Anonymous
Years ago

Brad Stevens -Good or bad for the celtics?

While Mike Budenholzer or Steve Kerr would be deserving winners of coach of the year, who has done more with less? Even though the east is terrible the celtics are the 7th seed with basically players that wouldn't probably make anyone else's playoff roster apart from Thomas and Bradley.
So my question is would the celtics rather be the 7th seed or have a good chance at a top 3 pick, which Ainge would have been planning for? They might pick up a good free agent but it looks like the way to build a contender is through the draft and I'm predicting this year's will be great. Are the Lakers or Knicks in a better position in 2 years time with a potential franchise player?
Can a coach be sacked for being too good?

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Haz  
Years ago

Still have to show some pride and the Celtics have plenty of that so they wouldn't want to look too pathetic even if finishing 7th does nothing for them in the long run.

They may have ideally wanted to tank, but making the playoffs in a year when they shouldn't have is also an achievement - I guess with the East being so bad, it can probably be hard to tank in that conference. Though the Knicks are doing a good job of it :)

After dealing Rondo, they probably have decent cap space to make a run at some free agents wouldn't they?

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Anonymous  
Years ago

It's a valid question and the Celtics might wish they'd had a few more pieces in place before Stevens came along. But he's making a mark as a coach who both develops players and uses them well, and combined with the high quality of the Celtics front office, they have to be one of the more appealing free agent destinations. They also have a reasonable collection of assets to work a trade, and seem to have done a good job picking up Thomas that way.

I think I'd rather have a coach that's definitely as good as Brad Stevens today, than a player that might be as good as Greg Monroe (Okafor) in a couple of years.

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Mick  
Years ago

Tanking doesn't work, so considering he is one of the top basketball minds in the league, it's a good thing.

The only time tanking works is when you have a core intact and need a piece in a down/injury year (maybe miami this year or spurs when they drafted duncan), or when you luck into multiple generational talents (OKC).

Watch how quickly Philadelphia recover and build around their young core compared to Milwaukee who refused to tank.

When you teach players it's ok to lose, it's hard to un-teach them, and guys don't develop on lottery teams. They develop on fringe playoff teams where games and big moments actually matter.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

The point I raise is that you need a Mvp or a Mvp caliber player to win a championship to a main extent. For over the last 30 years nearly every champ has had a player that won the Mvp. The only ones have been the pistons that were special in terms of defence and they had clutch performers both in 04 and 89/90. The only other asterisk could be the Spurs with Duncan not dominating statistically recently but their system is unbelievable.

2014 - San Antonio - Duncan
2013 - Miami Heat - Lebron
2012 - Miami Heat - Lebron
2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk
2010 - Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe
2009 - Los Angeles Lakers - Kobe
2008 - Boston Celtics - Garnett/Pierce/Ray
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - Duncan
2006 - Miami Heat - Shaq/Wade
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - Billups/Hamilton/Wallaces
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Duncan
2002 - Los Angeles Lakers - Shaq/Kobe
2001 - Los Angeles Lakers - Shaq/Kobe
2000 - Los Angeles Lakers - Shaq/Kobe
1999 - San Antonio Spurs - Duncan/Robinson
1998 - Chicago Bulls -Jordan
1997 - Chicago Bulls -Jordan
1996 - Chicago Bulls -Jordan
1995 - Houston Rockets - The dream
1994 - Houston Rockets - The dream
1993 - Chicago Bulls - Jordan
1992 - Chicago Bulls - Jordan
1991 - Chicago Bulls - Jordan
1990 - Detroit Pistons - Isiah/Dumars
1989 - Detroit Pistons - Isiah/Dumars
1988 - Los Angeles Lakers - Magic/Kareem
1987 - Los Angeles Lakers -Magic/Kareem
1986 - Boston Celtics - Bird
1985 - Los Angeles Lakers - Magic/Kareem
1984 - Boston Celtics - Bird

Based on that whilst tanking doesn't guarantee a title you need to be able to draft a Mvp then build around them. Thus Boston if they stay on the playoff bubble will never win a title until they get awfully lucky in the lottery. So the celtics have to stash Stevens overseas for a couple of years, hire DiAntoni, draft Ben Simmons then bring Brad back and presto, you got a title contender.

Ps Sorry Hawks fans

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Cs still have Brooklyns first rounder for the next three years (swap in 17), Dallas first rounder next year, Memphis first in 19 + all there own + a bunch of seconds.

