iminyonek
Years ago

referees are human how can we help them to improve

what can we do to help referees to improve?

they are in a chaotic fluid environment that gets quite emotionally charged at times and at times irrational

It would be great if we can make them feel better about themselves, EARN respect and GIVE respect to the players and coaches

to be accountable for the quality of the performance that they deliver on each and every game

to become front line CUSTOMER SERVICE providers

How can this be done - please be constructive

Topic #34966 | Report this topic


Coeezy  
Years ago

I've played my fair share of social games lately and I find they tend to react better when you ask them questions without the emotion that some other players emit when "talking" to the refs about calls or non-calls made.

I don't mind if refs are confident of a call and I know they're wrong. I just ask for the reason for the call and explain why I think/know (as a former ref)it's the wrong call and they always seem to be fine for the rest of the game. We are human and we all mistakes.

Once somebody turns it into a shouting match, that's when the refs lose their confidence to make good calls and that's when everybody (the players, coaches, refs) end up losing out.

In the end, it is just a game. A great game and my favourite, but still just a game.

Reply #484224 | Report this post


The Solution  
Years ago

One problem is the 2 refs not one. They need to be taught how to bounce of each other and communicate points of focus, one of the biggest issue is allowable contact and consistency at each end - sure refs change lead and trail but they both manage contact differently. If they can be more consistent together then you will see calmer teams.

Reply #484231 | Report this post


Statsheet Stuffer  
Years ago

I've watched my fair share of ball games and I can argue that refs are, in fact, not human.

Reply #484235 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hahaha

Refs are not accountable so attitudes will not change.

They think it's about them not the players. They are rude and tell you rules that are incorrect. Then the court supervisors back them up with these wrong calls. It's never going to change.

Reply #484237 | Report this post


basketball19932  
Years ago

coming from a ref myself here are some points:

agree never yell at a ref otherwise we will never answer you
i dont mind some question but if you keep asking after every call that gets really annoying.
after the game if the coaches or people have time explain to them what they did wrong and what they did really well a good thing that refs like here is "you guys did a good job on that game"
and most of all just be nice because we are willing to work well just some refs should not be ref

Reply #484238 | Report this post


still laughing  
Years ago

The BSA refs are all caught up in their own self importance and will not improve whilst the current coaching coordinator enables and encourages mediocrity.

Even the court supervisors are jumped up,arrogant and unapproachable.
They would not have a clue about the rules, conflict resolution or relationship building.

It's all about them, princess's all of them.

Reply #484239 | Report this post


the tonight show  
Years ago

never have kids younger than the players ref them.

Reply #484243 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The problem is the current "god complex" that 9 out of 10 BSA refs display. All about them, not the athletes. They have a little bit of power and feel the need to flex their proverbial muscle.

There are a few EXCELLENT BSA refs out there. They are the ones that know they are meant to be seen not heard, and they are supposed to facilitate the game, not control the game. They communicate effectively, admit when they didn't see something instead of making something up, and are aproachable.

Unfortunately there seems to be a "culture" surrounding the Friday night refs, it's all about them

Reply #484246 | Report this post


Spinner  
Years ago

Particularly the case in District Basketball, the only people at the stadium being paid and yet they are not held accountable for their performance or lack thereof.

The players actually pay to play, the parents pay to watch, the coach doesn't get paid, the team manager does it for nothing, the door person and canteen staff are probably volunteers and the refs are only there to fuel their ego and put their hands out for money. This ISN'T the case in ALL situations, but in the majority of stadiums, this is the case. As stated in other posts, there are some very good refs who are let down by others who are there to make up numbers.

Reply #484253 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I just want to see a ref with the whistle in their mouth or hand near their mouth whistle in hand ready to blow it. Hanging round your neck leads to lazy reffing and delayed calls...….. Be prepared at least...

Reply #484260 | Report this post


Happy Days  
Years ago

Need to be able to smile and have a laugh. If you stuffed up admit it and you'll gain respect very quickly.

