Isaac
Years ago

Initial NBL Player Points Rankings released

ADAM GIBSON 10
JAMAR WILSON 10
JONNY FLYNN 10
SETH SCOTT 10
CEDRIC JACKSON 10
THOMAS ABERCROMBIE 10
DAMIAN MARTIN 10
KEVIN LISCH 10
MATTHEW KNIGHT 10
MIKE DUNIGAN 10
SHAWN REDHAGE 10
BEN MADGEN 10
CORIN HENRY 10
GARY ERVIN 10
LUKE NEVILL 10
ADRIS DELEON 10
LANCE HURDLE 10

DANIEL JOHNSON 9
LUKE SCHENSCHER 9
CAMERON TRAGARDH 9
SHANE EDWARDS 9
CHRIS GOULDING 9
KEVIN BRASWELL 9
ALEX PLEDGER 9
WILL HUDSON 9
MIKA VUKONA 9
JESSE WAGSTAFF 9
DARNELL LAZARE 9
IAN CROSSWHITE 9
PETER CRAWFORD 9
LARRY DAVIDSON 9
MALCOLM GRANT 9
OSCAR FORMAN 9

ANTHONY PETRIE 8
ALEX LOUGHTON 8
ADAM BALLINGER 8
DARYL CORLETTO 8
JAMES HARVEY 8
JACOB HOLMES 8
RHYS MARTIN 8

CJ MASSINGALE 7
STEPHEN WEIGH 7
CAMERON GLIDDON 7
LIAM RUSH 7
LUCAS WALKER 7
MATTHEW BURSTON 7
CJ BRUTON 7
COREY WEBSTER 7
GREG HIRE 7
RHYS CARTER 7
AARON BRUCE 7
TOM GARLEPP 7
MICHAEL CEDAR 7
RUSSELL HINDER 7
TODD BLANCHFIELD 7
DAVID GRUBER 7
TIM COENRAAD 7

JASON CADEE 6
MITCHELL CREEK 6
SCOTT CHRISTOPHERSON 6
AARON GRABAU 6
BRAD HILL 6
TOM GREER 6
LEON HENRY 6
BRAD ROBBINS 6
CAMERON TOVEY 6
EVERARD BARTLETT 6
JEREMIAH TRUEMAN 6

CLINT STEINDL 5
DUSTY RYCHART 5
BENNIE LEWIS 5
GRAEME DANN 5
LUKE MARTIN 5
BEN ALLEN 5
MITCH NORTON 5
MIRKO DERIC 5
TYSON DEMOS 5

KERRY WILLIAMS 4
NATE TOMLINSON 4
KEVIN WHITE 4
CHRIS CEDAR 4
ARYN MACMILLAN 4

PERO VASILJEVIC 3
TOM DALY 3
SHAUN BRUCE 3
DANIEL JOYCE 3

DANIEL JACKSON 2
BRENDAN TEYS 1

JAN WARBOUT D
JAMES MITCHELL D
MATT ANDRONICOS D
ALISTER MCDONALD D
OWEN ODIGIE D
MORGAN NATANAHIRA D
REUBEN TERANGI D
TAI WEBSTER D
JOSH BLOXHAM D
BEN PURSER D
GAVIN FIELD D
KYLE ARMOUR D
MICHAEL VIGOR D
TRIAN ILIADIS D
JARRED WEEKS D
CALLUM JENKINS D
ZAC DELANY D
ALEX BEAGLEY D


Thoughts? Here are my tweaks in parentheses:

CORIN HENRY 10 (9)
LANCE HURDLE 10 (9)
DANIEL JOHNSON 9 (surprised not a 10)
SHANE EDWARDS 9 (8)
KEVIN BRASWELL 9 (8)
MALCOLM GRANT 9 (7 or 8)
JAMES HARVEY 8 (7)
JACOB HOLMES 8 (7)
COREY WEBSTER 7 (bit rough, but had a good year)
TOM GARLEPP 7 (6)
MICHAEL CEDAR 7 (5)
TODD BLANCHFIELD 7 (good season; 8?)
SCOTT CHRISTOPHERSON 6 (5)
AARON GRABAU 6 (7)
LEON HENRY 6 (4)
GRAEME DANN 5 (4)
LUKE MARTIN 5 (3 after his season)
MIRKO DERIC 5 (4 or 3)

Topic #31411 | Report this topic


Bizzy  
Years ago

CJ a 7? Based upon what?

