david
Years ago

Did Brian Goorjian ruin the NBL?

I was listening to the Aussie Hoopla podcast with Brian Goorjian on how he feels the rules have changed the NBL and thought it was apt the comment they guys made there that many feel the reason why the rules got so physical in the first place was because Goorjians physical teams anyways.

Do many others agree?

Take a listen to the podcast on itunes if you want, its actually a good one, but hadn't thought about the league from this angle before

Topic #33155 | Report this topic


Isaac  
Years ago

Sure, but it didn't ruin the NBL, just changed it and applied pressure to refs in the way they called the game.

Reply #445570 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

He was a part of it, but he wasnt the only one. Defence was so bad here, it was always going to change at some point.

Reply #445575 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think when you're trying to defend a team with Timmons, Gaze, Copeland and Bradtke you would do anything humanly possible to grind the game out and make it a physical war. But that's a while ago.

Reply #445578 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I suggested this in another post last week or the week before....

Reply #445595 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Goorjian brought in the fully professional era (full squad training during the day and nobody on the team working regular jobs).

Teams needed to keep up with this to compete which may have led to some teams (Goorjian's teams included) spending too much compared to budgets especially as crowds decreased.

This perhaps is what caused some of the leagues issues over the last decade and not improved defense.

Reply #445598 | Report this post


Kobe24  
Years ago

Guy comes across as a douche.... but great for the game. Brought it slightly more up to speed with the real world.

Reply #445602 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Paul is right.

Defense was so bad in the NBL until more recently so it was an inevitable transition.

Reply #445609 | Report this post


GuesswhosBACK  
Years ago

Brian Goorjian didn't ruin the NBL.. missmanagement at the top ruined the NBL... bad promotion ruined it.

Say what you want about low scoring games being boring.. if only 30 shots are hit in a whole game in a boring slow basketball game.. thats still 29 more goals made then most soccer games. Difference?... promotion, vibe, Media.. etc.

And if Goorj took defense too far, thats what he had to do to win in that era. The referees allowed what they allowed for a good decade or so.... when a toddler steals a truck and crashes it.. you blame the parents, not the toddler. He was doing what any good coach who wants to do does, find the area in which they have the upper hand and exploit it. No, I think in many ways Brian enriched the competition... some of the greatest teams ever to play in the NBL have been coached by Brian Goorjian.

Reply #445616 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What ruined it in recent times were inferior Goorj clones like Bevo.

Reply #445618 | Report this post


POP  
Years ago

I subscribe to the 'Goorgianisation' theory, and it is not fair - or accurate - to say the referees 'allowed' it. It became what they were conditioned - through cynical repetitive thuggery - to see and accept as normal.In other words, it became the norm, which everyone grew to accept.

It's like pointless music smothering and keeping crowds out of games and, more to the point, modern footwork.

Many - probably most - shooters travel almost whenever they jump shoot because they always shift the same foot into the shot, irrespective of whether they landed on their left or right.

It's what they do every time, and the refs won't - almost can't - call it every time, so it becomes accepted.

And then we have Ennis. A few more of those three and four-step spectacular layups' - or dunks - and that will become the norm - if it isn't already - because that is what the refs, and everyone else, gets used to seeing and therefore registers as 'right'.

Which takes us back to Goorgian et al. The first few times it was 'did he really do that?' ... by which time it was too late to call.

The next few times it was blown, but they just kept on doing it, frequently and blatantly. This meant the refs simply missed some thuggery because it was so frequent. And because there was so much of it, they started to not blow much of that they did see, starting to make value judgements about what and what not to call for fear of 'blowing the game to pieces'.

And so, gradually but inexorably, it became the 'norm' - just like seeing shooters shift the wrong foot up and, more recently 'spectacular' - but illegal - three and four-step layups, which currently still often fall into that initial 'did he really do that?' category.

Reply #445632 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

The period with the lowest scoring rate in NBL history was around 1997-2000 and that didnt help keep crowds around.

