According to who?

According to an email sent to coaches!

What i like about this thread is that it will be limited entirely to a discussion about the merits of this club being in/not in Youth league and there is absolutely no way it will spill over into some sort of harangue about the FDBA.

I know nothing about this at all, save for what is written above, however I can't believe that an Association would kill its Youth League program if it had no other choice to do so.

There must be more to this than meets the eye, Youth League IMHO is the most important level of development and a crucial pathway for any Vic based Association...

I only hope this is a very short term solution to whatever problem it is proposed to solve!

Interesting anon^, if that is the case will they be allowed to re-enter at championship level or will they have to work their way up from D2?

Will they be the only SEABL club without Youth league teams?

The U/20 comp isn't great, so where will there kids go that have a desire to play higher???

Strange decision IMO

Correct me if I'm wrong but its about 50,000 to 60,000 to run youth league teams. Seems like a waste of money if its not producing SEABL players. The question should be is youth league a viable pathway or is it delaying the inevitable, that they are not good enough. This idea that we have to have a place for these under 23's to play is ridiculous. If you haven't made it on a SEABL roster by 20 as a female and 21 as a male you probably wont. Maybe if other clubs follow suit then the U20 comp will actually flourish and talent will then spread throughout SEABL and Big V.

ICYMI. I am correcting you.

WOW!! What a disappointing result.

ICYMI, I could not disagree with you any more on every point you have made. $50-60k is a ridiculous statement. The figures Anon 881 suggests are pretty close to the mark and no YL player is getting paid, add coaches salary (3-4k) and uniforms and your closer to 10k. Also your comment about not making a SEABL roster by 20-21 isn't relevant, many 20-21 year olds sit on SEABL benches and if it weren't for YL wouldn't get the opportunity to develop with much needed game time. YL is also used to develop Big V Div 1 & Champ teams and for the same reasons clubs need this link to ensure young players get a chance to play the game rather than ride a senior bench. If done right clubs should be developing older players that don't make Senior teams into coaches,administrators, etc.

Rant over

The cost in NSW to run a Youth League team is approx. $10k.
Players pay a levey of approx. $450.00 the same as our juniors and the Association bears the rest.
Nomination fee is around $2500 and then there is court hire,referees payments and next year stats will be compulsory so you have score bench and stats to pay as well.
Our Association loses approx. $5k on a youth league program and three times that amount for a Waratah Championship team.
Youth League is a definite pathway to seniors because some of the players are only 18 years old and they or their parents do not want them playing against MEN at lot older which is fair enough in some circumstances.
But overall the cost of running programs without sponsorship and the cost BNSW keep adding in sometimes makes you wonder is it worth it because in the end either the players have to pay a lot more or the Association just keep losing money that their members are contributing and then next minute the association is in financial problems.

Alright so let's figure it out. So you say 4900 a team. So x 2 = 9,800
Now we need a figure for court hire for a season training/games anyone have that?
Then we need game day totals... Refs, bench, live stats, etc..
No sarcasm I honestly would like to know.

#544900

ICYMI did say to correct them if they were wrong, does not mean they have no clue.

Good questions ICYMI.

Along with the fees above:

- no refs payments in Vic, its included in the league fee
- scoretable/stats staff maybe $125 per home game, offset normally/partially by door takings
- training hire, in some clubs this would be a real cost at others would be absorbed into their overall venue deal
- supper cost, unless the parents do it
- generally players would either pay a fee or get a sponsor

Outcome, you might OUTLAY 20k to run a Youth league program (both mens and womens) but you would offset some of that against door takings, small sponsorships and player contributions. My guess, you are out of pocket maybe 10k a year.

This will fluctuate, largely depending on what the coach is paid and if you have a real cost for training venue hire.

Thanks to the Anon for posting the team entry fees.

So doing some homework 40,000 all up. I apologize for the absorbative amount of 50-60K originally stated... That was sarcasm. And I welcome any examples of players on youth league teams above the age of 20 for women non WNBL club and 22 for men who are developing and will be big impact players on the SEABL level that are not going to college or are already in SEABL..

40k includes court hire it will be significantly less if you have your own facility which most do.

Let's take the costs out of it, what about the kids who won't have a team next year?

At what age do they stop being Kids? we are talking about 21 year olds not 14's or 16's.

Personally know kids at 16 or 17 coming out of under 18's that are far too good to play 20's and are well suited to the Youth League competition where they play for one or two season before heading over to US College.

You don't crash a well run and important comp. such as Youth league to bolster a stagnant 20's competition that is there to serve its own purpose!

Youth League is the best Victorian Basketball pathway, no question, and I can testify to that any way you like...

Positive Word!

There...

Agree with your comments Bear

Talented kids coming out of U/18s are looking to play against their peers in Championship Youth League, not a Mickey Mouse U/20's comp.

