Wilson Sting
Years ago

Mal Cooper's halftime comments

Listening to Mal Cooper talking at halftime in the Sixers vs Taipans game. Basically saying it's ok to travel if there's no advantage. Thoughts?

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HoldenV8  
Years ago

IMO travel is travel regardless if there is an advantage

Reply #455101 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So 49 steps from the basecourt line to half court is ok?

Reply #455106 | Report this post


Titfortat  
Years ago

This is where we run into trouble. I understand where Mal is coming from and this has ALWAYS been the way it's been called at nbl level. The problem is, this and other little calls that are ignored so to speak at this level then filters done to the league below, then the one below that etc etc. we then have juniors that expect to get away with it and do, because young referees see it being let go at higher levels and so on.
So this actually leads to the game itself not being officiated or played correctly at lower levels due to this type of thing.

Reply #455108 | Report this post


alexkrad  
Years ago

We are going to call the fouls how they are written in the rule books.

Travel? Oh thats ok if theres no advantage.

When exactly is it an advantage to the defence if the offence travels?
When there is a steal directly after and a fast break maybe.
His example though was spin steps while shooting.

What a clown.

Reply #455118 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

For the purists out there NBL is in the entertainment game look at the States where basketball thrives. NBA is lax on the rules but NCAA and below adhere to it so don't see why Australia can't be the same. Relax, Mal Cooper is doing a good job unlike that clown they had previously who ruined the league as a spectacle.

Reply #455119 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The Above from Mal is right and get called thta way in big v seabl etc. He means the little non obvious non advantageous ones like a slight drag of the pivot when receiving the ball pretty much unguarded or when a player inadvertantly switches pivot before dribbling or takes three steps on a court end to end pass which has beaten all d to put up an awesome dunk. Happens all the time that this stuff gets let go for the good of the game. As for spin moves there is quite a lot of conjecture over whether this should be a travel or not however it can be done legally it should be noted.

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Annon  
Years ago

An, now that's why Jamar can travel, no advantage there. NOT

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Swagger  
Years ago

The only clown's here are the posters above wanting every little travel called.

It was this culture of umpiring that killed the league from an entertainment point of view the last few years.

SO frustrating in lower levels too when a spin move is an automatic travel according to refs. We should be allowing more go and making the game fun not making it an umpires paradise.

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proud  
Years ago

I was pleasantly delighted by his whole segment, I guess you lose a bit of perspective that referees actually understand the terminology of the game and are fans themselves and aren't basically police that are there to blow their whistle when they see something, so that was fun. He is quite knowledgable as you'd expect from someone who's seen thousands of games!

As for the travel call, all I can say is he is the man with the power and he is wielding it in a way that's trying to produce a far more attractive product. Will the crowd notice travels from both sides and scream blue murder when the opposition does it and whisper to the person next to them when we do it... YES because that's WHAT we DO!
...referees recognize this and expect it and they are well schooled in blocking it out!

As for juniors and referees trying to call games like the referees in NBL, surely that is ridiculous as juniors you don't have dunking and it isn't a spectacle thing (you pay to play and not get paid) so let the juniors adhere to the rules and hopefully learn early about not nitpicking if it will benefit both sides and its not seen to be showing bias

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Shows you how much the times have changed. Hollywood was always a stickler for that specific rule. Now it's OK. Sorry Mal it's not OK.

Reply #455171 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why is it not okay? Sorry Anon #455171 you aren't the boss to say it is or it isn't. Get some perspective of your place in the world.

Reply #455207 | Report this post


Ricey  
Years ago

If you travel and don't get called that's an advantage because you broke the rules and the other team doesn't get the ball as a result. This is why players and people in general hate referees.
If it's ok to travel sometimes, I guess it's ok to bitch slap a player without the ball because there isn't an advantage then in Mals eyes

Reply #455222 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bit like stepping on the sideline, sound rules are made to be black and white, you either touched the sideline or you didn't. Travelling should be treated no different.

Reply #455223 | Report this post


Annon  
Years ago

Travel is travel, 3 seconds is 3 seconds, line is a line, not negotiable. If you want to talk about College Hoops picking up the travels and then say NBL don't so it's more entertaining so people go.... How ridiculous, I can get a ticket for any NBL game but try getting a ticket for a US college game in a 30K Stadium that is pumping and a feeder to NBA. Not boring !!!!

