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Anon
Last year

#30879

Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Whispers starting to come out that the Melbourne Tigers have well and truly gone over the salary cap this season and the NBL are investigating.

They must be paying Flynn Ballinger Scott Rush and Goulding a tonne of cash each.

Greer Walker Tomlinson Odigie Burston would all be close to min wage.

Hope it's true and the league ban them from playoffs.

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Triton 95
Last year
15:06 19 Feb 13

Reply #405501

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

So do I, I mean it would be horrible for the league but the Hawks will have a huge chance of making the playoffs if its true.


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Cats82
Last year
15:09 19 Feb 13

Reply #405502

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

When will we find out?


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The Situation
Last year
15:15 19 Feb 13

Reply #405506

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Anstey has already tweeted the rumours are false and they they are under, and how disappointed he is in the person who broke the "rumour."


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Mystro
Last year
15:16 19 Feb 13

Reply #405507

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

it hasn't helped much


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Muzz Buzz
Last year
15:23 19 Feb 13

Reply #405511

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Pretty unlikely that a coach will admit his team is over the cap. Melbourne Storm's coach didnt know his teams were either. AFL and NRL coaches dont seem to know their players may or may not have been using PED's.


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Moses Malone
Last year
15:23 19 Feb 13

Reply #405512

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Not a chance of being over. Wishful thinking from those losing a grip on the play-offs I imagive


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Isaac
Last year
15:44 19 Feb 13

Reply #405519

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

If they're over, wouldn't they be getting pretty low value for money?

If the scrubs averaged $50k each, that's still only $250k. $750k left which makes for an average of $150k for each of Rush (end of a multi-year deal and I'm sure he's overpaid, but that much?!), Flynn (sure, probably more), Ballinger (probably not on more than that after Adelaide deal), Goulding (would've guessed $120k tops?) and Scott (hard to tell with most imports).

So to say they're "well over"? Unless it's all Flynn, which is quite possible, ouch.


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Anon
Last year
15:56 19 Feb 13

Reply #405526

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Isacc, I'm quoting an NBL club official and the word "WELL OVER" was emphasised.


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Anonymous
Last year
16:13 19 Feb 13

Reply #405529

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

I've always wondered why Flynn was playing here.

And please don't give me that "to improve his game" crap.


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Anonymous
Last year
16:31 19 Feb 13

Reply #405534

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Anon

you have noooo idea .


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Anonymous
Last year
16:34 19 Feb 13

Reply #405536

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

'Well over' is 2 words for the record.


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Anonymous
Last year
16:40 19 Feb 13

Reply #405539

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

@#405529

Johnny Flynn is playing here because at this point in time, this is about the level of play he belongs.

He is without a doubt the poorest defender amongst point guards in the NBL and at best is a shakey shooter.

Got ball handling, passing skills and an sbility to get to the rim....but some serious flaws.


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Muzz Buzz
Last year
16:46 19 Feb 13

Reply #405540

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

^^
it doesnt seem that his talent is the issue that is being questioned.
Last year he earnt 3.4 million dollars
Market forces would suggest that he has taken one monster pay cut to be in the NBL- or perhaps he hasnt.


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Cats82
Last year
16:49 19 Feb 13

Reply #405542

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Tigers are realy only team that can trouble the cats or breakers. If the hawks, kings or townsvile get in then it will be a walk in the park 4 the cats and nz! If there over thats dissapointing!! U would think perth or nz will be over at least there in the top 2. Do players get paid 3rd party? Or would that be included in the cap?


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Anonymous
Last year
16:59 19 Feb 13

Reply #405545

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation


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Marcus Camby
Last year
17:12 19 Feb 13

Reply #405547

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Looking at the Tigers logo, I would say this is a team with a tight budget.

As a betting man I'd doubt they are over the cap, but if a league official says he has proof then thats another matter.


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Jack Toft
Last year
17:35 19 Feb 13

Reply #405549

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Oh dear, who will know for sure. If true it would be good if the premiership points were taken away, but some teams are working hard for the wooden spoon.


