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annon
Last year

#30838

Standard of Umpiring locally

Please please please BASA make the effort to go out and watch the umpiring at District games esp at Pasadena and Starplex venues. It brings the standard of play down and leaves a sour taste in everyone's mouth. Am I alone in this view???

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lowrider
Last year
22:50 15 Feb 13

Reply #404737

re: Standard of Umpiring

Would be a good idea except BASA don't make time for such trivialities, they don't have enough staff so put up with it or find another sport. Basketball is going down the gurgler anyhows, if you want your kid if they have any talent to be noticed send them to Sturt, they're looked after their very well by the umpires.


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aristotle
Last year
23:30 15 Feb 13

Reply #404739

re: Standard of Umpiring

nothing like friday night late night threads......

refs have to learn somewhere like the players and coaches.

follow the proper grievance line and give feedback - the better quality this is done the more likely you are to make change.

I know what you mean I had panel refs making simple game understanding calls wrong - i.e. understanding basics....

when everyone else is perfect we can ask the refs to be.


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Anonymous
Last year
23:34 15 Feb 13

Reply #404742

re: Standard of Umpiring

But don't players learn at trainings?


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aristotle
Last year
00:49 16 Feb 13

Reply #404749

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

there are ref education days but no trainings as such.


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Anonymous
Last year
01:01 16 Feb 13

Reply #404750

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Umpires should have some form of training, but for umpires to want to take it more seriously they need a well deserved pay rise. All umpires should be assessed and coached but these things take money, question is where is all the money going?

I feel your basic social basketball stadium only cares about profit, same I assume with district bball. To use an example I have a friend who umpires B Grade division 3 footy and gets paid $130 per game while your average bball ref gets $10-$15 per game. Each game costs $40 (Turramurra, Golden Grove) to $69 per team for Mars. For a game at Turramurra for example stadium gets $80, pays umpires $30 up to $40 max. Why can't some of this profit be used to better train umpires and increase there pay???? Stadiums wonder why they can not get umpires and players then suffer by getting umpires who are not experienced enough and everybody gets mad, and everybody loses.


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Quickie
Last year
06:36 16 Feb 13

Reply #404775

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Good luck those who are Referee coordinators of Gibson and bridgeman only work during office hours,night time they stay home,no chance whatsoever for them to evaluate referees.

Bring on other states commitment to refereeing,they have people who work at night to develope young referees.BASA Friday night door takings are substantial but cannot afford to bring a referee coach to stadium.few managers are former referees nowadays don't have the heart to committ to junior referee.


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cat
Last year
07:54 16 Feb 13

Reply #404781

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

that's rubbish Quickie

BSA have approved and implemented another tier of referee on Friday game night.

He 'rosters' the umpires for the night and monitors their scheduling during the night.

This was introduced with no consultation with Clubs.

The money is most definitely there.

The air of superiority within referee ranks is further perpetuated.


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Jack Toft
Last year
09:54 16 Feb 13

Reply #404793

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

The standard of umpiring varies from stadium to stadium as the umpires experience and backgrounds vary. I don't think umpires are biased per se, it's just what they see as being standard.

Good coaches just need to adjust their game plans to suit.


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Anonymous
Last year
10:44 16 Feb 13

Reply #404807

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Are you a good coach Jack?


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Anonymous
Last year
11:16 16 Feb 13

Reply #404816

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

He is pretty good actually


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cat
Last year
11:30 16 Feb 13

Reply #404821

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

can you please confirm Issac that Jack Toft and the last 2 anon's share the same IP..?


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Jack Toft
Last year
12:10 16 Feb 13

Reply #404825

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Ha! I wish Cat


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Dr J
Last year
14:37 16 Feb 13

Reply #404846

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

I was pleased to see the court supervisor go out to 2 young refs at m'vale friday night. They were struggling a bit with quite a physical game and a bit of pressure from the crowd.
Unfortunately it doesn't happen often enough, especially at an inner suburban stadium just south of the city.
The real problem is the experience of the refs and the paltry pay they get. Something about peanuts and monkeys comes to mind. There is a critical need to get more mature refs on the court - yes in age! BSA. Need to recruit and not just a poster on the notice board or a link on the web site.
And I have done the ref course but poor follow up after. Refing is hard. The ref coaches need to do more to keep refs on the courts. As I have always said to my kid. No refs no game.


