Michelle
Years ago

Abby Bishop - Opals

Abby Bishops season to date is of MVP performance. Yet Brendan Joyce believes she may struggle getting in the team due to not having the size for international basketball and the position she plays is different to what he would want for her height. Today's performance against Natalie Burton was nothing short of sensational. Interested in hearing of other people's thoughts on justifying a Natalie burton being suitable but Abby not.

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Ayjay  
Years ago

I saw some of that game and thought she was a stand out performer and if that is her consistent game she should be an Opals contender.

Reply #511424 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Today's performance is irrelevant to Opals selection, we already knew Bishop is a WNBL superstar.

She will be right in the mix for the Opals, it's a matter of whether she can fill the role that would be required better than the other players contending for PF spots.

If she can get a spot playing minutes in the WNBA that will help her as she'll have to play a role rather than be a star, which is the same in international competition.

Reply #511427 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I would think in the leadup to Brazil players required to try out for the opals won't be able to play wnba. So Abby will have this upcoming season to attempt to make her mark in the wnba.

Reply #511433 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

Agree with both above.
Abby's last stint in the WNBA didn't go so well.
She's a more mature player now and will know what to expect this time around, and hopefully prepare appropriately.
If she can hold down even a modest rotation spot in the WNBA then that should be all the evidence BJ needs that she can play effective international ball.

Not sure about the comparison between her & Burton though. Two totally different styles of players, and I don't see then being in direct competition for a position. Nat would still want to improve though if she wants a spot at the Olympics, regardless of what happens with Abby.

Fingers crossed that Seattle give Abby the call-up this season (and that she is actually interested in heading over there of course).

Reply #511445 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The team in my eyes is pretty much sorted.
Abby should definately be there in rio and upcoming qualifiers. Has to be!.

5'8 Phillips 1/2/ 5'10 madgen 1/2
6'1 Taylor 2/3/1/ 6'1 Allen 2/3
6'1 Ohea 3/2/1/ 6'1 jarry 3/2/ 1 of 6'2 kunek 2/3, 6'2 Talbot 3/2 or 6'3 Blicavs 3/2.
6'5 Tolo 4/5/ 6'4 Francis 4/5/ 6'3 bishop 4
6'8 Cambage 5/ 6'5 Jackson 4/5

I think they will switch tolo to PF and have Jackson as backup centre.
Tolo is very mobile and has a mid range shot but is not a fantastic rebounder.
Jackson is not as mobile as she once was... Better rebounder.

Not sure who to choose out of Talbot, kunek or Blicavs.
Defence, offense or a bit of both...

Reply #511473 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

This is getting a bit off the Abby subject, but you seriously want 2 combo guards as the only guards in the 12?? Never going to happen! Terrible idea both offensively and defensively.
Love Erin & Tess and would have them in my team too, but need at least one pure point guard. Right at this moment that's Leilani.

But back on topic, I agree that Abby makes the team right now. Yes she is a tweener, but she is also a very good player. I think her limitations at the 4 are offset by what she brings, compared to the next best options.
Btw Tolo is in no way a 4.

Starting front court is still Penny, LJ & Liz. Picks itself. Leilani & Erin in the backcourt for mine.

Reply #511485 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Abby cons...

Size 6'3? Hodges was starting PF and only 6'3. 6'4 Burton beats Abby.
Running the floor? I'd say she's faster than hodges. Burton beats Abby.
Athleticism? Better than hodges. Burton beats Abby.
1 on 1 defence? Same as hodges. Pretty even.
Shooting Range? Only PF besides Jackson and Francis that can shoot 3's.
Offense? No one else performing better...
Efficientcy? Better than all other pf's in ft %, 2nd in 3pt%, 3rd in fg%.
Basketball iq/feel for the game? Abby pretty savvy compared to hodges/burton

Others vying for position of PF?
Francis (6'4 all rounder, a lock already)
Burton (1 on 1 defence and running the floor, not much else)
Tomlinson (6'4, good shot blocker, average stats)



Reply #511488 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Given how well the team played in Turkey, I'm not sure there'll be six new players ala the team above. Joyce has shown he'll pick the best 'team' not just the best 12 players.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Not sure that you can rate Nat Burton for her 1 on 1 defence after seeing Bishop make her look silly this weekend!

Reply #511543 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Nat Burton and Tessa Lavey are only in the current opals teams purely because Joyce falls in love with his players and justifies himself over and over. Last week at ADC Joyce banged on all week about his decision to take Lavey and Burton but no one bought it. After Rio Joyce is out. No way BA will renew his contract. He can't even turn up at the AIS.

As for Abby she will make the next Opals team no doubt in the world.

Reply #511595 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Burton performed better than expected on at worlds. Dont think she will be make the rio team.
Lavey did not look comfortable to me. A future opal maybe. Few young pg's coming through though.

With hodges and batkovic probably done at international level and burton, Lavey, Richards unlikely to make the team, and also some doubts over Mitchell. A possible 5 positions are up for grabs.

