If the coach is Trevor Lee again that does not surprise me. He coached me a couple of years ago. He is hands down the worst coach and an even worse person.

Is cot cut a new saying? Or did you misspell got twice?

this has been going on for years.... Not checks, No balances!

Key part you stated Anon1 is that they were from small clubs. Very rare for a player, regardless of how good they are or how well they go, from a small club to get past the first few rounds. Only goes to encourage these kids to move to the bigger clubs so they can get somewhere.

Hell, most of the clubs are from bigger clubs and they protect their own.

Won't change unfortunately...

By the way, the coach is Trevor Lee...

SMH on what basis do you think your judgment is better than the state coach. Just because someone you liked got cut does not mean there is a sinister reason like politics that is the cause. Maybe the kid was not as good as you think.

While this is a harsh reality, players from smaller clubs have not always played in pressure situations like VC finals or Classic finals. There have been many players found out under this pressure. Players from larger clubs have possibly had more opportunity playing under tournament/big game pressure and may add to the reason they are selected to play under similar pressure at Nationals.

Why have tryouts when the team is pretty much selected. And to the above poster. If a player is playing well in tryout situations against players who are from bigger clubs why wouldn't they play well in game and pressure situations. That deserves a "Common man".

Surely the coach and selectors want to pick the best team possible to help them win by as much as possible? If that player was so much better than anyone else they would have been selected. Of course you also need to look at what position they play as well. Clearly you don't want 5 point guards just because they are the best 5 players there! Why would the coach jeopardise his own success just because he didn't want to pick someone from a smaller club. The coach needs to win to ensure his position in the state programme. Pretty sure that at least one other player from the same club made it through to the next round so I don't think he was cut just because he is from a smaller club!. I believe that the player concerned has had plenty of other opportunities already?

How do some of these clowns get to be a state coach?

Answer the system is broken due to club politics being entwined on every BV board, all looking after their own.

Look deeper into the people who appoint them, not a decent basketball brain among them. The losers are the kids with the talent to make a state team who continually get overlooked.

"No coach is going to leave out a player that will make the team better, politics or not. I've got no idea who the player or players are you are referring to, but I'm sure there is a reason other than "politics". Have you considered asking the staff as an impartial observer? Or trying to get involved yourself to experience what it's like? By the time U20's come around, the players have a fairly good body of work to be assessed on."

Haha. You obviously have t been around Vic metro for very long.......keep be,Irving that if you like but unfortunately it's far from true

Unfortunately in Victoria they don't need to pick the best team in order to win, thats the way it is an the way it always will be

#500

From the U18's in 2013 - Akintola is also unavailable as he is also at College in the US.

Reply #551535
re: Politics in State Teams
How did this all of a sudden become about the girl's?



See the heading...........nothing States politics only apply to boys........and last time I looked the girls played basketball in state teams too.

Wherung has been out of un20 s for two yrs, Sherf and Burton also too old, Magebor I think is too young, for un20s

watto24 and OP posting from the same IP. Axe to grind, eh?

Wehrung is dec 95 born which makes her 20 at the end of next year...
How is that too old?
Scherf and burton are 96 I believe which would make them 19 next year.
Magbegor born in 99. can't make squads if you are too young? Huh..? Didn't she just play u19 worlds...

I just watched s.heal play warm up wnbl games lol...


It's not their age it's the year they are born which gives the eligibility, which mean next years un20 need to be born in either 97 or 98,
Sooooooo that make Wherung, Scherf and Burton all too old and Magbegor still eligible for un18s.
Yes she played UN19 at worlds, as a bottom bottom age, but that still does not allow her to play UN20s at state level.
You obviously no Jack all about the system .lol
And yes Shyla Heal will be playing WNBL her dads coaching ( answers all the questions as to why but then most knew his reasons for taking on WNBL)

And Wherung will be 21 at the end of 2016, she's 20 THIS year

As far as I am aware, last year team members:

Owies
Wilson
Vasiljevic
White
Peatling
Perry

And the emergencies:

Lamonato
D'Agostino
Bines
Karabatsos

are all returning. With the guard positions heavily congested, taking a spot from the top three would be very, very difficult, not simply because of their skill base, but just the experience. Not sure what the OP was about, either Blackburn or McKinnon kid, but I thought the Blackburn kid had a chance to get in as a backup shooter due to absence of Cornelissen, well I thought wrong.