You don't need to argue that^, it is irrelevant because they serve their own purpose, there is nothing to compare here...

Poster #544933 may be a bit negative, but he/she has a point. I have seen a number of the div 2 and Div 1 YL games and even the SCYL teams who have players that will never go on and play a genuine level of either SCM, SEABL or even D1 Men's.

Surely a SCM division and a Div 1 level of YL is more than enough.

Okay, that's a different conversation though...

"Poster #544933 may be a bit negative, but he/she has a point. I have seen a number of the div 2 and Div 1 YL games and even the SCYL teams who have players that will never go on and play a genuine level of either SCM, SEABL or even D1 Men's."

Sorry, silly comment.

This is a truism of all levels of competition in any sport.

In another thread today someone is heralding the U18 VJBL comp A bunch of those players are never going to play a genuine level of those comps either.

One of the simple reasons is pure mathematics - in that open level competitions have a number of players who play for a decade or more, there are always a limited number of spots for the graduating junior or YL player.

These competitions as Bear says are part (emphasis part) of the pathway. He makes an interesting comment on the College thing as well. Lots of players go from YL to College.

Agree, it would be funny if the OP has misread the intent of the email, like that ever happens?

All because they refused to pay a fine for breaking league rules, rules which existed when they chose to enter the competition.
Seems such an odd decision and you can see why existing YL kids will all look elsewhere now. There seems to be a lot of Frankston posts lately. Certainly keeping themselves in the news.

Disappointing to read all this. I have for many years complained about lack of playing opportunities in basketball past the U18/U20 level. Where do these kids go? Having kids who have come though playing VC level in the VJBL and Aussie Rules I know the difference between the sports as far as the expected commitment is concerned.

Basketball, by a LOOOOOOOONG way, requires & demands the biggest commitment, even when compared to TAC CUP. Then once these kids get to U20's it's effectively all over. For most it's like going cold turkey. They're relegated to Monday night men's comps, with sub standard reffing, crap uniforms, no spectators, sometimes forfeits, maybe 4 a side, etc.

As a comparison how many Aussie Rules clubs are there? In my area, there are 5 senior football clubs and only one basketball association. The basketball association has a Senior Mens & Womens Teams and YL teams. So that's 90 spots (15 on each team) for both Men & Women.

The five football clubs would have say 25 players per team, each club would have between 2 to 4 teams. Worst case 250 spots (2x25x5), best case 500 spots (4x25x5). And that is just for men!

Until Basketball fixes this inequity, then they will continue to have problems.

The bigger picture, and I think Bear alludes to it in this and some of his other posts, is what is the benefit to the community by having active people playing sport, the health & mental benefits, a sense of worth, etc.

They're not all going to play senior Mens or Womens, we know that, but what is the benefit to the individual and the community by allowing them to play. For most of these kids, take away their basketball and then it's easier for them to get into the partying/drinking/drug taking culture. If they do that after 22/23, so be it, but give them a positive pursuit until they're through their risk taking years.

alright so in the past 5 months this has been the posts about Frankston..

They have no money
Their Facilities are not up to par
They have not spent any money on the men's SEABL
They cant pay their youth league fines
they are letting go of staff
They couldn't get funding to upgrade facilities
It's going down hill

Seems to me restructuring and cutting the budget seems like a practical thing to do in this situation so you don't end up in debt, insolvent or having no senior team at all see..knox.

what if the youth league thing is temporary to save money in the short term. Is that not a smart thing to do.. or should they do away with SEABL?

as unpopular as it may be it's practical under the conclusions you draw about the club from these forums

Sad if true, I mean in the long run I really don't see the benifit for the club here at all???

It's a good decision. Anybody good after 18 years of age and can D league. No point having under 20's team full of young adults who won't make it to SEABL or the D League team.

Sorry I missed the point. Getting rid of the D league is madness.

Has to be about $$$$$$$$$$. Now i know why when i asked one of assistant coaches last week about their intentions for next season they were coy. We'll see what happens was their reply! Hmmmmmm.

Why should the under 18's be given dispensation to move? Frankston are still entering VJBL aren't they?

Maybe they are leaving because there is no Youth League pathway available at Frankston any more???

SF6, same question - the loss of a YL pathway would be no reason for the VJBL to dispense with its rules for those players choosing to leave.

Sure, not arguing the pathway being removed is good, just trying to work out why #545478 thinks the VJBL should be leaned on to upend their rules as a result?

Only 18's who could be affected would be those who want to play 18's and youth league in one season, otherwise those turning of age won't be affected.

Even if there are a couple who would fit this category, I couldn't foresee any issue where the VJBL ruling will be a hurdle for those who want to move on.

Sad news just keeps coming in from Frankston, hope it is sorted out and the heartache is worth it??