The consensus is:
2-3 PG spots. phillips, possibly madgen, ebzery or cole. Maybe Mitchell.
4-5 SG/SF spots. Taylor, Allen, Ohea, jarry would be favourites. Talbot, kunek and Blicavs potentially 1 of.
3 PF spots. Jackson, Francis and bishop clearly.
2 C spots. Cambage and tolo clearly. Jackson and Francis playing the 5 spot also.

Reply #511602 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Saw Cole play yesterday with that face mask. That kid is all class and has a heart bigger than a lion. Never even considered not playing yesterday. Kudos to that young champ

Reply #511607 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Energiser bunny... With a face mask.

Reply #511608 | Report this post


Anon12  
Years ago

Will BA and Joyce use the same reason as the Worlds for not selecting Bishop.

Reply #511758 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Bishop should be able to take the child with her, absolutely.

Heard that she was looking for a nanny to accompany her with the child when she goes overseas to play. Hope she gets a spot in the Wnba. Might even have an all australian front court at the Seattle storm?

Reply #511768 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"After Rio Joyce is out. No way BA will renew his contract."

You're living in fantasy land, the players absolutely love what he's doing.

Reply #511791 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Would you choose Joyce if sandy was available?

Reply #511792 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

After Turkey, absolutely.

Reply #511804 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Opals in Turkey beat;

Belarus
Cuba
Korea

In the group stage.

Beat Canada by 11 and gave the USA a great run to lose by 12 and then thumped Turkey for the bronze

Other then coming so close to the USA and beating Turkey by as much as they did, I didn't see anything that last years Bendigo Spirit with Bernie coaching couldn't have done.

Did they appear to be a tight knit group and work hard defensively although so did that Benidgo Spirit team.

You can only beat the teams put in front of you although there isn't much depth in womens hoops so it is hard to tell what sort of job was done in that tournament as there wasn't much that could go wrong.

Reply #511835 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

My answer is the same. He did an absolutely outstanding job in Turkey. I was pretty supportive of the 2012 effort when many were critical, but the team played superior ball with less talent in 2014.

Reply #511846 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

"After Rio Joyce is out. No way BA will renew his contract."

You're living in fantasy land, the players absolutely love what he's doing.

Hahaha think you might be living their with them the players do not ALL love Joyce only the select controversial few who would not be there if he didn't have a thing for them. He's just extremely lucky he has such calibre players like Taylor and Phillips to count on

Reply #511857 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

I didn't say any of them love Joyce, I said they love what he is doing. Some of the players who haven't been involved mightn't, but that's probably because they don't know what he's doing!

Simple fact is he didn't have nine players from London, including four of the starting five, yet he produced a superior team on court. Quite the opposite of being lucky to have talented players.

Reply #511870 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

The players that held that group together to get the result were Taylor, Phillips Mitchell and Tolo, who actually may not have seen as much CRT time had Cambage not been injured. His call up replacement was Francis who also did a good job for the limited time she played. His 'chosen few' of Lavey, Burton and Jarry did zip really, Jarry was more a liability than asset. Snell was really a no show.
So imagine if he had picked better more seasoned players the outcome he could have, or simply had Ohea, Jackson and Cambage, now try saying that list is not talent, it wasn't his coaching!!!

Reply #511878 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So you wouldn't put jarry in your squad anon^?
Who would you take in replace of her?
I'm personally not sold on Mitchell as backup. I would much prefer 2 of madgen, ebzery or cole. (Instead of Mitchell/Lavey)

Looks to be:
Phillips/?/?
Taylor/Allen
Ohea/?
Jackson/bishop/Francis
Cambage/tolo

2 out of Mitchell, madgen, ebzery, cole.
1 out of jarry, kunek, Talbot, Blicavs.

Outs on previous team: hodges, burton, Lavey, snell, Richards.

Reply #511889 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"So imagine if he had picked better more seasoned players the outcome he could have, or simply had Ohea, Jackson and Cambage, now try saying that list is not talent, it wasn't his coaching!!!"

Well, he didn't have Jackson, Cambage and O'Hea, nor quite a few other talented players, yet they were played outstanding basketball with a style only one opponent could cope with, and even then the USA didn't cope all that well.

Joyce had his reasons for picking the players he did, and his team produced outstanding results. There's no reason to think they would have performed better with any other of the available players.

Reply #511890 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Seriously doubt they 'wouldn't ' play better with the likes of Cambage Ohea and Jackson .

Reply #511896 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So you wouldn't put jarry in your squad anon^?
Who would you take in replace of her?
I'm personally not sold on Mitchell as backup. I would much prefer 2 of madgen, ebzery or cole. (Instead of Mitchell/Lavey)

Looks to be:
Phillips/?/?
Taylor/Allen
Ohea/?
Jackson/bishop/Francis
Cambage/tolo

2 out of Mitchell, madgen, ebzery, cole.
1 out of jarry, kunek, Talbot, Blicavs.

Outs on previous team: hodges, burton, Lavey, snell, Richards.


