An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 11:32 pm, Thu 23 Oct 2014 | Posts: 520,154 | Last 7 days: 971

Dunk Basketball Uniforms   Plus 2 Clothing is an Australian owned and operated street-wear specialist. Tall clothing designed by tall people.

Tiapans Steve.
Last year

#30732

Community ownership

I have often read on this forum how 36er fans are not happy with the SOS owners and they should do more. Community ownership works and as a Tiapans fan I should know the fact we still have a club and for the first time turned a profit is a testament to the board and all the people that put their money into it.
That said being community owned means that there is no pot of cash to fix things if you get it wrong first up. You are in no position to pay anyone out and replace personal.
Thought it may be an interesting topic as it may be on your table next season.

Report this topic


 

DJ
Last year
07:50 5 Feb 13

Reply #402703

re: Community ownership

Taipans turned a small profit in a successful and somewhat overachieving season.

I would be more interested in this season's figures.


Report this post



Jake
Last year
09:14 5 Feb 13

Reply #402707

re: Community ownership

It would intresting to see if how many people on this site would put there money in when it came to crunch time.


Report this post



Nutwork
Last year
09:35 5 Feb 13

Reply #402708

re: Community ownership

How did the Cairns model work?
Shares? Memberships? Season tickets?


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
10:33 5 Feb 13

Reply #402720

re: Community ownership

Cairns tried to float shares at least 2 times and it never got off the ground.
I am not sure how the communtiy model works in either Cairns of Wollongong.
The owner of the Hawks covers the $1mill bond and I beleive the CCC covers that for them. Any more i am unsure of.


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
10:52 5 Feb 13

Reply #402724

re: Community ownership

I would like to see somesort of membership levels that range in price and increase a small percentage of the team owned by you. obviously still have an executive team ruling over everyone.

$150 membership = 1 Share in the team and silver seats

$200 membership = 1 share in the team and gold seats

$300 membership = 1 share in the team and platinum seats

$50 dollars for a share after that.

Top 5 Shareholders become the executives over the teams decisions etc.

If they sold 3000 memberships at say 200 dollars average it would be $600000 already plus another say 2000 shares on top for $50 would bring it to $700000 already before any 1 game tickets, sponsors or merch or anything was even sold.

Plus who wouldnt want to own a sliver of your team, they could make big decisions go down to all of the owners and every share is worth a vote or something aswell to make it worth while.

Eg. They are thinking of sacking clarke, they release an owners vote and everyone with a share votes and it comes back 53% of shares say sack him. Executive shareholders sack him and move on as the owners have spoken.

Have a Gala event for all the shareholders to attend and all that stuff.



Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
11:12 5 Feb 13

Reply #402730

re: Community ownership

The Sixers barely get 4k to a game. What makes anyone think that around 75% of those people would want to invest more into the club?


Report this post



Ricey
Last year
11:17 5 Feb 13

Reply #402731

re: Community ownership

Anon, that maths is horrible for the team to survive, the season tickets for platinum are already $800, so better off keeping season tickets at current price with a share if that's the way to go. Then person can add an extra share for $100 or so. Also could give multi year deals, so you buy 5 year membership at a discounted price, so 5 years of platinum at a price discounted to say $600 a year.

As for voting, that could create some issues, as you would want to have a proper meeting with all people involved, 3000 people in a room could get a bit out of control when people need to voice their opinions and concerns, plus how many people will keep said meetings confidential?

Community could very well work though, maybe district clubs could get more involved this way also by bigger clubs with the cash bulk buying season passes/shares which could get more kids to the game


Report this post



Camel 31
Last year
11:32 5 Feb 13

Reply #402736

re: Community ownership

From what i know (living in ADL) Cairns and Wollongong were gonna close down , went to community ownership , made grandfinals.
Season tickets don't give ownership . Shares are $5000 each , for 1 vote and the ability to stand for the board . Don't know numbers , probably about 600 x $5000 = $3M . Players are only paid on known incomes , not borrowing money , and a lotta staff volunteers , instead of paying wages .
It's not for profit , but doesn't make a loss either.


Report this post



POP
Last year
11:32 5 Feb 13

Reply #402737

re: Community ownership

Would be really helpfull to find out how the other 'community' models work, because there are significant problems with some of the above.

