Tom
Years ago

Which side are you on? Fraser or Marvin?

Do you prefer the Faser Neill idea of having midweek games in smaller venues or do you prefer Nick Marvin and the rest of the NBL boards idea of weekend games in bigger venues?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

It's a tough one isn't it.

All I know is that an improved TV deal with more games (and all live) is imperative

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Whichever is more viable to the clubs ( and TV plays a huge part in this)

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NBL Fan  
Years ago

I think having games in bigger stadiums looks more professional and I support weekend games. Although I wouldn't be against a televised midweek game.

Will Fraser leaving affect the Brisbane NBL bid at all?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Apparently the decision does not affect Brisbane.

Brisbane is a certainty for next season

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Anonymous  
Years ago

NFL is a machine in the USA. Dominate Sunday and Monday nights. Our AFL (although AFL is more Friday and Saturday).

AFL and NFL are similar in that that players can't really play more then once a week as the game is too hard on the body.

The advantage basketball has is that players can play more then once a week. The players hate training all the time and only playing once a week.

Midweek and TV will work with Australian hoops. Networks want live content during the week.

Another less important factor to consider is betting turnover. Betting on sport is huge in Australia and is growing every year. Punters are looking for things to bet on, and if there is a live game on a Tuesday night when nothing else is on the punter might have their $5 or $20 on the game. If that game is live on tv, they are likely to check in on how their bet is doing. Potentially a way to convert some on the 90s Jordan/nba junkies that now make their own cash and have forgot the NBL still existed.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I don't think the issue is as simple as OP states. I don't believe that anyone on the board would be against midweek games/new TV deal but they would be if it wasn't done properly.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Are you suggesting that Neill wouldn't have done it properly?

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Baller#3  
Years ago

Tv might work but crowds definitely will not be big. Besides public holidays keep it thurs to Sunday. Get a deal going for a prime time thurs, and Saturday and Sunday Arvos I reckon when not much is happening.

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Very Old  
Years ago

you will NOT get crowds (4000+) filling large stadiums at odd weekday games anywhere other than for the occasional big important games in Perth/syd/melb/Bris.

Sydney died trying to do it, perhaps melbourne could , but every other populations base won't succeed.

see here
http://blog.id.com.au/2014/population/australian-population/the-50-largest-australian-cities-and-towns-by-population/

below is 1 to 21

Sydney 4,373,433
Melbourne 4,181,021
Brisbane 2,143,121
Perth 1,901,582
Adelaide 1,263,888
Gold Coast - Tweed Heads 605,134
Newcastle – Maitland 425,895
Canberra – Queanbeyan 418,856
Central Coast
Sunshine Coast
Wollongong 286,581
Hobart 206,560
Geelong 181,853
Townsville 176,035
Cairns 145,003
Darwin 119,597
Toowoomba 112,588
Ballarat 96,940
Bendigo 96,940
Albury – Wodonga 86,274
Launceston 86,188

thats an almost 33% drop between Perth and adelaide, and a 50% drop between adelaide and the next population, and a 66% drop between Adelaide and a "anticipated" canberra market that is the 8th largest population base ??

I suspect that Marvin, sucking of the biggest avable financial teat. and the NZ guys with all of NZ behind them, just do not "get it"

if the NBL wants to expand to a more marketable 12 team size ( 6 games per round for TV and internet to have at least a few products to sell) it needs to realise that syd/Melb/Bris/Perth franchises will be the odd markets that should survive irrespective of the structure, and that the majority of the rest of the league will actually be the "normal" markets where the design of the way of how the league is run ( for financial viability) will need to cater for to ensure some stability.

The immediate way would be for the big markets to give 66% of their "box office" to the teams from small markets. its a equalization thing. Like that's going to happen.

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Very Old  
Years ago

put a second team into Perth, and its still got a bigger population "share" than Canberra - but then I think you would hear the squeal carry clearly eastward not only over the Nullabour plain , but also over the Hay Plain as well.

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Very Old  
Years ago

I favour allowing the "normal" markets to have smaller home stadiums, and if they need to have midweek games, have them host "big" or strong "rivalry" games that can attract crowds, like Gong (H) Vs Sydney.

Have an enforcable equalisation policy on income and sponsorship that supports the smaller markets (that a smart large market CEO would know they need to have in the league to play against).