Sorry if your a jarry fan, but their is no way I'd put her in this team, I'd have kunek and talbot any day over jarry she makes way to many mistakes and has a poor iq on CRT not a blicavs fan either too inconsistent

I don't think Mitchell will make next cut but she was certainly better than the rest. Lavey should never have been there, but point guards are light on in the mid 20 age group

Reply #511897 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Not sure about the WCs, but paul is destroying Anonymous in this thread...

Reply #511899 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

"Seriously doubt they 'wouldn't ' play better with the likes of Cambage Ohea and Jackson ."

Can you remind me of which of those players was available?

Reply #511900 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

I didn't say they were available I said add them into the mix and that talent right their nothing to do with Joyce's coaching, your making out that this team that went to worlds is a winning combination due to Joyce's selection and coaching.
Taylor, Philips and tolo, with help from Mitchell were the biggest influences not the ones Joyce chose over other more seasons players, so imagine what that team could have done with the addition of OHea,Jackson and Cambage.
So before you crow too loud get your facts straight

Reply #511983 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

They had nothing to do with Joyce's coaching because they weren't available!!

Fact is Joyce increased the roles of many players for the first time (Philips/Tolo) and gave a role to Mitchell (first big international tournament) and Francis. All did well. And from what I heard they had a really good culture in the group.

But hey Anonymous, you've got your "facts" right....

Reply #511987 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

No one is arguing about that, your stating Joyce did all the work basically it was HIS coaching
Fact #1 he had no choice but to use those players ( Taylor Philips Mitchell)
Fact #2 the players he chose (over more seasoned players)as in burton Lavey Jarry did zip
Fact #3 Tolo only got those minutes because Cammbage was injured and Francis was only brought in because Cammbage was injured , not because Joyce wanted it that way'
Fact#4 Jen Sheen left Bec Madgen was brought in he used neither, both excellent players.
And yes they did in fact have a great culture in the team, not Joyce's doing but the players.
But hey if you want to believe all the success was purely due to Joyce's coaching go ahead, think quite a few of the players would disagree.
Look at the impact penny Taylor is now having on rangers!

Reply #511992 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Allen deserved way more minutes, could have taken jarrys starting spot,..
Also should have had Francis at pf, not hodges as primary and burton as secondary pf.

Reply #511996 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

^ agree

Reply #512011 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Joyce wanted defensive speed at each position, particularly lateral quickness, that's probably why Francis wasn't at PF. In a different style she could do it though.

Reply #512015 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Hodges quick laterally?

Francis offers much more... Phyical size + length, more rebounds, more blocks, a mid range game, an outside game. Much like Jackson... Just without the extensive international and wnba exp.

Reply #512017 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

Francis didn't fit what they needed from a PF. In a different, slower system she could offer some of the things you mentioned.

Reply #512019 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

So they needed an efficient under the basket pf, slow moving, non shooter with low block and rebound numbers playing against the likes of charles and ogwumike. And when playing descent minutes in the pool stage against inferior opponents did not produce anything significant.

Hodges at worlds
18 min avg 5.8 pts 3 rbd 0 blk around 40 fg% 66 ft% 3 pt 0% 5.3 eff

Francis at worlds
13.5 min avg 7.2 pts 4.5 rbd 1 blk around 40 fg% 80 ft% 3 pt 35% 8.5 eff

Burton at worlds
16.8 min avg 4.5 pts 5.2 rbd 0.2 blk around 40 fg% 42 ft% 3 pt 0% 6.5 eff

The best performers on paper at worlds non order.
Taylor
Tolo
Phillips
Francis
Snell
Mitchell
Burton
Jarry
Hodges
Allen
Lavey
Richards



Reply #512025 | Report this post


paul  
Years ago

That post is a good one, because it shows exactly how you've missed the point.

The key to the Opals' success was their 24-second pressure defence that forced teams out of their offence by getting up-and-in. To achieve that they needed players able to contain opponents in that situation, and players with the ability to rotate and/or recover.

The fitness staff and coaches measured this capability in both testing and game situations to ensure they could execute that defence at the world championships.

That is what sparked their transition offence and allowed a number of players to be super effective offensively. Take away the defence and the offence would not have worked nearly as well with the amount of offensive talent that was unavailable.

Quoting stats shows a lack of awareness of the team components that made the team successful, not just on the defensive end but things like making early post targets or setting early on-balls before their defenders were set.

For every time a player like Taylor or Phillips has a big game, there are teammates doing little things that enable it to happen. That's why picking a national team isn't necessarily about just selecting the 12 most talented players.

Joyce understood that and produced a 5-1 record with a 30-point average winning margin despite missing nine 2012 Olympians including four of the starting five.

Reply #512027 | Report this post


Dunkin' Dan  
Years ago

Game, set, and match.

Reply #512044 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Anonymous, you should quit while you're behind. Waaaaay behind.
paul, please take it easy on them!!

Reply #512064 | Report this post


Anonymous  
Years ago

Depends on which anonymous your referring to

Reply #512327 | Report this post




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