I think Trevor is looking for a backup 5 and those that can play 3-4.

So, Alpha where is the size after Perry, who do you think may be a back up 5 to jock?

Future posts judging a clearly under-age player will bring bans to those posting.

OP can we have a "please explain".

@Bear, heard Tim Molloy-Leigh may join the squad.

To the OP, you obviously frequent this site. So I am sure you would have to know that there is politics in State Team selections. There's been numerous posts along the same themes.

I think we all know that.

Along with the politics, there is also Coaches preference/s.

Coaches, as all people do, have opinions on players. Doesn't mean to say if a player doesn't get picked that they can't play or wouldn't be worthy, but it is the elite level and it is tough at the pointy end.

For me, as I have an opinion as well, the coaches get decisions wrong almost every year.

But they are charged with the job to win and they try and select a team that is going to win. They can't pick 10 PG's or 10 Centres, they need a balanced side. That is the challenge and that is where the heartache starts. All Vic Metro teams are tough to make, especially the U20's, when the Metro & Country get combined.

Just remember this - State Team selection is not the be all and end all. There are plenty of opportunities out there. USA High School or PREP school, then USA College - D1, D2, D3 or even JUCO.

Then there's Big V Men's, Youth League, SEABL & NBL Development player.

Example - Look at Kyle Adnam from Kilsyth, I don't think he ever made a State Junior Team, but he has now been a development player at two NBL Franchises.

USA College Basketball is littered with Aussie kids that never made State teams or only made one or two.

Do your research and you will find this to be the norm.

If it is the Blackburn kid then I think he was stiff to get cut. IMO he may have made the team as Cornelissen is at College in Hawaii, so that has opened up a SG spot, or he would have made a very capable emergency.

Final bit of advice - Continue to work hard and find a coach that believes in you.

A lot of the angst in this subject would be taken out of it if the VJBL appointed independent coaches instead of coaches with affiliations with clubs.

I know of three boys who went into NITP and State teams, and were all approached during their time there to go to other clubs. Disappointingly two got sucked in by the propaganda,and left at the completion of the season while one stayed true.

I know this because all three boys told me this happened. I know of one who this has happened to this 2015 season.

One of those boys is now in his mid 20's and told me how not one but two coaches from the same bigger club (who were also involved in both NITP and State teams) came knocking on his door. He was told move clubs or he would never be selected in a State squad.

He now considers it one of the worst decisions he made as he hated that bigger club and wish he never moved.

I have no doubt that this nonsense still goes on behind the scenes and will continue to go on while coaches who are appointed to State teams are also affiliated with club programs.

BV and VJBL have the resources and people for this not to happen. Until it gets resolved what should be the most elite programs in the state will continue to remain tainted and posts such as this will continue to appear.

Unfortunately I don't see the status quo changing anytime soon.

Thanks Alpha, that would give Victoria a bit of a size advantage I would think...

#551702

What does the VJBL have to do with it? (not being a smart arse, just don't get their role)

RH let it go. The kid will survive and you are only embarrassing yourself.

None of my kids were ever that good, but from what I have "observed" it could be that this is worse in BBL because of what's at stake.

If your kid is good enough at AFL, there are plenty of opportunities. If you're in Victoria, and he's anywhere near good enough for AFL, he'll make a TAC Cup team and get to show his skills. In WA, he'll make a WAFL Colts team.

Problem is that in BBL you've got so many parents who have decided little Johnny will be the next Bogut, and start aiming for that all-important College scholarship. Representative teams are seen as an important step, they join the right clubs, they become officials, delegates, etc, they network, and the pressure they exert is intolerable.