Reply #484272 | Report this post


razor  
Years ago

Maybe some coaches and parents are human how can we help them to improve? Take a trip to a game where you have no vested interest & consider whether you'd like your children exposed to the often offensive & ignorant behaviour directed towards the referees. Yes a lot of developing referees make mistakes but you don't see the young players get abused for their bad shots, passes, violations and contact oh sorry yes some parents will abuse that too.
And before you jump on the fact that they're paid, yes but if money was all they were after they'd make much more per hour at Maccas or even at the stadium canteen where or as a CSO at the door(even the former "doorkeepers" were not volunteers).
And ask a referee if they're accountable, no they're not judged every game but are regularly observed, evaluated and coached.

Reply #484289 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Razor - regularly observed, coached and evaluated is laughable. Most court suprvisors are on their phones or chatting or sitting away from the court. I have only ever known 1 court supervisor who spends an entire session truly observing on his feet moving court to court advising and addressing issues throughout games, teaching and never a mobile in sight. He is not worried about being liked or offending b you g or
old refs with attitude or laziness. He is there to teach and a credit to his age which is early 20's. He can be bothered and there for all the right reasons. When he is around the quality of games and skills shines and basketball is back to being basketball and not a hybrid of footy and volleyball. Funny enough there is no or little ref abuse and players and coaches seem happier when they see action being taken. All be ause 1 person met their job requirements. They are their for work and nothing else and to do it well...... No I am not related or from the same club, just appreciate what someone who does their job well can achieve as they stand the dominos up rather than knock them down.

Reply #484298 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Funny because educating referees is no longer the role of a Court Supervisor.

As usual no one actually knows what they're talking about, just on here being high and mighty talking crap.

Reply #484314 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Interesting timing with this thread. I have in the past played at the second highest level in the country (SEABL and Big V) and for the last year or so have been playing only at a social level to hang out with mates/keep fit/have fun etc..

I find the standard of refereeing equally as appalling as the behaviour and lack of sportsmanship shown by many so called "adults" playing in these leagues. As someone who can obviously play, I am targeted by the opposition physically, with elbows, cheap shots and literally punches being thrown.

Referees, usually 16-18 year old kids don't offer any protection. In fact, they exacerbate the situation by telling someone who is covered in bruises, scratches, corked legs and arms etc. to stop whinging and just play. This is straight out dangerous, and if referees don't act on the thugs that are destroying our game, things will get out of control. This is a direct result of their laziness, arrogance, apathy and severe lack of basketball awareness and understanding. The worst of the social basketball refereeing standards I've experienced would be Knox and Waverley. Waverley has a "sin-bin" rule where a technical foul results in 5 minutes on the bench. This is a joke of a rule when a team has 5 players. Sandringham, Dandenong and Nunawading are slightly better, but all have examples of refs who just have a bad attitude.

I've made a decision to quit all forms of basketball because of continual decline of referee standards and the quite severe disregard for peoples' physical wellbeing shown by players. I know many good players and good people to have recently made the same decision. This has been a very tough call to make, as this is the game I love. I am just not willing to risk serious injury at the hands of some moron thug who can't understand the meaning of sportsmanship and decency. If referees took a stand against thugs and unsportsmanlike behaviour, I might reconsider in future.

Reply #484388 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

Knox refs are taught from day 1 to be arrogant rude and disrespectful to players and coaches. How do I know I ref at Knox.
Young refs get told by supervisors prior to a game which player or coach to target to get them sucked in.
Good old commonsense and game management is not taught.
Kbinc wonder why domestic teams hate playing at Knox.
No accountability and arrogance is one thing but targeting people they don't like is unacceptable.

Reply #484428 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Domestic ball is where it all begins. Respect and understanding while applying common sense and a mature level head is not easy at the best of items.

All domestic games run on tight schedules, usually with 5 minutes or less between games to organise any pre game rituals. Just to get players to warm up is a challenge, what with parents, players and officials all wanting to chat at the end of one game while two other teams are vying for space and any opportunity to get a few shots up before their game begins.

