Years ago

If LeBron hadn't left Cleveland

LeBron is on an amazing streak of high-percentage scoring games. February has been 30 PPG at 69% from the field, 52% from three. Last five games? 31 PPG at 74% FG.

Yet not too much in the way of discussion on here, despite some fantastic numbers.

Would these achievements have drawn more than begrudging acknowledgement had he stayed with Cleveland? Has his move and methods in doing so alienated a significant amount of support he would have otherwise received?

Durant is a bit of a do-no-wrong golden child, from what I can tell (I'm a fan); would LeBron have been in that same category with 90%+ of people?

Topic #30829 | Report this topic

Years ago

I think he would have a lot more respect with people knowing he didn't sell out just for a championship.

Reply #404557 | Report this post

Years ago

The guy is a freak.
In my opinion he is the 3rd best player behind Jordan & Kobe.
But if he can get a few more rings he will become number 2 before the end of his career. His passing, rebounding & defence is unbelievable.
His current streak of 30+ points at over 60% has never been done before in NBA history.

He has already come out & said he regretted the whole "The Decision" TV special & if I remember correctly they were burning his jersey in Cleveland after the show. But I think over time he will win the fans back.

However he will never overtake MJ.
That guys is a god!!!!
They did a special on him the other day on ESPN, saying at 50 years old he would still average double digits in the NBA. I doubt anyone else could do that.

Reply #404559 | Report this post

Years ago

Would they have Kyrie Irving if LeBron had have stayed?

If so, then Cleveland would be a power house and together they would be a force to be reckoned with, but who can predict the future and hindsight, well it's wonderful to dream isn't it...

Reply #404561 | Report this post

Years ago

Will Durant or LeBron ever be considered as Jordan's equal?

Reply #404563 | Report this post

Years ago

Love him or hate him (I'm a big fan!) LeBron is probably the best SF in NBA history and one of the top handful of guys in NBA history period.

The way he left Cleveland has annoyed many, but i personally let the on court stuff do the talking.

Durant may get there, he is younger, but there is still a gap between him and LeBron imo. Could get there, also a big fan, for me the current top 3 players when all healthy are LeBron, Durant, Rose.

Kobe has played 5-10 years longer and 5-10 years older, so currently Kobe has more titles and many would say a more impressive overall record, but compare once both him and LeBron are retired, id back LeBron to overtake Kobe, for me he almost already has considering LeBron didnt basically walk straight into the league and play with a MVP level Shaq.

Had LeBron done that he would have atleast 2-3 titles more and i dont think LeBron would have forced Shaq out of town either so could have been a real dynasty.

Kobe is great but i put an asterix next to the 5 titles, as he wasnt the MVP or best player on his team for the first 3, LeBron was clearly the best player on every team he has played on from the start of his career, so if anything he has done it tougher imo.

For me if you want to work on titles its 2-1 in Kobes favour and LeBron has alot more years left in him to get atleast 1 more, i reckon/hope he will have 3-5 by the time he is done, and as the best player on the team.

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The Situation  
Years ago

Larry Bird has better numbers than Lebron. Bird certainly doesn't have Lebrons athleticism but Bird also never quit on his team two years in a row during the playoffs/Finals.

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Years ago

True, Bird could be argued as top SF, but LeBrons career hasnt finnished so dont know what he will acheive yet, he may or may not surpass Bird, and thats all a matter of preference/opinion anyway.

I unfortunatly wasnt fortunate enough to see much of Birds career, seen a couple of awesome games from him though, so hard for me to compare the guys on what i have seen, seen far more of LeBron, from say the mid 90s when i started watching NBA LeBron is the best SF imo, been plenty of other good ones in that time and heaps before guys like Bird, Dr J, spring to mind, so always a tough debate.

Possibly been done before and a bit off topic, but if you were to do a all decade team, 1 player per possission who would everyones be?

Reply #404577 | Report this post

Years ago

Back on topic, i think LeBron would be liked more by the general fan had he stayed, or atleast not done the tv show and stuff like that, but still always seemed to have plenty of knockers, i think a bit of tall poppy sindrome as he came in with massive hype from high school, was crowned 'the next jordan' before he had even left high school, very few have had that hype/pressure coming in.