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Isaac
Last year
17:44 19 Feb 13

Reply #405550

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

"NBL club official" - as in staff member of a rival club?


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Anonymous
Last year
17:49 19 Feb 13

Reply #405551

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Melbourne failing and lifting the 36ers off the bottom of the ladder is all part of Marty and the rats 3 year plan! I knew they had some idea of what they were doing.


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LETS GO KINGS!!
Last year
18:54 19 Feb 13

Reply #405560

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

if it turns out to be true, will they get disqualified for the playoffs?


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eli1
Last year
18:59 19 Feb 13

Reply #405562

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Not surprised, and Johnny Flynn cant be free?


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Anonymous
Last year
19:13 19 Feb 13

Reply #405563

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Staff members of other clubs have told me for the last two years that NZ are over the salary cap, but nothing has happened from the NBL even though it is common knowledge in the league.. Therefore I am sure that even if this is true nothing will happen..


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KingJames
Last year
20:50 19 Feb 13

Reply #405575

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

I didn't think this sounded right either but then I thought why would they go for a Cheap import in Braswell if they had alot left to spend?


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Anonymous
Last year
20:54 19 Feb 13

Reply #405577

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

How can the NBL prove anything? They can't.
Maybe the ATO can?


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VP
Last year
20:57 19 Feb 13

Reply #405579

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

No NZ are definitely under the Salary Cap - in fact they only spend 81.7% of the salary cap - they are paid in NZ dollars - which is 1.223 times $NZ to the $AUS.

I'm not sure how the NBL enforces a salary cap for a team paid in another country on a different exchange rate when the rate changes throughout the year.


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Anonymous
Last year
21:16 19 Feb 13

Reply #405582

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

I'd be surprised if the Tigers were. Flynn would be the only expensive player.
Wildcats and Breakers would be near the salary cap.


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Melbourne Boy
Last year
22:04 19 Feb 13

Reply #405588

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

VP, Basketball Australia and the NBL probably just read your post and thought "Oh F##k, why didn't we think of that?"


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PlaymakerMo
Last year
22:20 19 Feb 13

Reply #405590

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

@KingJames:

"I didn't think this sounded right either but then I thought why would they go for a Cheap import in Braswell if they had alot left to spend?"

Good point.

The NBL wouldn't fine the Tigers much (if any), so hopefully they are disqualified from playoffs this season and next if the allegations are true.


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MACDUB
Last year
23:08 19 Feb 13

Reply #405593

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

VP, That's a good point. To add to that:

NZ Average income is about $24k NZD a year. About $487 gross a week.

The average ANBL salary for a Breaker would be around the $120k NZD mark (10 x 120 = 1.2m ), with some earning less and more.

So that means the average salary for a Breaker is 5 times what the average Kiwi gets.

Point being, Breaker players have a pretty damn good standard of living.
If people can get by on the average salary, you can see how the Breaker boys are living with wages much higher than that.

Without knowing much about AU salaries, I would say the discrepancy between average annual overall salary and average ANBL salary would be much higher in New Zealand.


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Anonymous
Last year
00:01 20 Feb 13

Reply #405598

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

I'm on $150K NZD and work 40 hours per week...


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Mystro
Last year
04:42 20 Feb 13

Reply #405602

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Breakers players also get paid to play NZBL but as the back 2 back champions their books get looked at first by the league


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lukn4atitle
Last year
05:17 20 Feb 13

Reply #405604

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Don't RUSH into a conclusion just yet!


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The Situation
Last year
08:28 20 Feb 13

Reply #405612

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Having the league look over any teams books doesn't exactly instill any confidence.


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Cats82
Last year
08:33 20 Feb 13

Reply #405613

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Allwayz sus nz? No way ppl like abercrombe n vukona will play 4 peanuts add 2 imports! ???