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Very Old  
Years ago

I think I remember Brisbane getting huge crowds at one time 10,000 ? - which is still (in todays terms) only 1 in 200(0.5%) of people. Canberra was HOT HOT HOT in the 80's,with NO AFL, NFL or Rugby - and I think may have got as much as 3500 people or probably 0.75% attendance at some games then they got to be lucky to get 1200 and had to close off some of the stadium .

Adelaide arena has an 8000 capacity , so that requires a 0.75% attendance to get full.



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Ricey  
Years ago

Honestly, Darwin should have a team. Money, sponsors and support are there, not to mention next to nothing to do.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Neill. Needs to be a slow build. Perth can try and run the league, but they've only got Melbourne United with a comparably financially strong ownership.

The NBL is a boutique sporting league in Australia. it can't be considered anything more than that.

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Bear  
Years ago

@Very Old, I liked reading that post, it showed some perspective when comparing population bases and then including where an NBL franchise might best work.

Obviously there are many other consideration to put into play for an NBL franchise to work in any city.

The idea of stand alone franchises here in Australia however is never going to be anything like an NBA or Euro League because we just will not be able to support these, the sport just has too many established competitors.

What could work for basketball however, is the Association backed model??!

If we could tap into the huge numbers of participants playing the sport across every city and somehow connect our NBL or potential NBL teams with these markets then we may have the supporting networks behind our NBL franchises, necessary to expand the competition...

No matter how we break it down, the problem is that stand alone NBL teams are not attractive enough to make an expansion viable, or at least that seems to be the case for the most part!

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Isaac  
Years ago

Whatever TV favours and whatever gets games on live. More games, or a shorter super-season, combinations of both, whatever they'll pay for.

Players would rather play more games than all the extra training. More games, done right, could mean better use of the players in the time they're contracted. Also means less time to scout teams which makes for more fluid play, weaker defense, and more highlights. More opportunities for sponsors.

Joakim Noah was surprised recently that Pau Gasol was watching game tape for research on a flight to play the Raptors. Those guys play back-to-backs and (in the past, not sure about now?) even four-in-fives. Here each team generally has a full week to prepare for their opponent.

With more teams, the talent will be spread thinner so that you'll more often have a stud taking on a rookie - again, should mean more highlights. Teams going 9-10 deep are too good.

With more games, you won't really expect to see all your home games in person. You might go to 10 out of 20, or 14 out of 21, etc. You'd watch the extras on TV, ideally.

More teams means more jobs, more rookies coming through, more imports. More total viewers.

I think the NBL is in an awkward zone of public support between strong enough and something more amateur. If you want only blockbuster teams drawing 8k/game, only about 5-6 teams have that potential and that's if everything goes perfect. In reality, only one is doing it. Any plan needs to account for the regional clubs or let them go.

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Bear  
Years ago

The main issues then are these:

1. Crowds
2. Money
3. Standard of competition

1. CROWDS - We don't play in huge open air stadiums (like footy or soccer), therefore we must accept and adapt to smaller indoor stadiums. Not a problem if we have more teams that are supported by locally situated basketball communities. This also creates rivalry and tribalism, crowds will be more consistent, if not massive and sporadic.

2. MONEY - In stead of always running out of it by creating fincnial nightmare situations, the new NBL model should look at how it can be more financially viable. Smaller franchises, more of them, backed by several local Associations I believe will be far more financially survivable and throw in TV money with the tribal rivalry this creates, then we don't have the problem of losing teams.

3. STANDARD - Each team should be able to afford a very handy starting line up, the bench would not be as strong as it is in the NBL now and like @Isaac says^ this creates more of everything. It also makes coaches think more about their substitutions and the best players will stand out more, maybe even become super stars in the league by doing so...

Yes, this idea has been spoken about before and yes, it is taking one step back to perhaps take two forward, but I have always though going down this track is the answer for basketball here in such a small population country like Australia!

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Bear  
Years ago

...And include New Zealand, of course...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

You cannot continue to try to build and expand on unstable foundations.

The NBL MUST re establish a solid sustainable foundation with what it has BEFORE trying to expand and grow.

This obsession with trying to expand and move into larger frightfully more expensive stadiums is completely blinding peoples judgement.