^ happens in the AFL world as well. A lot (not all) of former players both basketball and football get involved trying to seek preferential treatment. Also, a 'Son of' will get a lot more opportunity, same as a tall kid does.

Parents in sport is difficult and I've seen some amazing, disgraceful & horrible things during my kids time through their junior years.

AFL pathways get it wrong as well, kids not considered good enough to make the grade get cut or don't make TAC squads, but then get drafted out of School Comps. Sam Mitchell from Hawthorn, was not considered good enough, had to ply his trade in the VFL before given the opportunity.

There are diamonds in the rough out there. Don't be disheartened, life and sport is full of setbacks. It's how you cope that matters. As I said above, keep working hard and find a coach that believes in you and hopefully you'll get to the level that is right for you.

To the OP. All these kids have played basketball for some time now and they are no doubt well known to people and coaches in the Victorian Basketball fraternity.

So I think you'd be naive to think that coaches don't or shouldn't already have some pre-conceived ideas as to players abilities.


It's also about where they fit into the team. Unfortunately this age group has been very strong at the Nationals, they've won every year group at the top age and Akintola, Perry, Wilson & DJ have won at bottom age 18 & last year at bottom age 20 along with Owies & White. The above kids 'body of work' is well known. They've done as good as they can. They've won everything on offer.

So, IMO, the real observations that need to be made at tryouts are:

1. Are there any other kids out there that have gone past any of these kids? What level of basketball have they been playing to be considered to have gone past any of these kids? Perry, White, Wilson, DJ, Owies, Peatling are all playing SEABL. What other kid trying out is playing at that level or Big V Champ Men's and 'PERFORMING'?
2. I believe the top 6 in Alpha's list pick themselves, subject to illness & injury. I don't believe Perry is a certainty to play, he's recovering from a knee injury.
3. So that leaves 4 spots, who do they pick? What positions are they looking to fill. IMO a 5, a 4, a 3 and a 2.

So, for me, there are not many spots available.

Unfortunately that's how it is?

If your not looked at by u16s it becomes very hard.

I know a kid who didn't even try out for the Vic under 20's last year but would have been easily good enough for that team or this one but he is now at a US college and doing extremely well. Missing out for this team means zero to your kid's future in basketball, it is just nice to look back on and a great experience for those few selected.

Almost no US college coaches take any notice of this tournament or will have a clue about previous junior State or National representation of our kids, they want to know how are you playing at the time they are recruiting and can you help their team or develop to a point where you will fit the team's needs.

US college coaches also want kids who are decent people and good students, they want level heads and kids who won't quit when things get tough or when a kid feels home sick after three weeks. Yes, they want talent on the court, but equally as important is the quality of the kid, his/her integrity, personality and attitude.

Not making this team and going back to work hard and maybe play well in Youth League or your highest possible level, getting yourself to play consistently and staying true to yourself, not showing resentfulness or disdain every time you don't quite make a team will go a long way to revealing your true character and building your self confidence and self esteem.

It hurts, initially, but I have found kids will bounce back really quickly and with positive feedback and the right attitude from a parent with the support of a close and experienced coach, missing out on something like this is really just a small hump on the big journey, it isn't the end of anything, it is the start of everything if you want it to be...

Mike, I disagree. Your comment is a generalization.

Perhaps you should talk to Peatling & his father. He made a State team last year (U20 bottom age) for the first time and I expect him to make it this year and have a good National Championship.

In this particular age group the U16 team in Tamworth (2012) was.

Perry
Lamonato
Elordi
Akintola
Allsion
Wilson
Vasilejevic
Balic
Owies
Karabatsos

Of the above players 3 - 5 won't be in this year's U20 team for various reasons, Injury, College, etc.

Last year's U20 team, there was only one player McKay who was in the U16 Metro team in 2011.

So for me it is not over if you don't make an U16 team. Continue to work hard. These ar just two year groups I've picked, there are the same findings in each age group.

