brett
Years ago

The End of the Crocs

Today is the beginning of the end for townsville in my eyes. Its ok to downgrade to a smaller venue but if can't even half fill a 2,500 capacity rsl stadium on opening weekend you're in trouble. Nor to mention no team logo or sponsor on the court. The court I play B grade on a monday is more impressive. For once NBL.TV's coverage isn't the worst looking part of the game.

Topic #35646 | Report this topic


Train  
Years ago

I agree . The stadium is almost empty.

Reply #497742 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

It doesn't even look half full.

Reply #497747 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Attendance - 1436. That's just appalling.

Reply #497754 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Kick them out of the comp and bring in Brisbane.

Reply #497755 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The new board have no idea

Reply #497762 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

To be fair, a lot of people would have been watching the cars go around in circles on TV this weekend.

Reply #497772 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

You can't just blame the 'new board' though.

At the end of the day, the 'fans'/basketball public in TVL should take some of the blame.

The board can only do so much with a shoestring budget.

It does not make for good reading though.

Reply #497818 | Report this post


Ganymede 86  
Years ago

As soon as they got rid of Homicide that was beginning of the end.

Reply #497819 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

still a much higher percentage per capita attendance than melbourne

Reply #497823 | Report this post


NBL Fan  
Years ago

I don't understand how they can get 3000 to each game for most of last year and now only get 1,400. I guess basketball has gone out of fashion in TSV and also the high ticket prices have contributed.

Reply #497824 | Report this post


Wildcat Fan  
Years ago

Really hate to say it, as I've always respected the Crocs in the past, and think they have a great franchise - or at least did - but they are fast becoming a club that is just there to make up the numbers. If the league didn't look thin enough as it is with just 8 teams, then there wouldn't be much concern to keep them around.

With the league improving everywhere else, and expansion on the horizon, the Crocs will probably still be around, but won't add anything to the comp other than being just another club for other teams to compete against and provide fans another opponent to watch when they travel.

It does seem like Townsville people have given up on the Crocs, which is a great shame. Lets hope they can improve their attendances to at least 2,000 going forward.

Reply #497825 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

@NBL Fan:

You would still be getting those numbers if you were at TEC.

People don't want to go to RSL stadium.

Ticket prices are absolutely ridiculous to be playing in a venue like that.

Reply #497831 | Report this post


KingJames  
Years ago

What are the ticket prices?

Reply #497838 | Report this post


Doggy  
Years ago

Keep positive guys, crocs fans have faith, have a great team with plenty of firepower. They will work harder than ever this week, and come out firing next week, I will always support the crocs and try to get to the games when I can. Go crocs Go!!!

Reply #497842 | Report this post


HoldenV8  
Years ago

Have to agree with @Wildcat Fan. This is probably the beginning of the end for the Crocs unfortunately.

A team or teams out of Brisbane, Canberra, Hobart (maybe) would be good for this league. The Townsville Fire look like they get more to games than the Crocs did today.

Whatever happened to the days when the TEC was sold out for every game? I remember seeing a number of games in the late 90's with the place packed. How times have changed.....

Reply #497844 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Its just sad to watch. I used to love to hate the Crocs, as it was a feral and loud and intimidating environment to play at up there. They had some stacked teams with Rose, Rillie, Mackinnon etc they never seemed to have issues recruiting stars, now I just feel sorry for them. Then again I felt the same about the Taipans a few seasons back and now they are dominating again so who knows, but really if the league had enough teams id say rid themselves of this RSL playing team. Not a good look for the league. And league sustainability is more important at this stage than a woeful club playing up north in front of no one.

Reply #497848 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The Crocodile must remain a protected species to survive!

Reply #497851 | Report this post


KET  
Years ago

still a much higher percentage per capita attendance than melbourne


That doesn't change the fact that 1,400 is outright horrible for an NBL team. Hate to say it but, I think the Crocs won't last after this year. Very disappointing, the Crocs have a good history, particularly at TEC.

Reply #497857 | Report this post


Tornado  
Years ago

The League knows the Crocs are skating on thin ice hence why they are forcing expansion next season.

Reply #497862 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

I don't think the league would be talking about 16 teams if they expected to lose one or two along the way. They'd be speaking of 10 or 12.

It might be that the strategy instead is to develop a league that can support big market teams that get a majority of TV games, and regional teams that have ways of staying competitive despite smaller stadiums and meagre crowds.

