Mick
Years ago

Townsville Crocs Roster 2013/14

So the Crocs only have one roster spot left, and I'm liking the way the roster is coming together:

Steven Markovic / Mitch Norton
Peter Crawford / Mirko Djeric
Todd Blanchfield / Josh Pace
Brian Conklin / Jacob Holmes
??? / Russell Hinder

Most guys seem like they will put in effort on game day and play hard, which was what killed us last year, so it’s all coming together...

...except for one thing… who is going to start at the five?

With Matt Burston snapped up by Cairns, Luke Nevill ruled out due to the draconian player points system, and both import slots already filled, who are the Crocs going to even interview, let alone sign?

I can’t even come up with one potential player, let alone a short list, let alone a number 1 target!

They have to be Australian and rated at 8 points or less.

So…

...anyone?

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Cairns  
Years ago

You use the phrase 'let alone' wrong, multiple times, and it's annoying. As for the 5 man, not sure.

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Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

^You are disrespecting the city of Cairns with posts like that.

As for the Center, it's not going to turn out well at all. Then again, expectations might be so low, he turns out half decent.

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Mick  
Years ago

Actually, let alone was used correctly, twice. But that's not really relevant to this discussion.

@Statsheet Stuffer: are you talking in general due to the fact that there is literally no quality guys out there for less than 8 points or is there someone specific in mind? I've got a bad feeling we are going to be reliving the Ben Allen "experience" all over again.

If it goes as badly as I fear it might, the Crocs would have been better off signing Nevill or Hudson up front and then Leon Henry for Pace's spot.

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Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

No I really cannot think of anyone, that's what I was getting at. Nick Horvath perhaps. Don't have a clue what his nationality or points are but he seems like he could do the job. Pretty sure he will come from the NZNBL whoever he is.

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Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

Horvath is a naturalised New Zealander so that's a start. I'll hit up my sources and see if they're onto someone.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Horvath would be a decent option imo, was always decent when used properly in the NBL.

I can see them using a small ball line up alot with Conklin or Holmes playing C a bit and Blancfield playing some PF.

If they cant get a good C, ie Horvath or better are they better off going with a line up of?

Markovich/Norton
Crawford/Djeric
Pace/Henry
Blanchfield/Holmes
Conklin/Hinder

Im not sure if it will work, but am sure that would be better than having Allen or someone similar as starting C just because they are big, atleast Conklin and Holmes will work hard inside and get some rebounds, Holmes did well filling in for Schenscher at C for a few games a couple of years ago, so may not be too bad, most teams in the NBL are not that big so dont see going small ball as a terrible option.

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Mick  
Years ago

Yeah but there is a difference between small ball and starting someone who is 6'6" at the five. Conklin is already undersized for the four. Conklin and Holmes both appear to be great rebounders but there is a difference between rebounding and defense. However I do understand the sentiment of not just grabbing any old stiff.

Conklin stil hasn't been officially signed so maybe they are better off going with a Hudson / Henry option or Nevill / Henry.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Yea, its not ideal but if it comes down to grabbing a C like Ben Allen and starting them or starting a small C like Conklin or Holmes, id chose going small.

Yea maybe they are changing there mind, Hudson would be a great fit, pity he is not an aussie he is the type of guy who could build a solid career in the NBL but as a import may get overlooked, but i am a fan of him and hope he gets a gig somewhere.

I hope Dennis finds a good c, cant think of anyone who would fit and be starting level other than Horvath, and there would be some risk with him as he hasnt played NBL for a few years, but to me he would be the safest bet and alot cheaper than someone like Neville i assume.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

horvath,Greg vanderjagt,brock motum (unlikely), if no luck maybe advertise in local paper for someone 205cm+ who is more talented than Ben Allen

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Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Is there any Aussie bigs in the SEABL or NZBL outside of horvath? From memory Horvath has a good job and lifestyle in NZ so good chance he isn't going to play for the $$$ on offer.


I guess if they can pluck a solid Vet from state leagues rather than a project player would be ideal in case Rusty (made of glass) Hinder goes down and you need mins from them.

