steve
Years ago

Standard of Refereeing in Victoria

Over the last few weeks i have noticed that basketball in Victoria is now starting to look like a poorly organised and managed competion. Firstly it has become increasingly obvious that the the gene pool of truely qualified refs at youth league level is very,very shallow. I have witnessed refs who, 1: believe that game is about themselves. 2: have no idea what "Game Management" from a ref's perpective is or should be. 3: what the term "consistant" means. 4: where should a ref be,(court position) to make a call,(close enough to actually see or hear), Not at Half Court Guessing a call under the basket. 5: being actually able to repeat what was supposedly said before making a blatantly incorrect Tech Foul call.
6:Reffing a game based purely on merit, not on ref bias towards a paticular team or coach.
Secondly due to extremely poor fixturing we have a situation where young men and women ranging in age from 16 to 23, are forced to played 2 to 3 games of high level basketball each and every weekend. These young athletes often have school, jobs and regular training and are already placing often high levels of stress on soft tissue, tendons and over worked muscles, Is This Risk Worth It, NO!! wake up, we will only subject these young people to life long debilitating muscular and joint problems in later life. Someone at BV needs to wake up and think!

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observer  
Years ago

on the number of games played by juniors in a day/wkend, in NSW 2 games on a sunday , or 4 over a sat/sun is the normal fixture for country junior players at rep level.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Be happy you don't have to put up with BSA refs! Every Easter and state champs the Vic refs come over and put our umpires to shame big time! All the coaches here love the Vic refs. All the umpires here think the game is about themselves. The area I think that sets them apart is communication. BSA refs don't have the ability to communicate (unless you call giving tech fouls communicating). I generally find Vic refs are pretty good with that.

In before all the whinging BSA refs arc up

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One wonders  
Years ago

Referee Development Officer Mike Gibson says "It's not the referees job to tell a player what they did wrong its the coaches"

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Coaches don't know if the refs can't communicate with them either! Mike Gibson is a muppet

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Kinda hard as a coach when refs tell you rules that don't exist or don't even know the rules. You then try explaining to them so they throw a tech.

They are not accountable at all and there's no progress (in fact they're worse).

It's nott the coaches job to explain the many errors of the refs but clearly the right people aren't

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Mick  
Years ago

I've also noticed amateur players don't hit a very high field goal percentage and turn the ball over a lot compared with their NBA counterparts...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

If I had a dollar for every time I heard a coach claim a rule is different to how it was called or disputed the accuracy of a rule I'd be a millionaire.

VERY few coaches know all the rules and even less know how they're to be assessed and enforced.

Arguing rules with a ref is almost as dumb as the classic line you hear on a Friday night "do you know who I am"? Which usually spews from the mouth of a gumby Div 2 or aspiring NITP coach who thinks he's on a fast track to the NBA.

And no I'm not a Ref I'm a Snr Men's Coach.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

No I've been told incorrect rules actually . For example not counting a shot that went in cause the ball didn't go through the net before the shot clock went off. The ref was telling me it doesn't matter when it leaves the players hand, it's when it goes through the net.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The number of coaches, players and spectators who keep screaming "cross court" during games when it's not is absolutely horrifying, what makes it worse is the amount who don't correct themselves and still think it's CC.
This proves to me beyond doubt most don't know even the main rule interpretations let alone more technical rules.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Can't believe someone thinks the refs from Vic were great this year, yes if you zone up in 12's and camp in the key. yes if you like to charge through players and push off and shall I go on !!!... I thought the reffing from Vic this year was not up to par. If you clean up the court by establishing early what you will call then it sets the tone for the game. Then we can truly see talent and teamwork shine through. I thought I was at School basketball most of the weekend and very disappointed after great reffing on Thurs only to find it was short lived.. And no not sore loser as did very well thank you very much, but watched other games too that got out of hand and did not reflex the abilities of the teams.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Can't believe someone thinks the refs from Vic were great this year, yes if you zone up in 12's and camp in the key. yes if you like to charge through players and push off and shall I go on !!!... I thought the reffing from Vic this year was not up to par. If you clean up the court by establishing early what you will call then it sets the tone for the game. Then we can truly see talent and teamwork shine through. I thought I was at School basketball most of the weekend and very disappointed after great reffing on Thurs only to find it was short lived.. And no not sore loser as did very well thank you very much, but watched other games too that got out of hand and did not reflex the abilities of the teams.

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yeah boy  
Years ago

@ Observer - Vic kids play 12 months of the year almost - your comment is not revelvant to Steve's points.

Big V refs are a disgrace. They are bias, they have vendetta's, they do not like to be questioned, if you catch them out they T you up. I'm waiting for the day when a coach loses their cool and jobs one of the smart arses in the gob. Trust me the day will come - they think because of their stripes they have no accountability.

Refs should be made to answer and justify every T foul they hand out. Watch the buggers crawl under their rocks if this was to happen.