More teams means more job opportunities and eyeballs and a greater talent disparity from your stars to your next tiers - that makes for big names standing out, stats to spruik and so on. It also means games potentially most nights of the week as you see in the NBA.


To those in Townsville, is this a case in breaking continuity? If you give people a chance not to renew their season tickets or stop coming to games regularly, they will. The greatest competition is not from other teams and often not other sports but from apathy.

Reply #497865 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Well they're getting bankrolled by United and Perth right?

Reply #497867 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

It is a great shame. But with all due respect, let's not keep them on longer than we have to/delay the inevitable.

The league has a clear direction it wants to head in.

The league will only ever be as strong as its weakest link.

Reply #497868 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

On the money Isaac.

Reply #497870 | Report this post


DJ  
Years ago

Was it just me or did all the courts seem very plain - lack of advertising this season, is this an NBL directive?

Reply #497894 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I doubt it the Melbourne floor had a lot of advertising.

I agree with others it would be good to see Townsville's licence going to Brisbane next season. They can't keep holding onto the Crocs when they're going backwards with the move to a much smaller venue and even then it looked half empty.

The Crocs will fall away soon anyway which will mean more bad press for the NBL and will overshadow Brisbane's return so just bite the bullet at the end of the season.

Reply #497934 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Isaac across all the details as usual. This would seemingly be the strategy. NBA has grown, and lives on the star profile - how often do you see their promotion of a game as Lebron v Kobe etc.

Spread the talent without reducing the overall standard too severely, more markets (even small ones), bigger pie for all to share.

Reply #497935 | Report this post


Tiger Watcher  
Years ago

Crocs might be on the last legs so Brissy come in to replace them so what markets are next?

2nd Melb team? (Be pretty quiet in Melb lately)

2nd NZ Team? (They are keen but are the NBL)

2nd team in Perth? (Haven't heard it but only market that might be able to support it based on Wildcats gate numbers)





Reply #497938 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

If Tasmania can work out the regional hate issues, that must be a decent choice. The AFL has done well to make a sustainable model for 2 clubs part time. Whilst not great in corporate backing potential, it would be a good regional style market to consider.

2nd NZ would have to be on the cards if done right.

2nd Melb team - although United have done an excellent job of positioning themselves to make this harder on whoever tries this. Could only see this working as a well coordinated East Suburbs team based at SBC, or a regional option like Geelong.

I guess Canberra could be a chance.

Reply #497943 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

What happened to that Crocs fan who before Round 1 was defending RSL Stadium and moaning that there are no TV games there this season.

Well well well now that the majority have actually seen the reality of what RSL looks like they have come to the same conclusion.

It was so cheap looking on NBL.TV no wonder Ten or the league didn't schedule a TV game there it would be downright embarrassing. Good move.

Also at least make RSL seem better than it is, yet the court was a generic one, what happened to the Crocs floor from TEC with the logo and good looking parquet?

Also you can see the windows and doors of RSL and the windows had bars on them so it looked like it was a jailhouse indoor court. LOL!

At the very least they should have got some giant Crocs logo posters produced to drape against the two walls behind the baskets but this amateur organisation is worse than a state league side.

Reply #497995 | Report this post


Thunder Jam  
Years ago

Apparently charging $10 to park your car hasn't been rcvd well either.

Reply #497997 | Report this post


NBL Fan  
Years ago

I don't think the NBL can afford anymore negative publicity when we are about to expand. I remember whenever s team folds we just keep getting told basketball is dead and it is a basketcase.

Reply #498029 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

If you want to know why it was only 2/3 full, look at the ticket prices:

http://www.crocodiles.com.au/ticket-prices

Reply #498048 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Canberra aren't in the hunt, NZ want another season and Melbourne is a bust.
Tassie can do it Brissie in automatically.

Reply #498049 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

Wow. Looks like Hawks tickets before they came to their senses.

Reply #498050 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

When you look at the seating map there are only about three rows of bronze on each side at $29 (which looked full) and then next is silver at $53, which looked mostly empty. Time to think quick and make that $29 as well.

http://nblclubstatic.s3.amazonaws.com/town_TRSL%20Seating%20Plan%20-%20Numbered.pdf

Reply #498054 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Like changing deckchairs on the Titanic, IMO.

Reply #498056 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Their survival will probably come down to the TV deal.