Here are some of the key things I think we miss in this short space of time:

Coaches and officials don't get to have a chat beforehand, the first actual contact could be a disputed decision.

Everyone is rushed and sometimes the game clock starts before players are ready, just to fit games into tight time slots, but officials will cop a glance from parents paying for a full game unfairly.

There is little to no interaction, a lack of people skills being taught or learnt, no chance to develop that customer service the OP has referred to because of an environment born out of an attitude of profit before people!

Associations must accept responsibility to develop the correct culture the sport deserves, because we all know the rules and codes of conduct are there, but how can they be applied in such difficult conditions and circumstances that only breed contempt and conflict...?

Reply #484434 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

...times... Not items, bugger iPads!

Reply #484435 | Report this post


Ref advocate  
Years ago

1. Make sure they get out of the right side of bed
2. If they are >18 that they have had a root recently
3. If they <18 they have to speak to younger siblings and adults with respect
4. Turn a blind eye to "ugly parents"
5. Free Chocolate
6. Free parking (at least not in the mud/marion)
7. Make sure they have children themselves
8. Make sure they support Crows
9. Make sure they support Port
10. Make sure they don't read hoops SA

Reply #484445 | Report this post


Solid Moves  
Years ago

I find most refs try their best, but a lack of training, support and being held accountable after a less than ideal game lets them down. If someone looks generally out of their depth then I can forgive their mistakes because they were most likely dragged in at the last minute so we could have our game. It's well known that there is a shortage of more mature referees.

However.. There are two refs in the SEABL who think they're above the game and are quite rude, arrogant and downright disrespectful to the players, coaches and officials. It's referees like this that unfortunatley get in the ear of others and turn them into self centered spotlight hunters.

I think there needs to be a fair few $$ put into development and having the right people teaching from the beginning because like anon above with the Knox example, there can be some absolute idiots teaching the future generation.

Reply #484465 | Report this post


Anon  
Years ago

I wonder if these Seabl refs are from Knox?

Reply #484488 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

My basketball career:

Player from 1976-1994
Ref from 1994-1999
Coach from 2000-present

All of the above at all levels of the game up to ABA.

So after 38 years in the game and having been on both sides of the whistle all I can say in regards to how we can help refs....we can't. It's too bloody hard a job and there are too many variables. All we can hope for is they get educated as well as possible and put in some effort. You'll get good refs and bad and funnily enough both types will manage to make good calls and bad.

As a coach now my players are told they're allowed to talk to refs twice in a game. Saying "good luck" before the game and "Thanks" afterwards while shaking hands. There's no point to any other conversation. As a rule I go into a game expecting the refs will suck and if it's better than that it's a bonus.

Reply #484501 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Similar experience to Above.

At the end of the day the more people think about it and focus on it the worse you'll see things.

I learned long ago to worry about the things i can control, and try to forget about the things i can't.

Go into every game accepting the Ref's will make mistakes BUT trying to build rapport before the game to start off on a good footing and from there just Coach.

Players are told to leave them alone, Capt is told they can talk to refs and that's it.

Too many people become paralyzed with "hate" towards the refs during a game and forget what their primary role is: To coach or play.

I've seen games lost because a coach or players lost focus and became distracted with arguing, this is at SEABL level.

Reply #484502 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

The best assistant coach is one who can take over for a few moments while the coach sits down to cool off, not the one who just agrees with him that the ref is wrong and againt him all the time.

That however requires a coach who can accept being told to cool down when the signs are there to everyone else that he is about to get a tech because of his actions or frustrations.

The ref probably doesn't even see or understand any of this as he/she is hopefully focused on the game, all they see is an upset coach that they don't want to talk to and nothing good will come from that interaction anyway...

Reply #484508 | Report this post


red 31  
Years ago

Agree with Anon , Knox are the worst and not getting any better.

Reply #724467 | Report this post




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