not a terrible line up but yeah... kind of wish crawford would hurry up and retire.

Wow Vanderjagt?? Good on him for still having a crack...that said is they were heading in the older big guy direction thought maybe Simon Conn could have got a look....he has turned back the clock in SEABL this year.

Haven't seen Vanderjagt play for a few years thou and only watched Conn twice tis year so maybe Vanderjagt has improved.

says vanderjagts only 29?

Whos going to play the 5?

Very sad it had to get to this. Rusty is not absolutely hopeless, but still it's definitely the worst frontcourt in the league.

Will be interesting to see how they use their lineups. If Russell Hinder starts at centre I will literally go insane.

Hinder and Vanderjagt are both end of the roster calibre guys, so they are both going to have a massive burden on their shoulders being asked to deliver regular minutes. Ideally you'd really only have one of the two on your roster as a backup to a proper starting-calibre centre.

Low, low, loooooow budget team.

If they aren't competitive though, make no mistake, they won't be in the league for 14/15. The Townsville public won't support a losing season after last year's mess, and if they can't win the crowds will stay low and the franchise will die.

Sadly I think the Crocs will really struggle. The frontcourt is worse than last year's and it was our biggest weakness last year.

HAVING SAID THAT, if Dennis can get them hustling and scrapping you could see them overachieve and who knows what could happen. They are a great team at positions one through four, they just have two of the lesser centres in the league as their only options at the five.

It all depends on how much PC is on, anon. Last season he was the most overpaid guy in the league, if he's on anywhere near that money this year than yes we are much better without him and having a proper centre.

Yes, anon they probably are, basketball wise. Holmes is more than capable of starting but I think this vanderjagt announcement has shown they didnt have the money to sign a proven nbl import like hudson in the first place. This roster at a rough rough guess is probably only 3/4 of the salary cap.

Hopefully dennis can get them playing tough and hard and over achieving. And at positions 1-4 they are as goof as any team in the league.

sadly it also highlights the lack of parity in this league when you have a team with a salary cap surplus the size of a fringe nba level talent's asking price

When you see teams needing to resort to players like russel hinder, vanderjagt, ben allen, keeping PC... you realise the league simply COULD NOT SUPPORT MORE TEAMS!!!!!!!

Well if there was all this young talent they wouldnt be resorting to Vanderjagt and Hinder. NEWS FLASH 2008 was 5 years ago.. Find me 3-4 more teams of young talent? where is this young talent? Here is an exercise for you... Name me just 10, 10 names of young talent that wants to be in the league RIGHT NOW and isnt already vying for Europe. Alright GO.... If I know nothing... show me that you know something I dont...

Well.. until he can name me a team full of new talent I am not sure what grounds he has to say that we could have 3-4!~

Mick- the word 'goof' would be better used describing the crocs 5 spot !

No its in wonderful shape apparently. So much so that we can find another 3-4 teams of young talent. Stable teams that wont collapse full of young players better then Hinder and Vanderjagt. Someones been smoking too much pot.

Dennis said vanderjagt will play a backup role like trueman, so surely he can't mean to start hinder at 5. Given that the Conklin signing is not official I wonder if Hudson or similar f/c import is going to be signed instead as a starting 5 and hinder to back up Holmes at 4.
With Pace at 6'5, holmes at 6'6 and blanchfield at 6'7 we don't really need another 6'6 forward, but are in desperate need of a starting quality centre. I'll go out on a limb and say Conklin won't sign and well get a 6'9 to 6'10 import instead.

Kr dont worry about all that mate. Because theres all these imaginary invisable players who can fill four teams that Anonymous created in his mind.

9th, 10th men yes... but U dont think it would further dillute the talent? I think that more teams might put the league in a financially worse state.

I would take many of the players listed before Hinder/Allen/Vander actually. Whats going on with Majok? heard he was improving...