Reply #498059 | Report this post


Kr  
Years ago

I renewed my season tickets in the bronze section which is the cheapest option and at $25 a game was up on last year at tecc, yet they only made the back three rows available for cheap seats.

Obviously they have to cover similar overheads in a smaller venue with less seats, hence the higher cost of other closer seats. But the bronze tickets were all but gone within the first week and most fans would have pulled the pin rather than paying $45 or about double their previous ticket price.

Either they hope for the best and continue to price people out of the market or open up three more rows to bronze or $25 tickets and give those already with season tickets in those seats the chance to fill silver seats closer to the action. At least that gives casual fans the option of a reasonably priced ticket.

Reply #498094 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Maybe 8 teams next season if the Crocs and what other team fold?

Reply #498102 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

paul, those silver prices are way out of line given how many there are.

Reply #498123 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Absolutement! That should be the gold price.

Reply #498125 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Problem is that now people have purchased memberships, you cant now go and discount prices for individual ticket sales or to sell more memberships... if you did the people who have forked out their money would be pissed.

It's a monumental fark up and its killing me to see my team die a slow death and to be ridiculed on the way out. Unfortunately, most criticisms are well founded.

I'll also add that Townsville has one of the nations highest unemployment rates at the moment, so people here are doing it tough!

Let's also not forget how the previous owners treated the fans - let's go back to the treatment of fan favorites Rob Rose, John Rillie, Corey Williams etc... they kept thinking people would support them despite how badly they treated people and how little they did for sponsors and members. Less and less people gave a shit - the new board have not learnt from their mistakes!

Reply #498126 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

As paul suggested, they should increase the number of bronze seats and bring existing season ticket holders down closer to the action. Then offer the remaining bronze as season tickets slightly cheaper to account for the one game, or just for walk-ups.

For the remaining silver, find a way to sweeten the deal. T-shirt or hoodie or something.

An alternative would be to make the silver tickets say $35-40 (still high) and upgrade all the bronze buyers, then sell the remaining bronze tickets at $20.

Reply #498138 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

couldn't hurt Isaac!

Reply #498140 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

You can change the ticket prices, as suggested you'd just have to sweeten the deal for those who already bought memberships by upgrading them, giving them merchandise, giving them a partial refund, or discounting their membership next season.

Sadly it might be too late, as people have already heard tickets are very expensive. The Victoria Giants got a big turnout for their first game at MSAC, but once the $20 tickets had gone all that was left were $40 which people didn't want to pay, and that affected their crowds for the rest of the season.

Too many mistakes are made in the NBL and not learned from, no corporate memory so we keep going over the same ground.

Reply #498142 | Report this post


swish  
Years ago

Why not see if Nth Qld can field one team playing out of 2 venus, much like is being proposed for Tasmania. The NRL has one team up there as far as I know so why not have 1 NBL team. Its aa bit hard to justify 3 teams ( was 4 when we had Blaze and Bullets as well) playing out of Qld when only 2 out of NSW and 1 out of Vic, SA, WA annd NZ.

Reply #498153 | Report this post


Nathan of Perth  
Years ago

End of the day, the death of the Crocs will have to be sheeted to the TEC whose ruthlessness towards the Crocs will end up costing them all in the long run.

From what I've read, there really was no choice but to move.

Reply #498154 | Report this post


Molten Millie  
Years ago

NAthan of Perth, the smaller clubs will start to fall as the wealthy flourish under the new system, predict the next to fall will be Sixers and Cairns despite success and the new will also struggle to get established unless they can get the millionaire plus backing and state governments to build central stadiums or have one already there.. So Nathan, the predictions will come to fruit. Don't blame TEC as they are also having to cover costs. Unless you live in a downward spiralling economy that some states and rural communities are suffering then you will never understand and just overstate the abilities of clubs as being fantastically managed when they have been gifted all they need to survive and flourish, which others haven't. Despite that they make the hard decisions, they keep pushing, locals who can't afford it put in what they can't afford, volunteers pitch in and players take losses and show loyalty no matter hard it gets and to the end. Don't criticise any of it. You should be supportive and encouraging and respectful but then you will never know what these teams and communities do. Sixers had a Save our Sixer Consortium that sent themselves poor as they couldn't get backing and have a stadium well away from what they need to flourish and now compete with a thriving Adelaide Oval in a community that has rising unemployment and dwindling income and businesses and venture closing. To get to 2nd last year the keep the club alive players took cuts, owners are suffering and it goes on.