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Triton 95
Last year
10:14 20 Feb 13

Reply #405627

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

I agree NZ must be close to the cap every year, Im not saying their over it but it wouldn't surprise me if they were paying their players extra. I do like their competitive game style and they add much needed quality to the league, I think NZ should enter another team and that way they can spread the NZ players over 2 teams. I still think both teams would be competitive. As far as Flynn's asking price, I can't see it being to high, he still can't shoot despite what the so called internet nbl experts think.


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Statman
Last year
11:09 20 Feb 13

Reply #405632

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Interesting point MACDUB. If the average Kiwi gets only 25k a year and can happily live with that pay packet then the a basketball player earning 100k is going to have a pretty good lifestyle indeed.

If we go simply on multiples of the average wage then in Qld the average wage for Q1 2012 was 69k, thats about 2.8 times more than in NZ. So the lifestyle someone like Will Hudson Earning 100k NZD can afford probbaly equates to him earning upwards of 250k AUD over here. And remember the Breakers have about 1.2million in NZD to pay out as their salary cap. With this taken into account and their ability to keep local players is not hard to see how they can 'afford' such seemingly stacked teams

That being said with regards to the Tigers the number Ive heard thrown around that they are paying Flynn is flat out obscene, I think however its more of him b eing paid a standard ammount as his basketball contract and a hell of a lot more via other (third party) means


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Anonymous
Last year
11:11 20 Feb 13

Reply #405633

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Honestly don't know why they don't stick with one or the other of the points or salary cap. Having them together is just mad, especially when their ability to police the salary cap seems negligible.


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The Situation
Last year
11:17 20 Feb 13

Reply #405634

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Of course the NZ players are living comfortably when they don't have to pay for any groceries.


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Statman
Last year
11:28 20 Feb 13

Reply #405635

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Ha - nice point, and its things like that that IMO make the points cap so important. No matter how well you try and police actual earnings there will always be ways to get around it if you really want to.

I know in years gone by soccer players have been 'looked after' when purchasing land from parties related to their club. On the coast Blaze players used to spend an amazing ammount of time at certain restaurants who sponsored the club. Im sure every club has a few perks here and there for players that may not be 100% to the letter of the law.


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The Situation
Last year
11:38 20 Feb 13

Reply #405636

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

I found it hysterical that Anstey spoke out against the points cap earlier this year. McPeake's home & bathroom renovation business is part of the reason the points cap is needed (and I have heard that directly from a former Tigers player.)


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Anonymous
Last year
11:57 20 Feb 13

Reply #405638

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

I was surprised when Melbourne came up in this discussion - maybe they're over, maybe they're not... but I still can't figure out how Perth would be under the cap with the team they are rolling out...


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Anonymous
Last year
11:57 20 Feb 13

Reply #405639

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

I was surprised when Melbourne came up in this discussion - maybe they're over, maybe they're not... but I still can't figure out how Perth would be under the cap with the team they are rolling out...


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The voice of Reason
Last year
12:14 20 Feb 13

Reply #405643

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Keep throwing mud boys soon some will stick

The reason these players dont earn over the salary cap as they are not good enough

Ryhs Carter even went O/sea as is earning more money

Hence the talent drain from Australia


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Anonymous
Last year
12:27 20 Feb 13

Reply #405649

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

@Anon#639

Cats probably benefit from being able to offer an average crowd of 11,000 and perennial post-season threats. Players like playing in front of big crowds, particularly of their own supporters, and they like being where they have a shot at glory.

Both of these factors probably lowers their asking price from what they would want to play at clubs who are further off the pace/have small support bases.

There are inherent attractions to playing for some teams that stretch the salary cap dollar further.


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The Situation
Last year
13:06 20 Feb 13

Reply #405661

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Yeah, Hire, Trueman, Tovey and Bartlett would be commanding top dollar....


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Peter
Last year
13:14 20 Feb 13

Reply #405662

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Based on the same theory used above for NZ players being able to afford a comfortable lifestyle due to low average wages in NZ, Perth would have to overcome the opposite.