Reply #455224 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I think proud got it spot on. The rest of you are clueless.

Reply #455227 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

Players dont bounce the ball like a metronome or take equidistant metronomic steps that are timed with the dribbles, which is why travel calls are not black and white, and you have to take this into account with the gather step which fiba rulebooks kinda get wrong.

Reply #455246 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

I particularly hate the travels at the top of the key when most people move their pivot foot. It just looks sloppy. Sure there's no advantage but like a few people have mentioned, where do they draw the line? If they're not going to call these travels then I think they should let go the times when players step on the line.

Reply #455256 | Report this post


Fm  
Years ago

Illuminating travel calls is a player and coach responsibility. Everyone has training sessions between games. Some coaches use this time to work on footwork others don't. Penalise the ones who think footwork isn't that important.

When players spend a 60 minute session on shooting without footwork v shooting where travel is permitted, the end result is better shooting accuracy. However you might walk to make the basket, but hey they ain't calling it here. Oh woops they are calling at the worlds

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paul  
Years ago

They let lots of incidentals travels go in international basketball, I dont see why we should punish fans by being any different.

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Ricey  
Years ago

It's not punishing fans though, I get pissed off with it not being called. So you're punishing fans then by not calling it. There's no grey area in travels, just like there's no grey area in a clear sky

Reply #455276 | Report this post


wildcats  
Years ago

He made some good points for example, if theres a break away dunk and no one around, if a player takes an extra step, who care, if he takes 3 steps or 2 steps he was going to score anyway.

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Ricey  
Years ago

And they Americans don't think they travel either at international level when it's called, they think it's athleticism and refs get it wrong (American commentators made this comment over and over again in lead to Olympics and at Olympics)

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Wildcats, if during that breakaway turnover that may result in a dunk the player accidently stood on the sideline would you want it called?????

Reply #455279 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

If calling them makes it less entertaining by creating more stops in play, and the rest of the world don't call them either, why would you call it? To make a few sticklers for the absolute rules happy? I don't think those people will keep the league flying unless theyre all very rich.

Reply #455286 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I laugh at these people who say a travel is a travel... its the rule.

The rule book states apply advantage/disadvantage to both violations and travels. Its called a feel for the game

Reply #455289 | Report this post


PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

If NBL referees had "feel for the game" in excess we wouldn't be having this discussion...

Reply #455315 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I can't believe you lot are in this thread still wanting every little travel called.

It's attitudes like this that are killing our game.

LAY OFF AND LET THE PLAYERS PLAY!

Reply #455325 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

LOL at the idea that at the pro level coaches are working on footwork during the week. Maybe in the old indi, no way in a team training.

It should be mandatory that refs have to attend team trainings to learn what coaches and players actually go thru. It's clear from that comment above and also other comments/calls we have received that a lot of refs really have no idea with what players and coaches are trying to achieve (the stupid calls you get when guarding screening actions come to mind).

The ref above who mentioned footwork at training is probably the type of person who will call a travel on a jump-stop because the ball was bounced half a milisecond early on that final step in their eyes. Didnt stop you from calling a travel despite us working on it all week.

Reply #455326 | Report this post


proud  
Years ago

Wow I have a fan, thanks anon. That's 2 people that have agreed with me on here this year, more than the whole of 2013... Did I waste a whole year?

But seriously, basketball is a very instinctive and reactive sport and that is why we can watch and feel that someone has shuffled his feet, so you appeal for a call, it's not, player puts a shot up, if it misses then you feel justice is served and if the shot drops then refs are normally kinder on the next play if they feel that a 50/50 call could be made.
That play alone isn't perfect but its enough to keep the fans happy enough and we aren't bitching that refs are trying to be too impactful on the contest.

Sad but true the best refs are ones that we don't notice so please don't make calls for the sake of making them

Reply #455327 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Three if you include Swagger's post Proud.

Agree with you 100%. It's just common sense (as was Mal's comments).

Seems there are refs on this thread more interested in doing what's best for their ego rather than what's best for the health of the game.

Reply #455330 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I don't mind that idea of having refs out to team trainings occasionally and because the advice could go both ways rather than one only. A ref in that situation would have more time after a play to explain why they might've called a situation one way or another.

Wonder if it'd be viewed like the Mafia hosting the cops for lunch though...

Reply #455334 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon 326 Here's an idea...dont practice travels at training and you wont get called for them during games!!!