Possibly the worst nbl backcourt in the last 20 years, will struggle to score 25+ a game between all four players, but best of luck to Dennis and the Crocs. At least they are still in the comp.

They are going to want to be a run/gun team and hope not to rely on posting up very much. I cant imagine them contending with adelaides frontcourt

Add three teams to the league and that's 30 playing spots. Six imports makes it 24. Some mid-range players move team to start elsewhere (their places filled by DPs) - let's say a couple per new team. 18 spots. Each team has a lowly SEABL newcomer as 10th man, so 15 spots.

Carter, Daly, Tait, Burdon, Bartlett, Lewis, Macmillan, Dowdell, Cedar, Cedar, D Williamson, B Williamson, Henry, Gynes, Bose, Herbert, Iti, Kendall, Sturt, Conn, Majok, L Martin, Bruce, Dillon, L Cooper, K Williams, D George. That's 27 and I don't know SEABL much. Add SEABL (McDonald) and DP types, etc. Or naturalising guys like Braswell, Horvath, Massingale, etc. All have a case to be in the league at some level.

And I didn't even have to list SoJ.

League overall dilutes talent slightly, but it's a 40 minute game where you could stick to a shorter rotation, plus the increased starting spots improves the chance of bringing back Barlow, Bose, Khazzouh, etc.

As Anon says, teams would come in gradually meaning more college graduates are available.

In a perfect world I would love to see expansion. But yeah, would wanna see the viability and the talent first. Hopefully someones making a play on Bairstow he could be real good in the league... Broekhoff would be alright too... I am actually beginning to think he might not be up to europe (yet)... who could fit in broekhoff right now?

Aussies to lure back:

David Anderson (getting old worth a try)
Matt Neilson (as above)
Joe Ingles (cant hurt his cause to come home, dominate the nbl... get real playing time and then go try out for NBA again in summer with real game experience)
David Barlow (said something about wanting to come back.. )
Ryan Broekhoff... Unsigned
Cam Baitstow (next year)
Matt Delevedova (have to ask the question)
Brock Motum... (who knows?)

Oh Majoks playing in christophersons old team? lol. Well, might wanna pass on him too...

I don't see why not, start the campaign... sometimes I think teams can be a bit blind to there options. Broekhoff is a good player, but hes obviously not NBA and might be a bit hard pressed for europe right now, make a play on him. I think he still has to prove himself, and heres as good a place as any

Guys, quit saying blokes with college eligibility left are recruiting targets. No one is leaving college early. No one.

As for the Crocs, here's hoping KR is right and Conklin is not our import (no knock on Conklin: he seems like a tough player that I'd love to have, but our starting 5 slot is screaming out for Will Hudson).

Vanderjagt, as I've said before, is slow as hell and not terribly skilled, but he works his ass off every possession. You can't say the same for most guys who play back up roles. Effort is very underrated in this league.

The one thing that stands out about this roster is that every looks like they are all going to be hard-working, team-first guys (with the exception of PC and Holmes, maybe, but hopefully they can prove me wrong and change their attitudes). At the very least, Shawn Dennis has a vision for the club, which has been lacking for a long time.

If indeed Conklin is our man, I would rather start Greg Vanderjagt over Rusty, and keep Rusty as veteran leadership off the bench. For one: age. Vandy is technically in his prime. I would rather see Rusty play fewer minutes to lighten the load on his aging body. Secondly: activity level. When Rusty starts and plays large minutes, his motor ticks over at a lower level. That's when you see the defensive lapses start to add up and you see him overthinking plays. When you bring him off the bench he plays harder in a more limited role and you get better per-minute production.

Like I said above, 1-4 we are good as anyone in the league. 5 is just shallow as a drying puddle.

That said, you look at teams like Sydney and Adelaide who have star power, but are a little "soft" at the five, and you think the Crocs could outhustle them (at a stretch).