Looking from afar, I would have thought WA average wages are reasonably high given the influence of mining.

This either means that Perth players are getting paid more than advertised (to maintain living standards) or there are other factors (general lifestyle, crowd, stadium, club culture etc) making them willing to play for far less relative wages. If the latter is correct, then Perth are perhaps even further infront of the league as a club than many think.


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paul
Last year
13:32 20 Feb 13

Reply #405665

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

"The reason these players dont earn over the salary cap as they are not good enough"

Very simplistic argument! Market forces have as much to do with wages as talent, not to mention which passport you own.


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The Situation
Last year
13:38 20 Feb 13

Reply #405667

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Lets not forget, that Perth has three guys who you would call stars. Martin could also be considered that, but he also excels under the system he is in. The other players are all also a by-product of the system so its a bit of false reasoning to claim they were top line players first that would be commanding top dollar when they signed contracts.


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FYI
Last year
13:51 20 Feb 13

Reply #405668

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Perth have Esprit de Corp which all players dont want to give up.
Most have been offered much better deals to move but have knocked them back to stay united.


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anon
Last year
16:25 20 Feb 13

Reply #405695

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

The sad part of this is that Adelaide have spent the cap for a last placed team. They are the team with over paid players.


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clarky
Last year
16:40 20 Feb 13

Reply #405698

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

I would be interested to know if the NBL (or any clubs) offer incentives to players for things like winning playoff games/series, oor championships.

The NBA recently had bonuses for participants in the All-Star game (I think it was $25,000 for players on the losing team, $50,000 for winning team), and it got me thinking about bonuses being offered to NBL players as incentives for success.

If owners/clubs/the league does offer these kind of bonuses (and they are not included in the salary cap), then I can understand why players would take less money to play at a club which is consistently making the playoffs and playing for a title.


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Mystro
Last year
16:57 20 Feb 13

Reply #405700

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

NZ retain players because they get treated well by the club from the front office to the owners and they get treated well by the media and public.
They are attract local players who want to live close to family and friends as opposed to living in Australia playing for an Australian franchise for more money.
They can also play NZBL in the offseason to boost their earnings.


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maxcet
Last year
18:08 20 Feb 13

Reply #405707

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Flynn was never originally going to play out the season. It was a similar recruitment idea to Mills last season.


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Anonymous
Last year
18:11 20 Feb 13

Reply #405709

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Will be interested to see what happens to the united Perth family once Beveridge leaves.


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The Situation
Last year
18:44 20 Feb 13

Reply #405714

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Shawn Dennis will take over and it will be business as usual.


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Isaac
Last year
19:35 20 Feb 13

Reply #405721

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Yes, clubs offer finals bonuses and potentially other things like if their points rating increases or if they receive an NBL accolade, etc.

In the 2002 championship year, Maher noticed that the rookies didn't have finals bonuses in their contracts, so he bought them each a $500ish TV as a gift.

Nick Marvin (I think it was) has joked about betting on his team so that if they win the championship, he can put the winnings towards their finals bonuses. Bit like Success Insurance.


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PlaymakerMo
Last year
22:52 20 Feb 13

Reply #405733

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

@clarky - NBA bonuses for the All-Star game isn't that new, and most receive bonuses through endorsement deals as well. They're also payed more the farther they advance in the postseason.


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XY
Last year
22:58 20 Feb 13

Reply #405734

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

If Melbourne have spent over the cap, they have seriously wasted their money. I doubt it. Sounds like a beat up.


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Anonymous
Last year
23:36 20 Feb 13

Reply #405736

re: Tigers WELL over Salary cap.

Although if you look at the A-League with the sanctioned extra-cap spending, clubs like Sydney FC spending almost double the cap to end up with a rabble, Glory spending a cool $700k in extra marquee funds and ended up dead last before last weekend.

Combine great players under Chris "Wouldn't know discipline if a dominatrix branded the word into his backside" Anstey and you could blow quite an opportunity.


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