Reply #498155 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Once again, it will come down to the TV deal.

If they sign a good television contract that delivers sponsorship to the league and money to the clubs every team will become viable. Without it, I doubt the league is viable long term.

Reply #498157 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

$28k per game rent is covering costs Molten Millie???

Reply #498163 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Good luck getting your Super payments Croc players. I'd be making sure they are up to date now. Cos when it goes belly up you can kiss goodbye to anything outstanding.

Reply #498165 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

swish, the NRL has one team in NQ but it only plays out of Townsville. They don't play any games in Cairns or Mackay. I don't see any problem with 3 or 4 QLD teams IF they met/meet the criteria. What's been stopping Victoria having 3 or 4 teams? Have consortiums been knocking on the NBL's door asking for licences? I don't think so.

Reply #498170 | Report this post


Mick  
Years ago

A lot of this has to fall back on NBL HQ though.

The Crocs are a pretty amateur organisation at the moment, run largely by volunteers and other folk whose hearts are in the right place but who don't have a clue what they are doing. The league should be watching them very closely and keeping them on a short, short leash. It would be a tragedy to lose another team right now.

The NBL should have reviewed their ticket pricing scheme and rejected it. The NBL should be reviewing lots of what they are doing and rejecting it (maybe they should take control of their twitter account too....asking your social media followers to lend a bed for Mickell Gladness to sleep on for the season reflects badly on the franchise locally and the Australian basketball as a whole).

Their entire business model is fundamentally flawed. Their community restructure/re-launch charter says they are banking on a $100k profit by 2015.

How are you supposed to achieve anything in real terms when the whole franchise model is a fairy tale? You can't measure any gains/losses against any measuring sticks because the KPIs are were cooked up between tokes of a crack pipe.

They actually have a decent roster put together this season which makes all the off-the-court stuff even sadder.

They are kidding themselves if they think they can cover losses by increasing ticket prices. NBL prices are too high to begin with, league-wide. Townsville has the worst stadium and is coming off the wooden spoon... and they have the highest prices in a league of high ticket prices.

It's just a lack of self-awareness and a lack of business sense.

If you live in Townsville, why would you buy a Crocs season membership when you can buy a Cowboys (NRL) membership instead, and watch one of the greatest players of all time (Johnathan Thurston) play every week for half the price?

And it's not just the ticket prices: from what I've heard they are asking silly money for corporate sponsorship as well.

Reply #498171 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

"Townsville has the worst stadium and is coming off the wooden spoon... and they have the highest prices in a league of high ticket prices."
They might have the highest-priced cheapest ticket, but their cheapest ticket is still a much better seat than the cheapest ticket in most venues around the league, and their most expensive tickets aren't even in the ballpark of, say, Perth.

They got 1.5k people on Sunday, so they're clearly doing something wrong, but you can't just compare them to other teams with much bigger venues, who are selling worse seats and have more ability to make up for the money they don't make off the back few rows by charging an arm and a leg for the front few rows.

Reply #498175 | Report this post


King Podge  
Years ago

one team across Cairns and Townsville wouldn't work. Most people here don't support the Cowboys because of the fact they're in Townsville.......
Wouldn't work and doesn't make much sense, especially given the off court success the Taipans have had (posting profits, sponsorship etc). If they were going to head down that track i'd suggest they look at places south of T'ville (Mackay for example)

I think it's a bit early to throw the Crocs out with the bathwater. I don't think the league will let them fail and Sunday games are notoriously hard to fill (esp when Bathurst is on).

In saying that though, if i remember correctly, even the Cowboys have struggled to put bums on seats the last couple of seasons (with the exception of finals) so maybe it's just systematic of a malaise in the T'ville marketplace?

Let's remember though that it is amazing how quickly things turn around after a couple of wins.

Reply #498176 | Report this post


swish  
Years ago

The idea of having a Nth Qld team playing out of 2 cities is just an attempt to keep the Crocs legacy alive. If the town can't support a full team maybe they can share with Cairns. I know there is a rivalry but the concept is based on what is being suggested as the answer to a Tasmanain team playing out of three towns. Just an idea I had with no real answer to the many issues.

Not sure how it would go down in Cairns BUT it is a better look for the league from the outside to be seen to be consolidating its presence in Nth Qld rather than being seen as simply having another team fold.