Yeah mick, with our last position having the flexibility of being an import spot, I can't see why Dennis would paint us into a corner by signing a 3/4 import when those spots are covered. Put Hudson in the 5 spot and you have a much more balanced team, a great worker and offensive rebounder, someone who likes being in the paint and at 6'10 can match up with any centre in the nbl. Much better option IMO.

from what I saw of Conklin he's kind of like a Rick Rickett only Vukona's size without Vukona's strength and athleticism (not saying he's weak but just not a beast).
He liked backing guys down on the block and then went to a fadeaway jumpshot.

This line up really is screaming for Will Hudsons size and mobility.

Especially because if you want to go small and agile without Conklin you can just as easily go:

Norton
Markovic
Pace
Blanchfield
Holmes

Or

Norton
PC
Pace
Blanchfield
Holmes

Or...

...a million other combos due to the versatility of guys like Markovic, Djeric, Norton, Pace, Blanchfield, Holmes who can all play at least two positions.

From what it looks like Conklin is going to be similar to Holmes except probably a weaker rebounder but a better offensive player (albeit with less range).

But if what it comes down to is that Hudson costs 100k+ and Conklin is only on 80k and that's all we can afford, well, then that’s all we can afford.

Also the other thing about Conklin is that he will only be able to play one position and that's the 4. Way too small to play 5 even in a small ball lineup, and can't shoot so will be a liability at the three.

Hudson on the other hand can play the four or five, and is seemingly just a taller, better version of Conklin. To me it's a no brainer, assuming he could be had financially. It would just open up the lineup and give us way more options in terms of versatility. He is very mobile as well so can still be trotted out in "small" lineups as the anchor.

No. Brainer.

Why wouldn't he?

His style of play is obviously effective here, and other than him being able to make more money elsewhere, what would put him off?

Could he even make more money elsewhere?

Hinder lol

Lets hope that Vandy doesn't learn how to become the dirty & talentless hack that Hinder is.

How would you like me to respond to that trolling comment as to ensure you get the full level of personal satisfaction & attention you are so clearly craving?

I'm happy to play ball here, just point me in the right direction.

Trolling? I'm stating fact. Hinder is dirty and a hack and I hope that Vandy doesn't go down that path.

Hinder is one of the nicest guys in the league, anyone will tell you that. I wish he were a dirty player who played a lot harder and relished contact, but he isn't.

You are so way off base.

And this is coming from someone who doesn't really rate him at all, I wish we had someone else. But dirty he ain't.

I don't really care if he is a nice guy. He is a dirty player and its been getting worse since his skills have diminished (circa his stint at the Kings).

Care to cite some specific evidence rather than deal in vague generalities??

Also, what's the bet that anon above and the situation are both posting from the same IP? Mods care to confirm?

Sure.

A game at Challenge a few years ago, he was getting soundly beaten by Redhage. Redhage drove to the hoop and Hinder smashed his arms downwards on to Redhage's head. It was a poorly disguised attempt at a block and Hinder showed no remorse.

A season or two earlier, Robbins was driving to the hoop and was fouled by Hinder. Nothing out of the ordinary except then the ball landed in Hinder's hand so he threw it in Robbins face.

(cue obvious responses of "yeah but it was redhage and robbins they deserved it lol")

Exactly.

"I prefer vague generalities."

Not from me. Seriously, this forum loses a lot of integrity when people can post anonymously or pinch people's usernames in order to shit stir.

And Mick, nice try buddy but I don't post anonymously and I have one user name. Happy for mods to confirm. If you're going to keep being a dick about things, let me know and I'll do my best to not insult you or people you consider to be nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozEwRdfa0bo

Here you go Mick. Nice Guy Rusty shows what sort of player he is.

I tend to agree with mick on this one, hinder is definitely passionate but I wouldn't say dirty but hey I'm a crocs fan. I guess it's like the situation( obviously a Perth fan) giving examples of hinder playing dirty against redhage and Robbins, two of the dirtiest most antagonising players ever to play nbl. I'll keep my rosé coloured glasses if you keep yours haha!