Expansion should be done slowly based on DEMAND not "hope"..

This is the single biggest reason the league is struggling and continues to struggle year after year IMO.

It's pricing itself into bankruptcy by creating unbearable cost without sustainable income.

Get the foundations right, even if it means down sizing for a while to create stability and viability them CREATE demand, then respond to demand.

NOT the other way round.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Why would any local association financial sink money into a nbl team?

What benefits would it provide?

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Bear  
Years ago

Not any local Association on it's own Anon^, you gotta think outside that square sonny jim, look towards the sky and think of combined basketball communities (more than one Association), to create a strong community model by combining resources...

Kind of what Melbourne United is trying to do, but on a scale they can manage better! Think of Victoria as having the potential for six NBL teams, for example:

Melbourne Tigers
Melbourne Dragons
Melbourne United
Melbourne Magic
Bendigo Braves
Geelong Supercats

I am only naming them from previous used names as a concept (not saying this is how it would be), don't hang me on what or who they are, this is just an example of potential markets in Victoria. If you can split Melbourne into zones and adopt something like a grouping of Associations model you will get what I mean...

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Isaac  
Years ago

Anon '150, the financial cost of another self-funded club (not the case with Brisbane, it seems) doesn't necessarily hamper the league and existing clubs. All those costs generally come from the new owners, their incoming fans, their sponsors, etc. It doesn't detract from the existing clubs. If it were a new Melbourne team, for example, it would even consolidate some travel costs potentially.

I think they could bring in new clubs without impacting the issues they already have with online, etc.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I am not sure if Crowds are the issue, I think it is just Revenue.

If the NBL teams could stay alive with TV money and sponsorship would they really care what crowds turn up? Sure you want the atmosphere and have fans cheering the team on, but for financial viability I think the NBL teams should just focus on trying to make a profit.

I also wonder what potential sponsors want to see. 10,000 people at a game or 4,000 people and 2 million+ watching on TV. I think the TV audience reach is more appealing. For instance look at the NCAA where they have TV Timeouts where the game stops so sponsor messages get shown (btw - I hate that idea, but making the point TV rules their sport).

I don't mind the idea of doing the Big Bash type scenario where 1 NBL game is played on every day of the week shown at the same time live on TV and 2 games on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Would need a 12-14 team league. Each team team would play every 4-5 days, so fatigue shouldn't be an issue.

Even if the games are in front of 500 people, if you get the right TV deal and supporting sponsors all the teams in the league should survive, not just the one out West.

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paul  
Years ago

You're right, revenue is the issue.

I'm not on Neill or Marvin's side, I'm on the side of a league run well, and I think that needs a board with at least as many independent members as club reps, and an independent chair, which has been talked about and will hopefully be genuinely delivered.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Sustainable income outside of gate takings is imperative.

If clubs are relying on gate to survive they've got a gun to their heads to use larger venues and hike admission costs, then hope people turn up.

If they can occupy the smallest cheapest venue that allows it to be at 90+% capacity and present well on TV, place cameras to give the illusion of a bigger venue and get the TV ratings everyone wins.

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paul  
Years ago

And if you can have a mix of both then you're an even bigger winner.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Exactly right Paul.

Gate takings should be cream not life blood.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Let's be clear here. Brisbane is a must have market for TV purposes.
Yet TV wants more games over a shorter period.
Smaller venues is the answer to that but Marvin doesn't want that for obvious reasons.
Who is funding the Brisbane team? The new AFAIK. No one has ever been interested in funding that in Brisbane.
Crowds down mid week no one wants to go then apparently. Yet Neill model has been sold to those already with an EOI who have formulated their bid on that basis and are right now ready to go.
Crazy.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

If the demand is there on TV It doesn't make any difference if crowds are down for mid week games!!! They can play in a training hall for all it matters.

If the TV ratings are up and support "stay at home viewing" so be it.

People need to get past the need to have a full stadium if 200,000 people watch in on TV.

I'm not sure how it impacts Perth if they play their away games in smaller venues.

If they can fill their own venue so be it, good for them.

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Mick  
Years ago

I disagree anon. It's the other way around. Gate takings are your lifeblood and the TV deal is cream on top. No one is walking through that door offering a TV deal that is going to be "lifeblood" to this league. It's just not gonna happen.