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observer
Last year
21:06 16 Feb 13

Reply #404930

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Whether refs are young or old is not the issue. Inconsistency is the issue and can come across as favourtism. If a coach complains they run the risk of being Tech fouled. Arrogancy is not productive - just causes more frustration. Would help if refs actually listen rather than disregard, would be more professional


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Dr J
Last year
22:10 16 Feb 13

Reply #404968

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Age of the refs is definitely an issue. Teenage kids refing a top 2 div 1 game isn't on! And from what I have observed, the coaches that get tech'd get what they deserve. No coach has the right to have the cracks at refs in the way they do. Most are serial offenders.
Would like to see some of the parents tech'd as well.
There is definitely a barrier between refs and coaches as well. The best refs I have seen were at the classics last year.. The refs made the effort to introduce themselves to the coaches before the game, which broke the ice. And the communication through the game was excellent.
Much we an learn here if the ref hierarchy were prepared to learn and pass down to the troops.
Need good refs and those prepared to put their hand up to do it need a lot more support..


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sick of this shit
Last year
23:23 16 Feb 13

Reply #405003

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Same old crap. "referees need to have trainings like players"
"where's all the money going, it should be going to referee development"
"why are teenagers doing 1v2 district games"

Firstly, refs don't have the time for training sessions since they would be refereeing most of the week. Mondays senior div 2, Tuessday youth league, Wednesday, div 3-6 seniors. Thursday panel or srdp meetings, Friday juniors... And you want them to do training as well? Good luck.The "training" comes from game experience. Simple as that.

Second, the money goes into keeping the stadiums running? To pay salaries. Honestly, considering the money that is taken at the for each night from each stadium, I'm surprised that BSA, not BASA, is still afloat. What do you think is happening, you think they are keeping money on the side? -.-

Thirdly, these "teenagers" from what I know, are perfectly capable of doing district. Lord, do you want Filmer, Wieland or Durant coming out to do these games? Comes back to this "training" you want these "teenagers" to do. Where are they going to learn to cope under that pressure, if they aren't exposed to it.

Lastly to the OP, are you serious? Bridgeman and Gibson are constantly out watching games. They both put in immeasurable time and effort, never seems to be appreciated either. Bridgeman was at port and st Clare Friday, and I think Gibson was reffing if you bothered to look at the refs roster

Absolutely sick to death of these posts. People saying these things, but what annoys me the most is these people that come on and say they understand how hard it is and such. You probably have no idea, unless you are reffing at anything below youth league div 1, to get to that point you need to be committed, and it has nothing to do with money, and it shouldn't. Sure it can be a good side bonus, but to get a decent referee you need them to be dedicated because they want to ref. Intrinsic motivation.

Tomatoes gonna tomate...


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Applelover
Last year
07:13 17 Feb 13

Reply #405020

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

The money is a factor, especially for starter refs. Miniball $7-$10 a game and district $12 or so, whereas netball, which is infinitely easier and less running, starts at $20-$25 and quickly gets you $30 a game. Who will work for $7 a game? Hardly anyone.its a contemptibly small amount. Surprised its even legal.


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observer
Last year
17:06 17 Feb 13

Reply #405114

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

If this 'shit ' keeps coming up why not address instead of ignoring. Shaking hands before a game is courteous and and have seen kids shaking hands with refs after a game regardless of outcome. These are simple standards in other states and show respect. Why not give it a try BSA.


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Dr J
Last year
20:19 17 Feb 13

Reply #405158

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

#5003
Just what I expected from a ref.
all we ask is that you recognise and accept that people outside the ref community might actually be intelligent basketball people. But you haven't worked that out yet have you.