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PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

Personally I would've preferred they pick up Hudson and Henry, but I trust that Shawn Dennis must have information that we don't.

Given the Josh Pace signing, would you rather pick up a 5-man that isn't up to snuff, or cut your losses and play small ball?

If you matchup a legit big remaining on the market (presumably *gulp* worse than Ben Allen...) up against the likes of Matty Knight, Alex Pledger, Schenscher/DJ and AJ Ogilvy, you can't expect him to compete.

1. Starting Hinder without playing him 'starters minutes' is always an option.
2. I don't believe starting someone under 6'8" at center is such a big issue in the NBL so long as the Crocs play an incredibly strict team-orientated game and at a faster pace.

Playing small ball may give Townsville the opportunity to really forge an identity and reward the community for their efforts to save their team.

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Mick  
Years ago

Yeah isn't Horvath a physics teacher or something during the day? He sounds pretty well settled.

Crocs are at least 200k under the cap so technically they can sign anyone they want, it's just the points cap that has them hamstrung. Anyone from Europe is an immediate no due to the points cap.

You've got guys like Greg Vanderjagt but it's a bit unfair to expect them to walk into a starters' role and hold down the middle without copping a tonne of flack.

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Mick  
Years ago

And if you go small, Conklin and Holmes both can't shoot (Holmes will try and fail, while Conklin has attempted a handful of threes during his entire career), which means you aren't getting the full value of small ball (guys 1 through 4 being threats from outside to stretch the defense and suck defenders out of the paint).

Which means you aren't playing "small ball" so much as you are playing "traditional ball with a grossly undersized lineup". The whole point of small ball is having four shooters on the floor. It's the only time it works.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Could you grab say Vanderjagt and play C by comitee?

Ie 10 mins each from Vanderjagt, Hinder, Holmes, Conklin giving them a variety of line ups. Not ideal but the best they can do, better than asking Vanderjagt or Hinder to play 20-30 mins each imo.

Small ball can work especially in the NBL, not too many great hard nosed bigs that guys like Holmes couldnt compete with imo.

I'd say they dont plan on spending the full (or most of the) 200k and may not be able to afford Neville in there budget anyway, so the points cap may not be hampering them as much as it seems, but i do get it makes it impossible to sign Neville at any $$ but i would have thought if he was going to sign he would have done so before the imports, so my guess is the Crocs have moved on.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Think Miami Heat with Andersen or Haslem as undersized C's who cant shoot from the peremiter but both rebound well and work hard inside. (I know its a different style of play and the Crocs dont have a LeBron, but still it shows that it can work, atleast part time.)

Blanchfield and Crawford are good shooters and Pace and Markovich will likely hit there share so they should be good enough from the perimeter, you dont need big numbers offensively from the C spot aslong as the others score well. My guess is Conklin will be a bit of a Dusty Rychart type who often played C for the 2007 bullets and with the 36ers, so it can work in successful teams in the NBL aswell.

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Mick  
Years ago

At this point I trust Shawn Dennis to put a decent team together, because I like the group of guys he has assembled so far, so I hope he's got something up his sleeve.

Having said that, if the last signing is an end of the bench guy, and not a key contributor, we are really going to struggle.

Whether it is some fantasy-land re-rated Kazzouh or Luke Nevill or just another versatile 3/4 to add to the mix to go all in on this small ball thing, we still need someone else who can score the ball down low, whether from the post or a slashing game, or we are going to be looking at 2012/13 all over again.

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Flinders80  
Years ago

You could start putting together a list of Aussies from each local leagues and you might find someone worth taking a punt on. Remembering ideally you want them to 6"9 and above.

Sam Harris 7"3
Jeff Dowdell 6"9
Greg Vanderjagt 7"0
Ross Allsop 6"11
Martin Iti 7"0

Just to name a few

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Very true,

Mick/croc supporters do you have a preference out of those guys? if you had to chose one to split the C mins with Hinder.

Or prefer to go with the smaller Leon Henry and have no real C on the roster and go small ball?

Will be interesting to see what they do.