Pretty good chance there to either get a lottery pick, Brooklyn, maybe Memphis in 19 or a steal somewhere along the way.

I would rather have a good coach , good system and a winning organisation than say what philly is doing. Embiid , Saric have not even played an NBA game yet. i dont think it will be as easy for Philly to build through tanking as people think.


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PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

Virtually every player in the NBA can contribute on a great team, but it's a matter of finding the 'right' players and putting them into a position to succeed. This means that innovative, brilliant coaching and front office staff are requisites to piecing together contenders.

The Spurs have that with Buford and Popovich. The Hawks have that with Ferry (sans 2015) and Budenholzer. Even the Mavericks have it with - the passion, deep pockets and surprising knowledge of - Mark Cuban and Rick Carlisle.

Boston has it with Ainge and Stevens.

The Celtics have a total of 9 (yes, NINE!) first round draft picks and 8 second round draft picks over the next TWO seasons. In 2017 and 2018 they also have an additional 4 first rounders and 4 second rounders.
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4716912/bostons-pile-of-draft-picks

Even if they don't keep their picks (which obviously they won't), these are incredibly valuable and can leverage them in trades e.g. Clevelands 2016 1st rounder (likely to be #25-30) to bring in Isaiah Thomas this season.

Ainge is rebuilding in a very different, and very intelligent manner. As history has shown and Mick has pointed out: tanking doesn't work because talent and *shudders* "potential" doesn't equate to winning.

Stevens is honing his craft and building a sustainable culture of winning in Boston by developing and getting the most out of his players night-in, night-out. They don't need to lose to get better.

Time will tell, but from outward appearances...
Verdict: good for the Celtics.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I agree you need a MVP calibre player to win the title, but you do not need to draft them.

You can sign them as a free agent, not easy, but not impossible. Heat did it with LeBron, Celtics did it with Garnett, Lakers did it with Shaq.

If im the Celtics im keeping on the path they are going and see if you can sign a MVP type in free agency at some point, i dont think that player is available this off season though, assuming they have a bit of cap space or willing to move a few peices to create it if need be, which i say it would be.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Even though Boston have the history they don't seem to hold the same attraction as LA or now Miami. Ainge pulled off some huge deals in getting Garnett and Allen, but Garnetts was more a deal from the T wolves to thank him and Seattle were in outright building/tanking mode.
And unless they can package all those 1s and 2s into higher picks all you are really doing is drafting either players with question marks or solid role players. I don't think they need more Zellers, Sullingers, Olyncyks(?) or Youngs and especially if Smart turns out to be just a solid pro after being such a high pick.
The 76ers main problem is getting their picks onto the court, injury prone big men are a huge red flag. If they had gotten Wiggins to go with Noel and got Okafur this year, that's scary in a couple of years. But if Embiid recovers and their pick this year is decent they overtake the celtics in my opinion.
But if somehow Okc thinks Westbrook is the main man and trade Durant for everything the celtics have, well, stranger things have happened.

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PlaymakerMo  
Years ago

Actually the Celtics traded for Garnett:

"On July 31, 2007, Garnett was traded to the Boston Celtics in exchange for Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, cash considerations, Boston's 2009 first-round draft pick (top 3 protected), and the 2009 first-round pick which Minnesota had traded to Boston in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak trade of 2006."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Garnett

Similarly, LeBron was signed and traded to the HEAT, which is a more complicated process now because of player movement from guys like LeBron, Bosh and Melo.

But nonetheless you make a good point.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I think Danny would rather the pick but Brad is just too good of a coach. Also the silver lining is all the Nets picks we have in the next 3 years. We have to hit somewhere in that period to get good value.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

What Brad Stevens has done is a good thing without a doubt. The whole idea of chasing picks to get that "franchise" guy, lose games and lose your supporter base to too much of a high risk.

If the celtics tanked this year, they probably would have been the 5th best at it (Philly, Minnesotta, New York and Lakers would of sucked more). In the last 10 years, of the top 5 picks in the draft, ZERO have won a championship. You have to go back to 2003 when LeBron, Bosh and Wade were drafted to get a top 5 guy to win it all. Sure in that time teams have got Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, etc but teams have also taken Hakim Thabeet (#2), Anthony Bennett (#1), Greg Oden (#1) Alex Len (#5), Thomas Robinson (#5), Adam Morrison (#3), etc. So getting a top 5 or 6 pick doesn't guarantee success.