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supercoach
Last year
20:42 17 Feb 13

Reply #405161

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

that is the problem, the lack of admittance from the powers that be there is an actually a problem
every night there should be a court supervisor that deals with the bitchy parents and making sure everything runs smoothly and a referee evaluator who just purely talks to refs about their development

i use to ref and saying that my training was refing every night of the week is not training considering i was never told by anyone i was making a wrong call or i need to do this differently
this would happen once every couple of months

this is the frustrations that coaches are having they are seeing refs struggle to umpire games and there is nobody telling them what they are doing wrong and they have nobody to whinge to
i am now a coach and it drives me insane that refs are doing a bad job and i cant talk to them and i cant talk to the court supervisor and i cant "report" them because it goes nowhere fast


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Dr J
Last year
20:52 17 Feb 13

Reply #405164

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Supercoach you are. But they're not listening! I think it's the head in sand syndrome. Oh but we are just talking sh#t and don't understand, don't know anything and aren't very intelligent people - about basketball that is.
#5003 - would really like to see you have the same crack at my new best friend Supercoach the same way you had a go at us others. But then Supercoach does have history and does understand. The silence will be deafening.


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phil
Last year
20:56 17 Feb 13

Reply #405165

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

i doubt the refereeing of the district games is as bad as the refereeing of the social bball games. i once had a ref who was standing in the opposite end under the basket call me for a push in the back foul ( i was under the basket at the other end). the only guy in front of me was the other ref ( ten years old ). this was really common and quite affected my enjoyment of the game.

however..

when all is said and done those referees, no matter how shit they are were it not for them i wouldnt be able to play social basketball at all and would have missed out on so much joy.

even if i reckon i would be better at the job than them im not the one sacrificing my time for others to enjoy something special.

eh, its aggravating but its also hard to complain if your not willing to work to make it better yourself.


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phil
Last year
20:58 17 Feb 13

Reply #405166

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

yeah there is shit all money in basketball, and anytime you have people doing something on-top of their work hours it's going to be hard to find extra time on that for them to do anything like training.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:51 17 Feb 13

Reply #405177

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Dr J, we also ask that you realise there are intelligent people in the referees ranks also, and care about the game as much as you do.

You also seem to have not worked that out.


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Dr J
Last year
22:04 17 Feb 13

Reply #405184

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

#5177
Read my first 2 posts.
Don't come in at the last minute and think I am anti ref. quite the opposite. I want them to get more support and better pay. The leaders off the court need to do more to keep refs wanting to be on the court.


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Anonymous
Last year
09:06 18 Feb 13

Reply #405230

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Yeah, the pay the refs get isn't good enough. If only they got the same as the coaches, managers and players...


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Anonymous
Last year
09:30 18 Feb 13

Reply #405231

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

All you people that want to pay the refs more, would you be happy to pay more per game to play. Id be also be interested to see how much income comes from spectators cos im sure that at most stadiums people just walk in.. If you have to pay more you would whinge about that to.. No one is ever happy


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Bear
Last year
09:43 18 Feb 13

Reply #405236

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Officiating basketball at domestic level is such a subjective position for all concerned.

How can we expect referees to be more consistent and professional, or improve their standards, if we don't respect what they do by giving them the sufficient training, feedback and incentive they require?

'Pay them peanuts and you will get monkeys'.
'Treat them like crap and you get....'.

Having said that, there is always a bad example that brings down the mob...

Last Friday night, for some unexplained reason, an official went for his drink bottle near the half court sideline at half time during a VC qualifying game of VJBL.

Not domestic, I know but wait for this...

He then poured water from his drink bottle over his shoes???

Water was left over about one square foot of the court, half a metre off the playing surface near the centre side line to be exact!

Parents were amazed and voiced their concern that it was dangerous to players as anyone running into it would end up in the seats and that the official needed to towel the water off.

He just ignored us and said it was off the court and of no concern, then walked away!

Somone went to the court supervisor and next thing you know the official spent 5 minutes rubbing his shoes over and over the water to dry it up. WTF???

Sometimes you just get a bad egg!


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NeedYellowblueawayJumpers
Last year
18:35 18 Feb 13

Reply #405357

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

I have seen the same player at 2 different stadiums get a no foul for being pushed over the end court with the ball and at another away game got the foul for being on the bottom of a pack for pushing? The player was the guard with the ball ?
I dont know if that is bias against that Juniors colours ( I wont go into detail but its nothing to do with how good they were -thats def not it ) or is it mistakes


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spectator
Last year
09:37 19 Feb 13

Reply #405435

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Saw 7 charges called in one game on friday night. The same umpired called a great number of charges in various games the weekend before at Whyalla Carnival.