Reply #414011 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Wildcats next year

Dunigan 10
Redage 10
Worthington 10
Ervin 10
Hire 7

Waghstaff 9
Bruton 7
Lewis 5
Perser 1
Ellise rookie

Pinder Dev

Reply #414019 | Report this post


Cats82  
Years ago

How they work it out i have no idea, based on the two gf teams how can they be an 87 point team? Few players should be tens not eights, rigged.

Reply #414025 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Aren't imports an automatic 10 anymore?

Reply #414028 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

This spells the end for the current wildcats roster with 81pts for next season,(75 if you take off tovey) think 6 is a bit high for trueman. The Breakers are at 74pts even without Boucher retiring, this will be good for other teams to catch up

Reply #414031 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

wow quite a few there id say are too high,

2 that stand out is CJ and SC,

CJ should be a 5 at max given the amount of opportunity he got, sure he is probably a better player than that, but being lower will increase his chances of getting another shot.

SC should be a 1 or atleast less than Daly imo.

Imo the only 10s should be the all NBL 1st team from the last year or 2, new imports should be 8s, even 6s if they have played say SEABL before and the bulk of the league should fall in the middle somewhere between 3-7, with only a hand full of 8s and 9s.

Reply #414039 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

A simple way is all nbl 1st team are 10, 2nd team 9, 3rd team 8, basically the rest fall between 3 and 7, maybe 10th/11th men in some cases would be 1s or 2s.

Would be much fairer imo.

Reply #414040 | Report this post


Phobos 92  
Years ago

If I'm a GM

Yes please;

Blanchfield 7
Rhys Martin 8
Gruber 7
Weigh 7
Mitch Creek 6
Clint Steindl 5

No Thanks

Damian Martin 10
Hurdle 10
DJ 9
Schen 9
Trig 9
PC 9
Braswell 9
Ben Allen (anything over D)
Kevin White 4


Reply #414041 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Who is mirko djeric playing for?

Reply #414043 | Report this post


hoopie  
Years ago

Take a point off each of Gibson, Braswell, and all the Tigers roster below the imports.

Reply #414046 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Aren't imports an automatic 10 anymore?
They are for their first season. Then they are re-rated.
How they work it out i have no idea, based on the two gf teams how can they be an 87 point team? Few players should be tens not eights, rigged.
It's partly statistical. Also apparently involves their previous season too.

These are also only "initial" points values (also called External) without things like contracts and so on considered. At some point, the Internal rankings will be released. The internal points values are what apply to the points cap.

Players can also appeal their ratings so we may see a number of them change.

e.g., if Abercrombie is still a 1, that sways NZ drastically.

Perth could have a few contracted under old ratings, lose Robbins and Tovey, pick up a rookie and have a good start.

Reply #414052 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hurdle a 10, yeah okay. Gibson should be sub-10 after the season he had too.

Reply #414062 | Report this post


davo  
Years ago

gibbo will be a tiger this year

Reply #414103 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I agree Gibson and wortho will be tigers and they will go with 1 import

Reply #414106 | Report this post


watto  
Years ago

Trueman a 6 ????? Makes me laugh!

Daniel Johnson should be a 10. Braswell an 8 and the list goes on. ...

How are clubs supposed to keep a team together. Players are forced out and have to go play somewhere thats not their preference. Not much job security for the unfortunate ones.

Not many 1's , 2's , 3's and 4's. They are rating players way too high!
10 point players should be new imports and all star calibre players only.

Reply #414118 | Report this post


watto  
Years ago

Isaac, Abercrombie's contract expired at the end of this season so does that mean he has only been a 1 so far and he will be a 10 from next season? I heard Pledger is currently only a 3 because he is still on his existing contract.

I think its unfair that a players points rating is dependent on their contract. It should be a single rating based on statistics, experience and form from the previous season.