So I think you have to be very, very careful about putting all your eggs in the TV basket as a source of revenue.

Of course we need the best possible TV deal to guarantee exposure for the sport, but relying on it as a source of income is tenuous at best when you consider how little the NBL product is worth to advertisers and therefore TV networks. Clubs need to put bums on seats to make money.

If people think they can damn the game night experience and get some league wide TV deal that will be divided up between the clubs and expect to even come close to breaking even with paltry crowds, then you're sailing the NBL down the river.

The TV deal is gravy, but it's not going to be very big dollar wise. We have to realise that. The product is just not worth much to anyone, even in the current internet-age TV landscape where live events are a premium commodity. The NBL just doesn't move the needle, and they need to realise that when planning for the future.

The league could do a lot worse than listening to Nick Marvin right now...



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Bear  
Years ago

It is important to figure out the cause and not just try to address the symptoms IMHO.

To get the TV deals and the money you have to first develop a viable product, however that also needs time to develop which in turn needs stability and interest within the community.

Are we getting the process in the right order? If we don't get the horse driving the cart we are in for another messy future in front of us...

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paul  
Years ago

I don't agree Mick, because potential sponsors will ask how many people will see my business on TV, not do you have 3000 or 6000 at your games.

TV and sponsorship money has a much higher ceiling than ticket sales, because the venues available for basketball in this country are relatively small but expensive.

Just as importantly, the best advert for your product is a good broadcast deal that promotes the league and makes it look good. Without that the league will always be battling hard to keep crowds coming in.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Mick, with respect your way will see the league flounder for ever.

The burden to make gate work from day dot is an impossible strain.

It forces clubs into larger expensive venues than they can afford and drives attendance costs up.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

100% agree Mick.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Correct, the sponsors that pay big money want national TV exposure not local exposure.

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Hello  
Years ago

Nick Marvin has money behind all his success as does Dunn and Co....

If money was not there in the first place they would not look so successful.

That is the issue.

They are now feathering their own nests and at the expense of the other clubs..

Just look at the TV schedule.. Appalling..

Get ready for clubs to fall and the NBL to be in hiatus next year.

Great to have the money for the superstars but when 70 % of your clubs without the funds then the mismatch begins and we are already seeing that.

Rules and deals made to suit the BIG 3 !!!!

Bye Bye NBL… We will miss you….

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alexkrad  
Years ago

If midweek games worked don't you think the AFL would be already doing it?

So you push the clubs to play in small shit stadiums to cover the money lost by not getting bigger crowds and then after a couple years the TV realises no one is watching and pulls out and then what? we are stuck with a seabl size national competition.

Isnt the reason Townsville got no TV games because their stadium had inadequate lighting and camera angle for TV presentation? so if that's the bench mark for these smaller stadiums being used then they cant even be used for TV purposes what's the point?

We should be moving forwards not backwards.

I would be OK with Wednesday games, IF it didn't have a 'small stadium' condition attached.

Bring back the 3,000 capacity minimum. If you cant fill that you probably aren't in a viable market to be in the league or not trying hard enough.

Move Crocodiles to Brisbane if they insist they cant survive if they don't play at the RSL, gives them a decent roster to start out with.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

July 2014 - "While NBL chief executive Fraser Neill has publicly assured there will be an expansion team in Brisbane, it's understood the NBL board has given him a directive to focus resources on stabilising existing clubs in the eight-team competition rather than directing any more financial support towards expansion."

October 2014 - "Marvin, who will be replaced by an independent chairman this season, said the league has worked hard to ensure the teams are as financially stable as ­possible, having been hit by several teams folding or hitting financial trouble in the past decade.

"In the past 18 months my greatest focus has been on making sure the teams are aware of their risk profile and working within that. We've ­established a financial benchmarking across the league, requiring monthly financial reporting across several ­categories that allow the teams to ­measure themselves against each other. We say we compete hard against each other on the court for 40 minutes but want to co-operate off the court."

Right, so Marvin is about financial stability and clubs improving their own bottom line, but because he supposedly single-handedly rejected this magical/mythical tv deal, which has got Underpants Gnomes written all over it, he's the bad guy and only has his own interests at heart? Gotcha.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Perth have a unique market. Marvins way wont work for the rest of the country.

