have a standard full-court press and man defence.

Perth have rigid structures to their offences, but no play ever quite eventuates the same as the last. There's so much freedom within their structures that makes them hard to scout and defend; as for the 36ers, well... has anyone seen Marty's Plan B?

On another note: who thinks that Wagstaff or Redhage could have the same impact they currently have, in a traditional system? Two of the most unorthadox players I've ever seen are in a system that exploits their strengths (and the refs) unbelievably well. Damian Martin too, but in a very different way.

Think of Petrie replacing either Wagstaff or Redhage in the Wildcats' system: think it would be a disaster? I think it would appear to the fans as an almost-seamless transition.


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Jack Toft
Two years ago
14:42 31 Dec 12

Reply #395129

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

I always remember the words of a fine coach I once had. He would always finish his advice to us by saying "go out there and create"

Emphasis on the create. He gave us broad plans and counter plans, but left it up to us to implement it hem wisely


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paul
Two years ago
15:18 31 Dec 12

Reply #395135

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

@Isaac, I think it's more about having a system that isnt suited against high intensity defence in second halves, and not being prepared to take risks defensively to get the game at the tempo Adelaide are best at.

Im not convinced it's all about not making adjustments - although that is a factor defensively - in the final quarter against NZ they got a number of good looks they just didnt make.

For me it's as much about not having a system that suits pressure situations.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
19:22 31 Dec 12

Reply #395156

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Marcus is showing the same level of blind loyalty goering gave hitler


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eli1
Two years ago
21:12 31 Dec 12

Reply #395166

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

I hope for Marty and Radfords sake,we lose. Another nail in the coffin and another loss and long flight home for those two. That would be the perfect thanks for losing easy games.


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Marcus Camby
Two years ago
21:45 31 Dec 12

Reply #395184

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Eli1....there are no easy games in this league.

Way to go...hoping your team loses so the coach can have a 'long flight' home.


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:50 31 Dec 12

Reply #395192

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

....there are no easy games in this league


Perth didn't seem to have too much trouble belting the Kings just yesterday and tell that to Townsville, bottom of the ladder and 3-0 against the 36ers this season!


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Anonymous
Two years ago
21:52 31 Dec 12

Reply #395197

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Wish Clarke and Radford werent flying "home".

Worst coaching duo in history of NBL.


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eli1
Two years ago
21:58 31 Dec 12

Reply #395208

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Marcus Camby,

Perhaps read the whole statement i put in above yours. It it squarely aimed at two coaches, not the whole team as you quote.

Obviously you went to school with Tony Abbott, cos he sure doesnt read anything. Or maybe you are family?

If the club arent willing to either stand behind its coaches or sack them, yet sack imports etc, then the support wanes. So, yes.... "way to go". :)


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skud
Two years ago
22:53 31 Dec 12

Reply #395236

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

I wonder if Marcus Camby will disappear when Clarke is finally sacked.


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Gruff
Last year
08:06 1 Jan 13

Reply #395253

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

@skud - I bloody hope so.


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EC
Last year
10:24 1 Jan 13

Reply #395261

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

On what authority would anyone say that Clarke has the respect of his players? After the last home game, Weigh was almost in tears at the after game interview. The frustration clearly taking its toll. The players cannot possibly be enjoying what they have been through the last 6 games. Wouldn't they be looking to the coach to turn things around? What respect could be there if the same things are repeated game after game? Its actually quite interesting now that I think about it. I have been to quite a few after games interviews and the players interviewed talk about trying to get it together for the fans that support them. Clarke has never given any consideration to the fans.


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Marcus Camby
Last year
10:38 1 Jan 13

Reply #395266

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

@Eli1.

You said :

"I hope for Marty and Radfords sake,WE lose. Another nail in the coffin and another loss and long flight home for those two. That would be the perfect thanks for losing easy games."

I said :

"Eli1....there are no easy games in this league.

Way to go...hoping your team loses so the coach can have a 'long flight' home."

Then you wrote :

"Perhaps read the whole statement i put in above yours. It it squarely aimed at two coaches, not the whole team as you quote. "

- Whilst you 'aim' at the Coaches, you clearly want the 6er team and the 6ers organisation as a whole (INCLUDING it members) to suffer to obtain your goal. How was I wrong?