You only have to watch warm ups to see players practicing travels.

Reply #455346 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

Now that we've sorted that out (or at least agreed to disagree??) can we get some sort of consistency on the continuation rule?

Reply #455347 | Report this post


Ricey  
Years ago

If you play professional basketball and travel, then you shouldn't play professionally. It's shit you do in under 12s, and shouldn't be in the pros at all. It should be called all the time to breed it back out of the players. People went to the games 20+ years ago when the game was far more pure, so why would that change. The points been made at college games are packed and highly entertaining, and shits called more often than not there, so how would it kill the game at a pro level?
If you travel with nobody around you on a fast break you don't deserve the points. Plain and simple. It's like that scene in Daddy Day Care when the kid comes out the toilet and says he missed, and Eddie Murphy sees crap all over the walls and ceiling, you wouldn't do that as an adult.

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paul  
Years ago

I think you would struggle to find a game of basketball anywhere where there aren't travels let go, and that was the case in the 80s when I first started playing and following the game.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Teams that train badly, i.e are allowed to excessively foul during scrimmages, travel into shots etc generally are the ones that bitch and moan the most at the Ref's when they get frequently called for those things.

Reply #455378 | Report this post


POP  
Years ago

Failure to call travels results in fouls being called on defenders because they have to [or at least are more likely to] resort to illegal tactics to regain their position.

Saw it in Adelaide Saturday night. Steven Weigh made a four-step move to the basket and the defender got called for a foul after Weigh's fourth step. Wasn't the only example of the phenomenon one, but this was a very clear one. If looked that way live, and was reinforced with the footwork crystal clear on the big screen c/o NBL.tv.

However, the issue is probably bigger in mid court than in the paint. Defender makes position to defend or 'direct' the player with the ball based on the established pivot foot only to have the player with the ball take off with the wrong [illegal] foot, often with a couple of steps before the ball is put on the floor, and the defender is immediately out of position and either called for a foul or forced to try to re-position to defend a player who has used illegal footwork to gain an unfair advantage.

Call what's there. At least then the official only has to decide on the footwork, not also decide whether or not the illegal footwork gave the attacking player [in the ref's opinion!] an unfair advantage. Odds are it did, or the rule wouldn't be there in the first place.

The officials repeatedly prove they struggle to make good basic decisions, so why burden them with deciding whether or not something gives a player an unfair advantage? Isn't that how we got into the problems with the un-called contact issue of recent years in the first place? And now we're heading down the same path again?!

Just let's play by the rules and call what's there, then everyone knows what's going on. An error of judgement is an error. An opinion [about advantage or not]is an opinion, and every opinion is valid and equal, whether its the opinion of a ref, coach, player or spectator, so introducing the 'advantage' issue is opening Pandora's box and increasing the risk of more friction between refs, coaches and players. It also provides a 'cop out' line for lack of referee concentration, poor positioning or just plain bad/poor decisions.

Do we really want to go there? I don't.

Reply #455384 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon #346....what the f**k are you going on about? A jump-stop isn't a travel.

Typical bulls**t attitude where you spend hours upon hours learning a legal move only to have an overzealous ref looking to blow their whistle as often as possible. They are also the type of ref who let other teams hack the s**t out of you and don't call nothing.

Was a great time a few years back, going to SASI learning jump-stops only to have refs call them travel Friday night. How can our elite pathway have one view of a move, and yet our refs have another view?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Anon 385, the point was so many teams practice illegal moves!

Each coach tells their team on defense to bump the cutter.....It's illegal! It gets called and the players says I'm allowed to do that...um know your not.

Reply #455386 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Youre allowed to bump the cutter if you have position and they come into your ground.

POP, the travels youre talking about arent the ones this discussion is about. If the offensive player gets an advantage over the defence with a travel it should be called.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

"Its called a feel for the game"

And a vast majority of referees have shown that they have none!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Paul, you're not allowed to bump the cutter at all, you're allowed to hold position if you've established it first and absorb contact, but drop the shoulder or initiate contact and its a block, end of story.

Teams that practice bad habits play with bad habits, practice how you play.

Reply #455390 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Have been frustrated at the call/no call on travel for some time now.

Officials need to call what is there IMHO, to the best of their ability and using common sense by taking into consideration the state of play, the level of competition and standard they have set for themselves during the game.