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paul  
Years ago

Alex, the AFL desperately wants midweek games because it would increase the value of their TV deals, but they have a limited number of games they play each year and can't win fans over to trade in weekend games and head into the city on those nights.

That's why Neill wanted midweek games in small local venues. They are close to people's homes and you only need a small crowd in those stadiums to provide atmosphere.

Then, with an increase in games, you still offer the same weekend games you always have. You are not trading off one or the other, you have both and get more bang for your buck.

BTW, Townsville and Cairns being marginalised in the TV schedule this year is about cost rather than venues.

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MACDUB  
Years ago

How much of Perth's off court success is down to Marvin and how much of it isn't?

Sure Perth is absolutely the ideal model but I am more inclined to think there were other things which paved the way for Perth to get where they are at.

As good as Marvin is, he hasn't really done anything really innovative or "out there"..he built a prayer centre and hired about 7 assistant coaches..but from a marketing perspective i feel he hasn't been too proactive.

Yet he will use Perth's success to believe everyone that they are doing things mightily different.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

"As good as Marvin is, he hasn't really done anything really innovative or "out there"..he built a prayer centre and hired about 7 assistant coaches..but from a marketing perspective i feel he hasn't been too proactive."

Oh dear.

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Bear  
Years ago

@alexkrad, mid week games in the AFL would just be too long and people can't afford the time, they tried Monday night football and Thursday night football, it wasn't as big and their crowd expectations are so high that they have dropped these concepts in favour of more weekend games.

The AFL recognises the improtance of bringing football back to the people, listen to the footy talk around the place and you will see they are going to be careful of dropping the ball and not going too corporate in the future.

The other thing that makes this comparison unfair is the game itself, you can play more than one game of basketball a week, not football, therefore the AFL schedule is made much harder with mid week games, not such an issue for the NBL I would imagine.

Small, shit stadiums with poor lighting isn't what people are talking about for future stadiums in a restructured NBL either.

I think you will find that a smaller stadium of about that 3,000-8,000 capacity mark is about what is needed. Quality if important and I think everyone egrees that TV deals will not be successful if we don't get lighting, seating, atmosphere etc... right!

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MACDUB  
Years ago

Anon 190,

So tell me what he has done. I'm not discrediting the bloke.

I just want to know what he has done in terms of systems, plans, strategies to get it how it is.

Please provide examples. I'm not taking the mickey, I genuinely want to know what he is doing/has done.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

MACDUB, lets see...

The simple things he does/they do is fan engagement. What the Cats do is aim to keep the members happy by providing quality customer service (the amount of times I've had a phone call following up from a query etc at 6 or 7pm is numerous) and making sure that fans are constantly aware of what is going on through social media etc. The times that the players call the members to say thanks has the excitement built by the event being "live tweeted" - I don't know if other clubs do the same but it works well.

He personally responds to emails sent to him. He has someone employed to mentor the players on things like how to act on social media - you won't see a headcase like Mitch Creek take over the account and call people bitches on his watch

The amount of tweets they send to show all sorts of non-game related things is second to none - a lot of those things don't interest me but I am definitely aware of them.

In terms of bigger things, lets see....first game at the Arena, they went all out on hiring some Australian Idol singer to perform pre-game and half-time. Again, didn't interest me in the slightest but it got the crowds in, with the aim of showing that attending a Cats game is a good experience.

There is constant advertising throughout the city for Wildcats tickets - banners on the streetlights, ads on the backs of buses, and they used scooters to have mobile billboards cruise through the city on the week of game days (those games being on a Friday, in case you hadn't read www.markdalton.com yet today).

They've spent the money for the past two years going on the end of season junkets to the US looking at ways at improving the game night experience (it was NOT to conduct a worldwide coaching search as is commonly misrepresented). I don't think they have got the whole experience right yet - sometimes there is too much going on, but overall the thought is that they have the 10,000+ fans attending so the challenge is to keep them coming.

All of those things above are part of marketing the club properly.

None of these things are particularly innovative but they don't need to be. Yes, there is financial support behind him but whether there was or wasn't, the key thing is that what they did would be done properly. Marvin was on the scene before Bendat was and I can assure you that these little things were being done from the get go. You might even say that because had all his ducks in a row, he got lucky with the support of Bendat.