"Obviously you went to school with Tony Abbott, cos he sure doesnt read anything. Or maybe you are family?"

- Haven't you heard? I am apparently related to Marty.


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Very Old
Last year
12:47 1 Jan 13

Reply #395282

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Personally , I'm just over it. I'm prepared to put up with the coaches for the rest of the season.

I'll upgrade my seats once again, and next season Petrie will be fit ( and still signed) Weigh will be a better player, Creek will return and we will have a core of players that will stay and won't leave until at least 2014/5 , we will make finals and the last 2 1/2 years will be far distant.


I'm going out to support the team and the coaches this friday night and I hope that they will win.

If the odds are good I'm put enough on the Crocs that I'll get all my $'s back on the seaon tickets if the 36's lose.

I won't mind lossing the $'s if we win because I'll just up it the next game , Simply because we won't go undefeated for the balance of the season.

Please leave the coaches alone for the rest of the ride, there is simply no point in dumping them now. Its pretty clear that 2013 will not be a happy time for the Clarke family.

I'm relatively certain that Marty expected to be able to build an Oz centred squad this year that would be hugely succesful, and which would have put a real substance behind his ambition to coach the boomers, the timing was clearly perfect for him in that. - But it has not worked out that way.

I think the players are doing the best they can and putting it all out on the court - I will respect that and support them.


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Anonymous
Last year
15:07 1 Jan 13

Reply #395299

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

VO, Weigh is a free agent at the end of the season.


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Anonymous
Last year
15:27 1 Jan 13

Reply #395306

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Doesn't Weigh have an option for 3rd year?


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Anonymous
Last year
15:38 1 Jan 13

Reply #395309

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Pretty sure it was a 1 year deal with an option for a 2nd year (this season).


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Anonymous
Last year
15:58 1 Jan 13

Reply #395313

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

I was told he was signed for "2 more years" which was at the conclusion of his first season. Really like weigh as a player. Could be another one who would benifit from a coaching change.


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Anonymous
Last year
17:04 1 Jan 13

Reply #395329

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

FORMER Perth Wildcats player Stephen Weigh has put pen to paper on a two-year deal with Adelaide.

The versatile 24-year-old, who can play as either a guard or small forward, will link up with his former Australian Institute of Sport coach in Marty Clarke at the 36ers.


http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/2022-world-cup-bid/former-perth-wildcats-swingman-stephen-weigh-signs-with-adelaide-36ers/story-e6frg25u-1226061341721

Weigh, Crosswell & Pero will be FA at the end of this season. No doubt Christopherson will be too and Gibson has an option for next season but can be a FA too.

Cadee & Creek have 1 year each left on their contracts.

Schenscher & Petrie have 1 year plus an option for another year left on their deals.

DJ will have 2 years left on his contract at the end of this season.




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Anonymous
Last year
17:23 1 Jan 13

Reply #395331

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Yeah fair enough. I still think Weigh may have an option for another season though ( aware that particular press release states a 2 year deal ). May have been undisclosed in media. Maybe the option coincides with uncertainty of clarkes future beyond current contact at the time.... Anyway. Be great to keep weigh long term imo.


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Anonymous
Last year
17:31 1 Jan 13

Reply #395335

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14

Love how the guy we need to lose the most is the only guy locked in for two years.

Sigh...


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Midnight Blue
Last year
09:27 3 Jan 13

Reply #395665

re: Marty Clarke Observations & Looking Ahead to 13/14


DEAN KINSMAN FOR NEXT COACHING ROLE IN ADELAIDE

Bring back a local boy that has been away for many years and was an original Sixer himself.
The boy has many qualifications and has been successful in Junior and Senior coaching gigs(Premierships locally and accross borders)
He has International knowledge and experience coupled with a passion to continually be successful.He builds teams through Development of Juniors and gains valuable experienced players if needed for his team mix.
This guy cares about SA basketball and understands supporter interest and enthusiasm while keeping things simple yet challenging for his teams.
As "King Cole" recently said" Basketball should not be complicated play D play O and back your team to be better at executing both over your competitor"
Worth a shot we have tried lesser experienced coaches!!



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