To be consistent on travel calls will only serve to improve everyone's enjoyment of the game, playing and watching, so I would like to see it simply called when it is a travel and when it needs to be called.

Under 10's that are still learning the concept need to be coached into it slowly and not be pulled up evey time, but at higher junior levels, adult level and the pro's, got to call it when it's there.

Having said that, I hate the tendancy some officials have to call almost all spin moves, some one has to put a stop to that...

Reply #455394 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

When you are holding ground or moving and maintaining position, if there is contact there is a bump and it isnt a defensive foul. You are talking about illegally bumping the cutter.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Your allowed to hold your ground Paul. There is a big difference between the two

Reply #455396 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

@Paul, look at it this way, in football you bump someone, which is legal if it is done correctly.

In basketball you cannot bump, you can take some contact from the offense by standing your ground, but I cannot find anywhere where in basketball the defense can actually bump an offensive player.

Or at least that is what I see the rules are supposed to have us believe...

The worst is when a player gets the ball and is bumped by a defender, only to lose balance and get called for a travel, that one sucks!!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Paul, incidental/accidental contact aside you have to establish a LEGAL defensive position before contact or its a BLOCK!!!
If you have and the offense crashes through you its an offensive foul.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

If there's 2 things i've learned from all the threads and discussions both on forums and face to face over the years about issues around calling of the game its:

1)Basketball is a very technical game rule wise and

2) MOST people don't know the rules very well, that includes coaches and players.

If people better understood the rules i believe there would be far less complaining.

Reply #455403 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

To the people above mentioning how NCAA is popular and they call travels by the rulebook so the NBL should as well don't get it. College ball is an extension of juniors in the US, basically for ages 19-23. It has a long tradition and they were never desperate like the pros/NBA to gain relevancy with the public.

Remember the NBA was a fringe league 30yrs ago and nearly went bankrupt before it boomed. Part of its success now is because it adjusted and made the game more entertaining hence leniency on travels amongst other things. NBL mirrors the NBA situation, not college which is their elite juniors equivalent to our top age juniors u20s etc.

The point is junior and professional leagues are in a different business and it's a necessary evil in a pro league.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

LOL at some of the heros complaining about travels. The fact is the incidental ones should not be called. There was a massive meltdown especially from Westover and McPeake when tiny travels were getting called because the coaches in their POE asked for everyone to be picked up then bitched after when lost about it wrecking the game or costing them the game.

As for the moves and non nbl which is a show mind you in part and not a fiba tournament etc some of those moves allow massive advantage, everyone see their is massive advantage and go beserk when they are not called. Consequently the ref gets abused for calling them by the other team.

Like to also say to the clown that bitches about the refs calling tiny travels allowing you then to have the shit hacked out of you that you're a mong and with attitudes like that you probably never go far on a court.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

If it was game 3 of the championship series and James Ennis took three blatant steps on his way to a buzzer beating/game winning dunk, all the posters above who say they agree with Mal and like seeing the travel rule relaxed would be complaining so much saying it cost the opposing team the championship.

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Ricey  
Years ago

Let's make it simple. The argument really is about advantage/disadvantage.
If you travel and nobody is around you, it's an advantage to you still. You don't lose the ball to the other team as you should, which could create 2 or more points. You've been given a green light to be lazy really, and if that's not an advantage then what the hell is?
Just like 3 seconds. If you are in the key for more than 4 seconds (maybe allow a grace period of a second to get out) then you are creating an advantage for your team regardless if you get the ball or not because the defence has to react accordingly to the played camping in the key.

Reply #455488 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Why I am being insulted for wanting a ref calling every single travel to call fouls when they're there?

So it's great to call travels but you're going to let fouls go as there is no advantage? Good logic buddy.

And I've done quite alright in basketball thank you but that shouldn't add or detract from the argument.

Reply #455491 | Report this post


Annon  
Years ago

Since when do you listen to people saying they lost because they didn't play by the rules, the ump picked them up for breaking the rules..... Here's a thought...l. Play by the rules..... It's the mentality that it's the policemans fault that I got caught speeding and drink driving. You know it's illegal but you commit until you get caught. The majority will change if they get caught often enough... Those that don't end up hurting some one else, or in the case of the Ball continue at the expense of the other team. With drink driving it's the potential loss of life, Ball, loss of a game.....l

Just play by the rules and stop making those who do the right thing or expect it think that they have it wrong..., They don't... A rule which is so simple needs no interpretation, it's a rule... Comparing NBL to NBA needing travel to make it entertaining !!! Pretty sad. I love watching College Ball and so do the 35k watching it courtside. Travels getting picked up make it fair and you get to see the true champion team and the skill and smarts of the game and players gain respect..... Euro all is boring and their is loads of travels. Made no difference in my eyes.