The league has had plenty of rich owners come and go, almost all of them failing. Possibly has something to do with the narrow-mindedness of people thinking that money/investment solves everything so you can just sit on your hands, until the time comes to throw them up in the air in bewilderment. Marvin has done his best to make sure that hasn't/won't happen with his club.

I've read the common complaint here that the Sixers provide next to nothing in terms of fan engagement. You'd think they would have learned by now but I guess its just easy for them and their fans/online mouthpieces point the finger instead.

So if you want to dismiss his efforts as just building a prayer room and hiring assistant coaches, go for it. I think the question needs to be asked of other clubs why they haven't pulled their fingers out. It seems they'd rather drag other clubs down than do the right thing by themselves and the rest of the league but I guess the wounds of game 3 of the finals still run deep.

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Bear  
Years ago

I wish the owners of the Melbourne Tigers did all that anon^, maybe we would have a second franchise in Victoria already, call them united, I don't care really just saying...

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Bear, I wish all other owners did that sort of stuff to the best of the capabilities. Obviously not all have the same resources but there is no excuse for not doing whatever they do properly.

But again, it seems its easier for Boti and co to point the finger or tell half-truths in order to make up for it.

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paul  
Years ago

The Wildcats have done a great job of recreating their former prestige in Perth and then building on it, and Marvin has been a big part of that.

The key there has been spending money to make money, and the NBL really needs to put some cash into its front office to be able to emulate that.

It seems they are waiting for next year when a new TV deal (hopefully) brings a major sponsor, but really the owners who can should be investing now and recouping when that happens.

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Isaac  
Years ago

You'd think they would have learned by now but I guess its just easy for them and their fans/online mouthpieces point the finger instead.
That's a false dichotomy. I have been critical of the 36ers' efforts and in particular this woeful off-season just been. I didn't renew my season tickets expressly because their efforts had been so pathetic.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Efforts so pathetic that last seasons grand finalists are turning long-time fans away. Who exactly is the roadblock holding the league back?

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paul  
Years ago

Do you think there is only one?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Not at all, but only one has been singled out in the past 24 hours.

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paul  
Years ago

The main one being singled out is the fact the NBL doesn't have an independent chair or board. That's a major issue.

Yes, some people are using it as a chance to bash Marvin, but the simple fact is no one should be in those two positions, and certainly the move towards having independent people on the board has been very slow.

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Train  
Years ago

I'm all for the idea of mid week games in regional areas. Each team plays 1-2 games a year outside of their normal arena. For example Perth could play games in Geraldton or Kalgoorlie. Melbourne could play in Geelong/Bendigo, Townsville and Cairns could play games in Darwin/Mackay/Rockhampton...and so on.

Not only would this provide weekly games for TV coverage but it would also go to communities that don't get to see live games. May even help in growing fan base and sponsorship.

These games could be played in areas where the NBL might look for possible expansion teams for the future. Would of really liked to see some games played in Gold Coast, Brisbane, Canberra, Darwin, Hobart and Wellington this year.

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Matthew  
Years ago

Im positive I heard O'Neil on radio yesterday as I was driving home talk about there needing to be more money spent on Advertising and the 'front office'. I missed most of the first part of him talking but Im certain he was he disappoint about the lack of cash spent on Advertising.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Being at the mercy of TV sounds to me like an ass-backward approach.
Forget TV. If you build a league that is popular enough then TV will come knocking on their own. TV doesn't build shit, it just exploits.
The league needs fans. I don't know how it gets them, I don't have the answer to that, but thinking there's going to be 500 in the building and yet hundreds of thousands watching on tv just seems ridiculous to me. If people are that interested in the league that they will tune in, then some decent proportion of those people are going to want to come along.
Show me a sport that rates well on tv but that no one goes to watch in person. I sure can't think of one.

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MACDUB  
Years ago

But therein lies my concern.

Marvin had money, spent money and has made money.

Most owners don't have that initial cash injection that Marvin had.

Reply #503222 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Marvin not only had money, but a number of other factors in his team's favour that the others simply don't have.
Not a knock at all on Nick. He played his hand superbly. But others are not in comparable situations, even if they did have a pile of cash to gamble with.

Reply #503223 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

Anon #221, try international cricket from Dubai mate!

Reply #503224 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Kick perth out the league!