Imo that should be more credit to him as he has mostly handled it well and lived fairly well upto expectations on the court. People have rode him tough for most of his career from what i have seen, was called a choker, etc in Cleveland because they lost a few playoffs.

Durant also seems to have a quieter/more humble personality/attitude than LeBron so probably doesnt attract as much heat as a result, probably why he is more liked, even though LeBron imo is the better player.

I think LeBron may be more liked had he stayed, but still would attract plenty of flack, always has, but he may not have had the championship ring if he stayed either, so hard to argue with him moving to the heat imo.

Reply #404578 | Report this post

Years ago

LBJ Career averages : 27 7 7
1 Ring (I do think he will end up with 2-3)

Larry Bird : 24 10 6
3 Rings

I had never looked up their stats before but they are very similar which surprised me.

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The Situation  
Years ago

Bird's shooting %s are better too.

Reply #404588 | Report this post

Years ago

He sort of sold for a title, Wade has fallen so far from what he once was, and Bosh is well... Chris Bosh! Having said that, the tear he is on right now in America's eyes would be so much more approved of if he was doing it in the woe is me capital of Cleveland who havent had a winning sports team for ever.

Having said that, if people can look past all the stupidity surrounding his move, the interview he did, the promise of all the titles in that season launch etc etc and really try to comprehend what he is achieving right now basketball wise from an individual stand point, its off the bloody charts how good he is playing. But for whatever reason leaving the cavs has forced him from that under dog role, and everyone loves the under dog.

Reply #404591 | Report this post

The Situation  
Years ago

If Lebron hadn't OF left Cleveland....

Reply #404606 | Report this post

Years ago

Rav you do realise MJ isn't in NBA shape right? Rodman and Robinson are in better shape than most 30+ year old veterans these days. Also, Wilt was chased up for contracts past his 50th

Reply #404627 | Report this post

Years ago

In Cleveland he wouldn't have these achievements as he'd still be surrounded by sub par teammates. He'd remain a spectacular player on a dud team.

'The Decision' initially caused many media and experts to judge him more harshly.

But as that has faded a little from people memory, a ring, and his great form this year, he's got back some lost respect.

Reply #404629 | Report this post

Years ago

"If Lebron hadn't OF left Cleveland...."

@The Situation He'd still be in...I mean OF Cleveland?

"Yet not too much in the way of discussion on here, despite some fantastic numbers."

@Isaac that's 'cos we're too busy discussing the big issues like tattoos, censorship, private jets and if owning a piece of paper and a pen makes you a scout.

What I'm curious about is whether Jordan is trolling by saying that Bryant is better than James because he has more rings.

Because if he's serious, does he think Robert Horry is better than him because Horry has 7?

When his contract ends do you think James will stay in Miami, go back to Cleveland to win championships with Irving or go somewhere else (like LA)?

Reply #404635 | Report this post

Years ago

Id love to see LBJ go back at the Cavs. Would really create some interest in his career, and how would the Ohio faithful accept his return!?

Surely the Cavs would find a way to cash in on his brilliance this time around. In the scheme of things with the minimal talent they surrounded him with first time around, geez they did get close.

Reply #404647 | Report this post

Years ago

I am with the majority of the view that Lebron sold him self short leaving Cleveland. I think what made Bird, Magic, Jordan so special was they stayed with there teams through thick and thin.

I view Miami championship less special compared to the Pistons championship of 2004. The Miami heat virtually bought a Championship when they signed Leborn and Bosh. Pistons got there championship through good draft picks (Prince), great trades (Wallace and Hamilton) and smart signings (Billups who was hardly a red hot commodity at that point in his career when he left Minnesota).

Reply #404651 | Report this post

Years ago

@Kobe24 The Lebron hate has died down a lot in the last year, even in Cleveland.

I think if he wanted to go back all would be good.

The biggest beef would be between him and the owner, but they both businessman and money talks.

@David Detroit definitely the exception to the rule. Not sure if we'll ever see a team like that win the championship again.

Reply #404656 | Report this post

Years ago

Best player in the league. He's an absoulute freak. I wish he'd stayed with the Cavs though.