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Anon  
Years ago

Yes I agree with the post above - It is not about the referees. I think they think that it is. This is backed up by the BIG V website where there are often photographers sent to games. These action photos are then loaded onto the web site for viewing. Great idea no problems here - however - in every group of photos there are a number of "referee action portraits". Why? Who cares? the best referees are not noticed - why do they have a number of their photos loaded in amongst action shots of the players. Nobody looks at the photos to see a referee. It's things like this that get referees to believe that the game is about them and they are starting to believe this. People may argue that they are trying to promote referees so as to encorage youngsters to become referees. This is rubbish - I have played the game for 44 years and never once had a game cancelled because there were not enough referees.
It's time that the theatrics and the desire for the referees to have an impact on games stops. I am certain that many referees "get off" on the adrenalin rush that they get from having the power to decide the outcome of a close exciting game - to the point where they sub-consciously make calls that create close games down the stretch.
Oh - and as for the three second rule - either go back to the old interpretation which was much more black and white - or give up on that call forever. Referess just don't call that rule anymore - I know coaches who instruct their players to stay in the key until the call comes. The call never comes. Wake up!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

^^^ Anon, time to give the game away dude, you're too old, bitter and twisted.

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Anon  
Years ago

Typical response - don't address any of the issues that people put forward - just bag the person who expresses them. It's people like you who dont' admit that there are issues who contribute to the problem.
Face it - ask around - find out for yourself - if you ask questions you will find out that there is an enormous under current of concern as to the poor standard of referee ability and behaviour!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

No issues to address, everyone knows its about constant improvement, its just crusty old morons like you only see things one way. :-)

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Anon  
Years ago

it's "crusty old morons" like me who can actually compare the old with the new and make a valid comparison. You have no right to comment because you have no idea of the past. At least I have experienced both. You talk crap like "constant improvement" - in reality it is "constant regression" - but you wouldn't know that because you are probably one of the current refs that all on this forum are talking about. - Obviously I touched a nerve.

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anon  
Years ago

Arrogance and sensitive to criticism.

80% of big v refs suffer from these two personality traits. They pair up and feed off each other's ego. I know for a fact they target players and coaches.

I am a long standing ref of 20+ years. I am embarassed at the way games are being called. I sometimes shudder at the way some make quick calls without giving enough time to evaluate the situation. They leave themselves way open to criticism.
When a coach or player reacts they take it personally and you can bet they will punish the individual with a Tech or bad no calls.
I like the suggestion that every T handed out must be explained to a central source.
That way bad behavior from all angles can be assessed and we poor refs who try to do the right thing don't get labeled with the quick draw gun slingers.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I had a ref tell me in a grand final last year that we were lucky to have the him and the other ref for the game.

Um how about you're lucky to be reffing a div 1 high standard grand final!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

^^^Coming from an experienced ref, this comment is very refreshing!

Their arrogance, inability to take criticism and inability to communicate is killing basketball as a sport in this country.

Mike Gibson is a complete flog bag with his "It's not our job" bullshit. It's EVERYONE'S job! If you are involved in basketball it's the job of all of us to improve all aspects of the game. Refereeing is the one area that has not improved, and the sooner they stop trying to defend their pathetic performances, the sooner they can look at how to fix it.

As a former high-level player (BIG V) I am astounded at the way the game is being called these days. Referees used to understand that players can become emotional due to the fact that basketball is a highly emotional game. You CAN NOT take that away from the game no matter how much you try. As long as referees keep trying to "take the emotion out of the game", it's futile. That's why I quit the game a few years ago. That's why many senior domestic leagues are now struggling with participation numbers dwindling. I can no longer justify paying $200-$300+ per season to be told by 16 year old kids with attitude problems that I don't know what I'm talking about.

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Anon  
Years ago

475624 - do you still think there are no issues to address - even "crusty old moron" referess are concerned with the current poor standard of refereeing today!

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Mark Kelly  
Years ago

I am old school,but seriously do referees have to high 5 each other at timeouts,and some of the stuck up younger ones feel it not necessary to introduce themselves prior to a game,it may be a result of technology where people are loosing the art of communication,accountability is the biggest issue and if they turn up and not see a senior supivisor it's like a green light to have a "look at me " show,perhaps a pre season BBQ where all coaches and officials can meet in a casual atmosphere,have a bit of Q and A time,get to know a few first names,and make it that each coach and referee has to come away from this knowing a minimum of 5 first names of people they have just met might help break down a few barriers

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Bear  
Years ago

Wow, not sure if I want to buy into this debate, however as someone who has coached a lot of junior hoops and watched the changes in the game over the past few years I guess I can only give my own view.

The main issue here appears to be frustration!

Caused by many things, yes inconsistency, lack of communication, respect issues, perceptions, arrogance and maybe egos along the way, not to mention a plain lack of understanding and will to cooperate.

I have seen some socking officiating, not too much of that, but the occasional shocker.

More often I see shocking coaching reactions, persistent and flagrant action and reaction actually, but on the side of the officials it is usually the opposite until pushed too far, then the 'T' occurs.

There is no simple answer to the OP's situation, I guess we can all have a bad day, but we can't label a standard for officiating when there are so many different standards of competition play out there.

Take it for granted that the VBRA are aware and taking steps to try and consult with coaches at the highest level possible to try and find come common ground.

Also, let's just take a deep breath and try to smile at each other more during games, this I have found can really help defuse some of the tension and frustration, cheers and stay frosty...

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Bear  
Years ago

... some common ground ...

sorry!

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anon  
Years ago

Once again the big v ceo has come out with a threatening memo about comments made on social media. Free speech as long as it's factual and not disparaging will not stand up to threats of suspension.
Julie how about you get focused on the real issues - REFEREE game management is the SOLE reason for why there is so much vitriolic comment.
Referee development in managing emotions/conflict would be a good starting point.
Like your last email about coach/player behavior all you have achieved is to piss people off even more.
You can be the champion of this cultural change cause - but please refrain from threatening and defensive emails .
You will have no respect if you continue in this vain.

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