Reply #414122 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

watto, I don't know. Wait and see the final rankings.

Multi-year contracts (and the internal/external rankings) are what allow teams to have some continuity and players to have some job security. More so than rankings just based on stats, anyway.

Reply #414123 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

Everard Bartlett is a 6?

The man who went 0/9 in key games?

Are you kidding me?

This points cap stuff can be pretty jacked up.

Reply #414127 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

How is Michael Cedar a 7?

This is why I hate the points system. Here is a guy who in all likelihood won't be re-signed by his club after 2-3 poor seasons in a row, and now he has to hit the free agent market with a 7 on his head when he is a 9th-10th man on most NBL teams. This is where it restricts guys' terms of trade. I don't buy any of the baloney about David Barlow and international guys being kept out of the league by this system, because it's complete crap, but for a guy like Mick Cedar it can be crippling.

Reply #414131 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

1. They take into account the whole season and potentially the one before.
2. He can appeal the rating.

Reply #414133 | Report this post


Mystro  
Years ago

Rhys Martins an 8 and yet Will Hudsons a 9 lmao

Reply #414134 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Yeah but even as a 6 he is overrated. I'd peg him as a 5 at best, and I'd doubt they'd re-rate him down two rungs. Call me a libertarian, but there's just something about the thought of some bonehead in the league office arbitrarily determining a player's value instead of the free market doing it that doesn't sit right with me.

You also create the absurd situation of clubs or players arguing that they are not as good as the league thinks they are.

And if Ben Allen is rated as a 5, and not a negative integer, someone is implying he is providing some sort of a quantifiable contribution to his team, which doesn't sit right with me either...

Reply #414137 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

9-10 should be for star players

5-8 mid range

less than 5 for the rest of the bench players

I'd like to see a long service points reduction
for any player who's played in the nbl for 10 seasons or more reduced automaticly to a 2 pt

Reply #414138 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

arbitrarily determining
It's stats based.

Hudson had 8 and 5 in 25 MPG at 50+%.. Martin had 12/3/3 in about 30 MPG. Last season may also come in to play (Hudson's stats were higher last season). Hudson is often talked up as underrated too.

Seem to have a good number of complaints from Breakers fans and Wildcats fans, which isn't a bad thing. These two teams should feel pressure to add much more than rookies to their squads. e.g., assuming there is a lower internal rating for Pledger or Abercrombie, and hopefully Webster, then the Breakers bring in one of the promising DPs for Boucher and they're good.

For Perth, the list is:
BRAD ROBBINS 6
CAMERON TOVEY 6
DAMIAN MARTIN 10
EVERARD BARTLETT 6
GREG HIRE 7
JEREMIAH TRUEMAN 6
JESSE WAGSTAFF 9
KEVIN LISCH 10
MATTHEW KNIGHT 10
MIKE DUNIGAN 10
RHYS CARTER 7
SHAWN REDHAGE 10
BEN PURSER Dev
GAVIN FIELD Dev
KYLE ARMOUR Dev
MICHAEL VIGOR Dev
TRIAN ILIADIS Dev
That's 81. Martin, Wagstaff and Bartlett are under contract, so that should save a few points - one each on the first two and two on the third. No way will Trueman at 6 not manage to get re-rated - that is brutal and based on low MPG, surely. He was a 2 last season.

Reply #414142 | Report this post


kdb  
Years ago

Quick question. What is the total number of points allocated across the entire league?

Theory: With a set number of teams (8) with a cap (not sure what it is) that means that the total points allocated must be the same each year and divided evenly based on performance across the players. Otherwise if the total points increases then players will have to leave the league to accommodate growing developmental players.

Is this correct?? If so, this system has to be flawed as it does exactly what Barlow was talking about and squeeze players out of the league.

Example: Wilkinson getting sacked to accommodate Pledgers growing numbers. Abercrombie going from 1 to a 10 meaning 9 points worth of players have to be sacked from Breakers....

If the total player points increases then more skilled (higher point value) players are going to be asked to leave in order to accommodate cheaper development players.... This is why the league skill level is at an all time low instead of attracting better players.

Is my logic right???