Reply #503225 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"Show me a sport that rates well on tv but that no one goes to watch in person. I sure can't think of one."

The NRL and A-League get television money well out of proportion with the number of people who go to games.

But the idea of playing more games, with some in big stadiums and some in small, will actually result in more people going to games, not less.

Reply #503226 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Just to be clear about Marvin, I was asked to explain what he'd done, because someone facetiously suggested all he'd done was built a prayer room and hired assistant coaches. I'm in no way saying all clubs need to hire 21 front office staff to guarantee success but whatever they do, they need to do properly. That still doesn't happen and that is going to be far more damaging than any perceived conflict of interest.

Reply #503227 | Report this post


Bear  
Years ago

@paul, this is true, any sport can stuff up and waste many $$$ if they are not midnful of how they manage their product, so the NBL is no different to the AFL, NRL, A-League or ACB in regards to its financial future and growth of thier game.

The only difference is the product, the structure and potential.

If the NBL can get its structure right it will improve the product to a point where TV will jump on in leaps and bounds, why?

Because basketball is probably the one with the most upside (potential to grow)! I believe our ceiling is much higher and we are coming from a lower base...

Think about it, none of the other sports mentioned are truly cross gender, sure girls play them but not in the percentage they play basketball. The WNBL is proof of what I am suggesting here.

We have a real advanatge over other sports in some areas IMHO. I believe we just need to get our heads right and we can move forward, grow and compete for the TV dollars...

PS, not counting games like golf or tennis where females make up a huge % because they are not really our competitors in this market I don't think.

Reply #503234 | Report this post


MACDUB  
Years ago

I'm not a Perth supporter, hence I don't get to see what he does in the flesh.

Hence why I asked what he does (it was a legitimate question)

Re: the comment regarding the assistant coaches and the prayer room.

That's because as fans of teams other than Perth, we only see the spending. Don't hear about anything else.

Reply #503235 | Report this post


Camel 31  
Years ago

it doesn't matter which side you're on
when you're on the titanic

Reply #503240 | Report this post


blitz101  
Years ago

Correct me if I'm wrong but is there any advertisement of NBL on TV in WA ??

Reply #503243 | Report this post


blitz101  
Years ago

Add also in any other state?? I see bits and pieces on the news, and the players have there segments on the radio stations but nothing on TV

Reply #503244 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

How can you be wrong when you are asking a question?

Reply #503245 | Report this post


Isaac  
Years ago

If the NBL clubs don't have some sort of live, editable shared manual that improves with each season, they really need to sort that out. Develop core best practice for every thing done (member outreach, community efforts, advertising, game nights, players, etc) and note embellishments that each club has tried and whether that's succeeded or failed.

The 36ers first home game this season looked like it was done entirely by people who'd never run a game night before. Same stadium, same timing, many of the same staff, etc. Some sort of manual would help there.

Reply #503247 | Report this post


Matthew  
Years ago

Blitz101: Not on TV that ive seen. Ive seen many a newspaper advertisment, many a radio ad, and a lot of billboards but not really a tv advert by the Cats. I think more of their visual budget goes into their Youtube efforts. Then again I have seen a couple of Channel 10 promos for the Cats (not the NBL in general)

The Wildcats tv series is a combination of highlights of games, them out playing lawn bowls, bits on Wilbur the Wildcat and so on. Its pretty reguarly updated. THats on youtube only though.

Reply #503252 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

I am a long-term fan of both The Eagles and Wildcats.
Whereas many fans believe that The Eagles CEO is an overpaid, incompetent crony who treats paying members like s___, few would say anything similar about Marvin.
Even back when the Arena was a pipe-dream, Marvin has always bent over backwards and innovated to keep the fans engaged and happy. As a result, fans flocked to the new Arena, they have 9000 members and climbing, and have often sold-out the venue people said Basketball could never fill.
Meanwhile The Eagles are in the same situation now, with a new stadium being built, and yet some pundits are predicting that membership will actually FALL once there are 60k seats available, such is the animosity towards management.

FTA TV IS vitally important to the future of the NBL, but it's unlikely to be the financial windfall it is for the AFL.
Keep in mind that even when the league was much bigger, they lost FTA coverage for a LONG time.

I appreciate that not every regional city has access to a large capacity stadium, however the capitals do, and that is where the NBL must strengthen its foundations.