Reply #404713 | Report this post

Years ago

I wish I was little bit taller,
I wish I was a baller

Reply #404715 | Report this post

Years ago

Where's the rabbit in the hat?

Reply #404735 | Report this post

Melbourne Boy  
Years ago

If Lebron wins another few titles and plays at this level for 4-6 more years which would earn him alot more MVP's, he has to go down as the greatest... thats if you were following NBA in the era of 2005-2020, if you ask someone who grew up in the 90's, Jordan is the greatest, same as Oscar Robertson or Wilt Chamberlain in their time.

Leigh Matthews is said to be the greatest AFL player to have lived, his theory when asked is that once you retire, for the next 25 years you become better and better, after that period, the people who were around in the era drift away until you are then forgotten about.

Proof that Leigh is right... how does Wilt average 50 and 25 for an entire season and not be the greatest, in his rookie year he had some 40 and 40 games, one game he had 58 and 42, as a rookie! Hell someone called him selfish once so the following season he had the most assists of any player in the league. Blocks weren't being recorded but some say he would regularly have games with 20 blocks.

Statistically no-one can even come close to Wilt, Jordan and Lebron look like role players next to his numbers, yes it was a different era but so are is Jordan and Lebron. So all the kids who were born post 1998 are adults and qualified to make comment who do you think will be the greatest?

Reply #404746 | Report this post

Years ago

LeBron is an absolute freak, I believe the greatest all round player ever. LBJ just does not have that will to win, that "give me the ball" persona in the 4th quarter the other greats all had.

I think people dislike him for leaving his hometown to sell out for a ring. Dan Gilbert (Cavs owner) was throwing $ everywhere to LeBron talent, over paying for Shaq, Antawn Jamison, Mo Williams, Ben Wallace the list goes on. All LeBron needed was to be patient, all you need is a rich owner in the NBA and your a contender.

LeBron burned his hometown, where he was happy to play the hometown hero as long as it made him $ and suited him. He turned his back not on the cavs, but the city of Cleveland. He deserted a city that has had nothing to cheer about for years, The Cavs have always only been average and the NFL team has always stunk. He bolted for Miami who had won an nba championship in 2006, if it had been a team who has not won recently wouldnt be so bad.

The game should always be bigger than any individual, some may call MJ and Kobe selfish on the court but LBJ has always proven to be selfish off the court......fantastic player though.

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Years ago

It's with the bat

Reply #404796 | Report this post

celtic green  
Years ago

Wilt is not considered the greatest cause he was selfish and only cared about himself. All the talent in the world and he did not want it that much. Russell destroyed him; go and read any of the books/autobiography's from that era and none of the players think Wilt was better than Russell. That says it all, the players know who the best is

Reply #404835 | Report this post

Years ago

"for the next 25 years you become better and better, after that period, the people who were around in the era drift away until you are then forgotten about."

@Melbourne Boy Reminds me of the "playing pool while drinking" theory. For the first 2.5 drinks you get better and better but then your skills drift away, until you forget about the entire pool game the next morning.

Reply #404839 | Report this post

Years ago

Celtic Green... Go read/watch anything involving Bill on Wilt and he will tell you that what you wrote is trash. Bill considers Wilt the greatest player ever, and Wilt would still battle with him and one on one always came out on top. He was selfish no more than KG. He just never had a coach tell him to do something else, so Wilt was always the dominating person in any club. When he was finally asked to be more of a passer, he all of a sudden became the assist leader that season for NBA, coincidence?

Reply #405341 | Report this post

Years ago

@Ricey from memory, Wilt came out on top in the majority of games, but NOT in the games that really counted or in the quarters that counted.

When it came to the crunch, stats back up Russell being the better player, both as an individual and as a teammate.

Wilt's ability to willingly contribute in the assist department is a little more complicated than simply saying that he was never asked to do it before, and once he was asked, did so unselfishly. He did it because he had a point to prove, not so much for the betterment of his team.

One thing that is indisputable is that Wilt wrote the better autobiography. If you haven't already, do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of 'Wilt; just like any other 7-foot Black millionaire who lives next door"

Reply #405399 | Report this post


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