I really dont think it would work.

They wouldn't fill the Arena with a new franchise without the Wildcats history.

And they none of the regional centres have big enough stadiums.

Geraldton and Kalgoorlie get pretty good crowds in the SBL but not NBL good.

MAYBE if it was like a SBL all stars type team to get all of their local fans to be supporters but most of those people already are Wildcats members.

Yeah I mean Albany and geralton have similar populations, but Albany does have broader regional area to draw from, like Denmark and mt barker.

I remember reading somewhere that a Darwin team would have helped Singapore

No.

Not gonna happen anytime soon

Hell no

That's probably the same reaction most west coast supports had when freo was announced. But now nothing beats a Western derby.

A second NBL team in Perth will need a lot more to survive than a couple of great derby games a year.

They will never survive all those early years that Freo did until Ross Lyons brought them their "overnite success."

You need another white knight like Jack Bendat (even more generous as there is no history to build on) and the NBL to support them in ways other than a welcoming press release.
A community programme team will not survive more than one season against the Cats.

They could do what the lakers and clippers do... would be pretty cool but to small a market for it to go ahead.

How about we take one of the few successful teams in the NBL and screw them over. Yeah, that sounds like a smart thing to do.

WTF?

no.

Short term I can only see benefits in Melbourne, Brisbane, Wellington and West Sydney (provided they have a stadium actually in the west). Other than that I dont see what a new franchise would offer the league financially.

Down the track as population grows maybe places like Newcastle, Hobart, Gold Coast and Canberra can come into the equation, but I think that's post-2020 talk.

What were the Razorback's crowds like?

If a 2nd Perth franchise starts up, I bet you it won't be the worst franchise going around. I'm certain it will perform better off the court than 2 current NBL teams - Townsville and Wollongong. Even if they play at Challenge Stadium, which would be logical, they could still get a decent following.

However, it won't happen. Without going into the commercial issues that would face a 2nd team there are other factors preventing this (which is unfortunate, as Im sure everybody wants to see more NBL teams).

Even if there was a bid to get one started (has there ever been interest in a 2nd Perth team?) they would be completely overshadowed by the Wildcats profile. If you live in WA and like basketball, chances are you're a Wildcats fan. And if you're not, then you're not into the NBL, so don't bother.

From a media perspective, they wouldn't survive. Even the Cats - with their 11,000 crowd average and strong brand presence in Perth - battle to get on the sports news on a regular basis. Can you imagine a fledgling expansion team?

Besides, at worst, rather than creating new fans, you will most likely be taking away existing Wildcats fans that may want to follow a "battler/ underdog type" team. Can't see many people wanting to do that anyway.

It won't happen. Unfortunately.

Sydney - population 4 627 345
Kings ave attendance. 4 771

Melbourne - Pop. 4 137 432
Tigers att. 3 320

Perth - pop. 1 738 807
Wildcats att. 11 000

Hmm yep let's bang another team Melbourne...

Basketball in melbourne isn't quite that simple.

That's my point Perth doesn't have to be a one horse town. I garrantee you would have more success with a second team in Perth than a second team in Melbourne or Sydney and it wouldn't hurt the Wildcats at all. In fact it would enhance basketball even more in the west.

But sadly it won't happen for awhile.

Oh and get of the 'clearly not much else to do in perth' crap. The Wildcats went up against an A league fixture and still got a bigger crowd so give the cats management some damn credit.

Let me guess your from Sydney and your excuse for the kings poor crowds is there is to much to do in Sydney? Doesn't make sense.

"I garrantee you would have more success with a second team in Perth than a second team in Melbourne or Sydney and it wouldn't hurt the Wildcats at all."

An explanation might go a long way to convincing people...

If Sydney and Melbournes main teams are averaging 4700 and 3320 respectively, what are you expecting their second teams to average?

At least in Perth people actively follow and are engaged in the nbl. We have a healthy state league. We have a smaller stadium ready, we love Western derbies and it doesn't take long to bring a basketball team up to standard like it does with footy. But the main point would be to do it while there is momentum or you miss the opportunity.

But like most things when people start to think its a good idea its often to late.

There are many other expansion options ahead of a 2nd Perth team. The jealously over perths crowd figures is amusing

There is absolutely no need for a second perth team, why divide up a decent crowd? they are all united for the Wildcats... there are no pockets of dissent like there is in Melbourne where many people involved with the junior program LOATHE the tigers because they play against there junior team. EVen though Tigers average somewhat poorly... I think if the Magic came back they would do just fine... Perth doesn't need competition... its fine as it is. Cities that have failed to capitolise on a potential fan base (Melbourne) couild use it.. As for second sydney team... dont like the idea... better off looking at places that don't have teams yet then to do sydney.

jjb,

what do you call a healthy State League?

jjb, Im assuming youre not from Melbourne. so a few points to clarify.