Reply #506545 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

What if they can't get TV coverage on the days that those big stadiums might actually get a decent crowd?

Reply #506565 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

I don't know how it works in other cities, but on a Friday night we can watch the game live, rush home and watch it again at 9:30pm
I assume that such Perth games would actually be telecast live into the East Coast because of the time difference??

Given all the extra channels we have now, and the dregs they use to fill them up, I'd be very surprised if they can't find a slot for the NBL.

Reply #506574 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

The question I'm asking is, what if no station wants to show a decent number of games over the weekend?

You said FTA is vitally important to the future of the NBL, but I can't see how a small number of broadcast games, many of them delayed, are going to allow the NBL to survive in its current form.

Reply #506577 | Report this post


Harry Hackrein  
Years ago

All the Perth games live to the East coast will rate. Not.
11 pm or 11:30 pm will rate well. Not. AESDT.

Reply #506589 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I think they need a mix of both. Big games in big stadiums on weekends and midweek games in smaller stadiums with good atmosphere to offer TV more product.

Reply #506622 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So put the regional seabl teams with decent venues (Geelong, Bendigo, Hobart, etc) on midweek in a knockout cup competition?

Add the NBL teams towards the end and play towards the end only the NBL season where the seabl teams are a few months into pre season.

Reply #506628 | Report this post


Harry Hackrein  
Years ago

Many SEABL clubs have NBL players on their roster, not sure that could work.

Reply #506641 | Report this post


Dazz  
Years ago

I think FTA is firstly important for building, engaging, and retaining a fan base. In the past there were many years when tickets to a live game were an occasional treat, so televised games were important. It was harder to feed the interest when it stopped.

It could also be important as a revenue stream.
Obviously for something like AFL its a huge thing, but I'm not sure how much money there is to be made in televising NBL?

The ONLY basis I have for evaluating FTA revenue is that up until very recently NO FTA network wanted it. ie, it wasn't worth a cracker.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there has been a paradigm shift, and suddenly its uber profitable, but I don't think so.
And based on that, the model of playing "unprofitable" games in front of a thousand people and raking it in from FTA revenue just won't work.

I have no real knowledge of TV watching demographics, so this is mostly supposition on my part, but I'm not sure the model would work anyway.
Perth has nearly two million people, and on a good night we can get 12k+ people into the Arena, so its fair to assume we could generate a decent television audience for the away games.
Townsville is less than a 10th of the size and struggles to get 2000 to their games, so what would their viewing audience be???
IF FTA revenue became a driving factor, it would be no time at all before teams like the Cats began demanding a fairer share of the revenue.

As I said in that thread, it would be a shame in The Crocs folded, but a model based on propping up unsustainable teams with FTA revenue just won't work in the NBL.

Reply #506730 | Report this post


koberulz  
Years ago

The ONLY basis I have for evaluating FTA revenue is that up until very recently NO FTA network wanted it. ie, it wasn't worth a cracker.

The number of FTA channels has tripled since then, though.

Reply #506755 | Report this post


ICCrash  
Years ago

I guess when we are talking about midweek games and such, we also need to work out the associated costs. We have a 20 week schedule right now. Add a Tuesday game, a thursday game, and a combo of Friday/Saturday games. This shifts us from 20 games a year to 60, with 30 away games as opposed to 10. Yes, some of these are small (like Sydney to the gong), but if you suddenly triple the number of times teams have to travel to Perth, or NZ, it becomes harder to afford the travel.

In regards to playing every night, you'll come up against Big Bash, who play every night. Right now, we come up against Cricket and Soccer for viewers, we need to find a way to appeal to those who aren't interested in those to watch games

Making sure we have stadiums which look good on TV, aren't too expensive but can still hold a decent crowd is important. How we acheive this is a hard sell, but we need to get our revenue streams going!

Perhaps a way of working things is getting NBA rights on NBL.TV, allowing Basketball Fans access to all the best Basketball from the US. Or, partner with some College Conferences to add content? More reasons to subscribe = more subscribers.

Reply #506756 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

There is no need to increase the number of games if you don't want to. All options are available to find what works best, but the current model doesn't seem to.

I think there needs to be a little bit of innovation to create a niche for basketball.

Reply #506760 | Report this post




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