Out of those names Harris (due to his size), Dowdell and Iti probably intrigue me the most.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I had forgotten all about Dowdell I think he would be a handy pickup. Vanderjagt a possibility but wouldn't bother with Iti or Harris

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Anonymous  
Years ago

What happened to Craig Bradshaw (6-10 kiwi) is he still playing ball

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Mick  
Years ago

Greg Vanderjagt - not much skill but you know he is going to put in the effort. You can always root for a guy who tries. He's proven at this level too, and on this team. Can handle himself and can play decent D, but slow as hell.

Ross Allsop - I don't know anything about Allsop but his numbers in the Waratah league look intriguing. Unproven at this level though.

Sam Harris - no thanks. Anyone who is 7'3" and isn't already playing in this league must have something severely wrong with them. Averages 4 rebounds in the SEABL despite being a head taller than most other guys.

Dowdell - a known quantity and proven contributor at this level. At only 6'9" though, I'd rather start Holmes. Wouldn't mind him on my team, but if the point here is to have an inside presence to clog up the middle and bang with Pledger, Schensch, Ogilvy, etc. then he probably doesn't fit.

Martin Iti - never saw anything from him during his time in the NBL outside of some nice looking dunks.

I'd actually take Vandy over the rest, but that's probably only because I have seen him play more than the others. Like mentioned above, you'd play him and Hinder limited minutes at the five and play small for most of the game.

I'd be happy to go all in on the small ball if Conklin and Holmes weren't both already undersized. They both are closer to the size of NBL swingmen, and already play above their size at the four. Asking them to man the five all season long is a stretch.

The Crocs learnt a valuable lesson last season by getting smashed on both ends in the paint prior to Nevill's arrival so you would think they wouldn't want to relive that.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Yea good summary Mick,

Say they sign Vandy and play him Hinder, Conklin at the 5 say 15-20 mins each.

Say Conklin is the next Dusty and averages say 15pts 8 rebds playing pf/c, plays bigger than he is and can fill in C for part of the game and do ok, not too many big dominant C's to smash him.

Pace is a decent swingman averages around 13-18 pts 5 rebounds, with the occasional big game

Markovic has a good season gets around 10-15 points and 5-6 assists.

and everyone else is at about there average with some improvement from Norton and Djeric how do you think the Crocs will go?

Sounds ok to me, id probably expect them to miss the playoffs but should be quite interesting to watch, ill be tuning in to watch Markovich, Pace and see how they go have wanted them in the NBL for ages,

if the imports are bargains and work out and happy to stick around on the cheap side along with Marko, Blanchfield and the young guards could really build themselves something for the future as even if they have decent seasons and are retained id expect Pace and Conklin to get rated as around 8-9s which would alone free up the extra couple of points, if the points cap even exists next season. It may not come next season but if the Crocs can retain the coar group, and add to it slowly each year could turn out well in the long run whilst not beeing too shocking in the short term.

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Mick  
Years ago

What about Rick Rickert? Has he been naturalised as a kiwi?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

You pretty much must have a good, big centre who can anchor the defence in the NBL or you wont win anything. If you dont have someone who can guard Knight, Schenscher, Nevill, Pledger and Ogilvy it will be a long year.

Rest of the team looks great, hopefully Dennis knows something we dont!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Rickert would be perferct if he is naturalised.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

You pretty much must have a good, big centre who can anchor the defence in the NBL or you wont win anything. If you dont have someone who can guard Knight, Schenscher, Nevill, Pledger and Ogilvy it will be a long year.

Rest of the team looks great, hopefully Dennis knows something we dont!

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Mystro  
Years ago

nope Ricketts still a yank

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Wookiee  
Years ago

Pretty sure Rickert was only naturalising as a Kiwi to get the gig at Gold Coast, before that fell through, then he took off overseas...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

He would have been a 9pt player wouldn't he?

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Mick  
Years ago

Just noticed Rickert wasn't listed as an import on the NZBL website and it got me a little perked up...

Must be a mistake?

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skull  
Years ago

see what happened to Cairns when they went small at the 5 spot.....