No doubt the more defensive style Goorjian and a few other coaches implemented didnt help, but the talk of thuggery is funny, you can play very physical defence without fouling, and those good teams did that often enough so they got away with fouling a lot of the times when they did.

It was like Simon Dwight getting away with more contact on a blocked shot because he blocked so many clean.

Reply #445639 | Report this post


The Key  
Years ago

Didn't all the teams he coached go bankrupt?... i think enough said.

Reply #445687 | Report this post


GuesswhosBACK  
Years ago

They all went bankrupt... just after winning championships... a strange trend

Reply #445688 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Dragons did not go bankrupt learn your history.

Reply #445690 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The Key has no idea. Was goorj responsible for the Kings owner who had a pill that made cars go further? Piss off please.

Those responsible were the likes of Mal Speed and Bill Palmer. They all had stupid grandiose visions of an NBL super league which was never going to happen.
Everyone thought they were the NBA equivalents and full timeprofessionals. Lets train 3 times a day for the one home game we have a week or the 2 away games a week. Crap. Many superstars of the NBL in the ol days never set foot inside of a gym, or if they did it was to get the login to the gym checked off.
The NBA when it was on FTA gave everyone the same expectation that the NBL was the same to australians.
Equally in the midst of becoming professional the NBl forgot their grass roots of where and how they existed. They failed to look after the clinics, schools, camps and the comuuntiy from where they cam They were too busy going to the gym. Not only that but the Speed's of the world and those beyond never could nor wanted to enforce the salary cap.
Speed went onto ruining cricket as well.
Palmer who cares.

Reply #445691 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

i thought Brian was the Coach, not the CEO in charge of how much?

Reply #445701 | Report this post


Proud  
Years ago

How fun was it to hate a Goorjian coached team... Especially took great joy in the Titans being beaten like the did in finals.

I respect the hell out of Brian (so happy he's in the HOF) and anyone that can let your passion rise to the surface like he does can only be good for the game... Too many boring coaches that will remain forgotten ie Woolpert

Reply #445705 | Report this post


hoopie  
Years ago

Like it, Pop.

Reply #445716 | Report this post


bowtie  
Years ago

I didn't know that cricket was broke or the attendances were poor? Speed responsible for that?

Dragons folded before they went broke? Sort of.

It was no secret they had the highest budget(besides the Bullets) for everything outside the salary cap. However, their starting 5 players were left with lucrative 2 year contracts and no payout of any kind. Also unpaid medical bills.

Reply #445719 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Speed ended up being a laughing stock in international cricket. The machinations of what occurred there were not generally in the public arena. Of course the crowds would never drop off nor ever be broke.
Speed managed his international cricket career as well and he managed the NBL. He left both positions before he was pushed.

Reply #445728 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

That's a bit rich,Proud.

Paul Woolpert was probably the most candid and animated coach the league has seen in the past five years or so.

Reply #445819 | Report this post


True Fan  
Years ago

I agree totally with GuessWhosback.. A coach doesn't ruin the league.. The NBL mismanagement ruin it!

And..Not bad promotions but nearly NO promotions by the NBL also ruin it!

Thank God the NBL has demerged from BA! The NBL need to regain there identity to then lift its profile in Australia.

Reply #446087 | Report this post


Proud  
Years ago

I didn't mean offence Mick, I quite liked his passion but next decade how many will remember him and how many fondly?

I love that game I think against the Kings where he got ejected!

Reply #446123 | Report this post




You need to be a registered user to post from this location. Register here.



Close ads
Little Streaks - The fun and interactive good-habits app designed especially for kids.
Serio: Tourism photography and videography

Advertise on Hoops to a very focused, local and sports-keen audience. Email for rates and options.

Recent Posts



.


An Australian basketball forum covering NBL, WNBL, ABL, Juniors plus NBA, WNBA, NZ, Europe, etc | Forum time is: 4:00 pm, Tue 19 Mar 2024 | Posts: 968,026 | Last 7 days: 754