Reply #414174 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Long service points means that Corletto could still be a 2 point player and the list goes on.

Reply #414177 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Putting long-serving players at a lower rating makes sense, but they need to be at one club for a period of time, and dropping them to a 2 creates a whole new set of problems (well, not "new" but older problems get re-visited).

Reply #414178 | Report this post


Pikachu  
Years ago

Cap is still 70 right?
Big shuffling going on in perth
Is the nbl ready for another Breakers Triumph?

Reply #414182 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

Presumably they are, as evidenced by the "too low" ratings for Vukona, Bruton and Corletto.

Reply #414187 | Report this post


Pikachu  
Years ago

Vukona was a 9 when he left the breakers
He's a 9 now, not too low , he's a game changer!
Wagstaff is awesome , scrappy and effective
Corletto and CJ are clutch!

Great ratings for all the players who go hard week in week out , not so for some that are half arse in this league.
Expecting a better season from the 36ers

Reply #414194 | Report this post


The Situation  
Years ago

"Vukona was a 9 when he left the breakers
He's a 9 now, not too low , he's a game changer!
Wagstaff is awesome , scrappy and effective
Corletto and CJ are clutch!"

Yeah, thats my point. Vukona is constantly touted as the premier power forward in the comp but is only a 9, same as Wagstaff. Who would you prefer? And if Damian Martin is a 10, Vukona should be as well.

Corletto and CJ are great players, and also an 8 and a 7, respectively. Way too low. Is Hire anywhere near as good as CJ?

Reply #414197 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hire's better than CJ.

Reply #414206 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I dont think many are too low, id say its the other guys who are too high, imo there are way to many 8,9,10s, should only be around 5-10 of each, i reckon you could drop most players points by around 1-2, doesent work for everyone, but there are heaps imo are too high.

Using Perth as an example

there current ratings are

BRAD ROBBINS 6
CAMERON TOVEY 6
DAMIAN MARTIN 10
EVERARD BARTLETT 6
GREG HIRE 7
JEREMIAH TRUEMAN 6
JESSE WAGSTAFF 9
KEVIN LISCH 10
MATTHEW KNIGHT 10
MIKE DUNIGAN 10
RHYS CARTER 7
SHAWN REDHAGE 10
BEN PURSER Dev
GAVIN FIELD Dev
KYLE ARMOUR Dev
MICHAEL VIGOR Dev
TRIAN ILIADIS Dev

I'd rate them more as

BRAD ROBBINS 4
CAMERON TOVEY 5
DAMIAN MARTIN 8
EVERARD BARTLETT 4
GREG HIRE 6
JEREMIAH TRUEMAN 4
JESSE WAGSTAFF 7
KEVIN LISCH 10
MATTHEW KNIGHT 9
MIKE DUNIGAN 9
RHYS CARTER 5
SHAWN REDHAGE 9

Only league 1st team/mvp level guys should be 10s imo for me only Lisch and maybe Dunnigan were that, but even then id put Dunnigan as a 9. For me Redhage, Martin, Knight are 8s or 9s, not quite MVP level but still very good.

Imo you could even argue the only 10 in the NBL should be Cedric Jackson, he was clearly the best player in the league, ranking others the same as him whilst clearly being a level down is a bit harsh imo. No one outside the NBL 1st team should be a 10. How are Ced Jackson and Lance Hurdle both rated the same as 10s, Hurdle should be a 7 or 8 imo, was good/solid but no where near Cedric, that is the biggest flaw of haing so many 9s and 10s.

BRAD ROBBINS 6
CAMERON TOVEY 6
DAMIAN MARTIN 10
EVERARD BARTLETT 6
GREG HIRE 7
JEREMIAH TRUEMAN 6
JESSE WAGSTAFF 9
KEVIN LISCH 10
MATTHEW KNIGHT 10
MIKE DUNIGAN 10
RHYS CARTER 7
SHAWN REDHAGE 10

If you take out Robbins, Dunnigan and Tovey using my rankings that would total 62 with 9 players so would have 8 points to essentially replace Tovey with.