I can't speak for what he was like before coming to Townsville because quite frankly I paid no notice to him.

During his tenure at the Crocs I've watched most of his games and seen nothing that I'd consider dirty whatsoever.

Like I said above, I almost wish he was "dirty" because it implies a certain level of effectiveness or aggressivenes that is attracting scorn from opposition supporters.

On top of that, for me to consider someone dirty it has to be repeated stuff that happens every game, not an isolated brawl from five years ago. Ie. habits like Shawn Redhage or Reggie Evans or someone like that who you can see them doing the same stuff every game, year in year out.

Rusty is always a metre behind every play in Townsville. He hardly is close enough to anyone to pull a fast one.

Just my two cents and I'll keep an eye out next time I watch him play (in between banging my head against the wall wondering how he still has a contract).

And I couldn't agree with you more about anonymous posters on this forum. It ruins the whole thing and it's getting worse.

No, I'm not making any comment about the Perth players, but their antagonistic playing style has got nothing to do with whether Hinder is dirty or not.

Yeah Hinder is the nicest bloke off the field. Gave me a big wave last night at the Cowboys game in Townsville after not seeing me for about a year. And I never really had that much to do with him.

But on court, he's sort of a jerk. I used to absolutely hate his illegal screens to set up shooters when Gleeson was coach. But that's just playing the game. I only hated it because it was going against my team. His only major wrongdoing from memory is the Loughton incident, apart from that it's just the niggle.

...and Clint Reed.

Well it seems we are in opposite, inverted, bizarro camps.

You say Hinder is dirty and wish he wasn't.

I say Hinder plays too clean and wish he would show more grit, even if it means playing a little dirtier.

Also, what's the bet that anon above and the situation are both posting from the same IP? Mods care to confirm?

Thanks Isaac.

No hard feelings Mick, the impersonator probably would have tricked me too.

You know despite the arguments about or centre combo here, when you see the team lined up like that on paper, I'm actually pretty happy with it, and a littl excited to see how it all goes. Nice bench.

It seems like it will be a good team chemistry-wise, Ziah, and should play an exciting brand of ball.

9 out of 10 players I wouldn't change.

But the sad reality is that we really should have a starting centre of a better calibre and then have only one of Hinder or Vandy backing them up. Oh well.

We may not have a standout low post scorer at centre like schensher or nevill, but we have ample, size scoring and versatility 1-4. Vandy may be there to use as a defensive matchup for the likes of Pledger and not required to be a real scorer.

Definately willing to give Dennis the thumbs up for his recruiting regardless, and will be pumped to see how this team plays. Certainly imagining high pressure full court and plenty of run and gun.

Geez just saw Conklin is 198 and 104kg, same height as Vukona but about 10kg heavier than he and Holmes. Thats a fair unit, lets hope hes the banger and scrapper we need.

Big question mark for me is how good Markovic is at NBL level. Pretty budget team otherwise with the two NZ NBL imports and barely-in-the-league centres. Definitely keen to see what Pace can do though.

Isaac is right. As an aside: if Hinder or Vandy weren't with the Crocs, would any other team even give them a look in?

The big question mark now the roster is set is going to be points in the paint. Crocs have really struggled in that department the last two years. Even with Schenscher and Nevill, we never had a second option inside scorer to complement them so defenses could just load up. We had two of the better centres to play in this league and points in te paint was still our biggest problem, and now both are gone.

Holmes and Hinder cannot score in the paint at this point in their careers. Vandy can finish better than either of them but he's not an offensive player.

So what it comes down to is whether guys like Norton (a great finisher for a young tiny PG), Markovic, Blanchfield and Pace can pick up the slack and get inside with regularity, on top of whether Conklin's -- who seems to be our only interior offensive option at this point -- offensive game translates to the NBL.

If Blanchfield can take that next step and get to 16 ppg or so it will also be a big salve for the situation. All the tools are there, just needs the basketball mindset.