I have no idea of what it would actually cost to run a team/club, but am very confident $700,000 is way short of the mark. To get some idea of what $700,000 'means' in this context, just divide by 10, which gives $70,000 each for 10 players. I know a squad has more than 10 players, and that players get different salaries, but looking at it this way gives a reference point. And that little exercise doesn't take account of salaries for coaches & player support staff, travel, accommodation, recruiting costs, medical supplies or club/team admin staff. Then there is venue hire.

And that's just the dollar side.

When it comes to 'running' the club/team it simply wouldn't work to have decisions like whether or not to sack the coach made by members/shareholders. It might be feasible to have them vote on the membership of a board to make such decisions, but not the decisions themselves.

They key to success with such a model, apart from adequate funds, would be to have a very good board with the right mix of skills - business, legal, financial, communication, to name some - that is allowed to make the best decisions [including appointment of the coaching team] it can given the information and resources available to it at the time the decision has to be made.

A first-rate CEO [more $!], who would also be selected/appointed by the board, would also be invaluable.

The 'shareholder voting' model sounds nice in theory but is totally impractical in my opinion. The key is to get good people with the right mix of skills and empower/allow them to run the show.


Report this post



FYI
Last year
11:50 5 Feb 13

Reply #402738

re: Community ownership

You need 3 million to run an NBL team at slight profit / break even using the full 1 million salary cap.


Report this post



Camel 31
Last year
11:57 5 Feb 13

Reply #402740

re: Community ownership

That's basically it . Some will buy more than 1 share @ $5000 each , ( 1 vote per share ) , some will go in a syndicate and buy 1 share = 1 vote .


Report this post



Spinner
Last year
12:23 5 Feb 13

Reply #402743

re: Community ownership

How many shares are released?


Report this post



Jack Toft
Last year
12:32 5 Feb 13

Reply #402744

re: Community ownership

I think you would need to budget on close to $4M to run an NBL Club. $3M seems a bit light on. It would be interesting to see where the costs actually are:

Player and Coaches Salaries and on costs ($1M)
Stadium Hire ($0.8M?)
Travel ($0.8M?)
Office Staff ($0.5M?)
Marketing ($0.3M?)
Other Expenses ($0.3M?)

Any community ownership needs some linkage with grass roots basketball IMO.

I would definitely look at how the Wildcats run things as they are setting the standard. Have a look at their website and they have a heap of staff. Now, whether they are full time or volunteers who knows, but they have some good resources

The other mob to look at are the Breakers.

The NBL may need to step in and guide the Sixers on the best model as well. I would also be chatting with the existing clubs under community ownership to learn the good and the bad.

PR is the big missing link (off court) with the Sixers at the moment. The Facebook page is shocking, tweeting is random. YouTube? Celebrity spots on "SA with Cossie" are going begging - imagine Cossie going fishing off Old Noarlunga with Luke or Tom Daly picking strawberries at Hahndorf or something like that. Anything to lift the profile.

What about a puff piece for the Sunday Mail written from one of the wive's perspective?


Report this post



Camel 31
Last year
12:41 5 Feb 13

Reply #402745

re: Community ownership

Cairns model looks pretty good .
also , they do the most community/school visits
1000 a year


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
13:01 5 Feb 13

Reply #402746

re: Community ownership

I think Perth do the most, 1200, but Cairns is right up there.


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
13:17 5 Feb 13

Reply #402748

re: Community ownership

With the community ownership, will the SOS guys still stay involved, would they say own 40-50% of the club? Or will they transfer the whole lot to community and then buy in again if they wish?


Report this post



Curtley
Last year
15:44 5 Feb 13

Reply #402771

re: Community ownership

What if NBL clubs were registered as NGOs and were able to get funding from all over the place including corporates who could claim the money they put into the club back as tax?

The are a handful of NRL clubs that have a not-for-profit charity sector such as South Sydney Rabbitohs who have Souths Cares.


Report this post



Jack Toft
Last year
16:25 5 Feb 13

Reply #402781

re: Community ownership

I think the SOS mentioned something along the lines that community ownership means more access to grants etc.

Could we convert it into a religion? Could Marty Clarke be a messiah?