So Wildcats could go with my fairer rankings

Martin (8)/Carter (5)
Lisch (10)/Bartlett (4)
?? (upto 8)/Hire (6)
Redhage (9)/Wagstaff (7)
Knight (9)/Trueman (4)

Would be much fairer imo and require less of a shake up, there bench is ok, but other than Wagstaff i dont think the others would get starting or 6th man spots at other clubs so not too stacked either.

Could get a import upto the value of 8 in the starting sf spot or a Weigh or Rush type would fit in and are decent shooters.

Not trying to help the Wildcats, and am a fan of the points system generally, just most of these players are too high, hope they get fixed before the finals come out, if i was a NBL club/player/agent id be appealing just about all of them to get them down graded.

Reply #414210 | Report this post


Phobos 92  
Years ago

I don't know a lot about the points cap.

What would happen if the Wildcats/Breakers had signed up most of their team on 2/3 year deals or a bunch of player options which the players take up?

Would some of the contracts have to be void if honouring the contracts took them over the points cap?

Reply #414218 | Report this post


Pikachu  
Years ago

Vukona has more mmmmmmmmmmm lol

Based on the ratings , which teams had high cap points but shit results?

Reply #414228 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Seeing an article today that martin9, wagstaff8 and bartlett4 because of their existing contracts means they only take up 21points I think redhage10 and hire7 will stay taking them to 38 with 5 roster spots remaining I would prefer dunigan over knight so 48 points. 4 spots open with 22points remaining isn't that bad.

Reply #414241 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"What would happen if the Wildcats/Breakers had signed up most of their team on 2/3 year deals or a bunch of player options which the players take up?"

"Would some of the contracts have to be void if honouring the contracts took them over the points cap?"


Their player rating remains the same from the time they signed the contract. So far Abercrombie has only been on 1 point because of a long term contract. But his current contract has expired so will be a 10 point player next contract he signs.
So here lies the problem, if a team needs to inject a proven seven footer into the team and goes after Pledger then they will need 9 points available in their cap. But as it stands it only costs NZ 3 points of their cap because he is still on a long term contract.

Not sure why a players contract should determine their points value. Should be based on performance, experience and stats.

Reply #414244 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

MIKE DUNIGAN 9
No way. Based on the few games he played, he was a comfortable league best in rebounding, 1st in blocks and 11th in scoring. That's an easy 10. Redhage and Lisch were top-tier players in one of the comps best teams too. Either would be a franchise player at a mid-level team.

I'd take Martin over Vukona - Vukona is often in foul trouble that limits his minutes. Martin was also DPOTY.
Not sure why a players contract should determine their points value. Should be based on performance, experience and stats.
Just being pedantic: it doesn't determine their points value but it does modify that value to offset one impact of the cap, that being that it can otherwise prevent continuity with a club. Encouraging teams to sign and develop young players is a good thing. Obviously there comes a time though where you don't want it to prove too strong an advantage, but what system would be foolproof?

As I often say, the league needs NZ and Perth to feel pressure in assembling their teams and especially when trying to improve those teams. Struggling to retain an existing roster is not ideal, but both teams have players retiring that will impact their situation and we are still only looking at pre-appeal, external rankings.

Reply #414250 | Report this post


Pikachu  
Years ago

Martins gotta comeback strong ,
Seeing he's pretty light the injury won't affect him as much as it did Kemp, Ewing etc careers

Reply #414296 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

How is Wagstaff awesome, he did 3/5ths of jack this year and I always was nervous when he was on-court.

I have to wonder if the Wildcats players get marked extra high deliberately because they know Perth will probably appeal them all no matter what they are so they give themselves wiggle room?

Some of these I just can't justify. Wagstaff spent more time trying to be a hard man than a player all year and his game turned to crap for it, Hire is a player I love (and I wear his numbers on game day and have his signature on the back) but for all the rebounding he has absolutely forgotten how to drop shots. How these ratings get handed out to a team of players that shot SUB-THIRTY in a Grand Final is beyond me.

Reply #414441 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

10 points, 50% 2s, 34% 3s, 4 rebounds in 18 minutes. Theyre pretty good numbers. He really needs more minutes, being wasted a little bit at the moment because the guy in front of him is a star.

Reply #414454 | Report this post




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