- Basketball in Melbourne is divided along association lines, the Melbourne Tigers are just one association

- So even though the new Tigers management is doing a great job of getting into other associations, there are thousands and thousands of basketball people in Melbourne who just wont barrack for them

- If you asked randomly around Perth who people followed in the NBL, Im pretty sure even many non-basketball fans would say the Wildcats, you wouldnt get that in Melbourne with the Tigers

- The 3300 figure is largely irrelevant because of the stadium they play in. Last season when they played in Hisense they averaged over 5000

- Just a few years ago there was another team in Melbourne called the South Dragons, they averaged 4000-5000 in their three years without impacting on Tigers crowds

- I dont know Sydney, but I imagine if you put a stadium in western Sydney I think youd be marketing to an demographic (as big as Perth) who mostly dont travel to the CBD for entertainment, given the difficulty of getting there

- The amount of corporate dollars available in both Sydney and Melbourne far outstreaks that in Perth, and with the Wildcats doing such a great job in that area it would be very difficult for a new team to get the $$ required.

I just don't see why you'd mess with what the Wildcats have going? Great crowds and brand. Don't do anything that risks disrupting that right now. Nothing wrong with being satisfied with a really healthy club for the foreseeable future.

Paul understands the market down south and is on the money with his comment, jjb you don't have a handle on how basketball works down here mate...

In time, maybe a second team in Perth (or Freeo maybe), but Brisbane and other markets need to come first I believe...

I'm working of the assumption the league wants to double the amount of teams in nbl. There will and should be teams in Brisbane, Melbourne, Sydney and new Zealand to add to the league. I'm just saying Perth should be in consideration whilst there is momentum here.

The most successful league at the moment, the AFL should be a good example of how to expand well.

My labourer loves basketball, but he doesn't watch nbl. He wears a Heat singlet to work, so I tell him Perth have a import who was drafted by them and he is really good. I even show him the dunks on my phone, he loves it but still doesn't watch it. (Other factors I know)

Where as AFL has people watching their games who have no business watching their games, it's just for the derby. My wife goes for freo just because I go for West coast. It drives me nuts, she doesn't even care about footy but if freo beat WC I don't stop hearing about it for weeks. My mates family are rugby nuts but they watch the derby. The nbl will have Ennis guys and Sam youngs come through but what sustains has to go beyond that.

The Wildcats are my team though and I wouldn't suggest something that would cripple them.

"The Wildcats are my team though and I wouldn't suggest something that would cripple them."

Well you just have.

You know what it costs to play at Perth Arena?
Split the crowd between 2 teams, and even if you somehow magically add another 20% (which seems unlikely given there is already a drop-off from last year to this year) and you end up with 2 teams losing money in a hurry, rather than one actually managing to be profitable for the time being.

It's stupid.

Bring back Magic/Bullets.. then look at a second NZ ting... (The Kiwi swing would be the more economical way to do it) .. Then maybe try somewhere that hasn't got pro sport... Darwin? .. Tasmania?

That would bring it to 12... but then again, I am not liking to looks of whats happening in Townsville so it might bring it to 11. However, why did they fight to keep the team when only half of a semi reasonable crowd turns up?

I would have a hard time seeing how a second team would survive. It couldn't play at the Arena, the expenses are just too high for a start-up. Maybe for its derby games against the Wildcats. You would need to base it out of somewhere with some sort of regionalised identity, a Fremantle, Joondalup or Peel/Cockburn/Rockingham sort of deal.

I have a hard time seeing it happen.

Certainly, this is not something you would want the NBL to try and orchestrate. If someone can come up with a really good business plan and backers and presents a bid, you consider it, but it would have to be pretty convincing.

I suppose you do have to consider if having one massive, dominant Perth Wildcats is better or worse for the league than two middle-of-the-road Perth teams.

"The Wildcats have a brand to sell"..CORRECT!

But that didn't happen overnite.
And I bet lot of fingers got burnt along the way.

Dragons tried to buy a brand to compete in Melbourne but it was a disaster. They had plenty of funds in that Championship year.

Regarding the cost of playing an NBL game at the Arena,I was told by a very reliable source it is $70,000 per game. Happy to be corrected if wrong.

@Anon,

Wildcats posted a $1m profit last year.

LOL why does this conversation continue?

A second team in Perth... No.

Next?

Some of these comments are very curious-esque.

Mate, I'm not going to go article hunting for you, it really isn't that important.

No, it isn't a public company. What's your point, curious?

It was reported by the West Australian in the aftermath of the season, talking up how the move to Perth Arena and what it had done for their bottom line.

Could be this season currently operating and no mention of how big a profit.
Be Fair!!

There was an article that said they were heading for as much as $1 million profit, though I didnt see one at the end of the financial year which said what the final result was, not surprisingly.

the thing with Melbourne (as mentioned earlier) is that people hate the tigers. If you build a new team here, you won't lose any tigers supporters jumping ship to the new team, you'd be giving a really dormant supporter base a new team to jump in behind.

Plus Melbourne loves a good rivalry. Despite the failed second teams in Melb, they've always been able draw a crowd, virtually instantly, and I think actually benefit the tigers as well by getting more people into it and caring about the rivalry. Mates I have from the 90's who're old magic supporters want to come to a game (basically to boo the tigers), but don't have anyone they really care to support in the rest of the league. I don't think this is a model that Perth is used to/ready for yet though - maybe once the league itself is a bit bigger.

Are Melb Tigers still the only team with a Junior base that compete in their State Junior Rep League?
NBL Tigers are the tip of their pyramid that starts with the Juniors and are all registered under one banner. Used to be, anyway.

Do those Juniors give the NBL Tigers any financial support?

This year they've upped their off-court spend rather than rack up a major profit. Full venue hire from what I read on an an urban development forum was approximately $75k full venue hire, plus 17.5% of gate takings.