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Anonymous
Last year
10:30 19 Feb 13

Reply #405444

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

umpires in charges had their pays reduced


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what if........
Last year
10:34 19 Feb 13

Reply #405445

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

you mean increased?


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Anonymous
Last year
12:05 22 Feb 13

Reply #405975

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

BASA no more BSA just as useless same crap different logo
Yes Sturts local umpires possibly get an incentive from the club to lean their way, no wait some are just Sturt players umpiring so obvious at times esp one young girl.
UIC's got a pay DECREASE confirmed
BSA don't acknowledge their umpires as they are not employees they are PAID VOLUNTEERS, however some deserve no pay because they don't care about the players, coaches or parents but why should they with the abuse the cope night in night out for mistakes that most umpires make because they don't receive continous training support from BSA

BSA you suck...


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the real supercoach
Last year
13:34 22 Feb 13

Reply #405990

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

umpires in charge that sit around talking to their mate refs and not actually doing anything dont deserve a pay rise!

I have heard of ref's being told to crucify the team of a certain coach if he even looks at them funny.

He asked a question the other week and got tech fouled for it, didnt yell, didnt swear just asked. Then they wonder why he gives them no respect.

It goes both ways.

Heard another ref say if an assistant coach he didnt like even stood up he would tech him, assistant coach stood up while the coach was seated to talk to a player as he is allowed to do and got a tech!


Learn the rules and umpire by them dont make stuff up.

Umpires think they have a whistle and that allows them to do what they like. If someone asks a question answer it, if a foul is committed and you see it, call it, dont say its not my area when it is right in front of you!!

If someone abuses you Tech them


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Anonymous
Last year
13:38 22 Feb 13

Reply #405992

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Yes Supercoach you are correct it's fact that some umpires line up a target player to pick on during games, hate certain coaches and umpire accordingly.. If they just focused on trying to make the best calls they can and ignore the sideline distractions then things would slowly get better, at the same time, PARENTS, coaches and players need to realise the umpires do make mistakes plenty lol and sometimes abusing them does your team, other teams, coaches no favours.


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Anonymous
Last year
13:44 22 Feb 13

Reply #405993

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Problem is yelling at a referee does work.

For every 1 Tech you may receive, you'll intimidate the referee into calling 20-30 calls in your favour.

It's worth the risk.


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Anonymous
Last year
14:41 22 Feb 13

Reply #406002

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Intimidation does work ask the sturt lady coach that complains every single time when her team is down and then by some "miracle" bugger me the game is umpired with that much bias favouring her team they end up winning. Straight to the umpire in charge too, bypassing the game ref's, then weak umpire in charge instructs the game ref's to "look after her team better"


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Anonymous
Last year
02:26 23 Feb 13

Reply #406104

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Umpires get things wrong, they are only human after all, but we do need them.. Well done to those that take it up, and try do it to the very best of your ability, and in great honesty, integrity and fairness. I applaud you. You are there to guide the game in the right direction, rule wise, without bias, and at times abused for it...

However, when they use their power to change the games course, because one team has every little thing picked up for them, some that aren't even there, and the other team is left wondering if they are playing same game, or by the same rules as the very same calls are totally being ignored.. Then my friends we are left wondering why we bother turning up... may as well have stayed home playing Monopoly with some stupid relative that cheats at running the bank, if you want a no win, waste of time situation...lol

With umpiring the people on the side lines can also see the same game, and all the indifferent calls, but have no power or recourse to make it an even playing field when it isnt. All you can do is watch, and cringe. And hope, if your kid is playing, it doesn't get to out of hand, because the rules aren't protecting them, and that is the biggest worry.
Next week will be the same..some well run great games,some not.
Good Luck to all the Teams and umpires in the Finals. As long as they are fair, we can all get something out of them. :)
Sorry, Don't know how to fix it, but had my whinge now...lol


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me.....3
Last year
09:18 25 Feb 13

Reply #406398

re: Standard of Umpiring locally

Good or bad we have no game without them. so suck it up and play or quit and shut up


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