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Mystro  
Years ago

"see what happened to Cairns when they went small at the 5 spot....."

^ THIS

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Mick  
Years ago

or what happened to Townsville before the signed Luke Nevill...

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Kr  
Years ago

Angus Brandt, university of Oregon? 11.3 and 8.5

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skull  
Years ago

Mystro - ^ THIS?

What do you mean?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

????/Hinder 5
Conklin 10/Holmes 7
Blanchfield 7/Pace 10
Crawford 8/Djeric 3
Markovic 8/Norton 3

Leaves nine points - enough for Brandt, Kickert, Horvath, Hodgson, Bairstow, Vanderjagt, Loe, Khazzouh, Mottram or Nielsen.

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Mick  
Years ago

All depends on what Markovic is rated as because he hasn't been rated yet. But 8 would be pretty fair for him I think. I must have counted wrong earlier, but yeah you're right it seems they have 9 points to play with.

Angus Brandt went down early last season with a season ending injury in his senior year. He was granted "medical hardship" to get another year of eligibility for 13/14, so he's not going to come play for the Crocs.

I think you can rule Cam Bairstow out as well, also with another year of college eligibility. Same story for Loe and Hodgson.

Neil Mottram has retired, so no.

I don't see Matt Neilsen coming back to Australia to play for Townsville, but it would be nice. Don't really want Dan Kickert for the money he would be asking (too soft).

Khazzouh is a nine though. Interesting.

I think they should also look at getting Luke Nevill rated down. If Khazzouh's stats were better than Nevill's in every single category in the NBL, how is he a point lower?

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Mystro  
Years ago

"Mystro - ^ THIS? What do you mean?"

I meant it was a great point, they (Cairns) were 1 half decent big man off competing with the top teams last season.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The Crocs now train at public venues. (They used to have there own court)
Over the past couple weeks Vandergat, Johnson, Burston & a couple other young guys I didn't recognise have worked out with them.
Food for thought.....

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Mick  
Years ago

Who's Johnson, anon?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Maybe crocs could do what kings have done and carry 11 contracted players. I reckon sign vanderjagt and Jeff dowdell (both 4 point players) would give crocs one extra big just an option

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Mick  
Years ago

Not the worst idea, anon, if it works financially.

Reply #427627 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

You guys are thinking too highly of Vanderjagt.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Vanderjagt is better than Ben Allen imo

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Mick  
Years ago

Yeah Vandy proved unequivocally during his short-term contract when Luke Schenscher went down the season before last that he is ten times the player Ben Allen is. You got to compare A-B every game.

Lots of Crocs fans were sad to see him leave when Schensch came back because we knew he was a far better option than Ben Allen.

Like I said, you can always root for a guy when you can see he's working his butt off out there.

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Crocs4Life  
Years ago

I think the imports are clever signings. Both have good college pedigrees. Conklin went to St Louis and could turn out to be another Kev Lisch - a real surprise package.

Markovic is going to make a big impact. Not just for our team but the league too.

Deric could easily be rookie of the year (if he still qualifies for it?) His performance in the semis last year against Perth was nothing short of oustanding for an 18 year old.

If they can now sign a player like Vandy - who comes in and plays a similar role to a player like Trueman did in Perth that would be perfect. All they need is for him to play 10 - 15 mins a game and be 7ft. And not Ben Allen!!

It's looking like Dennis knows what he's doing for sure. Seems to be a very mobile team he's assembled which fits the uptempo style of game he said he was going to run when he took the job.

I'm excited about this season, If the imports work out well, it will be a good season and the start of a new era for the Crocs as they develop over the next few seasons.

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Isaac  
Years ago

Wasn't there a criticism of Vanderjagt in the past that he didn't quite excel when there wasn't an immediate contract at stake? I remember him putting up good numbers for the Blaze when he was trying to prove himself too.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

He's a handy big man though, certainly better than Ben Allen.

Reply #427711 | Report this post


Crocs4Life  
Years ago

so much Ben Allen love lol!!

Reply #427713 | Report this post




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