Start 14/15 season with a statement that travels will be called. Call them in the first few games and it will stop. Those who don't need rehab.... Done..

Reply #455513 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It really is all about the refs....just ask them.

Reply #455515 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Everyone has missed the point of his statement. He isnt talking about a travel that beats a defender, or changing your pivot foot in the paint to get a shot off or traveling out of a double team. He is talking about a plyer standing outside the 3 point line with no defender on him who changes or shuffles a pivot. He doesnt pass, he doesnt dribble he is still holing the ball and is in exactly the same spot. They are the ones he doesnt want called. It's not about calling the rules as they are rules its about understanding the game needs flow. No one wants the game stopped for negligible stuff.

At a FIBA tournament if you called the above example a travel you might as well pack your bags and go home because you wont get another game.

Reply #455544 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

I agree with Annon. Call the rules as they stand. If you call it, they will change, we saw that at the start of this season (until the refs stopped calling it, anyway).

If the league wants a more entertaining package, introduce (ironic, I know!) some rules like clear-path-to-the-basket to promote exciting finishes in the open court.

Reply #455554 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No anon - we get it. We know what he is talking about and we don't agree with it. If you call the first couple of travels - players will adjust and stop doing it, so it won't be the stop-start quagmire you think it will.
As for your FIBA tournament quip - it just proves that referees (and thier admin) is in horrible shape and are a detriment to the game.

Reply #455570 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"If you travel and nobody is around you, it's an advantage to you still. "

I hope youre not a ref Ricey because you've completely misinterpreted the advantage/disadvantage rule.

Reply #455573 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

+ 1 Paul....and so has most of the thread

Reply #455574 | Report this post


POP  
Years ago

I acknowledge 'advantage' is mentioned in the rule book but I don't see the 'advantage/disadvantage rule' [if it is actually there in those terms, which I sincerely hope it isn't] as a 'rule'. It points, at best, to interpretation. Any decision made on the basis of 'advantage' is most certainly an opinion, which is where we strike the problem; not only because an opinion is always subjective but because it burdens the official with having to make a 'thought through' decision - develop an opinion - rather than making a simple, quick, reactive call based on what he or she has seen.

Simplest is best ... and also clearest and least likely to cause confusion and angst, in this environment.

Reply #455595 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"LOL at some of the heros complaining about travels. The fact is the incidental ones should not be called. There was a massive meltdown especially from Westover and McPeake when tiny travels were getting called because the coaches in their POE asked for everyone to be picked up then bitched after when lost about it wrecking the game or costing them the game."

Yep yet a lot on here want the issue revisited again. Finally the hack a ball has been eliminated and they still aren't happy and have turned to wanting minor travels called. It's baffling to me.

Reply #455603 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Listen, let's just go back to calling ALL contact as a foul. Let's remove the dribble because that is to hard to officiate and lets call it fucking netball!!!

Reply #455606 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

"If the league wants a more entertaining package, introduce (ironic, I know!) some rules like clear-path-to-the-basket to promote exciting finishes in the open court."

That rule already exists.

Reply #455607 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

hmmm men's netball. The sad thing is it would become more popular than bball as aussies love commonwealth sports with hardly any international competitors so it's easy to be #1 in the world and feel superior.

Reply #455612 | Report this post


Annon  
Years ago

606 take a chill pill..... Everyone is talking about obvious travels 1,2, 3 travel, no established pivot foot, pivot switch..... Not a simple foot drag at speed.... Going off about might as well do this then and not do this sounds to me like you need some relaxation. Stick to the subject. No one has mentioned the difficulty interpreting fouls in play. Travel is completely different.

Reply #455624 | Report this post


Annon  
Years ago

606 take a chill pill..... Everyone is talking about obvious travels 1,2, 3 travel, no established pivot foot, pivot switch..... Not a simple foot drag at speed.... Going off about might as well do this then and not do this sounds to me like you need some relaxation. Stick to the subject. No one has mentioned the difficulty interpreting fouls in play. Travel is completely different.

Reply #455625 | Report this post




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