Cheers anon #080, that's correct and good news for the girl hope she takes the opportunity. I did however say 'almost no US coaches...'

There is always an exception and if you send them videos of course there is a chance they will take some notice, I take that on board, it wasn't meant to be an exclusive comment.

My point was more about the fact that not many US coaches are aware of the standard of our State or National juniors unless they have been contacted.

They won't know what standard Nationals is unless they are presented with some evidence because most of them only see local US kids playing, especially at their thousands of High Schools.

They don't appear to go out of their way to view Nationals in Australia to scout our kids without some prior connect, that's my experience.

It is just a numbers game and distance of course, something we can cover using the internet now, such as I am sure you have done to good effect...

Bear, I think you're way off the mark with your comments in your 2nd paragraph.

The Australian National Championships are watched closely by a number of US Colleges. My own son was talent ID'd when he played in the U16 Nationals and several Colleges have watched his progress closely after that to see if he was developing, including VJBL Finals.

When I say watch, that might only be via video footage as the only Champs their coaches can attend in person are the U16's due to NCAA rules.

A lot of Colleges have got good networks out here to talent ID kids and they all manage to get their hands on video footage of National Championships. There are also a lot of Australians that are part of College Basketball Coaching Rosters, whether as Associate Head Coach, Assistant Coach, or Director of Basketball Operations, etc. So a lot of US Colleges know what goes on down here and who the good players are. Some US College coaches have even coached out here.

For some Colleges the U20's is the most important National Championship as generally, most of the Top age kids that are good enough will head to College after that and it is probably the last chance to see them in action before they Verbally Commit or sign a NLI. Same goes for most of the QLD or WA bottom age players as they generally start school early, so they would look to go to College after their Bottom Age U20 Nationals (i.e. Froling, McDowell-White, Fullarton, etc). Unfortunately, for this reason, US College was not an option for Rhys Vague from WA.

I know they even value VJBL Championship Division and the VJBL Finals, especially the U16 & U18 GF's.

A lot of US Colleges also watch the FIBA World Championships, looking for future international prospects.

Anons^, I am not saying there is not an interest at all or that our Nationals is being ignored by all US college coaches. If you care to read what I am trying to say in context I am in essence agreeing with you.

What I am trying to point out is exactly your points, that our Nationals is not the be all and end all, yes everything you can achieve at a high level helps, but there are difficulties associated with kids leaving it to chance to be noticed and not promoting themselves to these coaches overseas if that is where they want to go.

Again, I will try to be clear:

US College coaches will be much more likely to watch local talent at US High Schools rather than fly to Australia to watch our Nationals.

It is obviously more convenient and their media machine is 1,000 times more competent than ours when it comes to hoops. Simple fact!

If we don't connect with them, rather leave it to chance that somehow they will see a kid playing at our Nationals it is far more likely they will not be aware of most kids.

When have you heard of Nationals here streaming or being covered by a TV channel that broadcasts to the US for their college coaches to be able to scout our kids like the media attention they get over there?

Now, that does not say that for some US College systems they won't commit valued resources towards our Nationals, of course there are some that are very keen and will even send an assistant over or have scouts here report back to them.

We know of some, like St Mary's that have close connections to Australia, but there are thousands of colleges and only one St Mary's, we can't hope all our kids get picked up by the Gaels.

That is my point, we are a long way away, they won't know of our kids unless there is a connect.

If that is more pronounced and overtly evident among some US colleges, then it is noticeable and we all mention it on forums and alike, but it isn't the norm it is an exception.

I am suggesting the effort needs to be made at this end, don't only rely on your kid being discovered just because he/she played at Australian Nationals, you may be waiting for some time...

Anyway, starting to drift slightly off topic now. I am a supporter of our Nationals, perceptions of politics at play have been around for eons.

Reality is that each team only has 10-12 spots at this level, good luck to those who are selected, but don't get too down on yourself if you miss out, that's the message...