In the last 10 years of the draft championship contributors such as Kawhi Leonard (#15), Rajon Rondo (#21), Danny Green (#45), Tiago Splitter (#28) have helped their team considerably more. Then you can get diamonds in the rough like Rudy Gobert (#27), Greek Freak (#15), Jimmy Butler (#30), Chandler Parsons (#38), Marc Gasol (#48), Jeff Teague (#19), DeAndre Jordan (#35), Serge Ibaka (#24), Nicholas Batum (#25) and a lot more that I can't be bothered typing.

Seeing as getting a top pick doesn't matter, wouldn't it matter more if a team could attract top free agents this summer. If you are LaMarcus Alridge would you rather play for a team like Philly who aim to lose or for a coach like Stevens who can win with average players. I think having a coach who can win becomes a main draw card for Free agents, plus being in the east which is easy, plus the celtics being a historic franchise. Kevin Love will probably look at them, probably Greg Monroe, Goran Dragic, etc.

Additionally, the crazy thing about Boston is that Gerald Wallace is the highest paid player. If Danny Ainge can work wonders this summer it would be to trade Wallace's ($10m) next year (or amnesty it), trade Brandon Bass's $6m and to dump those contracts he may have to give up some pieces but then I hope he goes really hard after LaMarcus Alridge, DeAndre Jordan and a wing say Danny Green.

A team that looks like this under Brad Stevens would be so much better than having pick 5 in this draft which may be Kristas Porzingas or Justice Winslow.

G - Marcus Smart / Thomas / Pressey
G - Danny Green / Bradley / Young
F - Evan Turner / Crowder / Datome
F - LaMarcus Alridge / Sullinger / Jeberko
C - DeAndre Jordan / Zeller / draft pick

Dump or trade out Wallace, Bass, Olynck, one of your first round picks this year (maybe keep the Clippers pick that they have).

That team in the East with Stevens would contend for a championship. To me it looks like a better defensive team than the Atlanta Hawks. The only other thing you may do it try and get a defensive SF instead of Datome who can guard LeBron.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

^ This is kind of right. My god it's long-winded, but if you were Boston and you'd tanked your way to the lottery and lucked into the #3 pick this year, what are you going to do? Draft Emmanuel Mudiay, to play arguably their position of least need? Draft Okafor, who might be a slight upgrade on Sullinger in a few years? D'Angelo Russell is as high on draft boards as he is because teams think he can play the point, so same problem as Mudiay. There's no one in this draft who you look at and think 'yeah, he's going to be the best player on a Championship team one day.' A few for whom it's possible, but it's a crapshoot and no guarantee there's even a prize to be had.

I think the proposed free agency signings are a bit crazy and I'm not sure that any team that starts Evan Turner is going to be a defensive juggernaut.

But Stevens/Ainge over the #3 pick in this draft any day.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

3 gives you more options though. Celtics really need a shot blocker so they could go after one of the two big's or trade the pick and try and get an established big. I just like the idea of giving yourself more options. That said there is something to the fact that you give your young team and coach the experience of playoffs.

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mystro  
Years ago

"Even though Boston have the history they don't seem to hold the same attraction as LA or now Miami."

Have you ever experienced a New England winter?
The snow blizzards and freezing cold aren't that inviting compared to California and Miami's mild winter weather.

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Beantown  
Years ago

I was originally hoping to get a shot at Okafor or Towns, but its better to have a really good coach in place I think. In any case, it probably won't matter too much because Brooklyn will be doing our tanking for us in the next few years!

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Anonymous  
Years ago

I think Okafur will be the next dominant big man. It's a big call but a poor man's Tim Duncan at the worst. Good fundamentals, excellent size and good attitude. Which will make it interesting if he slips to Philadelphia, has there ever been triple towers?
As to the above starting lineup of Smart, Green, Turner, Aldridge and Jordan, that team would struggle to score 50 points. Green can shoot and Aldridge can score some, but will be double teamed all night coz the other 3 are terrible on offense.
Give Stevens a mickey mouse title like vice president of basketball operations then do a Pat Riley and comeback to the sidelines when the team has talent.

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Anonymous  
Years ago

Have you ever seen Okafor play defence? Closer to Greg Monroe than Tim Duncan.

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