Reply #498179 | Report this post


Venom  
Years ago

Interesting stat from the Cowboys - 60% of the members aren't from the Townsville area with well over 70% of the home game crowd (lots of people from Cairns will only buy a few game tickets cause of the travel etc) not from Townsville. Basically the cowboys survive due to fans outside of the Townsville.

Agree with Podge its just the general malaise in da ville - employment is the highest in the state, mining jobs are shrinking rapidly, Fly in Fly out jobs are now based out of Cairns/Mackay. Townsville is struggling in general.

Will they close ? Dont think so but there will be alot of pain in the near future.

Reply #498191 | Report this post


NBL Fan  
Years ago

Also why don't the Crocs have their naming rights sponsor on their jersey.

Reply #498195 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

they got their jerseys on the friday...

Reply #498203 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I wish the Crocs would go back to what they were but sadly it seems like the end.

So replace Crocs with Bullets and we have the big five city teams back plus Wollongong and expansion Cairns and NZ.

If you think about it it is very alarming no expansion teams since 1989 have been able to survive apart from Cairns & NZ assuming Townsville go by the wayside.

and even so Bullets, Kings went under only to be resurrected, with Hawks and Taipans now community models.

So really the whole league is still a basketcase, pardon the pun.

Reply #498208 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

With the final consolidation of suburban teams circa 1990 you have Hawks 1979, Wildcats 1982, Sixers (Eagles) 1982 & Tigers (United) 1984 continuously competing in the NBL. Since then how many have come and gone (bust). Ouch.

Reply #498209 | Report this post


Wilson Sting  
Years ago

swish, I see your point about consolidating NQ teams for the sake of the league but asking Cairns and Townsville to merge would be like asking Port Adelaide and Adelaide to merge.
As Cairns are quite strong as a standalone entity the better solution would be if TSV folded for Cairns to play one or two home games out of TSV, but not as a merged team.

Reply #498234 | Report this post


Matthew  
Years ago

Mick : Its funny you should mention that Townsville are a 'pretty amateur organisation' at the moment.


Have you seen the NBL recently? Townsville arnt the only organisation that should be having a look at itself.

The NBL website should be being updated every day with articles and information. It isnt. Ive yet to see any tv advertising or radio advertising by the NBL (ie advertising that isnt from my local Wildcats team).

I think we really need to slow down on this expansion push. More teams might sound really awesome, but its not doing anything to fix the teams we have right now.

Reply #498316 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

More teams = better TV deal = more money. Money fixes a lot of problems.

Reply #498318 | Report this post


HO  
Years ago

More teams = better tv deal ONLY if the product rates sufficiently to justify that deal and create a two bidder situation.

A better deal = more money ONLY if that extra money covers the maintenance of running the extra teams in the expanded league AND provides cash back to clubs.

That doesn't require a better deal - it requires a MUCH better deal.

There is no proof that more content (more teams playing more games more consistently) makes the product more desirable to TV. Its a strategy they have adopted. It may or may not work.

Reply #498321 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So crocs out and who else? Back to 8 teams. If the NBL are seriously thinking of long term 14 teams or so they are deluded. They cant manage there own website well with 8 teams.

Reply #498344 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The NBL is getting just $600k a year now from Ten for it's TV rights those hanging on to the hope of a big TV deal fixing everything what do you seriously think the NBL could get from Ten or another network?

$1m a year IMO would be the absolute most and I doubt that extra $400k a year spread around HQ and the other 7 clubs would be enough to save the Crocs.

Reply #498349 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I don't think many people would have predicted FFA getting $40 mill a year.

Reply #498355 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

FFA getting paid $40mil isn't surprising as they have a boy's club at SBS looking after them just like Ch7 look after the AFL and Ch9 NRL by overpaying, and the most irrelevant sport cricket also being looked after Ch9 for decades now, showing stupidly long test matches that realistically who watches.

The problem is basketball in this country has no boy's club backer.

Truthfully the $ that all these leagues get is overinflated with the networks subsidising the sport the majority in their organisation love.

Reply #498369 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Also FFA $40mil is for Socceroos the #1 national team of Australia and the most relevant in the nation. Very poor comparing FFA to NBL, FFA have done amazingly since NSL & Soccer Australia were scrapped ten years ago. NBL & BA nothing achieved during that time.

Reply #498370 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Please explain "#1 national team of Australia "

Reply #498380 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Most popular with widespread appeal due to being a global sport.

Reply #498456 | Report this post




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