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
16:51 5 Feb 13

Reply #402790

re: Community ownership

Jack. Players salaries are a million. Coaches are not in the salary cap.

Perth are owned by a billionaire owner hence all the staff.

It's a nice fluff piece but let's secure a venue first otherwise what's the point.


Report this post



blue bagger
Last year
16:57 5 Feb 13

Reply #402792

re: Community ownership

Jack , i don't think Marty is the messiah, he's
just a very naughty boy!!!


Report this post



eli1
Last year
18:09 5 Feb 13

Reply #402806

re: Community ownership

In relation to Clarke and having a basic crowd of 4000, people know the product they are getting to this point. Interestingly enough, if the product became Phil Smyth or Brett Maher as a coach, the product changes and thus people are engaged a little more early on to see what new ideas are brought onboard.

As for shares, I made a donation to the Hawks back when things went sour, and what they offered even though I was a 36er was great. I never used it, but it was 2 seats behind the players, no rubber/ruler/sticker etc. Just the seat and i think it might have been a bbq that i never attended cos I live here.

As for the stadium, I dont think the bank will give it up, not at this stage anyhow unless the price is right. At this point in time, they still get turnover and while it might not be in their interests to undertake a stadium on a long term basis, they might be more susceptible to short term earnings, than asking for 2M/4M directly.

As for community ownership, there would need to be a set limit on shares as with any company trading on the ASX. It might seem good having 1000 shareholders, but too many cooks spoil the broth is the term right? Too much conflict of interest. Thats why a single owner seems good, however!

lastly on day to day sales and seating, the cost with an owner is $30 odd for a gold seat. with community ownership, the price drops as it benefits every shareholder to get a bigger crowd, despite seemingly losing money. last year they had blue zone seating at $10 a game. great idea cos it sold out an area behind the glass.


Report this post



Anonymous
Last year
18:13 5 Feb 13

Reply #402808

re: Community ownership

Too many chefs means it's hard for any to rock the boat, a collective of votes wins out and then the elected board and CEO get to do their thing.


Report this post



Camel 31
Last year
18:30 5 Feb 13

Reply #402815

re: Community ownership

I got the impression of the venue being secure ,
vide the last SOS media release , and of them having shares in the Community Based Ownership Model .
From there , under the owners , is a General manager (office) and a Coach (oncourt)
The Perth Owner , who at 80 years , cain't go on forever .


Report this post



Isaac
Last year
19:17 5 Feb 13

Reply #402818

re: Community ownership

I get the impression that the club is confident that the front-runner for the Dome is a friend of basketball.


Report this post



Loco
Last year
20:33 5 Feb 13

Reply #402830

re: Community ownership

We don't replace anyone now; three years under the Martycliffe abortion has conclusively established that.


Report this post



Loco
Last year
20:36 5 Feb 13

Reply #402831

re: Community ownership

And I think a lot of members of this board would contribute to a community model - they're long time passionate fans. I know I'd throw in whatever I could.


Report this post



Ricey
Last year
17:17 6 Feb 13

Reply #402944

re: Community ownership

300k for marketing is ridiculous. If the 6ers are spending that, they need to get somebody new. Because they are throwing money away there.

Community has a strong place, maybe one person can own a large stake of 50% or so, and rest can be sold off. At this point it's the best idea. Hell, I know I would be willing to chip in and sort out their "marketing"


Report this post



eli1
Last year
19:09 6 Feb 13

Reply #402950

re: Community ownership

maybe we need to ask Gina Rinehart for some help. Even a days wage might do the trick. Now there's someone with experience. However pricier than having Gorj run the team


Report this post



EC
Last year
22:44 6 Feb 13

Reply #402995

re: Community ownership

Gina Rinehart would more likely support her own state, what about the Shahin family?


Report this post





 

Reply to this topic

Name Email

Random name suggestion for anonymous posters: Callisto 61

Title
Rules: You must read the Terms of Use. No spam, no offensive material, no sniping at other clubs, no 'who cares?'-type comments, no naming or bashing under 18 players.
Message

Please proof-read your post before submitting as you will not be able to edit it afterwards.
 


Aussie Basketball Travellers
Goalrilla basketball hoops
Dennis Rodman - Raw and uncensored

Recent Posts

.
.